[gilberto_eire]

Originally Posted by flahavaj

Kerry play to a decent standard of hurling in the lower divisions of the NHL. They're no world beaters but they're no where near the embarrassment that KK footballera are Bear in mind it is also a far more specialised game than football is. Kerry do a far better job of competing and promoting hurling than many counties in Ireland in fact, despite it being a county obsessed with the bigger ball.

If Kerry can field a respectable hurling team, why can't KK field a respectablfootball team - a far less specialised sport?

I know you were trying to compliment Kerry hurling, but i actually think you were being overly critical.

KK footballers play in D4, they get whalloped every week to levels nobody does in hurling(Cavan come close but are minnows in football too).

Kerry hurlers on the other hand while not Liam McCarthy material are actually in the second tier and only a small bit behind Laois/Antrim and on the fringes of the Liam McCarthy giving them a rank in Ireland of around 13-16.

They only lost the Christy Ring final by a point last year.

TBH there isn't actually a decent comparison to KK.

I've just spent the last while comparing the counties hurling and football.
No county who have had success have a woeful team is the other code.
(the ulster clubs are the exception, where in hurling they make up most of the bottom tier, however all games seem relatively close)
Even Down manage to stick out two teams in the hurling, with one is D2 and the other in D4.
Fingal can even manage a hurling team to play competitively in Dublin, where hurling isn't overly popular.

Then KK footballers point difference after four games is 1-8 to 12-75.
As bad as a county like Leitrim is(slim success in their premier code), where football is more prominent, you wouldn't expect their hurlers to be losing by that much.

So it's strange to see a county which has been so dominant in one code, to be so poor in the other.
It's not exactly the smallest county either population wise(20 from the 32 from what I can find)

[bruschi]

Originally Posted by crucamim

Wexford might be presented as a dual county because it often produces a more than useful county football teams. That disguises the fact that in Wexford football is a parasite on hurling, both at county level and at club level. Is there any parish anywhere in County Wexford in which gaelic football is the predominant summer game for men?


The solution to the Kilkenny county football team is simple. In football terms, Kilkenny is not a "county" in any acceptable meaning of the word. The whole purpose of inter-county competition is to raise money for the GAA. It is unlikely that the exploits of the Kilkenny footballers will raise money for anything. Indeed, it will probably consume far more money that it generates. Any time or resources, which Kilkenny people have for gaelic football should be directly solely to their game at club level. And I doubt the wisdom of even that.

with regards to Wexford, you are talking absolute rubbish. Wexford were the first county to win 6 Leinster football titles in a row, and 4 All Irelands. It was a football county long before hurling, and despite years of football being in the wilderness, it still managed to produce decent players and decent teams, and only for the efforts of a few in schools and clubs, they got some success translated to inter county level. Hurling is pushed and pushed by the county board, but it is certainly a dual county.

As for clubs which football is the main summer game, off the top of my head, Kilanerin, Castletown, Gusserane, Horsewood, Ramsgrange, Bannow, Clongeen, Kilmore, St Fintans, Volunteers, Maudlintown, Taghmon, Ballyhogue and probably more I am missing. A parasite? give me a break. Football is an easy excuse to give for the complete lack of co ordination and succes with hurling.

But to be honest, if you think the whole purpose of the inter county competition is to raise money for the GAA then I dont think there is much point in even discussing anything.


Kilkenny dont take football seriously, that we know. I know a few very good footballers form there, and they are fed up of it. They dont have the proper training facilities, and the championship is only a warm up for the hurling. If they got in a decent coach and a good set up, it would improve things, but until that happens, it will remain as hurlers using it to get fit.

The other thing is, why do Kilkenny get so much stick for not taking football seriously, when there are a lot more counties who do worse for hurling?

[Martin567]

Originally Posted by gilberto_eire

I know you were trying to compliment Kerry hurling, but i actually think you were being overly critical.

KK footballers play in D4, they get whalloped every week to levels nobody does in hurling(Cavan come close but are minnows in football too).

Kerry hurlers on the other hand while not Liam McCarthy material are actually in the second tier and only a small bit behind Laois/Antrim and on the fringes of the Liam McCarthy giving them a rank in Ireland of around 13-16.

They only lost the Christy Ring final by a point last year.

TBH there isn't actually a decent comparison to KK.

I've just spent the last while comparing the counties hurling and football.
No county who have had success have a woeful team is the other code.
(the ulster clubs are the exception, where in hurling they make up most of the bottom tier, however all games seem relatively close)
Even Down manage to stick out two teams in the hurling, with one is D2 and the other in D4.
Fingal can even manage a hurling team to play competitively in Dublin, where hurling isn't overly popular.

Then KK footballers point difference after four games is 1-8 to 12-75.
As bad as a county like Leitrim is(slim success in their premier code), where football is more prominent, you wouldn't expect their hurlers to be losing by that much.

So it's strange to see a county which has been so dominant in one code, to be so poor in the other.
It's not exactly the smallest county either population wise(20 from the 32 from what I can find)

Kerry is not a good example, their hurling team is far better than the Kilkenny footballers. This is due to a small pocket of the county where hurling has always been popular. Geographically, Kilkenny simply doesn't have anywhere similar for football.

There are at least 8 or 10 hurling teams in the country as poor as the Kilkenny footballers. The difference is that they have each other to play against and so there are not as many hammerings (although Cavan are starting to change that). Kilkenny simply don't have anyone to play against in football anywhere near their own lowly level. Longford are in Div 4 but only lost to All Ireland finalists Down very narrowly in last year's Championship. Clare are in Div 4, their county champions played in the Club All Ireland last year. There is a much smaller gap between Div 1 & Div 4 in football as compared to hurling. Kilkenny are the one exception. If all Div 4 football teams were far weaker, Kilkenny wouldn't get half as much criticism. Look at how little comment there is about the state of hurling in Tyrone, Donegal, Cavan, etc. Some of these County Boards recently proposed disbanding their senior county team to apparently "concentrate the resources on promoting underage hurling"!

It is clear that the main motivation of some of those attacking Kilkenny for the treatment of football is to try to undermine the hurling success. Would the situation really be better if Kilkenny were average at both sports instead of brilliant at hurling and rubbish at football? I know for a lot of people it would. I will believe anyone's concern for the state of Kilkenny football to be genuine when they display equal concern for the state of hurling in many more counties.

[blackbelt]

But the issue is Kilkenny football and not hurling in the weaker counties...thats a different thread.

Each county board gets funding from central council for the promotion and running of each code.Kilkenny put little/bare minimum into football while most of the funding is continuously pumped into hurling.GAA is made up of two codes...hurling and football not just hurling.It is not the Kilkenny Hurling County Board.

Therefore,they should start reducing funding for hurling and do a decent job of promoting football within the county or get their total funding cut.Such resources could help county boards that are in financial strain...county boards that go out of their way to promote both codes!!!

[Martin567]

Originally Posted by blackbelt

But the issue is Kilkenny football and not hurling in the weaker counties...thats a different thread.

Each county board gets funding from central council for the promotion and running of each code.Kilkenny put little/bare minimum into football while most of the funding is continuously pumped into hurling.GAA is made up of two codes...hurling and football not just hurling.It is not the Kilkenny Hurling County Board.

Therefore,they should start reducing funding for hurling and do a decent job of promoting football within the county or get their total funding cut.Such resources could help county boards that are in financial strain...county boards that go out of their way to promote both codes!!!

But the point is why is the Kilkenny football team always such a big issue while the standard of hurling in far more counties is not? Show me the thread stretching into 4 or 5 pages bemoaning the work done in promoting hurling in 10 or more counties. Point me in the direction of the half page articles in newspapers about the hurling teams from any of these counties.

Another contributor above mentioned the Cavan hurlers but seemed to excuse them on the basis that their footballers are fairly mediocre also. In other words, the real problem in Kilkenny is the quality of the hurlers, not the footballers. The crime seems to be to excel at one sport at the expense of the other. Win nothing at either and you get off the hook totally. I repeat the question, would it be better if the Kilkenny footballers were at the level of Longford or Wicklow and the hurlers several levels below what they actually are?

There is simply no love for football in Kilkenny while there is a huge love for hurling. There are few enough true hurling counties playing the game at a high level as things stand. Your proposal is that some Kilkenny people should be taken away from hurling and forced to play football instead.

[ShamoBuc]

Originally Posted by Martin567

It is clear that the main motivation of some of those attacking Kilkenny for the treatment of football is to try to undermine the hurling success. Would the situation really be better if Kilkenny were average at both sports instead of brilliant at hurling and rubbish at football? I know for a lot of people it would. I will believe anyone's concern for the state of Kilkenny football to be genuine when they display equal concern for the state of hurling in many more counties.

KK have more All Ireland senior hurling titles than anyone else ( everyone knows that) but the comments made towards kk football are trying to undermine the hurling success? - christ almighty that is some load of nonsense. People are commenting because of the disgrace that is the kk football team and how the kk county board apply themselves towards the development of football in their county.
Also just because an effort is made with the footballers DOES NOT mean a fall from grace for the hurlers !! Why do you believe this? Dublin have put in a huge effort with the development of hurling in their county ( a good win over kk on sunday by the way ) has this lowered the capability of the footballers ( who beat Kerry and the All Ireland Champions Cork in the league already). And please do not spout populations - they made an effort, plain and simple! Therein lies the difference!

[adrian522]

I have been following this thread with interest as I have been involved in Kilkenny GAA down through the years though I now live in Dublin so am not involved with any Kilkenny club at present.

A few points to note about football in Kilkenny.

There is already a full senior football championship in Kilkenny with plenty of clubs entering a team. The Inter county football team get full gym membership and get all their gear provided.

Right now as has been pointed out football is a dominant sport in the majority of counties with 31 counties capable of fielding a team in the championship.

On the flip side if you look at the case of hurling you will find that it is in bad need of promotion outside of the traditional strongholds.

Since 1999 only 3 counties have won the all Ireland. Realistically speaking only Waterford and Galway have a chance of winning one in the next 5 years.

You look at counties such as Armagh, Tyrone, Longford, Donegal, Fermanagh, Cavan, Leitrim etc.

A lot of these counties have 1 or 2 senior hurling clubs and no senior championship, you have 10 or 11 guys showing up for inter county training. You have no floodlit pitches available for training.

Yet all the griping is about Kilkenny's football set-up. If you are advocating fining the Kilkenny county board or sacking them as has been suggested on here surely the above counties should also come in for the same criticism?

It all seems a little hypocritical to me.

The example of Dublin is a great example because you have one of the strongest football counties really doing their best to promote the game of hurling and their is a genuine interest here in the game. My brother recently helped set up a club in south Dublin and in their second year they are already fielding a second team.

The difference in Kilkenny I think is that the interest isn't really there. Lads would rather play junior hurling than senior football. Why that is I have no idea but there is certainly no appetite among the top players at senior clubs to play football even at inter county level.

I am sure that the talent is there within the county and even if Kilkenny picked from intermediate hurling clubs they could produce a competitive division 4 football team. The problem though is that the players have no interest in doing it.

One solution I have heard which seems to make the most sense is to split out the clubs into hurling and football clubs so that you have an entire club structure devoted only to football maybe amalgamate a few clubs together so that you would have less football clubs but they may be more competitive.

What ever the solution is its not as easy as "sack the county board"

[Martin567]

Originally Posted by ShamoBuc

KK have more All Ireland senior hurling titles than anyone else ( everyone knows that) but the comments made towards kk football are trying to undermine the hurling success? - christ almighty that is some load of nonsense. People are commenting because of the disgrace that is the kk football team and how the kk county board apply themselves towards the development of football in their county.
Also just because an effort is made with the footballers DOES NOT mean a fall from grace for the hurlers !! Why do you believe this? Dublin have put in a huge effort with the development of hurling in their county ( a good win over kk on sunday by the way ) has this lowered the capability of the footballers ( who beat Kerry and the All Ireland Champions Cork in the league already). And please do not spout populations - they made an effort, plain and simple! Therein lies the difference!

Can someone please answer the question I've posed twice and I see Adrian has now also done the same. Why is it that that the Kilkenny football team is a disgrace while the hurling teams of around half the country get very little mention. The neglect of hurling is far more widespread and is surely a bigger disgrace.

I don't believe that a better effort with the footballers would mean a fall from grace for the hurlers. Where did I say that? I do believe, however, that most people getting animated about this topic do so from a position of begrudgery towards Kilkenny hurling rather than a genuine love of football. If these people cared so much about the promotion of both sports, the thread about hurling, if one exists, should be far longer.

[ShamoBuc]

Originally Posted by Martin567

Show me the thread stretching into 4 or 5 pages bemoaning the work done in promoting hurling in 10 or more counties.

4 or 5 pages? More like 2 if you are on a bigger setting but whatever.
If you want a thread to bemoan the work done in promoting hurling in 10 or so counties START ONE !!!! This one is on the state of KK football - the hint is in the thread title!!!

[ShamoBuc]

Originally Posted by Martin567

Can someone please answer the question I've posed twice and I see Adrian has now also done the same. Why is it that that the Kilkenny football team is a disgrace while the hurling teams of around half the country get very little mention. The neglect of hurling is far more widespread and is surely a bigger disgrace.
.

AS ABOVE.

[Chinpool]

Originally Posted by Martin567

Can someone please answer the question I've posed twice and I see Adrian has now also done the same. Why is it that that the Kilkenny football team is a disgrace while the hurling teams of around half the country get very little mention. The neglect of hurling is far more widespread and is surely a bigger disgrace.

I don't believe that a better effort with the footballers would mean a fall from grace for the hurlers. Where did I say that? I do believe, however, that most people getting animated about this topic do so from a position of begrudgery towards Kilkenny hurling rather than a genuine love of football. If these people cared so much about the promotion of both sports, the thread about hurling, if one exists, should be far longer.

I wouldnt even see a neglect of hurling being widespread.There isnt a single hurling county team that continually gets the absolute sh!te beat out of it by every other team.They may not be all challenging KK or Tipp but in their respective divisions theyre at least competitive and are challenging each other to get better. The only GAA intercounty team that does happen to in hurling or football is the KK football team.
This isnt a witchhunt cause of KKs hurling success but the simple fact is it stands out. If the football team was at least competitive in their games even in the lower division nobody would bat an eyelid but the fact theyre so far down the ladder questions will always be asked as to why? What makes them that far behind on a much less specialised sport then hurling when even the most avid football counties are still as respectively competitive as each other in hurling?

[eroo]

To answer your question.. I started this thread about Kilkenny football to discuss the state of that County's IC team. I'm not looking to discuss the issues with low level counties in hurling, in this thread.

I am a hurling fan first and foremost myself, and it is obvious the CB's of most counties are focusing on one code. But the point of this thread is to discuss the future of Kilkenny's shocking IC football team. The issues regarding the state of hurling and the division between KK, Tipp, Waterford and Galway against the rest is one I am very worried about. But as I said, not the issue in this thread.

I read in the Examiner yesterday that KK football board held an emergency meeting on Wednesday night. The outcome? They are still commited to fielding a team for NFL, and their solution is to attract more players. No definite plan though.

[bruschi]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Chin

I wouldnt even see a neglect of hurling being widespread.There isnt a single hurling county team that continually gets the absolute sh!te beat out of it by every other team.They may not be all challenging KK or Tipp but in their respective divisions theyre at least competitive and are challenging each other to get better. The only GAA intercounty team that does happen to in hurling or football is the KK football team.
This isnt a witchhunt cause of KKs hurling success but the simple fact is it stands out. If the football team was at least competitive in their games even in the lower division nobody would bat an eyelid but the fact theyre so far down the ladder questions will always be asked as to why? What makes them that far behind on a much less specialised sport then hurling when even the most avid football counties are still as respectively competitive as each other in hurling?

I get what you are saying, and would agree to an extent, but the difference in quality between div 1 and 4 in football, is not nearly as stark as the difference as div 1 and 4 in hurling. Sure even the difference between div 1 and 2 in the hurling is too much. Down have been getting hammered by Clare/Wexford/Offaly in div 2 for the last 3 years, by as much as the KK footballers, but they are competetive against their own ilk.

Roscommon won the Connaught title and are in Div 4 in football. No team outside Div 1 in the hurling has a remote chance of even competing at top level.

[Martin567]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Chin

I wouldnt even see a neglect of hurling being widespread.There isnt a single hurling county team that continually gets the absolute sh!te beat out of it by every other team.They may not be all challenging KK or Tipp but in their respective divisions theyre at least competitive and are challenging each other to get better. The only GAA intercounty team that does happen to in hurling or football is the KK football team.
This isnt a witchhunt cause of KKs hurling success but the simple fact is it stands out. If the football team was at least competitive in their games even in the lower division nobody would bat an eyelid but the fact theyre so far down the ladder questions will always be asked as to why? What makes them that far behind on a much less specialised sport then hurling when even the most avid football counties are still as respectively competitive as each other in hurling?

The above deals with the exact point I've making but still manages to get it completely wrong. You say neglect of hurling is not widespread because no single team continually gets beaten by the margins that the Kilkenny footballers do. That is the whole point!!!!!

Almost half the hurling teams in the country have the same attitude to hurling that Kilkenny have to football. The difference is that they have each other to play against and the deficiencies get overlooked. Kilkenny have no-one to play at their own level. 31 counties put a serious effort into inter-county football, one doesn't. Being generous, about half of the counties put a serious effort into hurling, the other half doesn't. Which is the bigger problem?

[peabutler]

You can waffle all you like about the structure etc but the fact of it is that in KK no one wants to play Gaelic Football, it doesn't appeal to any youngsters who prefer Hurling followed by Soccer etc. Cutting funding serves no purpose as the Hurling will get the same amount and the Football will get nothing. Football is an afterthought in Kilkenny, the underage teams are usually just a few lads there for gear/fitness etc. It's all about Hurling right through the county not just the Board every young lad and grown man want to play Hurling and making them play football won't serve any purpose as they will drop the ball and head off home.


Another issue is the fact that if you look at Kierans they quite regularly make South Leinster finals and further under age without 4 or 5 of the best lads who would either be Hurling or just not bothered.