Lyric FM - General Discussion Thread

JonnyBlackrock · 08-12-2009 5:14pm #1

Is it just me or is their programming going down the toilet? It started when they cancelled "The Full Score" (where SHOCK HORROR they actually played COMPLETE works) and replaced it with John Kelly and his Somalian drummers etc. Then they put Gaybo on a Sunday with his show bands and endless wittering about his pet fetishes and hates, and now we have Marty Whelan (aka "Mr Cheese") EVERY DAY for 2 hours.

Somalian drummers, show bands, cheesy music and film scores are all well and good, but why on Lyric FM?

I get the distinct impression that for the boffins at RTE, Lyric FM has become a dumping ground for programs/presenters/subjects they can't find anything else to do with.

Let's have a discussion about this.

Clinker · 08-12-2009 5:47pm

I agree! The airwaves are full of this kind of dross already: who needs another easy listening channel?

Lyric was never a very heavy duty, but it was giving us mainly classical (light and in snippets) but at least it served to some extent those of us who like classical music.

They have had poor presenters in the past: remember Carl Corcoran in the morning, are the Twang Man as I think of him, since he couldn't play two pieces in a row that didn't have a guitar (or other plucked string instrument) in them!

Sandwich · 08-12-2009 8:15pm

Its gone down the drain alright. Marty Whelan was the last straw.
Wrote to the Lyric director as he requests on the Lyric website, but never got a reply. Just dont tune in anymore now.

Can someone post if it sorts itself out. Thanks.

TimmyTarmac · 08-12-2009 8:17pm

Absolutely right Jonny, the head honchos at RTE have lost whatever cojones they had. I don't care what PR line they'll spin, Lyric is being dumbed down big time. First we got Kelly and his Mongolian Nose Flute virtuosos and telling us for about two years that he didn't rate Mozart very highly! A spoofer of the highest order. It replaced the only daytime show with full works in it. Now Marty Whelan - nuff said.
I realise that daytime radio in general should be that bit lighter to catch whatever punters may be out there. I have no problem with that, it's enjoyable when done well. And there are still concerts, opera etc. I still have a lot of time for the station and what they are trying to do probably on a shoestring but for the love of God, if you're are playing classical - just play classical (meaning romantic, Baroque etc). If it's a jazz show or world music that's fine. If I hear classical followed by Andy Williams singing 'moon river' or Van Morrison again so help me I will set myself on fire with rage - in the studio.
It's just not fair, it was set up to have programming on the arts with a predominance of Classical music (once again meaning many genres). The private sector won't do it. That's why we have a public broadcaster funded by license fee - it's not all about buying Champions League broadcast rights.
BTW I have directed these points and more to RTE to be met with guff about how the programming needs to morph and change over time yadayadayada and how there has been a positive reaction to the changes.
I'm not so much interested in individual programmes but in the principal of having a station like this and we're going to lose it I think. In another year who's to say Ronan Collins or Brendan Balfe won't be there playing Showbands followed by Bizet?
I'll take my blood pressure pills now.
P.S. please don't move this to the radio forum - it's really a discussion about the State broadcaster's attitude to quality serious music.

JonnyBlackrock · 08-12-2009 11:57pm

Wow, it's good to see that I'm not the only one....

I also have no problem at all with lighter programming, especially during the day. After all, there are definitely times (eg when stuck in a traffic jam) when you don't necessarily feel like listening to a Bruckner symphony.

But we haven't even discussed Lyric's interminable request shows, with their relentlessly chirpy announcers going "and now, for the ninth time on this beautiful sunny morning here in Limerick, we're going to hear Verdi's glorious Chorus of the Hebrew Slaves. Brothers Conor and Ronan O'Shea from Ballyboghole in County Offaly have asked us to play if for their Uncle Jimmy and Auntie Mary from Ballysomewhere in County Leitrim, as they're celebrating their golden wedding anniversary this coming Friday, and hearty congratulations to them from all of us here at Lyric". Do we really have to listen to that crap all the time?

To be honest, I only ever listen to Lyric when I'm driving. Thankfully when I'm at home I have my CD collection and I have internet radio where I can listen to interesting and CHALLENGING music stations from all over the world.

The Mad Hatter · 09-12-2009 12:52am

I quite liked John Kelly's show back when I listened to the radio. One place to get decent contemporary music, and I liked that there was no real restriction on what he played. Few other shows would provide Tom Waits, the Gothic Archies, Bach, Reich and Vladimir Godar. As such it really appealed to me (and presumably others like me), given I hate categorisation of music. It was like a daily Mystery Train, which I liked.

It was, though, the only show I ever really listened to, and I don't really miss it.

They've always catered to less popular music forms, rather than just classical - they've been saying that since the beginning, but it is a shame if they've been cutting down the amount of classical they've been paying.

Dirigent · 09-12-2009 9:00am

My musical taste is broad and widespread, from Hildegard von Bingam to Adés. But my pet hate is mediocre jazz, epitomised by Marty Whelan's endless "it's American, it must be good" mantra. I like the odd Sinatra or Ella Fitz piece, but two solid hours a day of utter sameness?

Doshea3 · 09-12-2009 10:58am

I stopped listening to Lyric a long time ago, and it seems it's only gotten worse now. The only programme I ever tune into (albeit briefly, because I work at 11) is Tim Thurston's 'Gloria' on Sunday mornings which is good because he plays early music, no pop classics and FULL WORKS! There are a couple of other decent programmes (or at least there were) but always relegated to times where nobody is really listening anyway.

Carl Corcoran. Ah, I had a soft spot for him because he used to say hello to me when I texted in my competition entry as I was a 'regular listener'. And then they dumbed down the composer conundrum from three pieces by three different composers (and often very difficult ones!) to three pieces by one composer (inevitably two obscure pieces and one famous one). Though Carl in his day was a pop star in the 70s or so I hear.

Speaking of poor presenters, I began to lose faith in Lyric the day one of their presenters announced that he was going to play Schubert's Ave Maria as sung by Kiri Te Kanawa and then proceeded to play Mozart's Ave Verum sung by some big German-sounding choir. Afterwards he said cheerfully, '...and that was Schubert's Ave Maria as sung by Kiri Te Kanawa.' Either he wasn't listening to what he played or he just didn't have a clue...I suspect the latter. Someone texted in to correct him a few minutes later and he brushed it off saying, 'Did I play Mozart's Ave Verum instead of Schubert's Ave Maria? Ah, silly me.'

'Sugary sweet classical music for idiots' a friend once described the typical request programme fare. And it's not far wrong: I've been told reliably that not one of the producers in Lyric has any interest in or knowledge of classical music and the station's aim is to shy away from 'serious' classical music lest they lose listeners (!).

JonnyBlackrock · 09-12-2009 1:44pm

Doshea3 wrote: »

Speaking of poor presenters, I began to lose faith in Lyric the day one of their presenters announced that he was going to play Schubert's Ave Maria as sung by Kiri Te Kanawa and then proceeded to play Mozart's Ave Verum sung by some big German-sounding choir.

'Sugary sweet classical music for idiots' a friend once described the typical request programme fare. And it's not far wrong: I've been told reliably that not one of the producers in Lyric has any interest in or knowledge of classical music and the station's aim is to shy away from 'serious' classical music lest they lose listeners (!).

Those mistakes can happen anywhere. Israel has an excellent classical music radio station called the Voice of Music, although it can be a bit to up itself sometimes - Bruckner symphonies while sitting in traffic, and I remember once recording Stravinsky's "Three Movements from Petrushka" played by Pollini. I got the score from the library and found it to be completely different. I played the tape to my piano teacher, who said it was Prokofiev's Sonata No 7. The next time I went into a record shop I saw that they had simply played the wrong side of the record!!! (and no, the announcer didn't notice)

BTW, it's absolutely obvious that none of the producers at Lyric know anything about classical music.

rcaz · 09-12-2009 5:29pm

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

I quite liked John Kelly's show back when I listened to the radio. One place to get decent contemporary music, and I liked that there was no real restriction on what he played. Few other shows would provide Tom Waits, the Gothic Archies, Bach, Reich and Vladimir Godar. As such it really appealed to me (and presumably others like me), given I hate categorisation of music. It was like a daily Mystery Train, which I liked.

+1 on all points.

My experience of Lyric is limited to John Kelly's show, but I thought it was brilliant, for those exact reasons.

funky penguin · 09-12-2009 5:54pm

Mmmmm, indeed the JK ensemble is/was the only thing on radio I liszten to. A mixed bag of all-sorts without the awful licorice only sweets.

TimmyTarmac · 09-12-2009 6:37pm

BTW, it's absolutely obvious that none of the producers at Lyric know anything about classical music.[/quote]

That may be a bit unfair to some of them. I don't know them or anything but I do see names like Ethna Tinney and Celia Donohue are producers there and they are certainly people from musical backgrounds with a fair bit of experience. The problem might be further up the food chain with management - ultimately the responsibility of the Director of Radio. If a decision is made to dumb down the service, especially in the daytime, it doesn't really matter who's producing the programmes. Once again it seems to me that having a service like this must be seen as a bit elitist by the powers that be.
I listen to it probably every day at some stage. I'm not part of any elite - I don't think so anyway. I live outside of Dublin and my income and circumstances dictate that my access to top quality Classical (all genres etc.) music is limited. I do pay a TV license and passionately love this music and expect something other than the All Ireland Talent Show in return.
We may all have our likes and dislikes about programmes and presenters on Lyric but it's the threat of it becoming some MOR adult oriented oldies station that has me worried.
The bottom line is that from Director General down, the attitude in RTE needs to become more fearless - it's okay to have a national station that pays respect to quality music and the arts. It's free to air which means it can be enjoyed by Supreme Court Judges and people living solely on Social Welfare alike.
It should reflect a national appreciation for these things. Okay, it'll never have mass audience appeal but that should not be RTE's problem. Ostensibly 'poorer' countries can have these services - why not Ireland?
And now......I'll climb gently off the high horse........

darjeeling · 09-12-2009 7:00pm

There used to be a scale of increasing highbrowness:
Classic FM -> Lyric FM -> BBC Radio 3

It sounds as though Lyric is now coming more to resemble Classic FM, but Radio 3 - happily - is staying true to form.

For fans of the JK Ensemble, why not try Radio 3's Late Junction? Renaissance viol musicke, Mongolian throat singing, quirky contemporary singers who (Waits-like) don't fit into boxes, experimental electroclassical and more...

Sandwich · 09-12-2009 8:18pm

darjeeling wrote: »

There used to be a scale of increasing highbrowness:
Classic FM -> Lyric FM -> BBC Radio 3QUOTE]

Would disagree there. I thought Lyric (RIP) was a far better station than Classic FM in several respects:
- I had the impression that Classic probably consumed more air time advertising their own programs than playing music
- every programme was a list/countdown/requests one
- Extreeeeeeeemly limited repertoir

Lyric, thought not 100% classical music, had a good spread of, lets say, 'minority music': Jazz, Sacred, World, Movies/Shows, World etc. And from a national broadcaster in a small counrty I thought that was a reasonable way to cater for a variety of less popular tastes.
Sadly theyve now gone Radio 1.

BBC3 is good, but has 2 failings, an excessive interest in both contemporary music, and British music simply because its British. But I would admit they probably have some reponsibility to both, and it just that theyre not my thing.

darjeeling · 09-12-2009 9:02pm

Sandwich wrote: »

Would disagree there. I thought Lyric (RIP) was a far better station than Classic FM in several respects:
- I had the impression that Classic probably consumed more air time advertising their own programs than playing music
- every programme was a list/countdown/requests one
- Extreeeeeeeemly limited repertoir

Yes, Lyric was and is still much more innovative and interesting than Classic FM. At the same time, I've found the request slots a bit same-ish, and not had much interest in the show tunes.

Sandwich wrote: »

BBC3 is good, but has 2 failings, an excessive interest in both contemporary music, and British music simply because its British. But I would admit they probably have some reponsibility to both, and it just that theyre not my thing.

I have in the past wondered if the BB in BBC stood for Benjamin Britten, but it's not something I've noticed more recently. Radio 3 does cover all the Proms - to its credit - and there's a bit more British music there than the neutrals might like or think merited. On the whole, though, it plays a wide range of music, familiar and unknown, and I think it's a good listen.

R3 does benefit from public funding, and probably doesn't have to worry as much about market share as commercial stations. I don't how much Lyric is affected by the need to chase audience figures.

banquo · 09-12-2009 10:21pm

I hate Lyric FM.

That is all.

Doshea3 · 09-12-2009 11:16pm

JonnyBlackrock wrote: »

Those mistakes can happen anywhere. Israel has an excellent classical music radio station called the Voice of Music, although it can be a bit to up itself sometimes - Bruckner symphonies while sitting in traffic, and I remember once recording Stravinsky's "Three Movements from Petrushka" played by Pollini. I got the score from the library and found it to be completely different. I played the tape to my piano teacher, who said it was Prokofiev's Sonata No 7. The next time I went into a record shop I saw that they had simply played the wrong side of the record!!! (and no, the announcer didn't notice)

BTW, it's absolutely obvious that none of the producers at Lyric know anything about classical music.

Fair enough regarding the mistake between Stravinsky and Prokofiev, but surely anyone—even the most disinterested announcer—could tell the difference between Schubert's ubiquitous Ave Maria sung by a soloist and Mozart's rather different Ave Verum sung by a choir?

From now on I am going to start listening to BBC Radio 3.

westtip · 10-12-2009 12:14am

Jonny would say thank god for the internet and being able to listen to R3, or indeed some of the internet music channels. Lyric does need to reposition itself as a classical music radio station. All this dross they play like music from the movies etc and endless 3 minute slot request shows.

Also: TT summmed it up in this one sentence

TimmyTarmac wrote: »

Absolutely right Jonny, the head honchos at RTE have lost whatever cojones they had. I don't care what PR line they'll spin, Lyric is being dumbed down big time. First we got Kelly and his Mongolian Nose Flute virtuosos and telling us for about two years that he didn't rate Mozart very highly!

Play a full piece of music. Lets listen to it. Then give us your advertising. i am afraid it is trying to appeal to the LCD and it doesn't work.

Look what they did to O'Brien on Song on Radio one - a joy of a programme gradually marginilised to 11.00pm on a Sunday night - Why not give this sound broadcaster a decent spot on Lyric? He unearths some amazing recordings.

"Opera Snob" "Moi?" You cannot be serious.

The Mad Hatter · 10-12-2009 12:23am

Doshea3 wrote: »

FULL WORKS!

I say we put this at the top of a petition and just sign it and send it in.

Speaking of poor presenters, I began to lose faith in Lyric the day one of their presenters announced that he was going to play Schubert's Ave Maria as sung by Kiri Te Kanawa and then proceeded to play Mozart's Ave Verum sung by some big German-sounding choir. Afterwards he said cheerfully, '...and that was Schubert's Ave Maria as sung by Kiri Te Kanawa.' Either he wasn't listening to what he played or he just didn't have a clue...I suspect the latter. Someone texted in to correct him a few minutes later and he brushed it off saying, 'Did I play Mozart's Ave Verum instead of Schubert's Ave Maria? Ah, silly me.'

I think radio presenters, by the time their show goes out, have generally listened to everything they're going to play several times, so probably they don't bother to listen when it actually goes out on the air, and just grab a quick cup of tea or bathroom break instead.

'Sugary sweet classical music for idiots'

Oh, hey, let's be fair! It may not be BBCR3, but at least it's not Classical FM!

Doshea3 · 10-12-2009 10:23am

My friend was referring specifically to programmes like Lunchtime Choice with the sugary sweet quote.

Classic FM is worse than that, based on the few times I've listened to it. Since when did Il Divo become 'classical'? Westlife for would-be opera snobs more like.

The Mad Hatter · 10-12-2009 11:13am

Doshea3 wrote: »

My friend was referring specifically to programmes like Lunchtime Choice with the sugary sweet quote.

Classic FM is worse than that, based on the few times I've listened to it. Since when did Il Divo become 'classical'? Westlife for would-be opera snobs more like.

My parents thought I'd be very excited when they got Classic FM TV on Sky Digital. They couldn't understand why I was being so damned critical.

It seems they have access to about five music videos, which they play on a loop.

funky penguin · 10-12-2009 11:56am

I think the problem with Classic FM TV is that there just aren't that many classical music videos.

JonnyBlackrock · 10-12-2009 2:19pm

One annoying thing that happens on Lyric is when announcers, particularly the guy with the slight northern accent who has a program during the morning, drop their voices just when they say the most important things. They talk perfectly audibly when they're going on about the tempo, key and opus number, and then whisper the name of the composer and the performer. Very annoying.

TimmyTarmac · 10-12-2009 5:44pm

In fairness to the much maligned Classic FM, at least they play classical music. Have a look at their playlists on their website - yes you'll see loads of 'hits' and not much else but they don't play this ****e Crossover that's spreading like a fungus through the major recording labels (or whats left of them).
They may promote these artists but they don't play em on air. Why? This station is run by hardnosed bussiness men and women and I'm guessing they think that this dross does not sit well with traditionally recorded and performed classics. There should be a lesson for Lyric management in this. They might have that Classic FM TV thing but they daren't upset the radio schedules and listeners that make them money.
Note to Lyric management and producers: Katherine Jenkins may look great but she don't sing great and all the reverb on her recordings won't change this. Three well toned lads singing pop songs like Unbreak My Heart etc in Italian is a pop song sung in Italian and there are 50 + stations in the Republic of Ireland where I can hear stuff like that.
There is supposed to be only one station dedicated to the arts with predominantly Classical music and other specialist music. It was set up by direction of the then Minister, Michael D. Higgins. Do your job and provide it.
Is it possible that RTE is breaking the law by moving content and programming away from the original ministerial direction?

JonnyBlackrock · 10-12-2009 5:50pm

TimmyTarmac wrote: »

In fairness to the much maligned Classic FM, at least they play classical music. Have a look at their playlists on their website - yes you'll see loads of 'hits' and not much else but they don't play this ****e Crossover that's spreading like a fungus through the major recording labels (or whats left of them).

Note to Lyric management and producers: Katherine Jenkins may look great but she don't sing great and all the reverb on her recordings won't change this. Three well toned lads singing pop songs like Unbreak My Heart etc in Italian is a pop song sung in Italian and there are 50 + stations in the Republic of Ireland where I can hear stuff like that.
There is supposed to be only one station dedicated to the arts with predominantly Classical music and other specialist music. It was set up by direction of the then Minister, Michael D. Higgins. Do your job and provide it.
Is it possible that RTE is breaking the law by moving content and programming away from the original ministerial direction?

Indeed. I've only ever listened to Classic FM a few times, mostly while driving in Northern Ireland. They annoyed me with too many adverts and too much talking, but I actually found their repertoire OK. Ideal for driving anyway.

I wonder about the legal thing. Very interesting. I'm thinking of e-mailing the link to this thread to somebody in Lyric. Does anybody know who I should send it to?

TimmyTarmac · 10-12-2009 6:08pm

Jonny,
As someone who works in the public sector and not at a very high level and from my own complaints to Lyric, I would say that sending this to Lyric would achieve nothing. Just like in the HSE, Government departments etc., the job of middle management is to cover one own's arse and wait for the pension. That strategy includes not admitting mistakes. That means showing complaints to as few as possible and certainly not to your bosses. I don't know, but I'm guessing it would be the same result in RTE as it's looks even more entrenched than some other agencies of the state.
So, you probably need to go to the guy who can really effect change or at least ask a few questions - the Director General. I'm not too hopeful.
The reason it ticks me off so much is that I 'm a listener and I like quite a lot of it but the road it's going down is worrying.

The Mad Hatter · 11-12-2009 1:19pm

funky penguin wrote: »

I think the problem with Classic FM TV is that there just aren't that many classical music videos.

There's plenty of concert recordings and the like, as Sky Arts has demonstrated.

evolving_doors · 11-12-2009 6:43pm

Mart Wheelan... wtf is that all about!!!
Gay Byrne.. Jaysus gay would you ever just shutup and play the feckin tune
John Kelly..He's not so bad really but suited radio 1 a bit better..

Enough of the jazz please though...

Dirigent · 12-12-2009 1:14pm

This morning I had to listen to a bit of that prat who plays lollipops and attempts funny voices on Saturday mornings, 'enuf said. What's next, the Lyric X factor?

funky penguin · 12-12-2009 2:10pm

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

There's plenty of concert recordings and the like, as Sky Arts has demonstrated.

Very good point.

I suppose in that case then, there just aren't enough recordings of Vanessa Mae's tits then. :pac:

Jammyc · 10-01-2010 4:41pm

Whyd they move the replay of the JK Ensemble to 04.30 as opposed to 02.30, now I never get a chance to listen to it, cant get podcasts on my phone and dont get a chance to download em and put em on durin the day.

Lyric FM - General Discussion Thread

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