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01-11-2011, 20:26   #196
Stove Fan
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Originally Posted by kevfal0 View Post
Hi,
i am just about to remove my 5 year old Aarrow TF90b stove because it started leaking from the boiler and was wondering if anyone could recommend any good alternatives that have the same output. I will not buy another one of these because i believe they are badly designed with too many "ash traps" inside. Suggestions please

thanks

Hi Sorry to hear this but I have heard that it can happen with any boiler stove. Especially if the boiler is undersized or there isn't no pipe stat to control the pump so gets plenty of condensation inside the stove on the surface of the boiler.

Unfortunately arrow TF90 is the largest boiler stove that I know. Do you know your total heating load as it may be possible to buy a lower output boiler stove thats a different manufacturer.

There is the broseley hercules 30B 8kw to room though. The TF90 was 4.5kw 8inch flue on the broseley.
http://www.broseleyfires.com/Multifu...ler-Stove.html

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Last edited by Stove Fan; 02-11-2011 at 21:19.
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01-11-2011, 21:34   #197
avfc1874
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hearth question

hi we're getting a boiler stove and was wondering how much bigger should the hearth be then the legs of the boiler front and sides thanks
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01-11-2011, 22:03   #198
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hi we're getting a boiler stove and was wondering how much bigger should the hearth be then the legs of the boiler front and sides thanks
150mm either side of the stove and 300mm infront is the building regs standard size.

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02-11-2011, 10:43   #199
clonshanny
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I couldn't really say as the plumber has seen the installation. You say you have gas heating? If this is mains gas this would be cheaper to run than a boiler stove burning wood or smokeless fuel. If it's LPG tank gas then yes the stove would be cheaper to run once the large outlay of the stove installation had paid for itself.

If it is mains gas I would only advice a non boiler stove as by the time you have bought the stove, flue it could still cost 5k. It would take many years to pay for the stove installation . Even then you would only save the plumbing costs.

With regards to plumbing the cylinder in on the 3rd floor yes a pump could be used controlled by a cylinder stat providing that if there was a powercut that several upstairs radiators would work on gravity circulation to dissipate the heat from the boiler stove.

Sorry to be so negative but I have to give you a realistic and balanced view.


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Thanks Stove Fan.
Considering the price of copper and what it would cost to plumb the thing, it's probably easier and wiser to go for the non boiler model and just use the mains gas to heat the upstairs rads.
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02-11-2011, 11:28   #200
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thanks Stove Fan
I have a pipe stat installed about 2 foot away from the output of the stove. this is not the only issue i had with the stove. the side supports inside also are rotten - think because of ash left sitting around the "toblerone" bars. The grate probably needs to be cleaned out thoroughly each week but to do this you would need to pull everthing that's inside of it out - poor design imo. I will know for again what ashes can do if not cleaned out daily.

I am looking at the Glenmore 30kw and Blacksmith furnace 30kw at the minute - have you any experience with these and how do they compare with the TF90b

thanks again
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02-11-2011, 14:55   #201
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thanks Stove Fan
I have a pipe stat installed about 2 foot away from the output of the stove. this is not the only issue i had with the stove. the side supports inside also are rotten - think because of ash left sitting around the "toblerone" bars. The grate probably needs to be cleaned out thoroughly each week but to do this you would need to pull everthing that's inside of it out - poor design imo. I will know for again what ashes can do if not cleaned out daily.

I am looking at the Glenmore 30kw and Blacksmith furnace 30kw at the minute - have you any experience with these and how do they compare with the TF90b

thanks again
Hi I don't have any direct feedback but from viewing the photo and specs they are very much the same although both boilers 2kw less powerfull. Although I prefer the looks of theGlenmore. It looks very solid. The outputs are the same for each. The only real differences between these two stoves and your TF90 is that your TF90 only produced up to 4.5kw to the room and these two new stoves produce 8.5kw. If you think your room can take this heat then this is ok but otherwise it could be too hot so only have a smaller fire and so not enough of a fire going to heat all of the rads.

The other difference was the flue sizes. Your TF90 is 150mm and so is the same size as the Furnace. The Glenmore is a larger flue size 7 inches.

It really depends if your flue has a stainless steel liner already installed in 150mm as then you would be best to buy a stove with a 150mm flue outlet.

If it's a clay lined chimney though and were fitting the glenmore you would still need to replace the 6 inch flue pipes to the larger 7 inch size to the clay liner.

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Last edited by Stove Fan; 02-11-2011 at 15:06.
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02-11-2011, 14:57   #202
Rain_Dog_Brian
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As said cladding anything combustible is a definate no-no.

You can glue or screw it down but not to anything flammable.

The stove installation instructions will have minimum clearance distances to wooden or combustible items. What stove is it? Any pic of the fireplace?

I gather this fire is being inset into an opening? Any timber studs or any other combustible materials would need to be removed. If you are building a fake chimney breast make it using a metal rail walling system and clad it in scamolex or vermiculite board. The opening size would still need to be the size below for building regs. If you opening is more narrow buy a smaller stove.

The opening width has to have clearance of 150mm either side of the stove and 300mm above for building regs, this only applies to openings that are masonry built or built using inflammable materials.

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Thanks Stove Fan.
Photos attached if you wouldn't mind having a look.
Following the original photo, the builder built a block support behind the metal support pole for structural support. Then he put up pink Fireboard around the main brick chimney breast using timber studs for certain areas. You can see the timber on the third photo, up sides and across top of recess.

The Vega 100 (Penman collection) 5kW non-boiler multi fuel stove is ordered but I don't have installation guide yet but want to have place ready for installation.

Considering:
-Take wood studs out
-For recess, stick Scamolex board to LHS Block, back concrete, RHS bricks

-But I don't know whether I can keep the pink fireboard on my chimney breast, all the way to the recess, and if so how to afix fireboard to the edge of the recess...

Grateful for any better options.
Brian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg original situation.jpg (1.30 MB, 299 views)
File Type: jpg full.jpg (225.4 KB, 269 views)
File Type: jpg inside.jpg (1.66 MB, 277 views)
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02-11-2011, 15:02   #203
goat2
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i am on the lookout for a stove with a boiler that can carry four radiators, two of then small double, one big and one medium double, what stove should i be looking at
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02-11-2011, 15:10   #204
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i am on the lookout for a stove with a boiler that can carry four radiators, two of then small double, one big and one medium double, what stove should i be looking at
Could you give me the measurements of the rads please

The room size where the stove is to be installed? Insulation levels?

On the stove purchase costs what is your budget?

Has it got to fit inside a certain opening?

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02-11-2011, 15:26   #205
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Thanks Stove Fan.
Photos attached if you wouldn't mind having a look.
Following the original photo, the builder built a block support behind the metal support pole for structural support. Then he put up pink Fireboard around the main brick chimney breast using timber studs for certain areas. You can see the timber on the third photo, up sides and across top of recess.

The Vega 100 (Penman collection) 5kW non-boiler multi fuel stove is ordered but I don't have installation guide yet but want to have place ready for installation.

Considering:
-Take wood studs out
-For recess, stick Scamolex board to LHS Block, back concrete, RHS bricks

-But I don't know whether I can keep the pink fireboard on my chimney breast, all the way to the recess, and if so how to afix fireboard to the edge of the recess...

Grateful for any better options.
Brian
Hi, what your builder has done is a fire hazard As you have mentioned is to remove all the timber and pink plasterboard from the fireplace back to the bare brick/ block and then render and skim the front face of the chimney and side and then cut scamolex to line the inside and glue it to the wall with suitable adhesive.

If you don't want to use scamolex you could get a plasterer to render and plaster the inside as well. The render inside could crack with the heat but its cheaper than buying scamolex.

I suggest to get a plasterer in to render and plaster it out after removing the timber and pink plasterboard.

Is the wall on the right of the picture a solid or hollow wall?

I liked the old stove I bet it was rather hot in there.

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02-11-2011, 21:04   #206
Rain_Dog_Brian
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Thanks for clear advice StoveFan.
You must have some patience to put up with amateurs panicking here about your area of expertise. If there was a donate button, I would.

Surprised that all my pink fireboard has to go as it was a HETAC installer who advised me to line chimney breast with pink fireboard and then call him for stove installation. In fairness he never mentioned wooden studs.

Only lit the old stove once, and if you think the current situation is a fire hazard, you should have seen the wooden trim around the old stove!!

THe wall on the right is partition hollow wall. What's my next problem? (hearth touching? i thought it was far enough away from stove )
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02-11-2011, 21:05   #207
creedp
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Hi The only models that charnwood do with the external air kit are the Cove and Island Range. Their boiler stoves cant have this feature.

See:
http://www.charnwood.com/range/stove...-manifold.aspx

I will see if there are others

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Q for Stovefan again Im afraid. I was seriously looking at a Vision 500 with external air and flexible flue, etc, etc. I thought we were both agreed on this but now my wife went to see a guy about a granite hearth and he was also Charwood supplier and is now very interested in the Island 8kw stove. It is slightly cheaper that the Clearview but the guy is insisting that the flexi flue is a waste of time in a new clay lined chimney so all in all the Charnwood is looking good value. My simple Q is ,of 2 stoves mentioned which one would you prefer and I know this has been done to death but in a new internal clay lined chimney that is approx 5m high (single story room) would not going with a flexi liner be a bad idea. Also the Island has a double door which I thought was bad for air tightness and I want a stove that is as airtight as possible. Does the Clearview trump the Island on this front??

Again I was pretty well sold on the clearview with flexi but I am in danger of being usurped because of a good value granite hearth.

Advice greatly appreciated!!

Last edited by creedp; 02-11-2011 at 21:08.
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02-11-2011, 21:19   #208
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Thanks for clear advice StoveFan.
You must have some patience to put up with amateurs panicking here about your area of expertise. If there was a donate button, I would.

Surprised that all my pink fireboard has to go as it was a HETAC installer who advised me to line chimney breast with pink fireboard and then call him for stove installation. In fairness he never mentioned wooden studs.

Only lit the old stove once, and if you think the current situation is a fire hazard, you should have seen the wooden trim around the old stove!!

THe wall on the right is partition hollow wall. What's my next problem? (hearth touching? i thought it was far enough away from stove )
Hi thanks for the kind comments As far as I am aware the pink plasterboard isn't totally fire retardant. I think it's only designed to stop the spread of flames for 30 minutes. I would get some further advice from a stove installer/ fireplace shop. I have seen it in builders merchants and it still seems coated in paper?
The wall should not be an issue so long as the stove is the correct distance away as stated in the stoves installation instructions.

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02-11-2011, 21:34   #209
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Q for Stovefan again Im afraid. I was seriously looking at a Vision 500 with external air and flexible flue, etc, etc. I thought we were both agreed on this but now my wife went to see a guy about a granite hearth and he was also Charwood supplier and is now very interested in the Island 8kw stove. It is slightly cheaper that the Clearview but the guy is insisting that the flexi flue is a waste of time in a new clay lined chimney so all in all the Charnwood is looking good value. My simple Q is ,of 2 stoves mentioned which one would you prefer and I know this has been done to death but in a new internal clay lined chimney that is approx 5m high (single story room) would not going with a flexi liner be a bad idea. Also the Island has a double door which I thought was bad for air tightness and I want a stove that is as airtight as possible. Does the Clearview trump the Island on this front??

Again I was pretty well sold on the clearview with flexi but I am in danger of being usurped because of a good value granite hearth.

Advice greatly appreciated!!
The vision and charnwood are both excellent stoves. The island is one of charnwoods premium range and is excellent. It's really deciding on the one you like most and fits your fireplace best.

As your chimney is only 5m heigh I would line it as it's a better job and makes cleaning the chimney easy. The problems with joining the stove flue pipe to a clay lined chimney is if the clay adapter can't seal you could get tarry condensation running down onto the stove. Fitting a liner avoids this problem. I would think the liner would be around 50 euro a metre. I would think fitting would take anywhere from 30mins to a few hours labour if the flue is straight.

www.whatstove.co.uk (The website seems down at the moment)

Here is a charnwood island alight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eR9ODEnNf0
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Last edited by Stove Fan; 02-11-2011 at 22:05.
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03-11-2011, 09:17   #210
LovelyHurlin
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Great thread, which I have gleaned tons of information off...so to start off, thanks to everyone!

I am in the middle of researching which stove to get. I am looking for:
- Non-boiler, multifuel stove, around 8-9kw output, traditional enough design. The room is a 50 sq metre open plan kitchen/dining/living area. It's a new extension that is well insulated. Ceilings averaging about 2.5metres.

I have spoken to alot of different stove suppliers. The problem with alot of thes suppliers, I found, is that they act as agents to particular brands so their advice isn't exactly impartial!

To cut to the chase, I have gotten prices for the following models, all coming in at around €1250 delivered (not including flu or fitting).

Nestor Martin Harmony I
Stanford 80
Charnwood Country 8
Stovax Stockton 8

Any advice on the pros/cons for these models? I have checked whatstove.co.uk, but I was hoping for some first hand experience that anyone might have

I know some of these models are cast iron and some are steel, does this make a big difference durability/quality?

Thanks in advance,

LH.
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