22000 on the Maynooth commuter service

n97 mini · 21-08-2012 12:13am #1

Last Monday week (13th) I got the last train from Drumcondra for Mayooth. To my surprise it was a 22000.

I rarely get this train: is it usual that it's a 22000, or was it a one off.

I have to say I've grown to despise the regular noisy, smelly and uncomfortable commuter rolling stock on this line, but I found the 22000 a breath of fresh air. As well as being a million times more comfortable they seem to have better acceleration too.

It seems an awful shame that these 22000's are running mostly empty up and down to Sligo when they could serve a much bigger population on the commuter run.

Judgement Day · 21-08-2012 12:24am

The 22000s are Inter-City railcars and their use for commuter operations will see them wrecked in double quick time - hopefully your experience will not be a regular occurrence.

Captain Chaos · 21-08-2012 12:26am

I'd say it was a one off. There is more 22000 sets than needed right now, which is fortunate as the 29s that normally work the commuter services are due their first heavy maintenance cycle. 98% of the 29000 fleet are needed Mon-Fri so they are in heavy usage.

The 22000 are not designed for commuter runs due to the lack of standing space and the door layout is not suited to fast loading and unloading. The 29s are perfect for those cattle car services.

During the week I saw a 22 on a Balbriggan service normally worked by the 29s. The 22s are normally left to the Dundalk services on the northern line and the 29s take care of everything else.

n97 mini · 21-08-2012 1:01am

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The 22000 are not designed for commuter runs due to the lack of standing space and the door layout is not suited to fast loading and unloading.

Outside of peak time there is no need for fast loading/unloading and there were a surplus of seats, considering it was the last train.

I say bring 'em on!

n97 mini · 21-08-2012 1:03am

Judgement Day wrote: »

The 22000s are Inter-City railcars and their use for commuter operations will see them wrecked in double quick time -

Wouldn't it be better see them wrecked from use than pristine from lack of use?

CIE · 21-08-2012 5:54am

n97 mini wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better see them wrecked from use than pristine from lack of use?

No, because that would be abuse. But then again, if they do start falling apart in commuter service, it really ought to bring into question the procurement methods employed by IE.

The long-term view is still to DART-ise this line. Would the ould 8100 class be preferable to either commuter DMU or intercity DMU now? That cannot be likely.

Hungerford · 21-08-2012 8:43am

CIE wrote: »

No, because that would be abuse. But then again, if they do start falling apart in commuter service, it really ought to bring into question the procurement methods employed by IE.

They have already started. I recently got one of the Northern Line units - they certainly are not wearing well under commuter conditions.

gawker · 21-08-2012 10:03am

Judgement Day wrote: »

The 22000s are Inter-City railcars and their use for commuter operations will see them wrecked in double quick time - hopefully your experience will not be a regular occurrence.

They run every journey on the Heuston-Kildare commute though? Quite a nice train really.

Judgement Day · 21-08-2012 10:37am

gawker wrote: »

They run every journey on the Heuston-Kildare commute though? Quite a nice train really.

I don't think that anybody is disputing whether they are a nice train or not but they will be unfit for inter-city use very quickly if they get used for commuter services.

gawker · 21-08-2012 10:50am

Judgement Day wrote: »

I don't think that anybody is disputing whether they are a nice train or not but they will be unfit for inter-city use very quickly if they get used for commuter services.

I wonder if they have any other options though? Do they have enough alternative rolling stock to do these commuter lines without the 22k?

From what I can see they have too many 22ks so they've probably decided "feck it, we will just throw them wherever..."

n97 mini · 21-08-2012 11:56am

Judgement Day wrote: »

I don't think that anybody is disputing whether they are a nice train or not but they will be unfit for inter-city use very quickly if they get used for commuter services.

I don't really understand your logic. There are far more commuters than Intercity customers. I don't see why Intercity customers should get any preferential treatment as a result.

When there are no loading issues, i.e. off peak, I would see no issues in using 22000s on commuter runs.

Is what gawker said true? All Kildare commuter services are 29000s?

gawker · 21-08-2012 2:14pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Is what gawker said true? All Kildare commuter services are 29000s?

Just to clarify I was referring to 22000s.

RonanM123 · 21-08-2012 2:42pm

The 22000 on the Kildare line can operate at 70-100mph which is much higher than the Maynooth services and the main reason that they are used on Kildare line is becasue of they can operate at max speel between Nass-Kildare which stops any delays to intercity services.

The only reason they are on the Northen line is because of the maintance centre in Drogheda. As already said they are not suitable for Maynooth services and they should be taken off the M3 parkway services to and the shuttle service should be worked by 29000 when it starts.

dowlingm · 21-08-2012 3:06pm

the high density 22Ks were bought as commuter. They shouldn't have been - C4Ks or another high speed 1/3-2/3 door type would have been preferable for that duty - but that is what happened.

xtradel · 21-08-2012 4:26pm

Saw a 3 car 22000 set last thursday working the early morning Galway to Limerick. First met it at Ardrahan LC and met it again at the LC just before gort....not much speed in it considering i was driving a truck limited to 90kph and still nearly beat it to the LC outside Gort!

LXFlyer · 21-08-2012 5:53pm

Nothing to do with the train - it's down to the speed restrictions on the track.

LXFlyer · 21-08-2012 5:55pm

RonanM123 wrote: »

The 22000 on the Kildare line can operate at 70-100mph which is much higher than the Maynooth services and the main reason that they are used on Kildare line is becasue of they can operate at max speel between Nass-Kildare which stops any delays to intercity services.

The only reason they are on the Northen line is because of the maintance centre in Drogheda. As already said they are not suitable for Maynooth services and they should be taken off the M3 parkway services to and the shuttle service should be worked by 29000 when it starts.

Ok - so given the 2800s are no longer in Dublin, does it not make more sense to use the shorter train (22k) on the less densely used service (M3) if spare sets are available to do it?

Either way, people also need to realise that the 22k sets may operate a mix of commuter and Intercity services on the Connolly side on any given day - that could be the most efficient use of the sets.

dublinman1990 · 21-08-2012 6:30pm

I had seen a 3 car 22000 set operating from Connolly to Wexford just before 6pm yesterday evening at Dun Laoghaire.

The only thing is though that every seat within that train was taken while it arrived there. I would say that by looking inside the train; the remaining passengers had to stand until they got through most or all of their train journey home.

LXFlyer · 21-08-2012 7:07pm

Shock horror. A full train in rush hour at Dun Laoghaire. Incredible. Who would have thought it could happen.

Yet another totally inane post.

n97 mini · 21-08-2012 7:26pm

gawker wrote: »

Just to clarify I was referring to 22000s.

Oops, my bad. That's skim reading for ya!

Judgement Day · 21-08-2012 7:27pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Shock horror. A full train in rush hour at Dun Laoghaire. Incredible. Who would have thought it could happen.

Yet another totally inane post.

Presumably the 17.36 Connolly/Wexford inter-city service. Why should inter-city passengers on the Rosslare line have to stand for a substantial part of their journey - oh, that's right some cretin forgot to include Selective Door Opening as part of the specifications for the 22000s which means we are condemned to having 3-piece sets for the next xxx years. :rolleyes:

Captain Chaos · 21-08-2012 9:21pm

3

Judgement Day wrote: »

Presumably the 17.36 Connolly/Wexford inter-city service. Why should inter-city passengers on the Rosslare line have to stand for a substantial part of their journey - oh, that's right some cretin forgot to include Selective Door Opening as part of the specifications for the 22000s which means we are condemned to having 3-piece sets for the next xxx years. :rolleyes:

The SDO was a massive oversight alright. But one thing to take into consideration is that a 3 car 22 has more seats than a 4 car 29 but the 29 has alot more standing room. The 22s can operate as 4 and 5 car sets as was shown with set 33 or 37, can't remember when one car had to be removed for fire damage and another in a shunting derailment accident. It would be messy from an operational stand point of making up custom formation sizes in depots with the semi permanent couplers but it can be done.

The tender for fitting SDO to the 22s was put out some time ago and there has been no news since. They should fit it to the 29s too while they are at it.

end of the road · 22-08-2012 4:24pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I had seen a 3 car 22000 set operating from Connolly to Wexford just before 6pm yesterday evening at Dun Laoghaire.

which is a service such rolling stock is designed for.

end of the road · 22-08-2012 4:29pm

if you think sitting on a 29 k to maynooth is bad spair a thought for those who had to put up with them on the rosslare line along with 2800s and earlier 2700s. while the 29s are my favourite commuter railcar theirs only so long you can spend traveling on them as their just not designed for such routes. the 22000s are intercity railcars designed for intercity, regional, and long distance commuter routes which killdare and maynooth aren't. i get why their used on the killdare route but extending the krp to killdare and better use of it would remove the need to use them for such short distances but we are where we are.

end of the road · 22-08-2012 4:35pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They should fit it to the 29s too while they are at it.

you think so? i suppose in cases where they work in 8 car formations it could be needed but i'd say all the platforms on the routes where they work are long enough to take them?

Jamie2k9 · 22-08-2012 7:14pm

The 22s can operate as 4 and 5 car sets as was shown with set 33 or 37, can't remember when one car had to be removed for fire damage and another in a shunting derailment accident

Almost sure that 22037 didn't operate as a 5 car. It was 22033 and it was only a short time and the set was completly removed from service due to breaking issues as most carrages have different breaking systems.

Captain Chaos · 22-08-2012 9:14pm

end of the road wrote: »

you think so? i suppose in cases where they work in 8 car formations it could be needed but i'd say all the platforms on the routes where they work are long enough to take them?

Fitting them with SDO would be handy for when they have to work the Rosslare service or cover for a 22 set, there are a few stops that are not long enough for an 8 car formation. A 4 car 29 at crush load all the way to Rosslare must be hellish.

Captain Chaos · 22-08-2012 9:18pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Almost sure that 22037 didn't operate as a 5 car. It was 22033 and it was only a short time and the set was completly removed from service due to breaking issues as most carrages have different breaking systems.

Yep you are right. 33 had fire damage to one car while set 37 that derailed had two or 3 damaged cars and one was a driving end unit so no way could it stay in service.

That is odd about the braking system. I'm not to well up on the 22's specs though.

end of the road · 22-08-2012 10:11pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Fitting them with SDO would be handy for when they have to work the Rosslare service or cover for a 22 set, there are a few stops that are not long enough for an 8 car formation.

true, your right, all though i don't think an 8 car 29 k has ever operated the rosslare line, always been 4 car.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

A 4 car 29 at crush load all the way to Rosslare must be hellish.

well even when not at crush load its hellish as their uncomfortable, theirs a lovely growl off the engines though so that passes the time. i'd say we've more or less said bye bye to them now apart from 1 service maybe.

Jamie2k9 · 22-08-2012 10:18pm

true, your right, all though i don't think an 8 car 29 k has ever operated the rosslare line, always been 4 car.

Think a few stops are to short for a 8 car 2900

end of the road · 22-08-2012 10:24pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Think a few stops are to short for a 8 car 2900

thats what i meant by (true, your right) replying to the previous post, but thanks anyway.

22000 on the Maynooth commuter service

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