Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Does McGuinness have any chance given the Indo's campaign against him?

Options
1356789

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    Teclo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 496 ✭✭Teclo


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Boards is awash these days with people who've never voted SF before but are voting for MMG for president. :cool:

    Eoghan Harris makes it more tempting.... but must resist :)


  • Options
    #63
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    The Minstrel wrote: »
    Of course it's a rag - it certainly wouldn't be the thinking-man's newspaper.

    Jesus Christ, could you be any more superciliously condescending??
    However, there's no denying that the side backed by the Indo usually wins an election. Bertie had them in his pocket. Getting the Indo on-side is a major step towards electoral success, that's why you would have to say McGuinness is doomed to failure

    SF have only ever had low support in the Republic. Their social policies and the fact that many of the population are appalled by their past ensures this, not the coverage of the Indo.


  • Options
    #64
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Einhard wrote: »


    SF have only ever had low support in the Republic. Their social policies and the fact that many of the population are appalled by their past ensures this, not the coverage of the Indo.

    Can you eat internet posts? :D


  • Options
    #65
    The Minstrel
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭The Minstrel


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    I notice you didn't object to the person on your side of the debate who suggested that MMG was practically the head of state in NI, but you do object and sneer at the person who points out that he isn't. How odd. Your problem with 'parochialism' seems to be a little inconsistent.

    Monty - I'm impartial on this one. You are correct he is not the head of state in NI. I think the poster's point was that MCG is a joint-leader of the assembly, and, as such, a decision-maker in NI.
    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    At a guess, I'd say the answers will break down more or less exactly as you'd expect, with SF supporters saying he probably would be in front, and those who aren't SF supporters saying he probably wouldn't be.
    Leaving the party politics aside for a moment... In the absence of an Irish Independent campaign against MMCG, my opinion is that he would be ahead. It reinforces the point that the Independent is the true arbiter of elections in Ireland.
    Einhard wrote: »
    I'm sorry Minstrel, but you yourself derailed any notion of debate by unilaterally determining that the Indo is biased against McGuinness, and banning any dissent. It's as if I set up a thread on the basis of MMG being a murderer, and scolded anyone who expressed a contrary opinion.
    No, I'm not accusing the Indo of anything. Like many national newspapers across Europe, the Independent has a defined political bias. I don't think your comparison is valid. The Indo isn't a "paper of record" and is free to nail its colours to the mast. I think it's fair to say that the Indo is distinctly anti-MMcG, as is their perogative.
    Teclo wrote: »
    Eoghan Harris makes it more tempting.... but must resist :)
    In the original post I raised the point of the Indo & Belfast Telegraph being owned by the same group. Eoghan Harris is a Belfast Telegraph columnist. Both newspapers share columnists, e.g. Fionnan Sheehan etc.


  • Options
    #66
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Can you eat internet posts? :D

    I could, but talking bout SF makes me lose my appetite!!:p


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,103 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    ILikeBananas wrote: »
    The Sunday Independent's coverage of MMG the past three weeks has been pathetic. I mean it was bad enough 2 weeks ago but at least he was still in with a chance then. I don't see the point of it this week. They are flogging a dead horse.

    At this stage of the campaign it's blatantly obvious that it is a two horse race. I would therefore have expected the bulk of the election coverage to be about Sean Gallagher and Michael D. Higgins.


    Steady on, that's the todays' irish red c poll outcome your taking as gospel sampled before the last interviews, MG is by no means out and this is by no means a 2 horse race.
    The Journal.ie Poll has Martin ahead and so had the breakingnews.ie one.

    The lack of a poll on the Irish Independent website says a lot, wouldn't go down well if their own readers didn't agree with them.

    I think Mc Guinness does still stand a chance as there are 703396 people every day who read some other newspaper.

    These are the most recent circulation figures for the daily papers:

    Irish Independent 134228
    Irish Examiner 43390
    The Irish Times 100951
    Irish Daily Star 87121
    Irish Daily Mirror 61998
    The Irish Sun 79893
    Irish Daily Mail 51072


  • Options
    #68
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Einhard wrote: »
    I could, but talking bout SF makes me lose my appetite!!:p

    You must be fading away to nothing then! ;)


  • Options
    #69
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    You must be fading away to nothing then! ;)

    The new SF diet! Gives another meaning to them "disappearing" people!


  • Options
    #70
    ILikeBananas
    Registered Users Posts: 785 ✭✭✭ILikeBananas


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Boards is awash these days with people who've never voted SF before but are voting for MMG for president. :cool:

    Well Monty, I never said I was voting for MMG. I'm not. So :cool: yourself.

    I do not like Sinn Fein. I don't like their lowest common denominator populist politics and I don't like their arrogance.

    However, I just think it's absolutely ridiculous for the largest circulation Sunday newspaper to devote such a massive effort to undermine the campaign of someone who's already dead in the water.

    It's also quite convenient that they've practically ignored the surge of the pseudo-FF candidate especially given their bias to that party in the past. I guess after their cheerleading of Norris they don't want to give him the kiss of death.


  • Options
    #71
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Einhard wrote: »
    The new SF diet! Gives another meaning to them "disappearing" people!

    You're a gag. :rolleyes::D


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    ILikeBananas
    Registered Users Posts: 785 ✭✭✭ILikeBananas


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I think Mc Guinness does still stand a chance as there are 703396 people every day who read some other newspaper.

    MMG is transfer repellent though. In fact the ironic thing about the Spindo's campaign is that they just might increase the numers of 2's and 3's that he may get from voters through mis-guided sympathy.


  • Options
    #73
    PARKHEAD67
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭PARKHEAD67


    Sully wrote: »
    Its all balanced out with the amount of shinners who come online in all shapes and disguises to talk him up.
    Ha ha. Typical crap from people who dont understand what Catholic people (with no IRA involvement) had to put up with back in Martins day. If you grew up in 70's and 80's Derry, you wouldnt be half as smarmy.


  • Options
    #74
    The Minstrel
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭The Minstrel


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Steady on, that's the todays' irish red c poll outcome your taking as gospel sampled before the last interviews, MG is by no means out and this is by no means a 2 horse race.
    The Journal.ie Poll has Martin ahead and so had the breakingnews.ie one.

    The lack of a poll on the Irish Independent website says a lot, wouldn't go down well if their own readers didn't agree with them.

    I think Mc Guinness does still stand a chance as there are 703396 people every day who read some other newspaper.

    These are the most recent circulation figures for the daily papers:

    Irish Independent 134228
    Irish Examiner 43390
    The Irish Times 100951
    Irish Daily Star 87121
    Irish Daily Mirror 61998
    The Irish Sun 79893
    Irish Daily Mail 51072
    Interesting post. IMO, though, no candidate can survive the sort of onslaught that the Independent has run against MMcG. It just seems to be relentless.

    Perhaps we are too quick to write Norris off also?

    What does surprise me is the level of support for Gallagher. Having him win it would be akin to having a Fianna Fail Trojan Horse in the Aras. We all jeered Micheal Martin for his perceived weakness in failing to put a candidate forward, but a Sean Gallagher win could be a masterstroke on the part of Micheal Martin.


  • Options
    #75
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    The Minstrel wrote: »
    Interesting post. IMO, though, no candidate can survive the sort of onslaught that the Independent has run against MMcG. It just seems to be relentless.

    TBH, I'd assume that the people who buy the Sindo were always going to be unlikely to vote for McGuinness. As for the Indo, I honestly don't think it's been at all extreme in its bias. There's certainly an anti-McGuinness slant to the paper, but it's not extreme. As I pointed out, it devoted a mid page spread to both pr- and anti- McGuinness arguments from in-house columnists.


  • Options
    #76
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,103 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    The Minstrel wrote: »
    Interesting post. IMO, though, no candidate can survive the sort of onslaught that the Independent has run against MMcG. It just seems to be relentless.

    Perhaps we are too quick to write Norris off also?

    What does surprise me is the level of support for Gallagher. Having him win it would be akin to having a Fianna Fail Trojan Horse in the Aras. We all jeered Micheal Martin for his perceived weakness in failing to put a candidate forward, but a Sean Gallagher win could be a masterstroke on the part of Micheal Martin.

    He survived taking on the British Army i'm sure he can handle the the independent.

    Norris and Dana probably won't hit the quota and will probably drop out this week.

    I can't see the people putting Gallagher in power, the ff vote is not that strong, the republican vote on the other hand...!


  • Options
    #77
    celticcrash
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭celticcrash


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Maybe he meant the real one ?

    Poor Liam was left out in the cold.


  • Options
    #78
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I think the MMG/SF approach the press handling has contributed hugely to this issue.

    Take his teams approach to a Sindo journalist and post show confrtontation with Miriam.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/presidential-election/mcguinness-denies-row-with-rtersquos-orsquocallaghan-brands-debate-trial-by-television-2904839.html


  • Options
    #79
    Hannibal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭Hannibal


    The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »
    In our law, and most laws, a person is as guilty of murder even if they did not pull the trigger or press the button for the bomb themselves but planned the murder and had some hand in it.

    McGuinness rose through the ranks of the PIRA to its highest levels according to pretty much anyone. Someone at such a high level would have been privy to huge amounts of information and planning of activities such as murder and bombings.

    He was caught with explosives and bullets in the early 70s, what was this for?
    Being accused by a tv presenter of murdering someone and actually murdering someone is completely different. There is no proof to suggest that MMcG ever murdered someone or has been involved in ordering or planning the deaths of innocent people.

    I have seen him described as IRA chief of staff by newspapers during the course of this election but other information suggests that Seán Mac Stíofán, Joe Cahill, Seámus Twomey, Ivor Bell and Kevin McKenna were at the helm for practically the whole period of the Troubles.

    He said he left in 1974 after reflecting on the struggle in prison, and you said he was caught with explosives etc in.... the early 70's which reinforces exactly what MMcG was saying.
    todolist wrote: »
    McGuinness is a thug.Adams is a thug.They condoned and explained away murders.The south with their cults of Collins/De Valera inspired those Northern thugs.Collins and De Valera were murderous gunman.How can Fine Gael criticize the monster they created?
    What really inspired "those northern thugs" was brutality of the oppressive regime in the north which they lived under. There was an anti-catholic fascist system in place which treated them as second class citizens and had a manipulated voting system which insured that the ruling protestants always kept a comfortable majority.

    Fine Gael had no problem twice running Seán Mac Eoin in presidential elections in 1945 and 1959. Unlike MMcG there is actual proof that he murdered people and directed others to do the same. Enda Kenny has a picture of Michael Collins hanging over his desk and he was pretty much the architect of modern guerrilla warfare.

    Why don't the Labour party divulge exactly the role of Gilmore, Rabbitte and De Rossa in the Workers Party and Official IRA.


  • Options
    #80
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Dotsey wrote: »
    Being accused by a tv presenter of murdering someone and actually murdering someone is completely different. There is no proof to suggest that MMcG ever murdered someone or has been involved in ordering or planning the deaths of innocent people.

    The problem with this is that your definition of innocent and someone else's definition of innocent might be very different. Can we at least agree that he was certainly involved in participating in, planning or ordering the killing of some people? Or are we going to maintain the notion that he was in charge of the IRA creche?
    Dotsey wrote: »
    Fine Gael had no problem twice running Seán Mac Eoin in presidential elections in 1945 and 1959. Unlike MMcG there is actual proof that he murdered people and directed others to do the same.
    I can assure you that I wouldn't have voted for him either, if that's any good to you.


  • Options
    #81
    Wider Road
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Wider Road


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Dotsey wrote: »
    Being accused by a tv presenter of murdering someone and actually murdering someone is completely different. There is no proof to suggest that MMcG ever murdered someone or has been involved in ordering or planning the deaths of innocent people.

    The problem with this is that your definition of innocent and someone else's definition of innocent might be very different. Can we at least agree that he was certainly involved in participating in, planning or ordering the killing of some people? Or are we going to maintain the notion that he was in charge of the IRA creche?
    Dotsey wrote: »
    Fine Gael had no problem twice running Seán Mac Eoin in presidential elections in 1945 and 1959. Unlike MMcG there is actual proof that he murdered people and directed others to do the same.
    I can assure you that I wouldn't have voted for him either, if that's any good to you.



    What's your opinion on a present govt employee being released on a technical issue, rather than serving time after being convicted of murder?
    You can't have it both ways.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Wider Road wrote: »
    What's your opinion on a present govt employee being released on a technical issue, rather than serving time after being convicted of murder?
    You can't have it both ways.
    I can't have what both ways? :confused:

    Re. Mr. Kathleen Lynch - if he was guilty, he certainly should have served all the time he was due. But under the GFA, he probably would only have served a couple of years anyway, no?


  • Options
    #83
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    Unfortunately, what could have been an interesting thread/discussion on the role of the media in this election, has descended into the usual entrenched positions and the same tired arguments on BOTH sides.

    We do not need another thread around the issues in general of the MMG campaign and his past. If tomorrow morning, thats the line this thread continues down, then I'll be closing it.

    Cheers

    DrG


  • Options
    #84
    Wider Road
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Wider Road


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Wider Road wrote: »
    What's your opinion on a present govt employee being released on a technical issue, rather than serving time after being convicted of murder?
    You can't have it both ways.
    I can't have what both ways? :confused:

    Re. Mr. Kathleen Lynch - if he was guilty, he certainly should have served all the time he was due. But under the GFA, he probably would only have served a couple of years anyway, no?



    Kathleen is not a mans name, it's Bernard Lynch that's the story, remember!!
    The Mail on Sunday first reported the story & then had a follow up with Bernard's employment by the current govt.
    We owe the media & especially The Mail On Sunday a great thank you for this story.
    It tells us about a murder in 1975 & a conviction in 76. Why Monty says that Bernard Lynch would only serve a couple of years in jail under the GFA is beyond me, considering it came into effect in 1999, (I think).
    The media has done us a service here.


  • Options
    #85
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Wider Road wrote: »
    Kathleen is not a mans name, it's Bernard Lynch that's the story, remember!!
    The Mail on Sunday first reported the story & then had a follow up with Bernard's employment by the current govt.
    We owe the media & especially The Mail On Sunday a great thank you for this story.
    It tells us about a murder in 1975 & a conviction in 76. Why Monty says that Bernard Lynch would only serve a couple of years in jail under the GFA is beyond me, considering it came into effect in 1999, (I think).
    The media has done us a service here.

    Wasn't his conviction overturned?


  • Options
    #86
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    todolist wrote: »
    McGuinness is a thug.Adams is a thug.They condoned and explained away murders.The south with their cults of Collins/Dev Valera inspired those Northern thugs.Collins and Dev Valera were murderous gunman.How can Fine Gael criticize the monster they created?

    So its all one sided in your world, Yea ?


  • Options
    #87
    Wider Road
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Wider Road


    Einhard wrote: »
    Wider Road wrote: »
    Kathleen is not a mans name, it's Bernard Lynch that's the story, remember!!
    The Mail on Sunday first reported the story & then had a follow up with Bernard's employment by the current govt.
    We owe the media & especially The Mail On Sunday a great thank you for this story.
    It tells us about a murder in 1975 & a conviction in 76. Why Monty says that Bernard Lynch would only serve a couple of years in jail under the GFA is beyond me, considering it came into effect in 1999, (I think).
    The media has done us a service here.

    Wasn't his conviction overturned?



    Not because of innocence.
    Read the story again & reply.
    Why has Kathleen (wife) & Ciaran (brother) no comment to make on the matter of murder?
    Their silence is deafening!!
    Bernard is now employed by the current govt!!
    Are you happy with that?


  • Options
    #88
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Einhard wrote: »
    Wasn't his conviction overturned?
    Astatement (which may have been beaten out of him by the Gardaí, not unusual during the troubles) was taken after the period they were allowed hold him expired. The Judge then deemed it inadmissible so the conviction was quashed.


  • Options
    #89
    The Scientician
    Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭The Scientician


    The Sindo has always been virulently anti-SF. I don't read the paper myself but it's plainly evident that its coverage differs from other Irish newspapers. It also hides behind printing its OP/ED piece titles on the cover, so even if there's no news they can stir shít. It's plain as day, I don't think I'd need to do a content analysis to confirm.

    I often wish there were an Irish equivalent of the Guardian, with fewer spelling errors. The Indo is a rag but the Irish Times is too dry, it can be a hard slog getting through it.


  • Options
    #90
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    The more people talk him down the more I want to vote for him. This spin has to stop youbhave been found out.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Hootanany wrote: »
    The more people talk him down the more I want to vote for him. This spin has to stop youbhave been found out.

    Are you not a SF supporter, and have never voted for SF before, by any chance? :)


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement