Irish Sea Tunnel (Rail Only)

Jim Martin · 27-04-2010 8:17pm #1

Is this a feasible project?

It got me thinking with the air travel chaos last week and that this could be a portent of the future!

We need an adequate alternative to air & sea travel.

rameire · 27-04-2010 8:19pm

it might be easier and cheaper to decrentralise the Irish Government to The Moon.

SeanW · 27-04-2010 8:21pm

More likely if Icelandic volcanoes became a serious issue, we would put more ferrycraft to sea. There really isn't much traffic between Ireland and the rest of Europe that we couldn't put on an expanded fleet of HSS catmarans. Well, at least as far as the Uk, France and Spain anyway.

Mint Sauce · 27-04-2010 8:31pm

been discussed many times OP, two major things against it, the sheer cost, and the difference in railway gauge between britain and ireland

other thing would have to consider is route, and method of fuel/power to run such a service, imo it would require a major upgrade of the infracture on this side and improvements on the british side

penexpers · 27-04-2010 8:42pm

Somebody has been reading Metro Herald (or whatever it's called).

Judgement Day · 27-04-2010 8:46pm

Some day people are going to wake up and realise that in terms of cities, population etc Ireland is to Europe what the Aran Islands are to Ireland i.e. talk of building tunnels under the Irish sea is utter nonsense. In the meantime on quiet news days paper will never refuse ink.

scudzilla · 27-04-2010 8:49pm

Maybe we can all get together on Boards, ya know the sort of thing, somebody supplies the concrete, somebody else will chip in a few tonnes of wood, the next guy gives a few days labour.

Sure we'd have a tunnel built in no time, only for Boardsies use though

Run_to_da_hills · 27-04-2010 9:06pm

We spent 800 years trying to break away from the UK, the last thing we want is a tunnel to join us back up again.

irishguy · 27-04-2010 9:34pm

Is it really that un feasible ?

If you take a look at the busiest airport routes in europe/world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_busiest_passenger_air_routes

Dublin to London is well up there (Above London Paris). Also there was talk of using Foynes as a deepwater port for container ships from Aisa, as they will not fit into most european ports and transport the goods by rail.

This could have been an IBEC /CIF(Ireland in 2050) idea.

It would be worth looking at, but the likelihood of it happening anytime soon I wouldnt like to bet on.

stop · 27-04-2010 9:34pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

We spent 800 years trying to break away from the UK, the last thing we want is a tunnel to join us back up again.

Especially when we have a lovely motorway already linking us to the UK!

Run_to_da_hills · 27-04-2010 9:54pm

stop wrote: »

Especially when we have a lovely motorway already linking us to the UK!

But that dosen't go as far as the mainland.

Jim Martin · 27-04-2010 9:59pm

irish-stew wrote: »

been discussed many times OP, two major things against it, the sheer cost, and the difference in railway gauge between britain and ireland

other thing would have to consider is route, and method of fuel/power to run such a service, imo it would require a major upgrade of the infracture on this side and improvements on the british side

I don't think this is a problem - they manage very succesfully between SNCF & RENFE (France & Spain).

I forgot to say route should be Larne - Stranraer proximity for short distance. High Speed Railways from Dublin/Belfast (& hopefully Galway/Limerick/Cork) would make the whole project feasible.

Upgrading infrastructure to make railways here & UK more competitive would be no bad thing with electrified links!

Getting more freight onto the railway would be another bonus!

The Celtic Tiger never really happened, we're light years behind France/Germany/Spain with railway infrastructure! UK's not much better with only the Channel Tunnel HSR link in the 21st Century!

LordSutch · 27-04-2010 10:07pm

I think a tunnel link to Britain was mooted many years ago, to go from Northern Ireland to Galloway (22 miles approx), sounds like a good idea on paper but how much might it cost :cool: Or what about a bridge to Britain instead? > is twenty two miles too far?

dowlingm · 27-04-2010 10:10pm

The gauge issue is nothing talgo bogies couldn't solve, like between France and Spain. Alternatively you just transfer containers/passengers as applicable.

As for the cost - how much would it be expressed as a percentage of NAMA? Since NAMA, absurd figures seem a lot more manageable, I find.

steamengine · 27-04-2010 10:24pm

Jim Martin wrote: »

I don't think this is a problem - they manage very succesfully between SNCF & RENFE (France & Spain).

I forgot to say route should be Larne - Stranraer proximity for short distance. High Speed Railways from Dublin/Belfast (& hopefully Galway/Limerick/Cork) would make the whole project feasible.

Upgrading infrastructure to make railways here & UK more competitive would be no bad thing with electrified links!

Getting more freight onto the railway would be another bonus!

The Celtic Tiger never really happened, we're light years behind France/Germany/Spain with railway infrastructure! UK's not much better with only the Channel Tunnel HSR link in the 21st Century!

If Isambard Kingdom Brunel was around today, he possibly would have already completed such a project - judging by some of his achievements in tunneling. He certainly wasn't short of vision or indeed persuading governments etc. to fund such ventures. As a matter of interest he engineered the rail tunnel complex South of Bray ! If our population were to increase to circa 8 million and above it might give more impetus to the commencement of such a project.

Carawaystick · 27-04-2010 11:29pm

Jim Martin wrote: »

I don't think this is a problem - they manage very succesfully between SNCF & RENFE (France & Spain).

Have you ever seen the timetable to get from north of Cerbere to south of Portbou? "successfully" isn't a way I'd describe it.

Or maybe you mean the line from Figueras to Perpignan where there's no break of gauge but also no station on the south of the pyrenees - so no trains.

gjim · 27-04-2010 11:58pm

Jim Martin wrote: »

I forgot to say route should be Larne - Stranraer proximity for short distance. High Speed Railways from Dublin/Belfast (& hopefully Galway/Limerick/Cork) would make the whole project feasible.

Good thinking. A high speed rail link from Dublin to the Scottish lowlands. Just what we need.

BlueCam · 28-04-2010 12:51am

Carawaystick wrote: »

Have you ever seen the timetable to get from north of Cerbere to south of Portbou? "successfully" isn't a way I'd describe it.

Or maybe you mean the line from Figueras to Perpignan where there's no break of gauge but also no station on the south of the pyrenees - so no trains.

The Spanish high-speed rail system (AVE) was built to TGV standards, on standard-gauge track. Barcelona-Perpignan is currently under construction. Assuming Ireland did ever decide to built its own high-speed rail system, whether it's connected to the UK or not, there's no doubt they'd build it to the same standards. This wouldn't affect the existing broad-gauge network as high-speed lines are almost always built on dedicated track anyway, similar to new motorways.

SeanW · 28-04-2010 1:52am

Camelot wrote: »

I think a tunnel link to Britain was mooted many years ago, to go from Northern Ireland to Galloway (22 miles approx), sounds like a good idea on paper but how much might it cost :cool: Or what about a bridge to Britain instead? > is twenty two miles too far?

That actually sounds halfway reasonable.

dowlingm · 28-04-2010 2:49am

There is the small matter of dumped munitions in Beaufort's Dyke.

gar32 · 28-04-2010 3:21am

There are plans for a train to go transatlantic so 22miles is not so far

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-04/trans-atlantic-maglev

Cookie_Monster · 28-04-2010 8:55am

how is this still getting coverage, it so stupid.

you could pay for enough ferries for the next 200 years with the money they would spend on this.

Infrastructure by the way, not C&T!

corktina · 02-05-2010 12:58pm

The Volcano wasnt the problem, it was the over-reaction to it that was the problem. Now that lesson has been learned, next time (IF there is a next time...) the reaction will be more measured.

As for a tunnel (or a bridge)...what a cracking idea! We could extend the Limerick trains from Claremorris to run via it.....:D

dlofnep · 02-05-2010 1:06pm

Camelot wrote: »

I think a tunnel link to Britain was mooted many years ago, to go from Northern Ireland to Galloway (22 miles approx), sounds like a good idea on paper but how much might it cost :cool: Or what about a bridge to Britain instead? > is twenty two miles too far?

It would be one of the longest bridges in the world if it was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_bridges_in_the_world

FlameoftheWest · 02-05-2010 1:44pm

Jim Martin wrote: »

We need an adequate alternative to air & sea travel.

What is wrong with sea travel that we need an alternative?

As for the tunnel. Technically it is possible, but the tunnel/bridge part would be the easy part. A new international gauge high speed line from Belfast to Dublin would be required and then the Bridge/Tunnel across from the Antrim to Mull of Kyntyre and then it isa lonnnnnnnnnnnng way to the next city Glasgow and through an protected scenic area of huge ecological importance. Not to mention the West on Track types demanding it make a detour to Mayo...

So on just about every level there are major issues which cannot be overcome realistically.

If this was a normal sane country, and Greenies were not deranged lunatics obsessed with Co2 plant food being a toxin, we would have trains running at speed directly to ferry ports for freight and passengers to be taken to the UK by fast ferries.

But alas this country is a nuthouse and the most obvious solutions will alway be ignored.

dynamick · 02-05-2010 2:48pm

Dublin-London is the worlds busiest air route: 4.6m pax
You would need to have good journey times and high air taxes to compete with air. It would need to be about 2.5 hours or a train doing an average 280km/h

So you'd need the next gen of HSR or the one after. And it ought to be low energy use compared to air.

And there is no tunnel or bridge in the world yet as long as Dublin-Holyhead.

Channel tunnel has been a difficult project to make work and it has closer larger cities.

So not much hope in the next 20 yrs

If the brits were building a HSR network in the UK...
If air travel became expensive...
If tunnelling became far cheaper...
...then that would help.

I think it would make more sense to improve trade links with Belfast first. There must be many higher priority more viable projects than this.

Cookie_Monster · 02-05-2010 2:53pm

dynamick wrote: »

Dublin-London is the worlds busiest air route: 4.6m pax

really, that's impressive.

dynamick wrote: »

And there is no tunnel or bridge in the world yet as long as Dublin-Holyhead.

oh but there is nearly:

Longest 79km vs about 95km needed.

getting there

Sponge Bob · 02-05-2010 3:08pm

you cannot have a tunnel between NI and Scotland because it is too DEEP

Chris_5339762 · 02-05-2010 4:08pm

Also the UK would have to build HSR to Holyhead or wherever it comes ashore. Given that a link with Ireland really wouldnt benefit them at all they wouldnt do it.

Also would you trust CIE with a massive undersea tunnel?

donvito99 · 02-05-2010 4:40pm

gar32 wrote: »

There are plans for a train to go transatlantic so 22miles is not so far

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-04/trans-atlantic-maglev

I say we scrap NAMA and build that!

(And the tunnel would prob work out cheaper)

dRNk SAnTA · 02-05-2010 8:30pm

gar32 wrote: »

There are plans for a train to go transatlantic so 22miles is not so far

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-04/trans-atlantic-maglev

Article: "Ah, the costs: Estimates range from $25 million to $50 million per mile."

Cheaper than the Luas!! :pac:

Irish Sea Tunnel (Rail Only)

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