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Freesat and Saorview in the one receiver - anything out there?

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  • 22-05-2011 4:32am
    #1
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,133 ✭✭✭✭


    I was thinking of buying a Humax HDR to pick up Freesat, and I also receive Saorview via my aerial.

    Was wondering if there is any receiver out there at present which will pick up both, and ideally, allow me to record.


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    #2
    stanley1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭stanley1


    Dreamboxes or Vu+duo can do it.


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    #3
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    There is no single PVR that is fully Freesat and Saorview 100% compatible. There are a number of options which have different levels of compatibility depending on price etc.
    Receiver: Dreambox DM8000
    Tuners: 2x DVB-S2 + optional DVB-T (x2) plugin
    7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
    Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
    Hardrive: Internal
    Price: €1000


    Receiver: AzBox Premium Plus
    Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
    7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
    Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
    Hardrive: Internal
    Price: €449


    Receiver: QBox HD
    Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T + optional plugin DVB-S2
    7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
    Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
    Hardrive: External
    Price: €449

    Receiver: QBox HD Mini
    Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
    7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
    Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
    Hardrive: External
    Price: €349

    Receiver: Vu+ Duo
    Tuners: 2x DVB-S2 + optional USB DVB-T
    7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
    Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
    Hardrive: Internal
    Price: €450


    Receiver: Vu+ Solo
    Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + optional USB DVB-T
    7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
    Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
    Hardrive: External
    Price: €350


    Receiver: Technomate TM-7100HD
    Tuners: 2x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
    7-day EPG for satellite: No
    Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
    Hardrive: Internal
    Price: €500


    Receiver: Dreambox DM800
    Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + optional USB DVB-T
    7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
    Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
    Hardrive: External
    Price: €399


    Receiver: Edision Argus mini 2 in 1
    Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
    7-day EPG for satellite: No
    Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: No
    Hardrive: External
    Price: €169


    Receiver: Edision Argus VIP2
    Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
    7-day EPG for satellite: No
    Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
    Hardrive: External
    Price: €199


    Receiver: Technomate TM-6900HD Combo Super+
    Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
    7-day EPG for satellite: No
    Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
    Hardrive: External
    Price: €300


    Receiver: Ferguson HD Ariva Combo Box
    Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
    7-day EPG for satellite: No
    Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
    Hardrive: External
    Price: €169


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    #4
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    A suitable PC with HDMI, dual tuner or 2x Satellite DVB-S2 cards and a single Dual Tuner USB DTT stick is starting to look attractive. Next release shortly of DVBviewer and MHEG5 plug in should have most or all the initial bugs fixed. Not yet fully Freesat compatible, but shortly will be the most compatible PC Soarview/Freesat solution. XP or Windows7. Linux still has no properly working free MHEG5. Hence the Linux "open" set-boxes don't do it.


    Preview (there is link to You Tube video also) http://www.techtir.ie/blog/watty/mheg5-on-xp
    and putting the PC where it can't be heard whirring http://www.techtir.ie/howto/hdmi-via-cat5-cable
    Full Remote control.

    As soon as fully Freesat & Saorview PVR solutions are available they will be here www.saortv.info (in process of revamp to add step by step aerial and dish installs).


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    #5
    franbe
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭franbe


    can they all record terrestrial as well ?


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    #6
    franbe
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭franbe


    watty wrote: »

    As soon as fully Freesat & Saorview PVR solutions are available they will be here www.saortv.info .

    when do you expect they will be available ?


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    #7
    liamtech
    Registered Users Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭liamtech


    To be honest i very much doubt a Fully Saorview Freesat Combination box will ever be available . Freesat is a UK service that many (including myself) utilize in Ireland. Freesat's EPG is only compatible with Freesat Boxes, so no FTA combination box will have the ability to display it... Even an MHEG5 compatible combination box does not have the ability to use this EPG data - Therefore in the event that a Saorview/MHEG5 combination box does become available it will only have Now and Next - The Triax ST-HD537 had the promise of a 7 day guide updated via the internet, but this box has been plagued by issues.. SEE: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056168690

    One possibility is present... IF Fressat and Freeview released a cross platform PVR ie a FREESAT/FREEVIEW+HD... This box would ultimately be almost 100% compatible with Saorview, and would include a full 7day EPG for both terrestrial and satellite!

    Unfortunately there is absolutely no indication of such a product becoming available and when questioned about this unofficially, Freesat have seemed reluctant... It seems unlikely this type of device will ever exist! Shame really... It would be PERFECT for the Irish Market!

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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    #8
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Freesat /Freeview don't produce or release anything. People get a product tested and get a licence.

    The levels of functionality for Freesat:
    1. Basic MHEG (Interactive Text works but not multiscreen)
    2. Full MHEG including News & Sport Multiscreen
    3. EPG
    4. Series link
    5. Auto tuning of channels

    Only a Freesat licensed product will do all. There are or will be PC (XP or Win 7) solutions that can do all except auto tune. The Triax 537 seems to only do basic MHEG, with rumour of EPG via Internet later (Some Linux and Windows solutions do "unofficially" use the Satellite EPG information).

    It does not look likely there will be Saorview certified + Freesat Certified Setbox.

    Many of the "combos" are not true PVRs, lacking enough tuners or dedicated HDD. All lack MHEG5 apart from the buggy Triax 537.


    So the "single box" true "most function" PVR solutions appear to be a Freesat HD box with channel editor, Diseqc and Dual feed for Saorsat (not running yet) or a PC based solution, which is not actually much more expensive than a full featured True PVR and can be cheaper than some.

    Currently no PC media solution fully ticks all the boxes, but it is looking close.

    Most of the combos are inferior to a proper Freesat box or Sky box for UK TV functionality, ease of set up and use.


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    #9
    dubguy45
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭dubguy45


    Am I missing something here. I read only this morning that the Irish satellite will be at 9 degrees. If this is true, can we make this system any more incompatable to what is already available.


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    #10
    fat-tony
    Registered Users Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    liamtech wrote: »
    ...
    One possibility is present... IF Fressat and Freeview released a cross platform PVR ie a FREESAT/FREEVIEW+HD... This box would ultimately be almost 100% compatible with Saorview, and would include a full 7day EPG for both terrestrial and satellite!

    Unfortunately there is absolutely no indication of such a product becoming available and when questioned about this unofficially, Freesat have seemed reluctant... It seems unlikely this type of device will ever exist! Shame really... It would be PERFECT for the Irish Market!

    That box would be the utopian solution for many of us with Freesat and Saorview, indeed. There is one additional "wrinkle" with Freeview boxes, though, in that the HD sections of the Freeview EPG are compressed using proprietary Huffman tables. It's highly unlikely that RTENL would use the same tables - the best we could hope for is that there would be no measures taken on the Saorview EPG to compress or obfuscate the programme data such that the Freeview HD+ box would be unable to decompress it. The only reason it is being done on Freesat and on HD Freeview is to provide some level of control of copying HD material from Freesat/Freeview branded boxes.


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    #11
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    dubguy45 wrote: »
    Am I missing something here. I read only this morning that the Irish satellite will be at 9 degrees. If this is true, can we make this system any more incompatable to what is already available.

    That's more solvable than Saorview + Freesat.
    It has to be on 9E or a similar not yet launch frequency re-use multispot
    134102.png

    It's to avoid having to pay x10 as much for imports and x3 as much for home produced programming
    http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat-coverage


    (Pictured dish can feed up to 1000+ receivers with Sky/Freesat, 19E, 13E and 9E. Currently feeding 7 tuners, 16 outlets inc SkyHD box)


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    #12
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    fat-tony wrote: »
    It's highly unlikely that RTENL would use the same tables - the best we could hope for is that there would be no measures taken on the Saorview EPG to compress or obfuscate the programme data such that the Freeview HD+ box would be unable to decompress it.

    RTE unlike Sky or Freesat, but like Germany are doing full EPG on DVB-EIT. Even if they add MHEG5 EPG, that will remain. Unless a Freesat box isn't DVB compliant it will be able to get EPG. As to if it can get the Series link I don't know. A PC solution will eventually do Terrestrial or Satellite Irish TV completely as it's all publicly available standards (Nordig 2.2 and MHEG5) unlike UK D-Book for Freesat.


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    #13
    dubguy45
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭dubguy45


    watty wrote: »
    That's more solvable than Saorview + Freesat.
    It has to be on 9E or a similar not yet launch frequency re-use multispot
    134102.png

    It's to avoid having to pay x10 as much for imports and x3 as much for home produced programming
    http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat-coverage


    (Pictured dish can feed up to 1000+ receivers with Sky/Freesat, 19E, 13E and 9E. Currently feeding 7 tuners, 16 outlets inc SkyHD box)

    I see what you mean, but im motorised and cant be in two places at once.


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    #14
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Motorised isn't much use for PVR, and of course can do 9E and 28E easily if the receiver has support.

    I have a separate motorised system for "hobby" Satellite TV use. 42E to 45W


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    #15
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    franbe wrote: »
    can they all record terrestrial as well ?

    Yes.
    franbe wrote: »
    when do you expect they will be available ?

    More than likely never.


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    #16
    dino7
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭dino7


    I've used a Sony KDL32W5810U TV which has built in DTT and sat tuners.

    lt has built in Freesat HD and built in Freeview HD, so you get 7-day EPGs for both sat and DTT. I haven't tried out it's MHEG support for DTT interactive applications.

    Panasonic also do a similar line in TVs.


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    #17
    adamleigha
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭adamleigha


    Got meself the Edision Argus Mini ip today,freesat and saorview combined.
    EPG is a letdown but sourced a few different software versions to enhance menus.Also greater cam support.
    Didnt need the DTT aerial.....just connected a cable to the terestrial tuner and the tre's tv3 etc came in:D
    Happy enough with it for a second box.....recording and timeshift are easily done aswell so the missus can pause ,rewind etc.
    HDD or USB stick does the job
    Freck


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    #18
    franbe
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭franbe


    Apogee wrote: »
    Yes.



    More than likely never.


    cheers apogee


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    #19
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    adamleigha wrote: »
    Got meself the Edision Argus Mini ip today,freesat and saorview combined.

    If you were selling it you would be in SERIOUS trouble.

    It's a generic Satellite and Terrestrial DVB set-box. It absolutely is NOT a combo Freesat and Saorview box.

    Nor is it as ergonomic, feature or convenient as true Freesat HD box. It will also be problematic for viewing and recording simultaneously from September or whenever the 2nd DTT mux is running. It's a hobbyist box.

    More useful for Continental Europe.


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    #20
    rlogue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    Fully endorse what Watty said - a PC based solution is the best bet for the UK and Irish FTA channels provided of course you are in range of Saorview.


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    #21
    rlogue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    dino7 wrote: »
    I've used a Sony KDL32W5810U TV which has built in DTT and sat tuners.

    lt has built in Freesat HD and built in Freeview HD, so you get 7-day EPGs for both sat and DTT. I haven't tried out it's MHEG support for DTT interactive applications.

    Panasonic also do a similar line in TVs.

    Does it have a seamless connection between terrestrial and satellite or do you have to select separate menus?

    Ideally I'd like to be able to assign specific channel numbers to stations regardless of whether they are on satellite or terrestrial.


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    #22
    market_garden
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭market_garden


    watty wrote: »
    If you were selling it you would be in SERIOUS trouble.

    It's a generic Satellite and Terrestrial DVB set-box. It absolutely is NOT a combo Freesat and Saorview box.

    Nor is it as ergonomic, feature or convenient as true Freesat HD box. It will also be problematic for viewing and recording simultaneously from September or whenever the 2nd DTT mux is running. It's a hobbyist box.

    More useful for Continental Europe.
    Watty, forgive my lack of knowledge on this. What will be the problem when viewing and recording simultaneously when the 2nd DTT MUX is running?
    I have one of these boxes and I'm just wondering what the impact would be.


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    #23
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    market_garden wrote: »
    Watty, forgive my lack of knowledge on this. What will be the problem when viewing and recording simultaneously when the 2nd DTT MUX is running?
    I have one of these boxes and I'm just wondering what the impact would be.
    You'll only be able to watch and record on the same mux. It's not an issue at the moment because there's only one mux (hence you can watch and record all DTT). When the 2nd mux is running you'll need a dual tuner.


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    #24
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    liamtech wrote: »
    Even an MHEG5 compatible combination box does not have the ability to use this EPG data - Therefore in the event that a Saorview/MHEG5 combination box does become available it will only have Now and Next - The Triax ST-HD537 had the promise of a 7 day guide updated via the internet, but this box has been plagued by issues..
    It's disappointing to read about the Triax, but presumably they'll try and fix the bugs, and there still remains the potential market for such a receiver. Even without the epg for satellite, I believe a fully certified combo on the DTT side, and plain FTA on the satellite side would do well, especially for second TV's.

    I also think the existing combo's get a bit of bad rep based on their PVR capabilities (or otherwise). That's only an issue if you plan to use it as such.


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    #25
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    watty wrote: »
    It's a hobbyist box.

    As is a PC-based approach.


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    #26
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,133 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Thanks for all the replies folks.

    What about the Ferguson Ariva 200 Combo
    http://www.freesat.ie/index.php?cat=

    They say:
    Both Freesat & Saorview compatible. One remote, one channel list for both services


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    #27
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Apogee wrote: »
    As is a PC-based approach.

    Absolutely.

    Till someone ships a pre-built one with Freesat and Saorview certification.

    How you would get Freesat and Saorview certification for an Application isn't 100% clear.


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    #28
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Thanks for all the replies folks.

    What about the Ferguson Ariva 200 Combo
    http://www.freesat.ie/index.php?cat=

    They say:
    Both Freesat & Saorview compatible. One remote, one channel list for both services

    It's Satellite and Terrestrial MPEG4/HD compatible. Absolutely isn't Freesat OR Saorview compatible.

    i.e. You can tune all the regular channels on both platforms.


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    #29
    Neffa2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭Neffa2


    Would there be any market in the UK for a combo Freeview/Freesat box (which providing it did HD for DTT would work here too)?


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    #30
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    There is virtually ZERO market for a combo Freeview/Freesat HD box. Even less for a non-HD box.

    Yes UK "Freeview HD" sort of works here.

    Another month or two should be very interesting.


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    #31
    Pal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭Pal


    I know its an old thread but can anyone update me on developments.

    Heres what i would dearly like

    TV with Freesat/Saorview and a PVR all built in. No boxes or wires.

    :D


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