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Internship scheme offers 5,000 work placements to people on the dole

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  • 29-06-2011 11:52am
    #1
    gonedrinking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0629/internship.html

    A National Internship Scheme has been launched by Taoiseach Enda Kenny in Dublin.
    The two-year JobBridge programme will offer work placements to 5,000 people who are on the Live Register.
    The jobs will be offered in a range of companies in the private, public, community and voluntary sector.
    So far 500 companies have expressed an interest in taking part and have offered 1,000 places.

    They include the Quinn Group, Smurfit Kappa, Mercury Engineering and Aer Lingus.
    The placements will last between six and nine months and participants will be paid €50 extra a week on top of their existing social welfare payments.
    They will retain all of their additional benefits and it is open to anyone who has been signing-on for at least three months.
    Companies offering places must have at least one full-time employee and the intern cannot displace an existing worker.
    Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton has said those availing of the initiative would not be exploited.

    The scheme begins on 1 July.
    The initiative has been welcomed by business groups Chambers Ireland and IBEC.
    Ian Talbot Chambers Ireland Chief Executive said: 'This will enable participants to gain invaluable work-place experience while also contributing to the operation of the business.
    'It is hoped that many of these companies will in turn be able to offer employment opportunities as result.'
    IBEC Director General Danny McCoy said it will be promoting the scheme among its members.
    Mr McCoy said: 'The scheme provides those seeking employment with the chance to gain valuable work experience, maintain close links with the labour market and enhance their skills. We strongly support it.'



    I'm no fan of FG but this seems like a very good idea. People on the dole get valuable experience while companies get cheap labour. Although from the article it sounds like the taxpayer is going to be paying the intern the extra 50 euro a week, but surely this should be paid by the company, and even better, the company should also be making a small contribution to the employee's normal dole amount so the taxpayer is slightly better off. Also, I hope struggling companies and companies only making small profits get preference over companies making large profits.


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    #2
    wild_cat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    I hope they stop companies abusing it. The fas system already in place is rife with businesses trying to pull a fast one to get cheap labour.


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    #3
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    I take the following comment from Journal.ie:
    As a HR professional and someone who’s actively involved in the world of recruitment I have to agree with the Union of Students in Ireland. Their concerns are completely valid. As much as I agree with the valuable experience that could be potentially gained, I’ve seen many businesses fall to temptation and manipulate such schemes. In the US, corporate culture has made internships the norm with large organisations accessing these schemes as a cost savings activity. Bottom line is, if a person add value to a business, they should be reward and recognised accordingly.

    I guess it’s nice to see an effort is being made to address the employment access bottleneck we’re currently experiencing but disappointing to see a reversion in government thinking. Little creativity and no real structures or guidelines to assess what justifies a valid internship. It’s short term-ism at its best! Gain a boost in productivity and a relatively low cost today, suffer the consequence of an unequal employee base and employment complacency tomorrow.
    http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-is-it-right-to-offer-unpaid-internships-165656-Jun2011/?voted=1

    The chap that wrote that, sums up the situation well for me.
    ...That and the government can for PR purposes, play around as to whats accurate 'unemployment figures'.


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    #4
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    gonedrinking wrote: »

    I'm no fan of FG but this seems like a very good idea. People on the dole get valuable experience while companies get cheap labour. Although from the article it sounds like the taxpayer is going to be paying the intern the extra 50 euro a week, but surely this should be paid by the company, and even better, the company should also be making a small contribution to the employee's normal dole amount so the taxpayer is slightly better off. Also, I hope struggling companies and companies only making small profits get preference over companies making large profits.

    Im all for allowing internships, but if you were to get the company to pay the extra 50 euro, and get them to pay directly towards the persons dole, it wouldn't be an internship, so much but a low paid job. What does that say about our minimum wage?


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    #5
    gonedrinking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭gonedrinking


    syklops wrote: »
    Im all for allowing internships, but if you were to get the company to pay the extra 50 euro, and get them to pay directly towards the persons dole, it wouldn't be an internship, so much but a low paid job. What does that say about our minimum wage?

    Well our minimum wage is way too high for a start, it makes our businesses uncompetitive and prevents job creation, so this is a good way around that problem.


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    #6
    strokemyclover
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭strokemyclover


    This is going to make looking for a job much harder than it already is and from my viewpoint it's already impossible 'in the current climate'. Also, there is no way is this going to be properly regulated.

    Time to leave Ireland, we're being governed by chimps.


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    #7
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Would work to some degree if irish employers weren't such c**ts

    Free disposable labour for IBEC from their buddies in FG, and labour will say nowt


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    #8
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    gonedrinking wrote: »
    Well our minimum wage is way too high for a start, it makes our businesses uncompetitive and prevents job creation, so this is a good way around that problem.

    A good way around the problem???

    The 'worker' isnt earning anything so isnt paying any tax on it, also the 'employer' isnt paying anyone so isnt paying any social insurance either. The company gets free labour while the taxpayer picks up the tab. Like I say I am all for internships, as they are a great way of gaining experience and showing a company how you work, but they are not a solution to a high minimum wage. The best way around a high minimum wage, is lowering it.


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    #9
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    As a person currently unemployed, i welcome this. Having a gap in your unemployment history looks bad. I hate going to interviews and having to explain gaps. You do wonder if HR actually realise that a lot of people are struggling to get jobs at the moment. I hope to get an internship and possibly even a new career route.


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    #10
    chunkylover4
    Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭chunkylover4


    syklops wrote: »
    Im all for allowing internships, but if you were to get the company to pay the extra 50 euro, and get them to pay directly towards the persons dole, it wouldn't be an internship, so much but a low paid job. What does that say about our minimum wage?

    1) If a worker on the minimum wage produces less in terms of value than they are worth, employer either have to cut back on staff - resulting in unemployment or increase the price of their product making them less competitive and creating inflation
    2) If there were no minimum wage and you can not negotiate a price that is acceptable for you to work on go on the ****ing dole, the state should look after you as you are then not able to earn enough to support yourself.


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    #11
    gonedrinking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭gonedrinking


    strokemyclover wrote: »
    This is going to make looking for a job much harder than it already is and from my viewpoint it's already impossible 'in the current climate'. Also, there is no way is this going to be properly regulated.

    If its impossible to get a job already what could be your objection with this? Businesses can't create new jobs because they can't afford it. People out of uni are rotting away on the dole. At the moment no ones winning.

    strokemyclover wrote: »
    Time to leave Ireland, we're being governed by chimps.

    Unfortunately this option isn't really open to recent graduates who are now on the dole, they can't really go abroad and say to employers "eh yeah I've no work experience but shure gimme a job anyway." But if they had some work experience that would be a different matter.....


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    #12
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Looking at the scheme and the nature of the (business) beast for the sake of savings and profits, I can only see this as eventually possibly going the same way as other countries that have tried it.


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    #13
    gonedrinking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭gonedrinking


    syklops wrote: »
    A good way around the problem???

    The 'worker' isnt earning anything so isnt paying any tax on it, also the 'employer' isnt paying anyone so isnt paying any social insurance either. The company gets free labour while the taxpayer picks up the tab. Like I say I am all for internships, as they are a great way of gaining experience and showing a company how you work, but they are not a solution to a high minimum wage. The best way around a high minimum wage, is lowering it.

    I was saying that if employers contributed to dole payments then that would be a good way around the problem and would be a win win situation for all involved


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    #14
    Gulliver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭Gulliver


    This is all fine and well if you get the full dole amount, but people are on different levels of benefit and that's going to create a disparity between people doing similar jobs.

    I fully agree with syklops in that this is a further burden on the taxpayer:
    Real job - person off live register saving the state money
    Sham job - person receives dole from state, company gets cheap work, government looks like it's doing something.

    Look at the sham that was WPP. One of the signs of craziness is doing the exact same thing twice and expecting a different outcome!


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    #15
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    It's a good move as it gives people the chance to get valuable experience and also be exposed to a potential new employer and impress them, resulting in a proper job.

    The potential for abuse is big because there will be many pricks viewing this as a source of cheap labour and making unreasonable demands of the interns.

    They need to prepare informational sessions for potential interns and employers alike, letting them know things like they cannot be asked to do overtime, work more than their set hours per week, etc etc etc.

    A specific service should also be set up for the interns so that if they're having an issue with an employer making unreasonable demands, they have someone in the department of social welfare that they can turn to so the internship can be terminated (if necessary) without affecting the person's entitlements.

    In fact, specific obligations to protect the interns should be put on the employers involved which can result in large fines if they are not followed through.

    I think it would also be fair to limit the hours to 25-30 hours per week. This would allow job seekers to continue to seek jobs and also make it clear that the scheme is not designed to be a "free workers" scheme to replace the need for proper paid staff.


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    #16
    gonedrinking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭gonedrinking


    Gulliver wrote: »

    I fully agree with syklops in that this is a further burden on the taxpayer:
    Real job - person off live register saving the state money
    Sham job - person receives dole from state, company gets cheap work, government looks like it's doing something.

    Not really. A company is only going to take an intern on if they add value to the company and therefore increase profits, which means increased tax take for this country.

    Also, I and lots of others have always wanted people on the dole to pay their way and be made to work for their money. So even if I have to give them an extra 50 quid a week it still makes me feel better to think they're not just at home scratching their hole while I fund their lifestyle.

    Make no mistake, Ireland is about to get a whole lot more competitive when this scheme is introduced.


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    #17
    chunkylover4
    Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭chunkylover4


    Gulliver wrote: »
    This is all fine and well if you get the full dole amount, but people are on different levels of benefit and that's going to create a disparity between people doing similar jobs.

    I fully agree with syklops in that this is a further burden on the taxpayer:
    Real job - person off live register saving the state money
    Sham job - person receives dole from state, company gets cheap work, government looks like it's doing something.

    Look at the sham that was WPP. One of the signs of craziness is doing the exact same thing twice and expecting a different outcome!

    It's not a sham job, the company will benefit from an extra employee which will in turn benefit the state as more tax is collected and the worker benfits from the experience and also from the fact they don't have to sit on their ass all day


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    #18
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    gonedrinking wrote: »
    Not really. A company is only going to take an intern on if they add value to the company and therefore increase profits, which means increased tax take for this country.

    Also, I and lots of others have always wanted people on the dole to pay their way and be made to work for their money. So even if I have to give them an extra 50 quid a week it still makes me feel better to think they're not just at home scratching their hole while I fund their lifestyle.

    Make no mistake, Ireland is about to get a whole lot more competitive when this scheme is introduced.

    I know there are gob$hites out there abusing the system, but for the vast majority of people on the dole, it isn't a 'lifestyle'.


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    #19
    Gulliver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭Gulliver


    gonedrinking wrote: »
    Not really. A company is only going to take an intern on if they add value to the company and therefore increase profits, which means increased tax take for this country.

    Also, I and lots of others have always wanted people on the dole to pay their way and be made to work for their money. So even if I have to give them an extra 50 quid a week it still makes me feel better to think they're not just at home scratching their hole while I fund their lifestyle.

    Make no mistake, Ireland is about to get a whole lot more competitive when this scheme is introduced.

    Don't get me wrong, I hope some good comes from it, but companies are going to abuse it. Extra worker for €50 a week and no PRSI to pay? Where do I sign?

    Jobs requiring training will be out as the placements only last 6/9 months, so training time would eat into that, especially if you have to divert an existing worker to do the training. This means that the experience or skills gathered in that time will be negligible.


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    #20
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Stupid idea tbh.

    It will be abused by smaller business who let staff go, change the T&C's of the position ever so slightly and then hire new people on this scheme.

    Now when people go on to FAS.ie half of the jobs will be those ridiculous ''WPP'' and the other half will be this crap.

    Eventually there'll be no normal jobs left! :rolleyes:


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    #21
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    I like this idea - sure these people will be paid 250ish - if you're on minimum wage you wouldnt be getting much more than this (35 * €8.65 = 302.75)

    Though crazy irish mentallity is thinking if you have a degree you should be making 30k.


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    #22
    Gulliver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭Gulliver


    chunkylover4 wrote: »
    It's not a sham job, the company will benefit from an extra employee which will in turn benefit the state as more tax is collected and the worker benfits from the experience and also from the fact they don't have to sit on their ass all day

    I can't see how there would be a tax take as they still receive dole whilst on Work Experience, the person will only be there for 6 to 9 months, so will not have hit full productivity by that time, the company will probably have to expend time (which is money) to do the training.

    The cost of the dole to the state and the extra €50 probably outweigh any benefit the participant would bring to society.


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    #23
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    This will absolutely be abused, there is no 'if' about it.

    I know having worked in the media sector in the UK, that the norm was to employ fully qualified people who had years of experience as interns and get them to work for free for as long as possible.

    Abuse of internships is rife across those kinds of industries and it would be a terrible shame to see it creeping in across other sectors through Government schemes.

    If this is going to work it will have to be policed VERY heavily with fines in the region of €25,000 per intern for any company abusing it e.g. laying off staff and replacing them with interns.


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    #24
    Gulliver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭Gulliver


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    I like this idea - sure these people will be paid 250ish - if you're on minimum wage you wouldnt be getting much more than this (35 * €8.65 = 302.75)

    Though crazy irish mentallity is thinking if you have a degree you should be making 30k.
    They're very close, with the benefits (medical card) tipping it to the placement scheme:

    Max dole is €188 (I think) + €50 is €238 into your hand, plus whatever benefits

    Working on minimum wage (35 * €8.65 = 302.75) you have to pay tax, prsi etc, so your take home is less. (I'm not even going to attempt to calculate it since they changed the tax system) Don't forget private health insurance.


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    #25
    MadameGascar
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭MadameGascar


    gonedrinking wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0629/internship.html

    A National Internship Scheme has been launched by Taoiseach Enda Kenny in Dublin.
    The two-year JobBridge programme will offer work placements to 5,000 people who are on the Live Register.
    The jobs will be offered in a range of companies in the private, public, community and voluntary sector.
    So far 500 companies have expressed an interest in taking part and have offered 1,000 places.

    They include the Quinn Group, Smurfit Kappa, Mercury Engineering and Aer Lingus.
    The placements will last between six and nine months and participants will be paid €50 extra a week on top of their existing social welfare payments.
    They will retain all of their additional benefits and it is open to anyone who has been signing-on for at least three months.
    Companies offering places must have at least one full-time employee and the intern cannot displace an existing worker.
    Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton has said those availing of the initiative would not be exploited.

    The scheme begins on 1 July.
    The initiative has been welcomed by business groups Chambers Ireland and IBEC.
    Ian Talbot Chambers Ireland Chief Executive said: 'This will enable participants to gain invaluable work-place experience while also contributing to the operation of the business.
    'It is hoped that many of these companies will in turn be able to offer employment opportunities as result.'
    IBEC Director General Danny McCoy said it will be promoting the scheme among its members.
    Mr McCoy said: 'The scheme provides those seeking employment with the chance to gain valuable work experience, maintain close links with the labour market and enhance their skills. We strongly support it.'



    I'm no fan of FG but this seems like a very good idea. People on the dole get valuable experience while companies get cheap labour. Although from the article it sounds like the taxpayer is going to be paying the intern the extra 50 euro a week, but surely this should be paid by the company, and even better, the company should also be making a small contribution to the employee's normal dole amount so the taxpayer is slightly better off. Also, I hope struggling companies and companies only making small profits get preference over companies making large profits.

    Im very intrested in this as I am doing part time college and on the dole while in need of work experience.
    Does anyone have any idea what kind of internships will be available?


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    #26
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Honest to God how lazy are some people -

    I work in a job that has no connection to my degree and get paid little under €400 a week before prsi and tax.

    I'd be tempted to leave my job and do one of these internships relitive to my degree, i may take a little pay drop but i'd be entitled to rent allownce and medical card.

    The goverment is too good to the un-employed, when the goverment does something people still want to sit dont want to do it, though im sure sitting on you ass on the dole for a year will make you more employable!!!!


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    #27
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    MadameGascar wrote: »
    ...Does anyone have any idea what kind of internships will be available?
    That will depend on the companies themselves which will apply for the scheme.
    The best route is to contact the necessary government body office nearest to you and ask if any have applied for recruits - thus you put your name forward, in return.


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    #28
    gonedrinking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭gonedrinking


    MadameGascar wrote: »
    Im very intrested in this as I am doing part time college and on the dole while in need of work experience.
    Does anyone have any idea what kind of internships will be available?

    http://www.jobbridge.ie/

    They'll appear on that site from 1st July


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    #29
    jonnny68
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    As a person currently unemployed, i welcome this. Having a gap in your unemployment history looks bad. I hate going to interviews and having to explain gaps. You do wonder if HR actually realise that a lot of people are struggling to get jobs at the moment. I hope to get an internship and possibly even a new career route.

    i can see your point, however everyone employers included are only too aware how bad this recession is and how little jobs there are so anyone with gaps on their CV is advised to put "any gaps on CV is due to unemployment because of recession" better to be honest.

    As regards these Internships, employers are going to abuse this big style, they will save a fortune employing someone with skills and 9 months later just let them go and get someone else, and €50 a week extra isn't worth a f**k, you'll spend half that on travel and some on lunches so your efectively working full time for your dole money so for me it's a total waste of time.


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    #30
    7sr2z3fely84g5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭7sr2z3fely84g5


    it's still massaging the unemployment figures,but still not enough places for mass unemployment.

    It might work well or might not,but i think some hurdles will be hit with the pyjamas wearing babymakers who want more allowance to pay for the creche?..


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    #31
    MadameGascar
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭MadameGascar


    I'm choosing to use my dole money to educate myself as there are no other options available for me apart from emigration.
    And there are a lot of people my age doing what I'm doing because they have, to not because they want to. Working for free and studying for a good degree, while job hunting, I don't think makes me particularly lazy.


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