"GLuas" to be unveiled for Galway

dmeehan · 05-06-2008 9:18am #1

Link: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ambitious-plan-to-give-galway-its-own-gluas-trams-1398547.html?r=RSS

GALWAY could have its own light rail system called Gluas up and running within three years and at a cost of just €200m.

It will be cheaper than the capital's Luas system, which began in 2001 and ended up costing €775m.

Ambitious plans to build a 21km network of three lines with 64 stations serving the east and west of the city will be unveiled next Monday.

Proposers claim the system will need just 12,000 passengers a day to break even. And unlike the Dublin system, all three lines would actually link up.

The first line would have a park-and-ride site at the western end of the Western Distributor Road in Knocknacarra, running to Bishop O'Donnell Road and Westside, before crossing the River Corrib at the Quincentennial Bridge.

It would continue to Bohermore and past the G Hotel onto the Dublin Road, with a depot at Merlin Park.

The second line would have a park-and-ride site at Dangan/Bushypark -- linking with the first line at the Quincentennial Bridge -- then down the Newcastle Road to serve NUI Galway and UCH Galway.

The tram would travel down University Road and across the Salmon Weir Bridge before going up Eglington Street to Eyre Square.

It would continue to Prospect Hill and out the Tuam Road before making its way to another park-and-ride site at Briarhill to serve Ballbrit Industrial Estate and Galway Racecourse. The third line would run from Westside -- linking with the first line -- and then into the city centre.

prendy · 05-06-2008 9:25am

looks like a very good idea and would make traffic in Galway alot lighter but 3 years in seriously ambitious for the project.

dmeehan · 05-06-2008 9:32am

are they serious about calling it the Gluas? is today April 1st?

gaf1983 · 05-06-2008 9:50am

It looks great. Who is funding it?

fitzyshea · 05-06-2008 11:31am

gaf1983 wrote: »

It looks great. Who is funding it?

Not the government anyway as its not in transport 21

Hecate · 05-06-2008 11:35am

Weren't similar systems proposed by the RPA for Cork and Galway a number of years back?

Anyway, I reckon it's a good idea because it encourages competition between the various cities - which is always beneficial, eg: "Galway has a light rail system why can't we have one etc.?"

ga2re2t · 05-06-2008 12:13pm

And what about the city's bus network? Will it remain in the state it is? A Luas will look pretty and all, but the money could be better spent on creating a state of the art city bus network. But light rail is in fashion at the moment, and shiny new trams make better photo ops for politicians and the like.

And how, may I ask, do they plan to build 21 km of light rail with 64 stations on a budget of just 200 million euros?!! Have they included the cost of the trams in that estimate?

Have they sorted out an integrated ticketing system for Galway yet?

It all seems fishy and messy to me. Sorry for the negativity, but hey, this thread needed a negative post for a bit of balance!

serfboard · 05-06-2008 1:36pm

ga2re2t wrote: »

And what about the city's bus network? Will it remain in the state it is? A Luas will look pretty and all, but the money could be better spent on creating a state of the art city bus network. But light rail is in fashion at the moment, and shiny new trams make better photo ops for politicians and the like.

And how, may I ask, do they plan to build 21 km of light rail with 64 stations on a budget of just 200 million euros?!! Have they included the cost of the trams in that estimate?

Have they sorted out an integrated ticketing system for Galway yet?

It all seems fishy and messy to me. Sorry for the negativity, but hey, this thread needed a negative post for a bit of balance!

Agreed. The costing seems way off considering what the Luas ended up costing. I think they came in on the cheap end in the hope of catching the eye and garnering support.

Also agree about the buses. For 200 million, you could have an absolutely fantastic bus system in Galway, with QBCs (give one lane of the dual carriageways around Galway to buses), Park n' Ride etc.

CtrlSource · 05-06-2008 1:46pm

ga2re2t wrote: »

But light rail is in fashion at the moment, and shiny new trams make better photo ops for politicians and the like.

And how, may I ask, do they plan to build 21 km of light rail with 64 stations on a budget of just 200 million euros?!! Have they included the cost of the trams in that estimate?

Have they sorted out an integrated ticketing system for Galway yet?

It all seems fishy and messy to me. Sorry for the negativity, but hey, this thread needed a negative post for a bit of balance!

Negativity much?! Photo ops for politicians is hardly a motivation for this project!

serfboard wrote: »

For 200 million, you could have an absolutely fantastic bus system in Galway, with QBCs (give one lane of the dual carriageways around Galway to buses), Park n' Ride etc.

Give one lane of dual carriageways to buses? i hope you're suggesting the hard shoulder

ga2re2t · 05-06-2008 2:00pm

Found some further info on the following website:
http://www.nuigalway.ie/civileng/news/gluas.html

The PowerPoint presentations are very minimalist, to say the least, but you can get the general jist of them. Interesting to read about the LR55 type track and the Sheffield field test of this type of track.

http://www.lr55.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramway_track#LR55_system

I'm being converted to the optimistic side!

Zoney · 05-06-2008 2:13pm

ga2re2t wrote: »

And what about the city's bus network? Will it remain in the state it is? A Luas will look pretty and all, but the money could be better spent on creating a state of the art city bus network. But light rail is in fashion at the moment, and shiny new trams make better photo ops for politicians and the like.

How do you improve the bus service when traffic is a disaster? Bus lanes don't work unless unlike Dublin you actually completely rebuild junctions, traffic signals etc. to give bus priority, and probably have to widen roads to avoid the incidences of the bus lane disappearing on narrow sections (resulting in merging for the bus). Also you have to build proper bus bays, lay on more buses (possibly double deck or extra long, and those have delays without expensive new ticketing arrangements).

All in all, if there are routes where there would have to be a very serious bus service (especially as increased service levels/reliability would result in more passengers) - it entirely makes sense to focus on trams rather than spend a fortune upgrading a creaking bus service, or spending a modest amount but for really very little change at all (possibly none if passenger levels increase in response to increased services).

I do not have first-hand experience of Galway's situation, but in Limerick ,the three main arterial routes would be better served by tram. The plan for now is bus lanes, but they will have little effect despite costing a fair bit, as really it would be necessary to widen roads to allow bus lanes both directions (and indeed additional traffic lanes as well at blackspots like Childers road, punches cross, Ennis Road). If they did spend the money on the latter improvements, they may as well go for trams rather than try to run buses frequently enough and high enough capacity.

John_C · 05-06-2008 2:52pm

I'm not from the city but how much of Galway's traffic is generated within the city and how much comes from people living outside and driving into Galway from Tuam or wherever to get to work? Convincing someone to take a bus from saltill to the city is a very different task to convincing someone who's already done most of their journey in a car to park it and get a bus for the last 2 miles, especially if you have to pay to park.

markpb · 05-06-2008 3:13pm

John_C wrote: »

I'm not from the city but how much of Galway's traffic is generated within the city and how much comes from people living outside and driving into Galway from Tuam or wherever to get to work? Convincing someone to take a bus from saltill to the city is a very different task to convincing someone who's already done most of their journey in a car to park it and get a bus for the last 2 miles, especially if you have to pay to park.

The main reason for it would be to encourage high density buildings around the LRT meaning more people don't have to travel in from outside the city. If people still want to, they'll have to accept that they're second class (transport) citizens and will probably face a loss of road capacity.

the_abused_dog · 05-06-2008 4:25pm

it would be nice but proabably compulsory purchase will be required and that takes a long long time. I feel strongly about giving state resources over to a private company for profit so I believe the state should hold onto the ownership of the rails and tender for the development of same and then tender the operation of the gluas every five years. At least if it doesn't get 12000 a day it cant just cut services to peak time and busy lines only

I live in Renmore and buses are few and far between. Sometimes they are early and sometimes they are late. But i do use it come hail rain or shine. What will happen to the bus service and staff if the gluas becomes reality?

road_high · 05-06-2008 4:34pm

Don't meant to rain on anybodys parade here but is a Galway not a bit small to warrant such a line? Hard to see how it could break even and pay for itself based on a city of 70-75,000 people.

Húrin · 05-06-2008 4:50pm

"21km network of three lines with 64 stations"

three stations per kilometre? :pac:

05-06-2008 5:15pm

mfitzy wrote: »

Don't meant to rain on anybodys parade here but is a Galway not a bit small to warrant such a line? Hard to see how it could break even and pay for itself based on a city of 70-75,000 people.

I can think of a few UK towns that shelved the Idea of trams as the towns were too small, Northampton for one (pop 150,000).

lostexpectation · 05-06-2008 5:22pm

wheres the gbus group, will the gluas group noble the gbus group or the gbus gtram group?

EJLL · 05-06-2008 5:49pm

dmeehan wrote: »

are they serious about calling it the Gluas? is today April 1st?

I think Gluas is quite a catchy name..... apart from the obvious reference to the Dublin "Luas", it is kinda similar to the Irish word "Gluaistean"

05-06-2008 6:07pm

With the present traffic it should be called GMall

Chris_533976 · 05-06-2008 10:16pm

A Cork one would be the best -> Cluas

L1011 · 05-06-2008 10:40pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

A Cork one would be the best -> Cluas

Bet me to it, dammit. At least they'd be able to get away with a second-hand logo - cut out the company name anyway

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Be.svg

ga2re2t · 06-06-2008 5:19pm

Zoney wrote: »

Bus lanes don't work unless unlike Dublin you actually completely rebuild junctions, traffic signals etc. to give bus priority, and probably have to widen roads to avoid the incidences of the bus lane disappearing on narrow sections (resulting in merging for the bus). Also you have to build proper bus bays, lay on more buses (possibly double deck or extra long, and those have delays without expensive new ticketing arrangements).

YES! You hit the nail on the head. That's how you build a proper bus lane. And they work when they're done right, without incurring the capital cost of a tram system and being cheaper to update and maintain than a tram system. It's much simpler to find cash for an extra few buses than for an extra tram.

All in all, if there are routes where there would have to be a very serious bus service (especially as increased service levels/reliability would result in more passengers) - it entirely makes sense to focus on trams rather than spend a fortune upgrading a creaking bus service, or spending a modest amount but for really very little change at all (possibly none if passenger levels increase in response to increased services).

That's the problem, a dedicated bus corridor is not as "sexy" as a Luas line so it's a lot more difficult politically to get proper funding for bus corridors. The temptation with bus corridors is to cut corners, whereas a tram line has to be built to spec or it's a complete disaster.

In my previous post I mentioned that they are thinking of using LR55 rail for Gluas. If that really is a possibility then it changes the discussion a bit as the capital costs will be much lower than for the Luas. However, the big question is can such a tram system be profitable. My experience of Galway is that it is just too small to sustain a Luas type tramway. In my opinion, the plans need to be more modest, but with ample future proofing for upgrading to higher capacity.

spacetweek · 06-06-2008 6:55pm

My take here is that although I'm glad someone is proposing public transit investment for Galway, I think Luas is overspecced. In the Netherlands where they provide trams for towns at the drop of a hat, they still don't build them for towns the size of Galway. Eindhoven for example has an urban population of 440000 but they only have BRT.

Having said that of course a reservation should be left for the line as the city expands. In addition future expansion of the city should be directed east not west. And a future 3-line network? God Dublin doesn't even have 3 luas lines yet!

ga2re2t I'm interested to know what LR55 is and why it's a big deal?

transylman · 06-06-2008 7:52pm

Galway has major transport problems but the last thing it needs is a tram network. Instead of this the focus should be on
1. A decent bus system (right now it has the worst city bus system in the country)
2. A ring road around the city (already planned but seemingly postponed)
3. Bypasses of all bottlenecks leading into the city
4. A planning strategy as opposed to the current free for all

Chris_533976 · 06-06-2008 8:05pm

City buses in Galway are better than Cork or Limerick IMO. Half the problem is delays on Bishop O Donnell Road and the fact that the entire city centre shouldnt have cars in it. Buses, taxis and pedestrians only with some good orbital carparks would do it.

Get the outer ring road built.

Get a local Claregalway bypass built, not just the motorway.

Have a more suburban bus service to bring people in from satellite towns.

Stop this Gluas rubbish. Its a good idea in theory, but massively underestimated costs. Spend 200million on buses and you'll have a much better system.

Galway can be sorted out fairly easily, theres just too many idiots in charge.