Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Rules thread

Options
  • 30-07-2014 8:18pm
    #1
    Goodluck2me
    Registered Users Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭


    I'm running a matchplay through work, about 60 or so runners in it. We suggested that anyone who didn't have a GUI could play off 18, and that the handicap of the week of the game was in play.

    One guy, who was keen to get a legitimate HC joined a club and stuck in three cards before his match was played and calculated his handicap based on the rules of the GUI, correctly at 21. However, given the match was on a Tues and he handed his last card on the Saturday he didn't get the offical one back from the club.

    So he told his opponent on the day that he calculated it off the GUI rules, and beat him 4&3. The next week his official handicap comes in at 18 from the club, as they have clearly put in some sort of adjustment. What are your thoughts?


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    John Divney
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    He should offer a rematch, he had no handicap, made his own calculation when everyone else played off 18?

    This is not rules if golf because it is not a competition by GUI committee to oversee it, but by your own rules he should have been off 18


  • Options
    #3
    Tones69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭Tones69


    Goodluck2me wrote: »
    I'm running a matchplay through work, about 60 or so runners in it. We suggested that anyone who didn't have a GUI could play off 18, and that the handicap of the week of the game was in play.

    One guy, who was keen to get a legitimate HC joined a club and stuck in three cards before his match was played and calculated his handicap based on the rules of the GUI, correctly at 21. However, given the match was on a Tues and he handed his last card on the Saturday he didn't get the offical one back from the club.

    So he told his opponent on the day that he calculated it off the GUI rules, and beat him 4&3. The next week his official handicap comes in at 18 from the club, as they have clearly put in some sort of adjustment. What are your thoughts?

    He played off the wrong handicap really. He shouldnt have played until he had his OFFICIAL handicap. When i first joined my gc i handed in cards of all over 100! And still got given a h/c of 16.

    Edit: you said you give guys with no official hcap a hcap of 18. This guy didnt have an official hcap so 18 was what you should have made him play off on the day until he got his official one


  • Options
    #4
    cairny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭cairny


    I think technically he should forfeit, the basic principle being that you must cut yourself for a good score immediately but can't ever increase until it's official.

    That said it's not a GUI event and you're free to make your own decision, he made an honest presumption, voiding the match seems equitable to me. I don't think you can let the result stand though.

    Matchplay events are usually run on the basis that everyone plays off whatever handicap they have at the start date. You're making things more complicated by having continually adjusted handicaps, fellas waiting for 0.1s to be applied etc.


  • Options
    #5
    Goodluck2me
    Registered Users Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭Goodluck2me


    Couple of things to bear in mind also. Many of the guys have no idea of the rules. The only reason we found out was he said it to us to ensure it was above board - so no malice or intent to screw someone. His opponent didn't complain about it.

    I don't think the loser of the match wants to re-match either.


  • Options
    #6
    John Divney
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    No harm no foul really then, if the other player is happy then there's no problem.

    Impressed you got 60 people and organised it, fair play, it's a great idea. No need for unnecessary drama


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    cairny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭cairny


    Ah fair enough so, maybe he should be offered it though, if he says no you're grand then everything hunky dory.

    You could consider a "plate" tournament for those that lose their first matches, give everybody two games and keep the interest going. Then again you've probably put too much work into it already.


  • Options
    #8
    Johnodot
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Johnodot


    He should have played off 18 - as per your rules he did not have a GUI handicap at the time. If he won 4&3, he probably would have still won. Irrespective of this, if the result is officially announced and there is no claim by the opponent, then it stands - as per Decision 6-2a/5, it stands unless the player had known he was giving wrong information, which clearly he didn't.


  • Options
    #9
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,094 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Goodluck2me wrote: »
    What are your thoughts?

    Run the society as you deem best.
    Don't fall into the trap of trying to be the GUI, R&A etc. Just do the right thing as you, and the society, see it.


  • Options
    #10
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,056 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    PARlance wrote: »
    Run the society as you deem best.
    Don't fall into the trap of trying to be the GUI, R&A etc. Just do the right thing as you, and the society, see it.

    Run it using the best rule of golf.
    Play the ball as it lies, play the course as you find it, and if you cannot do either, do what is fair.


  • Options
    #11
    mike12
    Registered Users Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭mike12


    the result may still have been 4&3 so i would leave it as it is.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Johnny_Fontane
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Johnny_Fontane


    my partner got called up last night in fourball matchplay for raking a bunker before taking his shot. He had jumped into the back of the bunker (well away from his ball).

    guy we were playing immediately called two shot penalty.

    We didnt check the rules at the time (the guy was well down the fairway), but you are allowed to rake the sand before or after your shot. (exception 2 to rule 13-4)

    What a dick!


  • Options
    #13
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,782 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Johnny_Fontane wrote: »
    my partner got called up last night in fourball matchplay for raking a bunker before taking his shot. He had jumped into the back of the bunker (well away from his ball).

    guy we were playing immediately called two shot penalty.

    We didnt check the rules at the time (the guy was well down the fairway), but you are allowed to rake the sand before or after your shot. (exception 2 to rule 13-4)

    What a dick!

    That was covered here a while back - well somewhere , might have been on illegal driver thread - that some lads call stuff and are wrong. Sort of ignorant opportunistic arseholes.


  • Options
    #14
    Goodluck2me
    Registered Users Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭Goodluck2me


    He was very gracious, offered a rematch or to be kicked out, his opponent told me it was Dormy 6 so he said it wouldn't have made any difference. So given its a social game, a genuine mistake and he's been honest about it we've carried on. Obviously playing off 18 now.

    Thanks for the feedback


  • Options
    #15
    Goodluck2me
    Registered Users Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭Goodluck2me


    FixdePitchmark wrote: »
    That was covered here a while back - well somewhere , might have been on illegal driver thread - that some lads call stuff and are wrong. Sort of ignorant opportunistic arseholes.

    In my view you have to be very sure to call someone up on that, especially on the course.

    Just out of curiosity, is it only the club that can't touch the sand?


  • Options
    #16
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,094 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Goodluck2me wrote: »
    In my view you have to be very sure to call someone up on that, especially on the course.

    Just out of curiosity, is it only the club that can't touch the sand?

    Just for another twist. The club can touch the sand if it's a case that you've lost balance and you're using it to stop you from falling. (Not sure the exact wording).


  • Options
    #17
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    I thought you could now rake the bunker away from where your ball is if you deemed it course maintenance?


  • Options
    #18
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,094 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    ForeRight wrote: »
    I thought you could now rake the bunker away from where your ball is if you deemed it course maintenance?

    Ya you are, OP was playing with some guy that thought differently though


  • Options
    #19
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    PARlance wrote: »
    Ya you are, OP was playing with some guy that thought differently though



    It's unreal the amount of people out there that are wrongly willing to jump on you for a rules shout. They are ever so matter of fact about it too.


    I played recently in a match.

    Tee shot went deep into trees so I declared a provisional to be played. That too went into big trouble.

    Went looking for the first ball. Found it buried in the trees. I called an unplayable and told the guy I was going back to play again under penalty. He said I couldn't do that and I had to play my provisional.

    No I don't I said. That provisional was only in play of I lost my first ball and I was taking my option of replaying the shot so back I went.

    Lost the hole so nothing came of it but he was in an awful huff over it as he thought I was wrong.

    I think I was right? I hope I was anyway!


  • Options
    #20
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Russman


    ForeRight wrote: »
    It's unreal the amount of people out there that are wrongly willing to jump on you for a rules shout. They are ever so matter of fact about it too.


    I played recently in a match.

    Tee shot went deep into trees so I declared a provisional to be played. That too went into big trouble.

    Went looking for the first ball. Found it buried in the trees. I called an unplayable and told the guy I was going back to play again under penalty. He said I couldn't do that and I had to play my provisional.

    No I don't I said. That provisional was only in play of I lost my first ball and I was taking my option of replaying the shot so back I went.

    Lost the hole so nothing came of it but he was in an awful huff over it as he thought I was wrong.

    I think I was right? I hope I was anyway!

    You were completely correct, once the original is found, the provisional no longer matters.


  • Options
    #21
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    Russman wrote: »
    You were completely correct, once the original is found, the provisional no longer matters.



    Yeah I thought that but it's hard not to talk yourself out of it when someone questions you like they know best.
    He obviously couldn't accept that I got a second bite at teeing off for 3.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Goodluck2me
    Registered Users Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭Goodluck2me


    ForeRight wrote: »
    It's unreal the amount of people out there that are wrongly willing to jump on you for a rules shout. They are ever so matter of fact about it too.


    I played recently in a match.

    Tee shot went deep into trees so I declared a provisional to be played. That too went into big trouble.

    Went looking for the first ball. Found it buried in the trees. I called an unplayable and told the guy I was going back to play again under penalty. He said I couldn't do that and I had to play my provisional.

    No I don't I said. That provisional was only in play of I lost my first ball and I was taking my option of replaying the shot so back I went.

    Lost the hole so nothing came of it but he was in an awful huff over it as he thought I was wrong.

    I think I was right? I hope I was anyway!

    So do you get to hit your third off the tee again? (literally your third in this case?

    Also could someone explain the concept and rule around "unplayable" ive never invoked it.


  • Options
    #23
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    Goodluck2me wrote: »
    So do you get to hit your third off the tee again? (literally your third in this case?

    Also could someone explain the concept and rule around "unplayable" ive never invoked it.



    You can call a ball unplayable anywhere you like and then under penalty you can
    play a ball from where your last shot was played, or
    drop a ball any distance behind the point where the ball lay keeping a straight line between the hole, the point where the ball lay and the spot on which the ball is dropped, or
    drop a ball within two club-lengths of where the ball lies not nearer the hole.



    In my scenario I went back and re teed for my third but the guy was telling me my provisional was now in play. It's not once I found my first I told him.


  • Options
    #24
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,056 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Unless you are in a bunker where you can't just go back as fast as you want, you can replay or drop within the bunker.


  • Options
    #25
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Unless you are in a bunker where you can't just go back as fast as you want, you can replay or drop within the bunker.


    I forgot to stipulate that.

    Same in a hazard too is it?


  • Options
    #26
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,056 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    ForeRight wrote: »
    I forgot to stipulate that.

    Same in a hazard too is it?

    Water hazard had pretty much the same options, replay, drop in line with flag and entry point, use drop zone out with a lateral two club lengths out from point ball last crossed hazard. Note it's not important where the ball ends up when in a water hazard, only where it last crossed the hazard.


  • Options
    #27
    Goodluck2me
    Registered Users Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭Goodluck2me


    Very helpful thanks


  • Options
    #28
    cairny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭cairny


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Water hazard had pretty much the same options, replay, drop in line with flag and entry point, use drop zone out with a lateral two club lengths out from point ball last crossed hazard. Note it's not important where the ball ends up when in a water hazard, only where it last crossed the hazard.

    Isn't there one more option for lateral water hazards....a point on opposite side of the hazard but same distance from hole?


  • Options
    #29
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,056 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    cairny wrote: »
    Isn't there one more option for lateral water hazards....a point on opposite side of the hazard but same distance from hole?

    Correct, the two club lengths can be taken on either side of a lateral hazard.


  • Options
    #30
    TrapperChamonix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭TrapperChamonix


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Unless you are in a bunker where you can't just go back as fast as you want, you can replay or drop within the bunker.

    In a related way what is worth considering is if you putt off the green into a bunker. Sometimes you are better calling unplayable and dropping on the green (or do you place it?).


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,056 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    TrapperChamonix wrote: »
    In a related way what is worth considering is if you putt off the green into a bunker. Sometimes you are better calling unplayable and dropping on the green (or do you place it?).

    If taking a penalty and replaying was the best chance of a low score in that scenario I'd go get a bunker lesson!


Advertisement