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11-05-2009, 13:42   #46
Carawaystick
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I'm sure local authorities also have the power to CPO.
Yep, Dublin Corpo CPO'ed the Carlton CInema site - to build a shopping centre, which is definitely in the national interest.... Oh no wait..
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11-05-2009, 13:47   #47
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Spirit reponse

Hi all.

I am part of the Spirit group and I just wanted to respond to some of your points. thanks for your comments. we are starting a forum on www.spiritofireland.org today and we have a feedback section already there.

This project requires 2 pumped storage facilities of 1Gw each for irish needs. We believe we can deliver energy independance in five years. Prof Shvets original proposal set off the entire project which has developed since. If the Irish public wish to have an even bigger project, we can do so and develop an export market.

over 50 valleys have been identified as possible, none have been decided on, so I wouldnt/couldnt try and name specifics. the communities will decide themselves if they want to be part of it, thats why a lot of effort is being placed on publicising to general public now. The valleys in question are uninhabited. We have had thousands of people contacting us through the website, offering suppoort, help, advice and indeed requests to view potential areas in the west

We have completed a huge amount of engineering, financial and enviornmental analysis, with a team of over 50 professionals for 6 months. you can contact the spirit website with questions and we will post the answers publically as quickly as we can respond to them.

I suggest/ask that you consider the project as more and more information is released. We are all working voluntarily on this project, because we believe it is the right way forward for Ireland and Irelands economy. This is a genuine, 'doing it for ireland' project, but I accept that until you see the full business planning you wont fully believe that.
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11-05-2009, 13:47   #48
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eh ??

what about your own wiki quote there Murphapp

" although there is a temporary problem resulting from the connection of a large bloc of wind power from offshore wind farms to a single point on a weak section of the transmission network"

Which in Ireland means many large Blocks to many weak points .

The grid cannot handle 220kv anywherenear the west coast save in Oranmore county Galway and in east Kerry the nearest 220kv to Donegal is on the Longford / Roscommon border

1 Gw is 2 of these lines in parallel all the way to Dublin from the west

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11-05-2009, 14:04   #49
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eh ??

what about your own wiki quote there Murphapp

" although there is a temporary problem resulting from the connection of a large bloc of wind power from offshore wind farms to a single point on a weak section of the transmission network"

Which in Ireland means many large Blocks to many weak points .

The grid cannot handle 220kv anywherenear the west coast save in Oranmore county Galway and in east Kerry the nearest 220kv to Donegal is on the Longford / Roscommon border

1 Gw is 2 of these lines in parallel all the way to Dublin from the west

Sorry SB, it just looks like any other pylon to me (I can see it carries multiple cables etc. and is a bit stronger looking but a pylon's a pylon). I am from Dublin-we have loads of pylons. I suggest the West of ireland has been badly treated in this regard and should demand its fair shair of the pylon pie.
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11-05-2009, 14:06   #50
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Hi all.

I am part of the Spirit group and I just wanted to respond to some of your points. thanks for your comments. we are starting a forum on www.spiritofireland.org today and we have a feedback section already there.

This project requires 2 pumped storage facilities of 1Gw each for irish needs. We believe we can deliver energy independance in five years. Prof Shvets original proposal set off the entire project which has developed since. If the Irish public wish to have an even bigger project, we can do so and develop an export market.

over 50 valleys have been identified as possible, none have been decided on, so I wouldnt/couldnt try and name specifics. the communities will decide themselves if they want to be part of it, thats why a lot of effort is being placed on publicising to general public now. The valleys in question are uninhabited. We have had thousands of people contacting us through the website, offering suppoort, help, advice and indeed requests to view potential areas in the west

We have completed a huge amount of engineering, financial and enviornmental analysis, with a team of over 50 professionals for 6 months. you can contact the spirit website with questions and we will post the answers publically as quickly as we can respond to them.

I suggest/ask that you consider the project as more and more information is released. We are all working voluntarily on this project, because we believe it is the right way forward for Ireland and Irelands economy. This is a genuine, 'doing it for ireland' project, but I accept that until you see the full business planning you wont fully believe that.
Thanks for coming on here. I suggest yo will have a wider audience and maintain a presence on boards rather than hoping everyone migrates to yor own site. Answering questions here may draw people in though.

Can you outline how the salt water would be prevented from reaching groundwater supplies?

If the numbers don't stack up for the pumped-storage aspect of the plan, will SoI forge ahead with the large scale windfarm aspect of the plan?
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11-05-2009, 14:22   #51
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there are over 6Gw of wind in current gate 3/planning process, so wind itself is not so much the problem. issue is what happens when it does not blow, blows too much and grid connections in remote locations where the grid is not now currently.

Pumped storage is the key element of this plan and the enabler that allows much greater usage of wind power.

We will maintain a presence on boards.ie of course, but there are over dozen boards keeping tabs on us at moment! our own forum, with pulished questions may be useful also. it also means that we get all questions. I have already been accused of ignoring questions over weekend, when we were working on preparing tech docs!
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11-05-2009, 14:24   #52
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I suggest the West of ireland has been badly treated in this regard and should demand its fair shair of the pylon pie.
Thats the spin my son , guarantee lots of pouring concrete and steel fixing and you will always get somewhere with the West ( and the Midlands not forgetting)
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11-05-2009, 14:26   #53
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Can you outline how the salt water would be prevented from reaching groundwater supplies?
Yes, I would be interested to know how they will seal the bottom of the lake on such a large scale. Supposedly its been done before and doesn't pose a problem.
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11-05-2009, 14:28   #54
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These valleys will be on or near the coast so any groundwater under them leaches into the sea which is , as it happens , full of sea water .

The ingenious aspect of this scheme is its use of sea water not lake water .
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11-05-2009, 14:31   #55
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Thanks for commenting acos.

When does SoI expect to release the list of potential dam locations? I suspect your project will meet with much (justified) scepticism until we start to hear some specifics, which includes the names of these experts, a breakdown of the costs, and the aforementioned dam locations.

In addition, given the need to commission feasibility, constraints and EIS reports, not to mention to obtain planning permission, I do not see how a five-year target is remotely achievable.

Having said all that, I am definitely in the pro camp, though as yet this is - as Calina mentioned - a purely emotional response.

I do "want to believe", however.

But in the absense of hard data and detail, the scheme sounds too good to be true for the time being.
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11-05-2009, 18:11   #56
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Remember, even if we don't achieve this fabled energy independence lark, pushing up wind energy to take full advantage can only be a good idea.
True - and therein lies the basis of a two-phased approach. Phase one is to scout out and settle on the locations and then to build the wind turbines, and phase two is to construct the pumped-storage part.

At least then, if it goes belly-up half-way through, we'll have the extra wind capacity anyway.
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11-05-2009, 18:14   #57
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An extended European grid has a role to play. The nature of the weather systems mean that if it is windy in one place then it is probably calm somewhere else. A grid can help move energy around, especially if they can improve superconductor technology. However a grid could break down, so the island of Ireland needs things like pump storage as well.
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11-05-2009, 18:21   #58
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The ingenious aspect of this scheme is its use of sea water not lake water .
Wouldn't that have implications for the turbines and all the other pipework the water would flow through though .. i.e. corrosion?
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11-05-2009, 19:06   #59
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Corrosion would not be a big issue , you spend more on coatings when you build it . The Barrage de la Rance has been going for over 40 years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rance_tidal_power_plant

schematic


Last edited by Sponge Bob; 11-05-2009 at 19:18.
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11-05-2009, 20:07   #60
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Hi all.

...

This project requires 2 pumped storage facilities of 1Gw each for irish needs. We believe we can deliver energy independance in five years. Prof Shvets original proposal set off the entire project which has developed since. If the Irish public wish to have an even bigger project, we can do so and develop an export market.
Turlough Hill is ~300MW but probably not for very long. there's 4 turbines there, so getting to 1GW is only a matter of scale and more turbines. ~ 12 turbines. But to smooth out calm spells there'd need to be a huge amount of water stored

using Power = turbine efficiency * density of fluid * head * flow rate * g
ad assuming high efficiency of ~90%,

To generate 1GW from a 250m head for 1 week, you'ld need almost a quarter of a billion cubic metres. or a cube of water 650m a side - but then that'd increase the head...

Turlough hill has 2.4 * 10^6m^3 capacity in the top lake.
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