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Europe of Freedom and Democracy group leaflet published

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  • 16-09-2009 1:28am
    #1
    free to prosper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭


    The Europe of Freedom and Democracy group in the EUropean Parliament

    are sending a Lisbon information leaflet to every home in Ireland.

    It is today published on their website and viewable here at euinfo.ie

    It's certainly bright and funky and should catch people's eye. It they look at its content people will certainly read it.

    Virtually every political group in the EU Parliament is pumping money into Ireland. EPP, Socialists etc are pumping money in and calling for people to vote Yes.

    The Europe of Freedom and Democracy group are just giving vital info about lisbon and aren't telling people how to vote.

    Oh yeah, the leaflet is in no way funded by UKIP - that is just the Irish Times working as Yes side propagandists again. Their reporting was simply untrue.- Quelle surpris!

    There is a page on the growing influence on the European Court of Justice,
    as well a page on immigration and Turkish accession.

    The rising cost of funding the EU is also at the fore - as is the ECj and Charter's damage to workers' rights.

    Have a good look at the leaflet. I would have preferred to Brian Cowen's head on the turkey in the leaflet - but I can't expect everything.
    Tagged:


«13

Comments

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    #2
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Colourful, simplistic, jingoistic, and extraordinarily mendacious. I particularly like the fact that it's targeted at rural voters.

    If you have any proof that the various Parliament groupings that include Yes parties are actually putting money into the campaign, do share it with us. So far all I've seen is claims by the No side (by UKIP, for example) that it's happening, along with rather obvious interference by No groups in the Parliament and the UK.

    Goodness me, though - a lie on every page. Is there anything in there that isn't scaremongering and lies?

    amused,
    Scofflaw


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    #3
    homer1916
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭homer1916


    I can only hope my years of learning economics has focused on one thing, Ireland gets a great benefits from Europe. Please god the Yes vote will win


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    #4
    passive
    Registered Users Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭passive


    free to prosper wrote: »

    The Europe of Freedom and Democracy group are just giving vital info about lisbon and aren't telling people how to vote.

    Oh yeah, the leaflet is in no way funded by UKIP - that is just the Irish Times working as Yes side propagandists again. Their reporting was simply untrue.- Quelle surpris!

    It's funny 'cos it's not even slightly true... Don't you feel bad about being dishonest?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8129312.stm
    "The UK Independence Party (UKIP) has teamed up with other Eurosceptics to form a new 30-strong group in the European Parliament.

    The group, called Europe of Freedom and Democracy, is headed by UKIP leader Nigel Farage.

    Seriously? Like.. you're seriously saying "no way funded by UKIP?" like there's no connection between the two. This took 3 seconds of googling!

    (edit: It gets even better.. This new, helpful to us poor peasant Irish voters, totally not* the same as the UKIP, group is like two months old.. hilarious.)


    *is


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    #5
    free to prosper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭free to prosper


    I understand a number of Europe of Freedom and Democracy group MEPs - from across Europe , will be in Ireland sometime soon.

    The Freedom and Democracy Group in the European Parliament has 32 MEPs. It's precursor was the InDem group earlier this year.

    I did notice that the Europe of Freedom and Democracy group wanted to correct the IT propoganda earlier last week.

    The leaflet is funded by the EU parliament group. They get funds from the EU parliament budget. The leaflet is not funded by UKIP. For UKIP to do so would be both expensive and probably illegal. They haven't done so.

    European Parliamentary Group sets record straight

    ‘I represent a group in the European Parliament, the Freedom and Democracy group, comprising of 32 MEPs,’ Nigel Farage said last night.

    ‘We are trying to do something in Ireland because we want to redress the balance where a wall of money is funding the Yes side, who because they cannot win the argument in a fair debate, are attempting to buy the result.

    ‘This referendum really is a case of the people taking on the power of the political class.
    ‘The Yes side must learn that in a democracy, a No vote really does mean no, and the people’s decision must be respected.

    I was invited by Reuters to speak at a Lisbon debate on Monday in Dublin. During this debate, I was astounded by the level of implicit or overt racism from Yes side advocates. The term ‘Anglo-Saxon’ was used by them on numerous occasions.

    There is no justifiable reason for the Yes side to sink into the gutter of racism in order to squeeze a few votes. It shows how desperate they are, and incapable of showing any benefits in the Lisbon Treaty for Ireland.

    ‘The Europe of Freedom and Democracy group, wishes in its own small way, by publishing an information leaflet, to bring about a semblance of balance. This is at a time when the Broadcasting Commission has said both sides in the Lisbon debate don’t need to be given equal time to make their arguments.

    ‘This treaty gives unlimited potential power to the EU. Article 352 of Lisbon allows the EU to take more lawmaking powers to itself without having to consult the people of Ireland or Europe in a new treaty referendum.

    ‘Many many Europeans will cheer joyfully if Ireland votes no to Lisbon. It will allow for a proper debate on the direction of Europe and the level of democracy in the EU. This is something that should be welcomed by all democrats.’


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    #6
    ghost_ie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 545 ✭✭✭ghost_ie


    homer1916 wrote: »
    I can only hope my years of learning economics has focused on one thing, Ireland gets a great benefits from Europe. Please god the Yes vote will win

    Please explain these benefits


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    #7
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    So are there any representatives of Europe of Freedom and Democracy elected by the irish people?


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    #8
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    It's horrible to think that there exist people who will actually believe the stuff written in that leaflet and vote no as a result.
    I was invited by Reuters to speak at a Lisbon debate on Monday in Dublin. During this debate, I was astounded by the level of implicit or overt racism from Yes side advocates. The term ‘Anglo-Saxon’ was used by them on numerous occasions.

    I think my head just exploded from the stupidity/ignorance contained within these sentences


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    #9
    Plotician
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭Plotician


    Any old tactic is ok now in this referendum. There's a vacuum created by lack of public debate and in its place anything can be chucked into the arena.

    At this stage we should simply forget our principles, democratic or otherwise, and employ any trick we can.

    This applies to both sides.

    If anyone can justify imbalanced airtime please speak up.


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    #10
    free to prosper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭free to prosper


    I guess some of the Yes campaigners are disappointed that the leaflet is not by UKIP. It must be hard to take.

    To correct misreporting by the IT earlier last week, the Europe of Freedom and Democracy guy in Brussels did a PR to clear up mistruths put about by the Yes campaign sheet - IT.


    "Contrary to some mistaken press articles recently, Nigel Farage is head of the Europe of Freedom and Democracy Group in the EU Parliament, he is no longer leader of UKIP - he stood down recently to concentrate on his political work in the EU Parliament.

    In addition the forthcoming leaflet comes and was produced by the Europe of Freedom and Democracy Group in the EU Parliament to which, UKIP has not contributed one penny.

    "It is almost self-explanatory that our group believes strongly in democratic self-determination for the diverse peoples and countries of Europe.

    The Freedom and Democracy group is very proud of their humble effort and hope its information leaflet on Lisbon will be helpful. The leaflet doesn't tell people how to vote, it simply imparts important information of Lisbon, that people should know before they vote.

    "IBEC, Intel, and Ryanair have lined out beside the government, most of the media, and the EC Commission to convince your readers that you should change the Irish Constitution and hand over more political power to EU institutions.

    In terms of campaign finance, it really is a case of the people versus the political class. In this David versus Goliath contest, the Europe of Freedom and Democracy group are keen to reach out a helping hand to the Irish people. i believe that rejection of Lisbon will encourage a debate on the level of democracy thoughout the EU and show that Irish people will not be bullied.

    Gawain Towler,
    Europe of Freedom and Democracy group,
    Brussels


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    #11
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    free to prosper wrote: »
    I understand a number of Europe of Freedom and Democracy group MEPs - from across Europe , will be in Ireland sometime soon.

    I do hope so.
    free to prosper wrote: »
    The Freedom and Democracy Group in the European Parliament has 32 MEPs. It's precursor was the InDem group earlier this year.

    I did notice that the Europe of Freedom and Democracy group wanted to correct the IT propoganda earlier last week.

    The leaflet is funded by the EU parliament group. They get funds from the EU parliament budget. The leaflet is not funded by UKIP. For UKIP to do so would be both expensive and probably illegal. They haven't done so.

    European Parliamentary Group sets record straight

    ‘I represent a group in the European Parliament, the Freedom and Democracy group, comprising of 32 MEPs,’ Nigel Farage said last night.

    ‘We are trying to do something in Ireland because we want to redress the balance where a wall of money is funding the Yes side, who because they cannot win the argument in a fair debate, are attempting to buy the result.

    It's a pity these noble feelings didn't kick in last time round, eh?
    free to prosper wrote: »
    ‘This referendum really is a case of the people taking on the power of the political class.
    ‘The Yes side must learn that in a democracy, a No vote really does mean no, and the people’s decision must be respected.

    I was invited by Reuters to speak at a Lisbon debate on Monday in Dublin. During this debate, I was astounded by the level of implicit or overt racism from Yes side advocates. The term ‘Anglo-Saxon’ was used by them on numerous occasions.

    There is no justifiable reason for the Yes side to sink into the gutter of racism in order to squeeze a few votes. It shows how desperate they are, and incapable of showing any benefits in the Lisbon Treaty for Ireland.

    An absolutely extraordinary claim given the attempt being made to brand this as a referendum on Turkish accession (which at the most optimistic estimate is unlikely to take place before 2023, given that of the 35 accession 'chapters' required for entry, only one is completed while eight are formally blocked by Turkey's non-recognition of Cyprus).
    free to prosper wrote: »
    ‘The Europe of Freedom and Democracy group, wishes in its own small way, by publishing an information leaflet, to bring about a semblance of balance. This is at a time when the Broadcasting Commission has said both sides in the Lisbon debate don’t need to be given equal time to make their arguments.

    ‘This treaty gives unlimited potential power to the EU. Article 352 of Lisbon allows the EU to take more lawmaking powers to itself without having to consult the people of Ireland or Europe in a new treaty referendum.

    ‘Many many Europeans will cheer joyfully if Ireland votes no to Lisbon. It will allow for a proper debate on the direction of Europe and the level of democracy in the EU. This is something that should be welcomed by all democrats.’

    As usual, one wonders where these people have been during the seven years it took to get Lisbon negotiated.

    Still, it's nice that UKIP, instead of spending their own money on this drivel, have chosen to spend EU taxpayers money on it instead. Thanks, Nige!

    regards,
    Scofflaw


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    #12
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    In terms of campaign finance, it really is a case of the people versus the political class. In this David versus Goliath contest, the Europe of Freedom and Democracy group are keen to reach out a helping hand to the Irish people.

    I ask again, are any of the Europe of freedom and democracy party have any elected representatives from Ireland?

    Are they associated with any of our national parties?


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    #13
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    free to prosper wrote: »
    "Contrary to some mistaken press articles recently, Nigel Farage is head of the Europe of Freedom and Democracy Group in the EU Parliament, he is no longer leader of UKIP - he stood down recently to concentrate on his political work in the EU Parliament.

    In addition the forthcoming leaflet comes and was produced by the Europe of Freedom and Democracy Group in the EU Parliament to which, UKIP has not contributed one penny.

    Where do you reckon the money cames from?
    free to prosper wrote: »
    The Freedom and Democracy group is very proud of their humble effort and hope its information leaflet on Lisbon will be helpful. The leaflet doesn't tell people how to vote, it simply imparts important information of Lisbon, that people should know before they vote.

    A leaflet to every household in the country is humble effort now? I had a read and so far I can't find one thing in it that's not a lie or a misrepresentation of some kind.
    free to prosper wrote: »
    In terms of campaign finance, it really is a case of the people versus the political class. In this David versus Goliath contest, the Europe of Freedom and Democracy group are keen to reach out a helping hand to the Irish people. i believe that rejection of Lisbon will encourage a debate on the level of democracy thoughout the EU and show that Irish people will not be bullied.

    Strange most of the posters around here are No ones. Where do some of these groups with very little public support get the large sums of money for these posters?

    I'll tell you one thing I'll not be bullied by some rightwing scumbags who want to destroy the EU.
    free to prosper wrote: »
    Gawain Towler,
    Europe of Freedom and Democracy group,
    Brussels

    And Press Secretary of UKIP, weird.


    I was pissed off with the lying from the No side but at least they were our own people having their say in their own country, even if I very much disagree with them (and can't seem to figure out where their money comes from). But these UKIP assholes can **** right off. And the funny is thing I reckon they'll turn many people into Yes voters but I still don't want them anywhere near us.


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    #14
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    This could seriously backfire. When the make up of the group behind this gets publicised, it will make good kindling for the fire!

    Seriously, it seems to be falling for the usual scare mongering of the No campaign. It will appeal to the usual No voters but most don't knows will see through it.

    It is funny the different reaction to this same thread on politics.ie and here.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #15
    Plotician
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭Plotician


    A thought about airtime..

    If the amount of time allowed is based on level of support then the last comprehensive measurement of this means the 'no' campaign should get 53.4%

    Is it just me?


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    #16
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    I particularly like the picture of the sad farmer with the red tape noose around his neck.

    Ugh, the sooner this thing is over, regardless of the result, the better. This is absolute insanity at this stage and I am sick of being seen as on the same "side" as the publishers of this fantastic leaflet, the nutjobs behind this crap and the rest of the bundle of lunatics who've decided to come out in force for this.


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    #17
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Plotician wrote: »
    A thought about airtime..

    If the amount of time allowed is based on level of support then the last comprehensive measurement of this means the 'no' campaign should get 53.4%

    Is it just me?

    It would be good for the Yes side, give groups like this airtime.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #18
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Plotician wrote: »
    A thought about airtime..

    If the amount of time allowed is based on level of support then the last comprehensive measurement of this means the 'no' campaign should get 53.4%

    Is it just me?

    No I too would be very supportive of more airtime for the likes of Nigel Farange and Richard Greene.


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    #19
    free to prosper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭free to prosper


    Plotician,
    I'm sure the No side would settle for 50 per cent of the airtime to get their message across.

    But back on topic, I personally think the Freedom and Democracy leaflet looks great. What do other punters think?

    Job security - Ruffert, ECJ and the Charter
    Immigration and Turkish accession
    THE ECH overrulling our laws and values
    Why are we having a 2nd referendum
    Europeans will rejoice if Ireland votes No etc

    This leaflet should get plenty of attention.
    It will get people talking.


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    #20
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    free to prosper wrote: »
    Plotician,
    I'm sure the No side would settle for 50 per cent of the airtime to get their message across.

    But back on topic, I personally think the Freedom and Democracy leaflet looks great. What do other punters think?

    Job security - Ruffert, ECJ and the Charter
    Immigration and Turkish accession
    THE ECH overrulling our laws and values
    Why are we having a 2nd referendum
    Europeans will rejoice if Ireland votes No etc

    This leaflet should get plenty of attention.
    It will get people talking.

    Personally 50% airtime is fine by me, give them rope I say.

    You call yourself 'free to prosper' does it bother you they've been pretty liberal with the truth?


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    #21
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Rb wrote: »
    I particularly like the picture of the sad farmer with the red tape noose around his neck.

    Ugh, the sooner this thing is over, regardless of the result, the better. This is absolute insanity at this stage and I am sick of being seen as on the same "side" as the publishers of this fantastic leaflet, the nutjobs behind this crap and the rest of the bundle of lunatics who've decided to come out in force for this.

    People like COIR and UKIP are utterly and blatantly dishonest, but nothing has characterised this whole debate more than dishonesty, evasion, and a sucking morass of intellectual laziness - easier to react than debate the issues, easier to think up a clever slogan than to promote the truth.

    There is only one way in which Ireland can "win" this referendum, and that is by using the painful lessons it offers to build a better public discourse. I'm afraid that with a few honourable exceptions (many of them here), we are all COIR in this referendum.

    regretfully,
    Scofflaw


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    #22
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    free to prosper wrote: »
    Plotician,
    I'm sure the No side would settle for 50 per cent of the airtime to get their message across.

    But back on topic, I personally think the Freedom and Democracy leaflet looks great. What do other punters think?

    Job security - Ruffert, ECJ and the Charter
    Immigration and Turkish accession
    THE ECH overrulling our laws and values
    Why are we having a 2nd referendum
    Europeans will rejoice if Ireland votes No etc

    This leaflet should get plenty of attention.
    It will get people talking.

    I think it looks like lies across the board - and lies that aren't even believed by their authors. I'll echo Rb here - the sooner this is over, and filth like this is no longer being shoved in everyone's faces, the better. Material like this isn't part of the debate - it's part of the reason there isn't a debate.

    Scofflaw


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    #23
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Colourful, simplistic, jingoistic, and extraordinarily mendacious. ...

    I applaud the restraint displayed in that response.


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    #24
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    free to prosper wrote: »
    Plotician,
    I'm sure the No side would settle for 50 per cent of the airtime to get their message across.

    But back on topic, I personally think the Freedom and Democracy leaflet looks great. What do other punters think?

    Job security - Ruffert, ECJ and the Charter
    Immigration and Turkish accession
    THE ECH overrulling our laws and values
    Why are we having a 2nd referendum
    Europeans will rejoice if Ireland votes No etc

    This leaflet should get plenty of attention.
    It will get people talking.

    It's the same message as COIR, SF and Joe Higgins.

    Nothing new, except it probably is more far fetched. The Turkey one is easily disproved.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #25
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    I have no problems whatsoever with Turkish accession. However, the ECJ should in my view be confined to economic and financial matters. apart from those the Irish Supreme Court should be, ah... Supreme.


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    #26
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I have no problems whatsoever with Turkish accession. However, the ECJ should in my view be confined to economic and financial matters. apart from those the Irish Supreme Court should be, ah... Supreme.

    Does that constitute a defence of this stuff? If not, how is it relevant?

    regards,
    Scofflaw


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    #27
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Does that constitute a defence of this stuff? If not, how is it relevant?

    regards,
    Scofflaw

    well it has a section on the ECJ

    but it seems to focus on euthanasia as its key issue. With some very weird ones to back it up (presumption of innocence? children's rights?) and the usual (marriage law, family law labour law.)


    of course their proof of this is article 81

    but they seem to have missed the very first line of article 81
    1. The Union shall develop judicial cooperation in civil matters having cross-border implications, based on the principle of mutual recognition of judgments and of decisions in extrajudicial cases.


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    #28
    free to prosper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭free to prosper


    THe problem with the Charter is not just EU thanasia.

    Looks at what effect it has about the death penalty-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MLtJNCB7Ac&feature=fvw


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    #29
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_of_Freedom_and_Democracy

    ITS 68% consisting of UKIP members

    none of the members are from Ireland

    :mad:


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    #30
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    free to prosper wrote: »

    Looks at what effect it has about the death penalty

    ffs will you stop it already with the lies

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055680496

    read the above thread

    LISBON DOES NOT INTRODUCE DEATH PENALTIES OR ANY OTHER CRAP LIKE THAT

    yes i am shouting now, since the lies are getting beyond ridiculous now

    edit: ive calmed down now :)


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    #31
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Rb wrote: »
    I particularly like the picture of the sad farmer with the red tape noose around his neck.

    Ugh, the sooner this thing is over, regardless of the result, the better. This is absolute insanity at this stage and I am sick of being seen as on the same "side" as the publishers of this fantastic leaflet, the nutjobs behind this crap and the rest of the bundle of lunatics who've decided to come out in force for this.

    Does the fact that there aren't really any reputable organisations on the no side side not make you think twice about your position? This certainly gave me a good picture of the motives of the main opponents of this treaty.


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