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Importing a carbon frame from China - anti dumping duty?

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  • 09-04-2014 11:19pm
    #1
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭


    I am close to ordering a carbon frame from China. Whats holding me back is the concern that I may get hit by the 48.5% anti dumping duty which I hear has been applied by EU customs in other countries on private imports of frames from China. (Source roadbikeforum)

    What are the views from boardsies who have bought frames / wheels from China? Standard duty plus vat or those plus the antidumping duty?

    I rang customs here and got two versions. One that as an importer of less than 300 parts per month, the duty did not apply, and the other that the 300 unit exemption only applies if the importer has an end user agreement, which only applies to manufacturers.

    My interpretation of the EU legislation is that its not intended to penalise individual importers. It's intended for commercial importation-hence the name anti dumping. It would seem unfair that the likes of planet x, decathlon, rose, plus loads of others have an expemption (loads of EU manufactures do as they get the frames from China) as they then assemble a bike in the EU, while Joe Consumer wanting to assemble his own bike, can't avail of the same exemption.


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    #2
    emmett12
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭emmett12


    I know if 2 poeple having frames but are very nice looking bikes when new but the paint is easily damage and both will have to be resrapyed at some stage as for the wheels I got a set they do the job so unless u are buying something with class hubs the one from china are grand ... Yes u can get caught by the customs just depends on your luck really


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    #3
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Just to clarify...I am not trying to evade taxes!


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    #4
    Robxxx7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭Robxxx7


    I imported a frame, fork and bits there last year and was fortunate not to get stopped for customs taxes etc .. but i built it into the cost of the frame etc anyway just in case. I would say if you buy one just factor in the extra cost .. if you don't have to pay the extra then its a big bonus.


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    #5
    lennymc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭lennymc


    i got wheels recently and paid taxes etc, but, with the prospect of the 48.5% anti dumping charge, why not go with a frame from within the eu? The chinese frames seem to be about 400 ish, then add on delivery, and duty (I read on another site they are clamping down on everything from china) and even without the potential anti dumping charge you are up at 700 ish (very rough maths), it makes the chinese frames seem a whole lot less cheap imho.


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    #6
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Thanks for the replies. I would agree with you Lenny...if the anti dumping tax is a certainty, the frames are not as good value -something that lands in the country with a CIF value of 400 practically doubles after duty/tax.

    But the question remains...how could an import by a person not acting in the course of business be reckonable for an anti dumping tax-where is the large scale import that anti dumping measures are designed to prevent?


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    #7
    lennymc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭lennymc


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    But the question remains...how could an import by a person not acting in the course of business be reckonable for an anti dumping tax-where is the large scale import that anti dumping measures are designed to prevent?
    unfortunately its revenue, and i think depending on who you deal with it you will get different answers. AFAIK the only way to go if you are charged the ADD is to pay it and then appeal it. Tis a pita. Does the ADD charge only come into effect for items from certain countries? (ie China), as I have seen talk about buying stuff from Taiwan, but I dont know who does frames from there.


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    #8
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Perhaps you could write a letter to Revenue seeking clarification on whether ADD applies to individuals. If you get a reply saying it doesn't, keep this on file and use it in any appeal should you be charged for it.


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    #9
    omri
    Registered Users Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭omri


    You can always buy turas frame - its from one of the chinese frame builders, they will even let you design your own paint work, if it developes a fault at least youll have irish company to chase for warranty etc and not some ebay guy.

    It will cost €1.2k or so - but hey support the local business.


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    #10
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Writing to revenue seems like a good idea...though I wrote to them before about a commercial stamp duty issue. They advised a 3% rate, then I was audited and told the rate was 9% and had to pay interest and penalties. I was not happy about it. Appealed and lost. They said they don't give good tax advice and anything they say is not binding on them if they get it wrong. What a wonderful world they live in!


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    #11
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    omri wrote: »
    You can always buy turas frame - its from one of the chinese frame builders....

    It will cost €1.2k or so - but hey support the local business.

    Sounds like a flawed business model to me. Why pay them €1.2k for something they land in Ireland for about €500? They are making a supernormal profit and adding very little value to the item for it.

    With an end user agreement from Revenue, they would avoid the 48.5% duty which only highlights my point-anti dumping should not apply to a personal import.


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    #12
    omri
    Registered Users Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭omri


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    Sounds like a flawed business model to me. Why pay them €1.2k for something they land in Ireland for about €500? They are making a supernormal profit and adding very little value to the item for it.

    With an end user agreement from Revenue, they would avoid the 48.5% duty which only highlights my point-anti dumping should not apply to a personal import.

    If youre willing to support the local business and have few quid to spare then why not. Sadly my bossman does not share the same view re my wage hence I buy where the best price is..plus I dont fancy turas frames anyway.


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    #13
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    omri wrote: »
    If youre willing to support the local business and have few quid to spare then why not. Sadly my bossman does not share the same view re my wage hence I buy where the best price is..plus I dont fancy turas frames anyway.

    I think the turas pricing as indicated above (1,200) does not represent good value. Planet X frames are much the same (Chinese made. Toray t700 etc) but are not as expensive. I am open to correction on that though! Maybe the painting is higher standard?

    Are there any more people here that have experience buying a Chinese frame? Looking for peoples experiences of customs duties. There must be loads of people that have bought these...

    Thanks


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    #14
    Quigs Snr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭Quigs Snr


    I got some wheels from farsport for a friend a week ago. They were hit for customs (three wheels in total coming to 675 euro). All charges came to an extra 192 euro.


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    #15
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,784 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I know it's not really the question , but. If I was importing a Chinese frame it'd be a naked carbon finish. I've seen some terrible paint jobs on these frames, but carbon always looks good.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #16
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Quigs Snr wrote: »
    I got some wheels from farsport for a friend a week ago. They were hit for customs (three wheels in total coming to 675 euro). All charges came to an extra 192 euro.

    With that amount charged it would seem you only paid standard duty and VAT. Which is hopeful...


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    #17
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Brian? wrote: »
    I know it's not really the question , but. If I was importing a Chinese frame it'd be a naked carbon finish. I've seen some terrible paint jobs on these frames, but carbon always looks good.

    I have heard that too. I would be buying unpainted (well Matt black or gloss clear coat)


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    #18
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,784 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    I have heard that too. I would be buying unpainted (well Matt black or gloss clear coat)

    Good choice. I reckon bare unidirectional carbon is nice looking than any paint job. A few decals is as much as it needs. With an unbranded Chinese frame if leave it bare.

    Have you looked at Hong fu? They have a frame very similar to the Cervelo R3 that's tasty.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #19
    Rua_ri
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Rua_ri


    I got the FM066SL from Dengfu.
    http://dengfubikes.com/product/detail.php?id=124

    Got it in the unpainted unidirectional carbon.
    Built it with Campagnolo Chorus .

    IMO the unidirectional finish of the Campag carbon works really well with the frameset.


    To the OP i got mine last year, it arrived at work with no charges or duty.
    I got lucky i guess.

    Rgs
    Rua


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    #20
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Brian? wrote: »
    Good choice. I reckon bare unidirectional carbon is nice looking than any paint job......

    Have you looked at Hong fu? They have a frame very similar to the Cervelo R3 that's tasty.

    Funny you say that...that was the frame I was looking at. Looks tasty alright! Velobuild have a version-maybe the same mould, they call it the r-055, and they sell for $450.


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    #21
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Rua_ri wrote: »
    I got the FM066SL from Dengfu.

    To the OP i got mine last year, it arrived at work with no charges or duty.
    I got lucky i guess.

    Lucky you!

    Good choice. How are you finding it?


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    #22
    Ger.O.Mahony
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭Ger.O.Mahony


    I got a FM098 from Dengfu, no hassle importing it over a year ago, great frame, still going strong.


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    #23
    Rua_ri
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Rua_ri


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    Lucky you!

    Good choice. How are you finding it?

    I find it great. Haven't taken it to the hills properly yet as I had it in storage for the winter.
    Taking it on the 120km tour DE foothills tomorrow.
    First proper outing, should tell a lot.

    Big difference going from a 10+ kg bike to one that's 6.8 kg.


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    #24
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Rua_ri wrote: »
    I find it great. Haven't taken it to the hills properly yet as I had it in storage for the winter.
    Taking it on the 120km tour DE foothills tomorrow.
    First proper outing, should tell a lot.

    Big difference going from a 10+ kg bike to one that's 6.8 kg.

    I would say the difference is massive...and hoping I notice the change too! Still riding my Columbus SL I raced from 89-94. Same components (dura ace/chorus) ..the only difference is I can't make it go as fast now :-)

    Your post explains all the TDF markings I seen today out round Blessington/Kilbride/ Ballymore. Nice roads for cycling. Enjoy the big test spin on the hills.


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    #25
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    Perhaps you could write a letter to Revenue seeking clarification on whether ADD applies to individuals. If you get a reply saying it doesn't, keep this on file and use it in any appeal should you be charged for it.

    Or just ask Beasty!


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    #26
    seanin4711
    Registered Users Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭seanin4711


    Couldd be in the market for a tt frame and/or wheels (checks to see if other half is lurking over my shoulder)


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    #27
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    seanin4711 wrote: »
    Couldd be in the market for a tt frame and/or wheels

    I maybe interested in that. Would be looking for a road frameset


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    #28
    SOR2010
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭SOR2010


    I got a frame handlebars & saddle last Sept value was $700 and the Customs was €123


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    #29
    BofaDeezNuhtz
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭BofaDeezNuhtz


    anti dumping duty???.....oh yeah because the countryside is just awash with people discarding their carbon frames ffs!

    I've never heard such bollox in me life or am I missing something here?


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    #30
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,308 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    seanin4711 wrote: »
    Couldd be in the market for a tt frame and/or wheels (checks to see if other half is lurking over my shoulder)
    If you want to do a group buy, please don't do it in a thread about anti-dumping duty. You should also make anyone aware of all costs, including import duties. Boards in no way condones anything that would look to avoid any legally due tax or duties (I am not suggesting that was your intention here, just ponting it out given you chose to mention a group buy in this particular thread)

    Anyway, I'm closing this one - please feel free to start a separate thread if you wish


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    #31
    lennymc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭lennymc


    The powers that be kindly agreed to unlock this thread, so please keep it on topic, and if there are any tax evasion, bulk buys or anything else OT please post it somewhere else, as this anti dumping tax information could be useful to lots of people.

    Anyway, OP - did you ever order the frame, and if so did you get hit for the tax? Did anyone else order a frame?

    Thanks,


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