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Golf Forum and Betting.

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  • 04-07-2013 2:01pm
    #1
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,325 ✭✭✭✭


    Seems a curious anomaly that there is no problem with gambling/betting discussion in soccer/rugby/cricket/AmericanFootball yet it is controlled/frowned upon/subject to infraction in various areas of the Golf forum.
    Charter here, section 'betting'. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=320620

    To me personally sports and gambling are hugely intertwined, and golf would be one of the top gambling sports imo.

    As I understand it the mods themselves are not au fait with gambling (which is fine) and do not particularly want discussion of it on the forum (which is less fine) so some polls were done about a year ago to see what the users wanted.
    These polls were actually in favour of allowing gambling talk to continue as in all other sports forums on the site, however the mods decided to ignore the results of the poll and to limit gambling talk to specific threads.

    Which leads to the situation that a post which would be fine in any other forum on an 'in-running thread" ("Lions/Liverpool/AndyMurray/VanGerwen have drifted to 7/4, probably worth a bet") would lead to a yellow card if was on a golf tournament thread.
    Example of (imo) a really terrible infraction which this strange rule leads to.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85311487&postcount=1547
    Post edited by Shield on


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    #2
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I can see the desire to stop it creeping into every discussion, but at the same time that infraction in the Shane Lowry thread seems harsh. Perhaps the charter could be amended to at least give the mods themselves discretion to move/delete (or ignore) harmless odds talk, and instead let them sanction gambling talk that has overtaken otherwise useful threads.


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    #3
    ssbob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭ssbob


    Thanks for starting this thread, and as I am a mod of the Golf Forum I just want to declare my interest.

    Personally I like the odd flutter but don't mention it too much on the forum as some of my contempories in work are regular users of the forum.

    The problem I have with the gambling talk in the golf forum is that in the middle of a tournament thread/player thread you get 2-3 pages on endless drivel where everyone is giving their tuppence adding no real value to that specific thread, if a thread is entitled "Irish Open" I think the chat should centre around that title and not around gambling, but thats not to say gambling can't be referred to!

    This all blew up recently in the golf feedback thread and we came to a consensus along with other users that we would have no problem in setting up a gambling specific thread which tbh hasn't taken off!

    This poll you referred to last year was before my time as a mod but maybe we could make it an annual poll as users frequently change in each forum?


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    #4
    TrueDub
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 2,639 Mod ✭✭✭✭TrueDub


    FYI, there's actually a specific thread for Golf Betting in the Gambling forum. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056896763


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    #5
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    as above, the charter links to the golf thread in the gambling forum and we created a general gambling thread in the golf forum itself.

    pages of gambling posts disrupts a thread about a tournament, most people don't care about your individual bet.


    the Lowry thread got a warning because the rule had been in place for a long time, with many in thread warnings.
    if we don't ever enforce the charter it's pointless to have it.


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    #6
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,325 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    TrueDub wrote: »
    FYI, there's actually a specific thread for Golf Betting in the Gambling forum. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056896763

    I'm not sure how relevant that is to be honest - theres also large football and gaa threads on the gambling forum, and other sports have smaller threads there also.

    However the soccer and GAA fora still allow gambling talk, as do the other sports. A soccer/GAA/rugby match thread won't pass without a reference to the latest odds and a few whoops when first scorer gets decided etc.

    The Golf forum appears to be the anomaly here.


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    #7
    ssbob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭ssbob


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    However the soccer and GAA fora still allow gambling talk, as do the other sports. A soccer/GAA/rugby match thread won't pass without a reference to the latest odds and a few whoops when first scorer gets decided etc.

    The Golf forum appears to be the anomaly here.


    Not saying I agree or disagree with you here but this is hardly an argument to have the golf betting "just because other forums have it"! We did discuss this in great detail already.


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    #8
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    also op, this was done to death on the golf feedback form.


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    #9
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,325 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    GreeBo wrote: »
    also op, this was done to death on the golf feedback form.

    I wasn't aware of that - I wouldn't be a huge contributor to the forum and tend to just be around for the marquee events and the big breaking stories.

    Nothwithstanding that I still think this is a valid thread to a wider audience, get the opinion of sports cmods if they wish etc.


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    #10
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    I wasn't aware of that - I wouldn't be a huge contributor to the forum and tend to just be around for the marquee events and the big breaking stories.

    Nothwithstanding that I still think this is a valid thread to a wider audience, get the opinion of sports cmods if they wish etc.

    your not a huge contributor to the golf forum yet you frown upon the way we moderate it??

    I am one of the ones who doesn't like the gambling chat getting in the way of discussing when tournament is on. Like what was said above - the odd post here and there is fine but endless posts about it take from the topic of the thread.
    We listened to what the posters wanted and set up a gambling specific thread and if you look now its rarely viewed / posted in.


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    #11
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    I wasn't aware of that - I wouldn't be a huge contributor to the forum and tend to just be around for the marquee events and the big breaking stories.

    Actually you dont have a single post on the golf forum in 9 years.
    You do have > 250 posts in the Gambling forum.
    I's suggest that perhaps you are a little biased in this matter?
    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Nothwithstanding that I still think this is a valid thread to a wider audience, get the opinion of sports cmods if they wish etc.

    The golf forum is run for the golf forum users/contributors, frankly I dont know why you think we would take the opinion of people who dont fall into this category on board?
    Also I dont see why the CMODs would overrule the Mods on how "their" forum is being run if there isnt a problem?

    Do you think the Wrestling forum is going to take on board my suggestions for changes (that they have already decided upon after lengthy debate), considering I contribute zero to their forum?


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    #12
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,325 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Actually you dont have a single post on the golf forum in 9 years.

    This is completely and utterly not true.


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    #13
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    ssbob wrote: »
    This all blew up recently in the golf feedback thread and we came to a consensus along with other users that we would have no problem in setting up a gambling specific thread which tbh hasn't taken off!

    This poll you referred to last year was before my time as a mod but maybe we could make it an annual poll as users frequently change in each forum?
    This is interesting if true, as the OP implied the majority were for betting talk in any thread.
    No harm in raising it again if it was clear people wanted change.

    Though the OP's standing in this issue has been dealt a blow on the basis he clearly cares more for the flutter than the putter. ;)
    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    This is completely and utterly not true.
    You're right insofar as you've posted 8 times in 8 years.


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    #14
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    I this is a classic case of what applies in one forum does not necessarily apply in another.

    The bottom line is, if the regulars of the forum want something mandatory/forbidden, well that's what is important. It is the same for advertising - some forums approve of it, some forbid it.

    Horses for courses, really, if you pardon the pun.


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    #15
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    It's a tough one to be fair, it seems the betting thread has fallen flat on its face. Generally I wouldn't be a fan of outright bans on related aspects of sports.

    I agree that the 'go on Rory got him @5/1' type posts can be irritating to read but sometimes mod actions in relation to betting talk can seem overly harsh at times. However if the people have spoken, the people have spoken.
    Dades wrote: »
    Though the OP's standing in this issue has been dealt a blow on the basis he clearly cares more for the flutter than the putter. ;)

    Well played sir ;)


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    #16
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,325 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Dades wrote: »
    This is interesting if true, as the OP implied the majority were for betting talk in any thread.
    No harm in raising it again if it was clear people wanted change.

    Though the OP's standing in this issue has been dealt a blow on the basis he clearly cares more for the flutter than the putter. ;)

    You're right insofar as you've posted 8 times in 8 years.

    Or 8 times in 3 years if you prefer, surely the count should start from my first post in the forum.
    Either way I didn't think this was a post count issue. I lurk, I read other peoples more expert views than mine. On a few occasions I've been able to answer a question and have done so. How many posts do I need to be relevant?

    FWIW, this was the poll(s) a year ago that I was referring to. I don't believe I've misrepresented the results, the majority 66.6%33.3% wanted the betting talk in the 'main' thread.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056702876 (I don't have permission to see the result of this one).
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056703694 (This one is the 66/33 split)

    I've hunted down the feedback thread and this seems to be the attitude to it, that people may not have voted the way they deep down wanted to vote.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    The issue with a poll is that it implies the result of the poll will be implemented, this isnt always the case as we, as moderators, have the health of the forum to think of, this can sometimes be contrary to what the populous wants (or thinks they want)


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    #17
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Dades wrote: »
    This is interesting if true, as the OP implied the majority were for betting talk in any thread.
    No harm in raising it again if it was clear people wanted change.
    This was discussed on the feedback thread in May so I dont think we will be revisiting this again any time soon!

    Since the poll last year the charter was amended to allow users to create a Gambling thread for a tournament. If memory servers not a single gambling thread was created.

    After the feedback session in May we created an Epic gambling thread for all gambling posts.
    This thread sees a bit of action, but not much.
    Users still have the option of creating a specific one if they so wish.

    The point is that we are golfers, posts on the golf forum should be about golf.
    There is a gambling forum for posts about gambling, it already has a golf thread in it.
    If we allow gambling every major we get flooded with posts about odds from people who use the golf forum 4 times a year.

    Finally, if gambling was that important to people I think we would have more posts in the gambling thread within the golf forum.
    Dades wrote: »
    Though the OP's standing in this issue has been dealt a blow on the basis he clearly cares more for the flutter than the putter. ;)
    Lol.:D


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    #18
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Either way I didn't think this was a post count issue. I lurk, I read other peoples more expert views than mine. On a few occasions I've been able to answer a question and have done so. How many posts do I need to be relevant?
    Your post count is a measure of your contributions to the forum.
    Naturally we are going to value the opinions of members who contribute more than those that dont.


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    #19
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,625 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Don't really see what the problem is here - the local mods have facilitated betting discussion through the Golf Betting Megathread.

    Could I make 2 suggestions though:

    1. Could that thread be linked from the stickied Index of Important/Useful threads?
    2. The Charter needs updating to recognise the fact that betting talk is permitted in the Megathread


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    #20
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    Made those changes there now.


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    #21
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Reads well. Can I suggest one change?
    Charter wrote:
    Infractions will may be given for breaches of this rule
    Discretion ftw. :)


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