[instofhorror]

Originally Posted by smcgiff

Possibly, you didn't question when I said the CAI was the premium designation, but considering the scandals this could be in doubt. Also, lots of people mention ACCA and CIMA being the toughest - so it's not only my, but common, albeit not universal, opinion.

I've heard the quality of ACA students debate before - You'll see from the link above showing that most ACCA students have degrees. Also, by the time ACCA students get to the final stage they are past degree level ability, yet the final level pass rates are still very low.

Also, the current CAI pass rates which you may be aware of were drastically down - how do these pass rates sit with your assertions?

While the Big 4 may want the best students, it doesn't necessarily mean that the best students want to go into Big 4 - That's CAI practice blinkered thinking ACCA, unlike CAI, does not concentrate on practice and so allows an alternative route.

I doubt you're right about mature students - from what I understand they do very well when they go back to education and presumably the same applies with accountancy.

Finally, while CAI students get better holidays, they get them in block which may not be the best, but further it's somewhat if not entirely cancelled out because Big 4 students work considerably longer hours.

Now, as I've said the perceived difficulty of the CAI is up for debate considering the new pass levels. It will be interesting indeed.

Thats the point, I'm saying the pass rates perhaps aren't a reliable indicator of which exam is tougher, so the drop in CAI pass rates is irrelevant to my assertions.

That ACCA is tougher is a personal opinion, and should be marked as such, in of course, my personal opinion

[smcgiff]

Originally Posted by instofhorror

Thats the point, I'm saying the pass rates perhaps aren't a reliable indicator of which exam is tougher, so the drop in CAI pass rates is irrelevant to my assertions.

It was the same quality, presumably, of CAI student that took the latest exams yet the pass rates went down. It's arguable, among other factors for sure, that the exams were made harder in the most recent sitting. It would be very difficult for factors such as doing away with the compensation pass to fully justify the drop.

[instofhorror]

Don't know whats going on there, just to put another perspective on it the main question on the FR paper (usually the one most fail) was a cashflow I heard, which is easier than consolidation which it usually is.

I also know a few repeating some of the subjects from last year, and they got high marks -they were astonished, as they felt it was touch and go, similar ( and in one case the person was sure he'd done worse) to last year when they failed twice...

[smcgiff]

Originally Posted by instofhorror

Don't know whats going on there, just to put another perspective on it the main question on the FR paper (usually the one most fail) was a cashflow I heard, which is easier than consolidation which it usually is.

Although it can be argued that the unexpected will always be more difficult

[instofhorror]

Mmmmm..well, you'd still have learnt it, because its always likely for one of the other smaller q's

[Shurwhynot]

CPA Student here with 2 finals left and 2 sittings in which to pass them, including this one. I'm just wondering if anyone has, or knows anyone, who has failed to pass all 4 finals in the required 4 sittings?

It is by far and away the worst thing about CPA. People dedicate 3-4 years of their lives to try and qualify and then if they dont pass all the final exams in 2 years, that's it for them.

I'm not writing this due to lack of confidence or anything, but it just has me curious. I've heard of people saying that CPA are known to give a 5th chance etc but is this common? They would surely have sympathy if someone had just one exam left for example.

[smcgiff]

Originally Posted by Shurwhynot

It is by far and away the worst thing about CPA.

Agreed and the main reason why you'll not find me seriously recommending CPA as a choice for potential students.

I simply do not understand the logic behind it. It’s a contrived difficulty that has no function. Would love for someone from CPA to come on and defend it

With that said - my understanding is that a fifth chance will be made available if begged. The four attempts are consecutive, so if you've given it 2 goes and have to miss the third sitting because you cannot be there it counts as one of your chances being missed. A sixth option will not be made available.

However, correct me if I'm wrong, but the worst (and I agree it's crushingly bad) that happens is that you have to resit all final papers, and not expulsion.

Shurwhynot,

Would you be up for detailing your knowledge of the CPA student process. Number of exams to get, how many exams are required to be taken at each stage, how many need to be passed to keep all exams etc how many goes at each stage before loss of passed exams.

Also, what exam help does CPA give? CPA used to give out heavy "hints" and exam guidance that at least covered at least one exam question. Anything else?

If so can you PM me with your contribution? I'll then need to contact someone from each of the other bodies to get their input. I'll then put up a sticky - credit to be given to each contributor.

[Hanley]

Aren't you only allowed 4 attempts at CAP 1 and CAP 2 level with CAI too?? Dunno what the story is with FAE's tho. I should probably find that out because judging by this weeks exams I could be sitting them all several more times.

[censuspro]

Originally Posted by Shurwhynot

CPA Student here with 2 finals left and 2 sittings in which to pass them, including this one. I'm just wondering if anyone has, or knows anyone, who has failed to pass all 4 finals in the required 4 sittings?

It is by far and away the worst thing about CPA. People dedicate 3-4 years of their lives to try and qualify and then if they dont pass all the final exams in 2 years, that's it for them.

I'm not writing this due to lack of confidence or anything, but it just has me curious. I've heard of people saying that CPA are known to give a 5th chance etc but is this common? They would surely have sympathy if someone had just one exam left for example.

Irish Taxation Institute had the same rule up until they changed the syllabus and exam structure this year.

CPA's can also become an ACCA via the mutual recognition directive.

[smcgiff]

Originally Posted by censuspro

CPA's can also become an ACCA via the mutual recognition directive.

I think you are referring to the European directive, but I'm not sure membership of any particular body is on offer it's just that you are allowed to practice in a particular country.

Can you clarify the steps as you see them?

[MoWoolf]

Very comprehensive thread but thought i'd weigh in with my own modest opinion.

I am Acca qualified having started in a (very) small acca sole practitioner and moving to a medium size practice where i qualified. In the Acca versus Aca eternal debate i think it is far more important choosing a quality practice where you receive the support and proper training.

Having many friends and a brother that qualified Aca i personally think that the chartered route is more conducive to passing by providing a very structered course compared to the far more flexible Acca. Obviously flexible is a big adavantage for some people! Also the Istitute provide the lecturers for chartered whereas with acca it's a mixed bag depending on which college you choose. Personally for 2 of the final papers with Acca i had horrendous lecturers in one particular prestigious college which i ended up repeating.

Good luck to anyone starting out.

[shadowysmile]

...Can't believe that I thought the ACA thing is the British qualification which is ICAEW...I don't know the CAI is called ACA as well...

I've heard of the ICAEW is the most authorized and recognized certification for accountants in Europe, especially in Britain and Irealand. Do I have a chance to get a trainee position for towarding ICAEW in Irealnd? Thanks a million~

[mr_edge_to_you]

As each day goes on I get more and more frustrated by the level of snobbery I see in this forum by accountants when it comes to their respective qualifications.

Everyone with a professional qualification whether it be an Engineer, Doctor, Solicitor, Accountant etc works damn hard to get to the level they are at.

Each qualification trains its members with a different skill set. Some people might find the subjects easy for one body and very difficult for another.

I think there is absolutely nothing between CIMA/ACCA/ACA in terms of level of qualification.

I have been on the job hunt for the last few weeks after being made redundant so I can see what is happening out there in the economy.

ACA - is very much practice/audit based. It offers many opportunities in Financial Services, Taxation, Auditing and Consulting areas. I did interviews recently for industry Financial Accountant roles and the interviewers were often ACA members.

ACCA - is a qualification that offers the best of both worlds. Carries equal weight in practice and industry. With ACCA, a member should be easily able to work in practice and industry. It is a more broader skillset then ACA I think.

CIMA - is a qualification geared primarily to industry. It is a much different skill set than ACA and ACCA. I genuinely feel it is as much a management qualification as an accounting qualification.

Multinationals in industry are primarily looking for ACCA/CIMA people and Financial Services/Consulting are looking for ACA/ACCA specifically.

If the candidate is right the membership type is less relevant. A good manager will appreciate that if someone has completed professional exams they have a fairly good idea as to what they are at.

I can't say enough that each body requires training in very different skillsets.

[The CCAinsider]

Very comprehensive comparison between bodies, however, I would add something on international mobility.

Firstly some of the international recognitions mentioned above are already out of date. The international recognitions are changing all of the time and currently there is a 3rd country regime where basically if you are a statutory auditor in Ireland (with ACCA, ACA, CPA, etc…) you can apply to a 3rd country, do an aptitude test in company law and tax and get a similar status in that country. All of the major countries are 3rd countries, America, Canada, Australia etc… and more are being added all of the time. It is a reciprocal thing, they approve us, and we approve them. It is a mutual recognition thing brought in to have a similar quality control over audits in all countries and extends an EU scheme already in place. It is not fully in place yet but it will be shortly. This is in addition to any mutual recognition agreement a local Irish body has with an international body.

I would suggest that people do not get too hung up on international mobility; it is unlikely that you will be signing an audit report in the US any time soon. If you move to Australia and work in public practice you are likely to be well down the local food chain and nowhere near partner level – so being “locally” qualified is really irrelevant until you are well down your career path, at which time anything that is in place now will have completely changed by then. And sometimes being locally qualified is no good, up until recently , say a US qualified auditor moving to Ireland could get membership of a local Irish body, but the local body could not grant that American CPA, statutory auditor status (they did not train in the EU). The third country regime sorts out this problem.

In choosing your professional body, I suggest that you look at your personal circumstances, how much time you have to study and how quickly you want to be finished exams and how flexible you need to be. Might you need to skip a set of exams if there is a rush on at work, do you want to do the exams slowly, how much flexibility do you need in where you study and where you do exams? Ask your employer; they will have a preference, which body they will fund and if you transfer internationally can you finish the exams. Don’t look at the level of difficulty of the exams – they are all much the same contrary to what many posts might tell you. Yes two of the bodies have harder exams then the other two, but ignore this, the difference is immaterial in the grand scheme of things and you might even be better off with a harder set of qualifications in the long run. In terms of one body’s professional standing over another – it depends on who you ask. Employers opinions and job adverts are all that really count.

[smcgiff]

Originally Posted by Elevation Programme

So to sum up, Elevation = no contract necessary at any point.

Excellent - Good to know. This is a big departure.