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Respect for the religious + religion - where does it start/stop?

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24567…31

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    #32
    JaseBelleVie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 936 ✭✭✭JaseBelleVie


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Frankly saying that would be being a dick. Don't go into the church. Nobody has a gun to your head and you're going to have to be able to stand by your own convictions. If you don't want to go; then don't. Simples. No need for such immature oafish theatrics.

    I was only joking... :o


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    #33
    JaseBelleVie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 936 ✭✭✭JaseBelleVie


    Bandana boy wrote: »
    Why would you be so disrespectful to something your family obviously cares about ?
    What would you gain from it ,and would it hurt your family if they heard you muttering a satanic prayer in their church

    Bad idea all round

    Again, as above, I was only joking... :o

    Jeez, the sarcasm-o-meters definitely aren't working in here. :D


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    #34
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Jeez, yo, wait till next week. My meters, all of them, aren't, ahem, functioning. :o


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    #35
    JaseBelleVie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 936 ✭✭✭JaseBelleVie


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Jeez, yo, wait till next week. My meters, all of them, aren't, ahem, functioning. :o

    Look, you're talking to a guy who f*cked his body clock up so badly over the holidays that I fell into bed at 5am today. Back up at 7am. Spent all day shivering in work from a combination of caffeine overdose and lack of sleep. I'm now sitting here on my laptop full of the joys of spring.

    My body hates me. But at least it sounds like I'm not alone! :D


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    #36
    JaseBelleVie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 936 ✭✭✭JaseBelleVie


    I'm just looking through this here now. What the f*ck have I started?! :eek:

    While I would define myself as an atheist, I would never be openly offensive to the RCC or my parents' religion.

    However, that won't stop me posting crap on the internet. :P :o


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    #37
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    jank wrote: »
    Respect and politeness costs nothing.
    Sometimes it costs your self respect.
    If you are at wedding, baptism or a funeral of course one has to show respect to the customs that those involved adhere to. Many of the people who go to these events are not regular mass goers but they show respect for the dead, the child or the couple.

    Example: I used to go to mass every year on the occasion of my son's school mates' confirmation as a mark of respect to them. It's a very close knit community and even though I am an affirmed atheist, I felt it was important to acknowledge that this was a big day for my children's friends. The last one I attended, the children were each up on the pulpit saying a little "Thank you Lord for....blah de blah", but one child came out with something along the lines of "Thank you Lord for showing our teachers the importance of keeping our faith strong in our school" and to this day I am angry at myself for not standing up there and then and walking out.

    The respect I had to show at that point (to the children making their confirmation and to my own children, that I didn't make a show of them) was severely tested, due to the lack of respect that those words were showing to me and my children. I felt forced into showing respect for words that directly and negatively effected me and mine, and so I've never been back. Not even for funerals. I will go to the house and pay my respects, and to a removal, but never again to a church.


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    #38
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,812 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i wouldn't say simply leaving mass is a form of disrespect.


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    #39
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i wouldn't say simply leaving mass is a form of disrespect.

    It is if you have children with you and it causes a commotion in the middle of a confirmation ceremony that you are attending only out of respect to the children who are making it. I felt compelled to sit there fuming rather than make a show of anyone else. Had it just been me, I'd have been running out of there like a hot snot.


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    #40
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I understand irritation. I get it. I know people who haven't been to church in years and who bad mouth it on a regular basis who have still done the church wedding, baptism, FHC etc. That doesn't just irritate non religious people like me, it also irritates practising Catholics.

    But its their choice.

    I was recently at a baptism for a child whose parents haven't been to church in over 20 years. I was asked to go and I wanted to go to share an important milestone in their life. I was irritated and we talked about it but we did that long before the day and in the end although I don't agree with them its their decision. The time to voice that is not on the day, not at the event. If you have that much of an issue with it discuss it beforehand, make your points and listen to theirs, decided then if you are prepared to go or if you would feel its better to stay home.

    But if you do go the church is not the time or the place to make a stand. Its rude.


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    #41
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    eviltwin wrote: »
    But if you do go the church is not the time or the place to make a stand. Its rude.

    Even so, I know I wasn't prepared to hear words that directly disrespected me and mine. I would have left if I didn't care about the people involved, but clearly I never go to a church unless I'm intending to respect people I care about! It was a lesson to know that if I go to church again, I must be prepared to sit there through whatever is said. So I won't go.


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    #42
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,362 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I understand irritation. I get it. I know people who haven't been to church in years and who bad mouth it on a regular basis who have still done the church wedding, baptism, FHC etc. That doesn't just irritate non religious people like me, it also irritates practising Catholics.

    But its their choice.

    I was recently at a baptism for a child whose parents haven't been to church in over 20 years. I was asked to go and I wanted to go to share an important milestone in their life. I was irritated and we talked about it but we did that long before the day and in the end although I don't agree with them its their decision. The time to voice that is not on the day, not at the event. If you have that much of an issue with it discuss it beforehand, make your points and listen to theirs, decided then if you are prepared to go or if you would feel its better to stay home.

    But if you do go the church is not the time or the place to make a stand. Its rude.

    Agreed. Love & respect for your family and friends should always come before hatred or disrespect for a religious institution.


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    #43
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Shrap wrote: »
    Sometimes it costs your self respect.

    As I said, either go or don't go. If you do go, show some respect and politeness.


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    #44
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    jank wrote: »
    As I said, either go or don't go. If you do go, show some respect and politeness.

    As I said, I did. Despite the lack of respect the church showed to me. Damage taken to my self-respect though, as I'm sure you can empathise with.


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    #45
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    I suppose it depends how militant people think they are.


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    #46
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    I suppose it depends how militant people think they are.
    That makes zero sense.


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    #47
    daUbiq
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭daUbiq


    Why be respectful to people who believe in fairytales? they should be committed..


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    #48
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    I'm fine with going to church funerals, especially if any of the most bereaved are believers and are drawing comfort from the ritual. I don't particularly like going to church weddings of non believers but at the end of the day, they are two adults who have made their choice and I can accept that and go along with it even if I don't truely respect it.

    But child indoctrination ceremonies, particularly baptisms, make me feel very, very uncomfortable for numerous reasons and I avoid them. For now that's very easy as I can just claim 'fractious toddler' and skip the ceremony. In a couple of years time I guess I'll have to come up with something else.


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    #49
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Shrap wrote: »
    That makes zero sense.

    Let me rephrase. If someone becomes so entrenched in their views they could be classified as militant in that respect. If someone tells themselves that they will never ever enter a church again not matter what, then that would be quite an entrenched view. People like that will always find a reason to tell themselves that they are acting rationally. Hell, even Dawkins go the church sometimes.


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    #50
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    jank wrote: »
    Let me rephrase. If someone becomes so entrenched in their views they could be classified as militant in that respect. If someone tells themselves that they will never ever enter a church again not matter what, then that would be quite an entrenched view.
    You're confusing the words "entrenched" with "militant" and I'm reminded of that "Yes (Prime) Minster" gag about irregular verbs/adjective:

    First person: I'm passionate
    Second person: You're entrenched
    Third person: He's militant


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    #51
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    That somewhat proves my point.


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    #52
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    jank wrote: »
    That somewhat proves my point.
    Not in the slightest. Robin has the right of it.
    robindch wrote: »
    First person: I'm passionate
    Second person: You're entrenched
    Third person: He's militant
    I'll spell it out for you Jank, in these those terms.

    I passionately believe that if injustice and discrimination is being promoted in front of me then I should take a stand and protest. This is entrenched in me, yes.

    I was actually not expecting to hear an attitude that I ordinarily would contradict, or at the very least show my disgust about, being inappropriately promoted at that mass, but now that I see I can expect it, I choose never again to put myself in the position of being unable to protest it out of my respect for other people. This makes me feel sad, not militant. You are wrong.


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    #53
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    A simple graphic might help explain it better - the meaning of "militancy" varies enormously depending on who's using the term. When used to describe atheists, the meaning is almost exclusively pejorative. When used to describe religionists, it can be a compliment, as in "The Church Militant".

    333953.png

    333954.png


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    #54
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    What an interesting day to be reading this thread with what appears to be five men dead for not showing respect for the religious ideals of their murders. Two dead for trying to protect them. Five others dead for being in the vicinity. And many more injured.


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    #55
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    iguana wrote: »
    What an interesting day to be reading this thread with what appears to be five men dead for not showing respect for the religious ideals of their murders. Two dead for trying to protect them. Five others dead for being in the vicinity. And many more injured.
    Quite. I would suggest that respect for the religious should stop at some point before they think they have the right to kill 12 people because their supposedly all powerful god has been offended.

    MrP


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    #56
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    JaseHeath wrote: »
    Lucifer Morning Star put this in After Hours. Next time I'm forced to go to mass, I'm definitely mumbling this as everyone else says the "Our Father".

    How about grow a pair and don't go.


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    #57
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    JaseHeath wrote: »
    Lucifer Morning Star put this in After Hours. Next time I'm forced to go to mass, I'm definitely mumbling this as everyone else says the "Our Father".

    Who forces you to go to mass?


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    #58
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Quite. I would suggest that respect for the religious should stop at some point before they think they have the right to kill 12 people because their supposedly all powerful god has been offended.

    MrP

    How about growing up and learning to differentiate between "the religious" and those who abuse religion?


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    #59
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    jank wrote: »
    . Hell, even Dawkins go the church sometimes.
    Dawkins was married in a church. Here in Ireland...


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    #60
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    MOD:
    katydid wrote: »
    How about growing up and learning to differentiate between "the religious" and those who abuse religion?
    How about not making unhelpful personal comments? Cards + bans await for posters who do.


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    #61
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    robindch wrote: »
    MOD:How about not making unhelpful personal comments? Cards + bans await for posters who do.

    So it's ok to make facile assumptions about religion, and not to tell someone to grow up and try to see things from an adult perspective? Kidchameleon suggested someone "grow a pair", and not a word said...


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