JC Decaux signs start appearing - Shocking.

**spockety** · 07-07-2008, 10:21

This is already over on Motors, but I'm sure a lot of you don't read that forum regularly.

It's pretty flabbergasting, and everyone with an interest in commuting and road safety in general should see what we're up against from our own authorities.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055329731

AlekSmart · 07-07-2008, 11:12

Incredible stuff.This just HAS to be stopped in it`s tracks immediately before the City Councils actions are DIRECTLY responsible for serious injury or death.

Surely as City Manager,Mr Tierney is required to exercise some form of professional overview over his councils decisions ?

Let there be NO doubt but that in the event of any such serious accident in the vicinity of these Advert Frames then the City Manager PERSONALLY will have to account for his PERSONAL decision to ignore and,it would appear,subvert the planning and approval process which is there to PREVENT scenario`s such as this occurring.

The actions of Dublin City Council under his stewardship has allowed this scheme to proceed in the face of serious concerns from within and without the council chamber.

Whilst I am prepared to live with that fact I most certainly am not prepared to accept what has materialized whereby a Statutory Body blatently ignores the rules of Commonsense and places it`s citizens at hugely increased risk of death or injury !

markf909 · 07-07-2008, 12:12

Surely the Guards can be notified of this?

If they can be responsible to the placing of bus poles then they ought to be able to do something about this calamity.

paulm17781 · 07-07-2008, 12:18

Out of curiosity, why are these even here? Is it for the council to get some extra revenue? They're awful looking things, I've seen 2 so far and they do an excellent job of being in the way.

MYOB · 07-07-2008, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulm17781

Out of curiosity, why are these even here? Is it for the council to get some extra revenue? They're awful looking things, I've seen 2 so far and they do an excellent job of being in the way.

Its for the council to get free BIKES...

ninja900 · 07-07-2008, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlekSmart

Incredible stuff.This just HAS to be stopped in it`s tracks immediately before the City Councils actions are DIRECTLY responsible for serious injury or death.

Arguably the city council's O'Connell Street project has already caused needless deaths. Having no differentiation between road and pavement is madness. Nothing happened as a result of that tragedy so...

Quote:

Surely as City Manager,Mr Tierney is required to exercise some form of professional overview over his councils decisions ?

They just do not care about road safety. Cyclists think that DCC just doesn't care about them, actually they don't show any evidence of caring about anyone. E.g. ped crossing buzzers switched off, ped crossing countdowns installed but not switched on, all sorts of hazards affecting motorists from bad signage to potholes to failure to ensure contractors leave the road in a fit state after opening it.

Quote:

Let there be NO doubt but that in the event of any such serious accident in the vicinity of these Advert Frames then the City Manager PERSONALLY will have to account for his PERSONAL decision to ignore and,it would appear,subvert the planning and approval process which is there to PREVENT scenario`s such as this occurring.

I wish I could share your lack of cynicism, but I can't, he and DCC do not have to account for anything to anyone and they know it.

Quote:

The actions of Dublin City Council under his stewardship has allowed this scheme to proceed in the face of serious concerns from within and without the council chamber.

It is an utter disgrace. The people of Dublin have been sold out by DCC.

**Stark** · 07-07-2008, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MYOB

Its for the council to get free BIKES...

Nice. A bicycle should come in handy for colliding with pedestrians stepping out from behind billboards.

I don't think the bikes are even free tbh. I think you have to pay a deposit and rental fee for them.

OTK · 07-07-2008, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MYOB

Its for the council to get free BIKES...

The bikes are not free. JC Decaux have agreed to supply a bike rental service in Dublin in exchange for the right to display millions of euro worth of advertising on these dangerous signs for a number of years. There are only a small number of bikes involved. The terms of the agreement are secret due to 'commercial sensitivities'. Both JC Decaux and Dublin city council have long histories of corrupt activities.

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited...fx5055127.html
http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/1119/redmond.html

etc etc

IanCurtis · 07-07-2008, 12:52

I saw one of these in Rathmines the other day and couldn't work out what it was for - now I know.

It is a disgrace to say the least. As someone pointed out, all they do is get in the way.

It's only a matter of time before someone takes a sledgehammer to them.

Bards · 07-07-2008, 12:53

just sent the AA a mail making them aware of the thread. maybe we might see Conor Faughnan making a statement

MadsL · 07-07-2008, 12:57

Right folks - I'm on the warpath now. I need your help. That's YOU, not someone else - "Ask not what your city can do for you......" [I suggest posting a thanks to say you have done your part - oh and spread the word]

Below are the mobile numbers of the Inner City councillors who have bullied by dublin city management into accepting this deal with JC Decaux. If you feel as I do that this should be removed then call or text them: (send an email to your friends pointing them to this thread)

Don't wait for 'someone else' to do this, and don't rely on 'the media' - It's your city, and these are your councillers. Be polite - but insist on action NOW! (tonights full council meeting) before someone gets hurt. Tell them you will be watching tonight's council meeting on the web.
http://www.dublincity.public-i.tv/site/#webcast

Inner City Councillors:
Cllr Christy Burke 086 8126347
Cllr Aodhan O'Riordan 086 8190336
Cllr Mick Raffety 087 2351547
Cllr Tom Stafford 086 3036962
(I have left off Deputy Lord Mayor Emer Costello who has been very vocal on these)

Details of consistant failure to address this safety issue;
Dublin City Council at various fora have been repeatly warned of this danger.

John Henry of the Dublin Transportation Office warned Dublin City Council on 7th March 2007 (at the time planning applications were made) that this type of structure "constituted a traffic hazard" I have attached his letter to the Planning Office outlining the DTO stance on this type of structure and the dangers both to pedestrian safety and the risks of driver distraction.
http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00066031.pdf

On 9 th, 10th and 11th October, 2007 at the An Bord Pleanala Oral Appeal Hearing of the the grant of planning permission of 24 advertising structures again the submission of the Dublin Transportation Office highlighed their concern on basis of traffic hazard.

In relation to one case of the 24 that were brought before the board, that of a sign outside BDO Simpson Xavier on Mercer Street similarly sited at the kerb edge, Mr. Eoin Madden, Senior Engineer, Traffic & Roads, conceded the appeal;

"With regard to implications for the safety of pedestrians, Mr. Madden for the planning authority stated that the proposed sign would not pass a road safety audit and accepted the case made in the appeal at the oral hearing as endangerment to pedestrian safety in that the sign would block pedestrian views towards oncoming traffic exiting the two public carparks."
http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/rep...23/R223148.pdf

The Inspectors Report following the hearing re-enforced these public safety concerns:

"In spite of the cases made in the oral hearing submissions and the reference to the prevalence of similar signage in other cities, I am not convinced that adverse risk of distraction to motorists or other road and footpath users leading to endangerment of public safety can be eliminated."
http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/rep...23/R223101.pdf

Following the findings the concerns of the An Bord Pleanala Inspector were voiced in Council in March 2008, a report was requested on the Health and Safety aspects by Cllr Emer Costello in relation to these findings. To date that report has not been published.

Yet the planning authority have decided to take a 'suck it and see' approach to road safety, there is a perfectly adequate methodoly to conduct a Stage 2 road safety audit prior to construction, however in this case have opted to only insist on a Stage 3 road safety audit (in other words construction followed by audit - in the meantime while we are waiting for this audit, lives are endangered)

MadsL · 07-07-2008, 13:01

A repost .... just for reference...
Now this is just taking the p1ss.... Dorset St/Synott Place

Planning Montage - note the scale is wrong on the structure (compare height with traffic lights)

As erected;

Establishing shot - Spot the child in a buggy anyone (how about at 50kph?)

Stepping out...

Erected in the wrong place.

You have to be kidding me......

Quote:

5. The developer shall comply fully with the following requirements of the Roads & Traffic Planning Division; a) The proposed structure shall not impede any road signs, traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, vision along kerb edge lines or any other road infrastructure. This may require a slight adjustment in the proposed location as submitted.

Slight adjustment I would recommend here would be about 3 metres to the left....into a skip!

From the pedestrian crossing...taken whilst standing on the tactile ped crossing surface.....

Completely obscures cycle lane...

Motorists viewpoint

Spot the ped walking out?

This goes beyond the argument of advertising on our footpaths. This is criminal negligence on the part of DCC, JCDecaux and the contractor. Someone will die at this crossing unless this is removed NOW!

These structures have been slammed by the Dublin Transportation Office, described as a road safety hazard by An Bord Pleanala, a report on their safety has been requested by a city counciller to which no response has been given. If I were a lawyer representing a injury or death compensation claim at this point. I would also be citing the Corporate Manslaughter Bill 2007

Quote:

Grossly negligent management causing death:
A high managerial agent may be guilty of grossly negligent management causing death if he knew or ought to have known of a substantial risk of death or personal harm and failed to take reasonable efforts to eliminate that risk. Penalties for grossly negligent management include:

A fine; and/or
Up to 12 year's imprisonment; and or
A Disqualification Order whereby the managerial agent may be disqualified from acting in a management capacity by the court for a period not exceeding 15 years.

Breach of the order gives rise to a fine of €3,000,000 and/or 2 years imprisonment and/or further disqualification for 10 years.

MYOB · 07-07-2008, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTK

The bikes are not free. JC Decaux have agreed to supply a bike rental service in Dublin in exchange for the right to display millions of euro worth of advertising on these dangerous signs for a number of years. There are only a small number of bikes involved. The terms of the agreement are secret due to 'commercial sensitivities'. Both JC Decaux and Dublin city council have long histories of corrupt activities.

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited...fx5055127.html
http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/1119/redmond.html

etc etc

Free in the 'not costing the council cash' sense of free. Of course they'll find a way to screw over Joe Public in the process...

Metrobest · 07-07-2008, 17:32

I don´t think the signs are really that bad... come on.. think of the benefits. FREE BIKES!!!!!!

In cases where the signs may impair the view of traffic lights, overhead traffic lights should be erected, which are easier for drivers to see.

A few minor adjustments might be needed here and there, but the advertisements are pretty small anyway so they don´t get in the way. It´s the same situation in Paris and Brussels and nobody´s complaining there. No doubt if Dublin city council decided to pay for the system out of public money there would be an outcry, so the trade off for these subtle ads is a free bike system for the city like Bicing here in Barcelona or Velib in Paris. Cyclists numbers will multiply and the city council will have the mandate to increase facilities for cyclists in the city.

MadsL · 07-07-2008, 18:14

Just heard an emergency motion will be put to the Council tonight calling for a complete halt to all work until a Health and Safety review has been conducted.

Tune in ... they usually have to be taken before 9pm

Meeting just started

http://www.dublincity.public-i.tv/site/#webcast

Well done everyone!

07-07-2008, 10:21	#1
spockety Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tallaght Posts: 3,140 Adverts \| Friends Mod: DCU	JC Decaux signs start appearing - Shocking. This is already over on Motors, but I'm sure a lot of you don't read that forum regularly. It's pretty flabbergasting, and everyone with an interest in commuting and road safety in general should see what we're up against from our own authorities. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055329731

07-07-2008, 11:12	#2
AlekSmart Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,837 Adverts \| Friends	Incredible stuff.This just HAS to be stopped in it`s tracks immediately before the City Councils actions are DIRECTLY responsible for serious injury or death. Surely as City Manager,Mr Tierney is required to exercise some form of professional overview over his councils decisions ? Let there be NO doubt but that in the event of any such serious accident in the vicinity of these Advert Frames then the City Manager PERSONALLY will have to account for his PERSONAL decision to ignore and,it would appear,subvert the planning and approval process which is there to PREVENT scenario`s such as this occurring. The actions of Dublin City Council under his stewardship has allowed this scheme to proceed in the face of serious concerns from within and without the council chamber. Whilst I am prepared to live with that fact I most certainly am not prepared to accept what has materialized whereby a Statutory Body blatently ignores the rules of Commonsense and places it`s citizens at hugely increased risk of death or injury ! __________________ "We have no plans to do that" Last edited by AlekSmart; 07-07-2008 at 11:48.

07-07-2008, 12:53	#10
Bards Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Waterford City Posts: 1,527 Adverts \| Friends	just sent the AA a mail making them aware of the thread. maybe we might see Conor Faughnan making a statement __________________ www.051.ie/forum - For Serious discussions on the Issues that Matter in the 051 area www.se4u.org - Friends of the University for the South East

07-07-2008, 12:57	#11
MadsL Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: 4947 miles from Vegas...ten minutes from the Fitz. Posts: 2,241 Adverts \| Friends	Right folks - I'm on the warpath now. I need your help. That's YOU, not someone else - "Ask not what your city can do for you......" [I suggest posting a thanks to say you have done your part - oh and spread the word] Below are the mobile numbers of the Inner City councillors who have bullied by dublin city management into accepting this deal with JC Decaux. If you feel as I do that this should be removed then call or text them: (send an email to your friends pointing them to this thread) Don't wait for 'someone else' to do this, and don't rely on 'the media' - It's your city, and these are your councillers. Be polite - but insist on action NOW! (tonights full council meeting) before someone gets hurt. Tell them you will be watching tonight's council meeting on the web. http://www.dublincity.public-i.tv/site/#webcast Inner City Councillors: Cllr Christy Burke 086 8126347 Cllr Aodhan O'Riordan 086 8190336 Cllr Mick Raffety 087 2351547 Cllr Tom Stafford 086 3036962 (I have left off Deputy Lord Mayor Emer Costello who has been very vocal on these) Details of consistant failure to address this safety issue; Dublin City Council at various fora have been repeatly warned of this danger. John Henry of the Dublin Transportation Office warned Dublin City Council on 7th March 2007 (at the time planning applications were made) that this type of structure "constituted a traffic hazard" I have attached his letter to the Planning Office outlining the DTO stance on this type of structure and the dangers both to pedestrian safety and the risks of driver distraction. http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00066031.pdf On 9 th, 10th and 11th October, 2007 at the An Bord Pleanala Oral Appeal Hearing of the the grant of planning permission of 24 advertising structures again the submission of the Dublin Transportation Office highlighed their concern on basis of traffic hazard. In relation to one case of the 24 that were brought before the board, that of a sign outside BDO Simpson Xavier on Mercer Street similarly sited at the kerb edge, Mr. Eoin Madden, Senior Engineer, Traffic & Roads, conceded the appeal; "With regard to implications for the safety of pedestrians, Mr. Madden for the planning authority stated that the proposed sign would not pass a road safety audit and accepted the case made in the appeal at the oral hearing as endangerment to pedestrian safety in that the sign would block pedestrian views towards oncoming traffic exiting the two public carparks." http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/rep...23/R223148.pdf The Inspectors Report following the hearing re-enforced these public safety concerns: "In spite of the cases made in the oral hearing submissions and the reference to the prevalence of similar signage in other cities, I am not convinced that adverse risk of distraction to motorists or other road and footpath users leading to endangerment of public safety can be eliminated." http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/rep...23/R223101.pdf Following the findings the concerns of the An Bord Pleanala Inspector were voiced in Council in March 2008, a report was requested on the Health and Safety aspects by Cllr Emer Costello in relation to these findings. To date that report has not been published. Yet the planning authority have decided to take a 'suck it and see' approach to road safety, there is a perfectly adequate methodoly to conduct a Stage 2 road safety audit prior to construction, however in this case have opted to only insist on a Stage 3 road safety audit (in other words construction followed by audit - in the meantime while we are waiting for this audit, lives are endangered) __________________ Stop dangerous signs on OUR footpaths Video Blog and interviews DCC's deal called "a pig in a poke" How to kill pedestrians and still make €185 million

07-07-2008, 18:14	#15
MadsL Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: 4947 miles from Vegas...ten minutes from the Fitz. Posts: 2,241 Adverts \| Friends	Just heard an emergency motion will be put to the Council tonight calling for a complete halt to all work until a Health and Safety review has been conducted. Tune in ... they usually have to be taken before 9pm Meeting just started http://www.dublincity.public-i.tv/site/#webcast Well done everyone! __________________ Stop dangerous signs on OUR footpaths Video Blog and interviews DCC's deal called "a pig in a poke" How to kill pedestrians and still make €185 million

07-07-2008, 12:12	#3
markf909 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 453 Adverts \| Friends	Surely the Guards can be notified of this? If they can be responsible to the placing of bus poles then they ought to be able to do something about this calamity.

07-07-2008, 12:18	#4
paulm17781 Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,163 Adverts \| Friends	Out of curiosity, why are these even here? Is it for the council to get some extra revenue? They're awful looking things, I've seen 2 so far and they do an excellent job of being in the way.

07-07-2008, 12:52	#9
IanCurtis Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: In situ in the liquor parlour Posts: 980 Adverts \| Friends	I saw one of these in Rathmines the other day and couldn't work out what it was for - now I know. It is a disgrace to say the least. As someone pointed out, all they do is get in the way. It's only a matter of time before someone takes a sledgehammer to them.

07-07-2008, 17:32	#14
Metrobest Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 1,041 Adverts \| Friends	I don´t think the signs are really that bad... come on.. think of the benefits. FREE BIKES!!!!!! In cases where the signs may impair the view of traffic lights, overhead traffic lights should be erected, which are easier for drivers to see. A few minor adjustments might be needed here and there, but the advertisements are pretty small anyway so they don´t get in the way. It´s the same situation in Paris and Brussels and nobody´s complaining there. No doubt if Dublin city council decided to pay for the system out of public money there would be an outcry, so the trade off for these subtle ads is a free bike system for the city like Bicing here in Barcelona or Velib in Paris. Cyclists numbers will multiply and the city council will have the mandate to increase facilities for cyclists in the city.

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