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Coconut Oil- good choice?

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    #2
    EileenG
    Registered Users Posts: 5,775 ✭✭✭EileenG


    I'm a fan of coconut oil. If you are on a low carb diet, this acts like a carb and gives quick energy before a workout. It also has a definite thermogenic effect.

    No direct experience, but I've heart a lot of people say it helps keep your thyroid healthy and is wonderful if you have IBS.

    It's also great for cooking at high temperatures.

    You can get it in a lot of different places in Dublin. You can buy the cheap kind for around 1.60 a jar in the Asian market, and that's fine for cooking. You can get small jars of virgin CO in the health food shop in Wicklow street (Nourish?) for around a fiver. And bigger jars or tubs in various other places for more money. There's a small supermarket in Capel street near Nutrition Connection which has bottles of flavoured virgin CO. I was strongly advised not to try the jackfruit. The Virgin stuff has a faint coocnut smell and flavour, and you can eat it off a spoon or add it to desserts or coffee.


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    #3
    ApeXaviour
    Registered Users Posts: 5,523 ✭✭✭ApeXaviour


    The info he gives in his video is all pretty solid, standard and up-to-date good science. It may not have entirely caught up with the media yet, or if it has then only in a pointless tertiary marketing sense (omega 3 flora for example... Will somebody PLEASE just shoot them now?)

    I'd just like to make a couple of points. The first thing he says is that your omega3:omega6 ratio is the most crucial thing when it comes to fats, and he's right. Supplementing with pharmaceutical grade fish oil (while reducing vegetable, sunflower oil, margarines) is without a doubt the most effective method of doing that.

    He's right about polyunsaturated oils (vegetable oil, soy oil, sesame oil, walnut oil, sunflower, linseed... basically any seed or nut oil) not being very good to cook with. Olive oil (not the extra virgin type) is monounsaturated and fine IMO to fry with at low temperatures, but I'll usually use butter or lard if I ever want to fry at higher temperatures.

    People are probably cringing at the above. But next he says saturated fats have been unfairly vilified, and he's correct in that too. The Maasai for example have about a 60% saturated fat diet and yet have amazingly good blood lipid (cholesterol) profiles. The same can't be said for their cousins living in Nairobi who have more westernised low fat diets. Still in saying that, it probably would be a bit better to cook with coconut/MCT oil than lard.

    Some saturated fats are better than others? Yep, coconut oil contains MCTs (medium chain triglycerides). Your body loves these because they require little effort for your metabolism to absorb or utilise. Studies show that in high amounts, MCT oil really helps reduce bodyfat. Though the jury is still out as to whether it would help at all in more reasonable amounts.

    Supplementing MCT or coconut oil can basically help people who want to maintain ketosis (a state your body goes into on a very low carb diet) more easily, i.e. they can eat a little more fruit etc. I've yet to try it myself, but I fully intend my next order from iherb.com to have a jar of this lovely stuff.


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    #4
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Thanks for the posts, great info
    EileenG wrote: »
    You can get it in a lot of different places in Dublin. You can buy the cheap kind for around 1.60 a jar in the Asian market, and that's fine for cooking.
    I thought I saw some in one asian shop alright, it looked all separated, wasnt sure if it was virgin, or if that matters much. One thing to watch for in the asian shops is oil blends. A lot of sesame oil is just a blend of sesame and veg. If it doesnt clearly say 100% sesame/coconut oil on the bottle it is probably a mixture.
    ApeXaviour wrote: »
    Still in saying that, it probably would be a bit better to cook with coconut/MCT oil than lard.
    Would you say lard is better than say veg oil, sunflower or rapeseed, for high temp frying?

    I signed up to that website a while ago, can't remember why, and you get emails with all sorts of topics. Good to know he is not talking crap trying to flog stuff.

    Your iherb site mentions palm oil, is that any use? I have definitely seen that in asian shops.


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    #5
    EileenG
    Registered Users Posts: 5,775 ✭✭✭EileenG


    I would use lard for high temperature frying. Just think of frying your bacon, then cooking the egg in the fat. Added fats make it easier for your body to absorb all the good stuff in green vegetables.


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    #6
    ApeXaviour
    Registered Users Posts: 5,523 ✭✭✭ApeXaviour


    rubadub wrote: »
    Would you say lard is better than say veg oil, sunflower or rapeseed, for high temp frying?
    Absolutely. I don't think I'm even being controversial in saying that. PUFAs (polyunsaturated fatty acids) are chemically unstable and can turn into all sorts of nasty things if cooked at too high a temp. Personally I'd say lard or butter before vegetable oil in general (just cos it won't mess with your omega 3:6 ratio), but then I'd be one of those with an extreme opinion I guess.
    rubadub wrote: »
    I thought I saw some in one asian shop alright, it looked all separated, wasnt sure if it was virgin, or if that matters much. One thing to watch for in the asian shops is oil blends. A lot of sesame oil is just a blend of sesame and veg. If it doesnt clearly say 100% sesame/coconut oil on the bottle it is probably a mixture.
    Actually a couple of hours ago I got a jar in the Oriental Emporium on George's St. €2.80 for 500ml. It says it's 100% pure coconut oil and looks like a jar of solid lard tbh.

    I don't fry much, and it's much too solid (unappetising) to use as a supplement. Plus I'd really rather supplement refined MCT oil rather than just something rich in them. Still good to have for when I do fry. But for the meanwhile I got some coconut cream in the same shop. Gonna start putting it in the protein shakes, I'll let ye know if I suddenly get leaner as a result ;)
    rubadub wrote: »
    Your iherb site mentions palm oil, is that any use? I have definitely seen that in asian shops.
    I've never really heard of palm oil.
    :: wikigoogles ::
    In chemical terms it looks like what you'd get if you mixed 25% lard, 25% coconut oil with 40% olive oil and 10% veg oil. I suppose healthwise it ain't the worst. But personally I wouldn't fry with it, at high temp the PUFAs present may still oxidise.
    Also iherb sells a lot of crap.


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    #7
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    ApeXaviour wrote: »
    Absolutely. I don't think I'm even being controversial in saying that. PUFAs (polyunsaturated fatty acids) are chemically unstable and can turn into all sorts of nasty things if cooked at too high a temp.
    I used to cook in lard, and loved the taste. It is only since reading this I now remember it didnt smoke. I usually stir fry at very high temps. I gave it up presuming it was bad, seems to get bad press, saturated animal fat. But like all things the marketers seem to have skewed the truth. U have heard comments about chipper like "they used to cook the chips in lard! crazy heartattack stuff". Have to give it a go again.

    ApeXaviour wrote: »
    Actually a couple of hours ago I got a jar in the Oriental Emporium on George's St. €2.80 for 500ml. It says it's 100% pure coconut oil and looks like a jar of solid lard tbh.
    Must nip in and get some. I think I saw some in the "sari sari" store in Dun Laoghaire, oppostie Walters pub. It is a philipino shop. Did look like a solid block with a clear liquid on top.
    ApeXaviour wrote: »
    I got some coconut cream in the same shop. Gonna start putting it in the protein shakes, I'll let ye know if I suddenly get leaner as a result ;)
    Coconut cream is very nice in curry dishes, if it doesnt go well in the shakes.


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    #8
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Couldn't find lard on sale anywhere. Might just save some grease from baking some pork or rashers, thats the same thing right?

    I got some 100% coconut oil in the country cellar health shop in Dun Laoghaire (none in the Filipino shop), €1.70 for 250ml,


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    #9
    ApeXaviour
    Registered Users Posts: 5,523 ✭✭✭ApeXaviour


    Weird, I guess it's gone out of popularity in this day and age. It is similar, though the makeup of the fats in the lard completely depend on what the pig was fed, what part of the body it comes from etc. So if you're making lard, try get organic/naturally raised pork sans antibiotics or hormones like.

    In the book beside me (Good Fat, by Fran McCullough, a pres I'm going to give to the mother) it suggests: "Chop the pork fat into small cubes, discarding any bits of tough skin. Mince the fat a handful at a time in the food processor. Place the fat in a heavy ovenproof skillet on the top shelf and bake of a preheated oven (325F it says) for 20 to 25 mins. Or until the fat has rendered out. The crunchy bits left over taste good in salad. Pour lard into container, seal tightly, and keep in the refrigerator. It will keep almost indefinitely."

    Personally I wouldn't use bacon grease because of the nitrates.

    If you have coconut oil then that'll do if you're stuck right?


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    #10
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    ApeXaviour wrote: »
    If you have coconut oil then that'll do if you're stuck right?
    Yeah, just haven't tried it and was unsure of the taste, very little smell off it though. I like the taste of lard.

    I get your point on the bacon, I dont eat it much due to all the salt. Might get some pork chops, I usually cut the fat off and throw it away off them. Might leave it on or separate it.

    Might have to try some butchers for lard, like Hicks. I have seen tripe in some of them so somebody is still buying stuff like that. It used to be in tescos along side the butter.


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    #11
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    I read somwere that coconut oil is supposed to be good for nail fungus infections ? :confused:


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    #12
    EileenG
    Registered Users Posts: 5,775 ✭✭✭EileenG


    Coconut oil is anti fungal.

    You can still buy lard in most of the Polish shops. Also cream of varying fat percentages so if you like cream, but not 365 cals per 100ml, you can get lower fat cream at half the cals.


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    #13
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    EileenG wrote: »
    Coconut oil is anti fungal.

    You can still buy lard in most of the Polish shops. Also cream of varying fat percentages so if you like cream, but not 365 cals per 100ml, you can get lower fat cream at half the cals.

    Intresting for sombody i know who has a nail infection .


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    #14
    cozmik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 984 ✭✭✭cozmik


    rubadub wrote: »
    I was reading
    http://products.mercola.com/coconut-oil/

    He is obviously flogging his own brand, but is there much truth in all the claims.

    I see he has received some warnings from the FDA.

    http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html


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    #15
    ApeXaviour
    Registered Users Posts: 5,523 ✭✭✭ApeXaviour


    Good post cozmik, it's well to know these type of things.

    The warnings don't mean what he's claiming is necessarily untrue (though they might well be), just that research hasn't come to any conclusions over them.

    The man's obviously a little sensationalist, and clearly trying to make a buck. But a lot of what he says makes sense, and I'd be very wary of ignoring (or doing the opposite of) what he says just because he's zealous.


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    #16
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    ApeXaviour wrote: »
    The man's obviously a little sensationalist,
    He is, some of the other stuff he comes up with seems a little bizarre and over the top.

    Another poster in another thread was doubting claims since it was from a Filipino medical journal.

    vhi has a bit on MCTs and coconut oil
    http://www2.vhi.ie/GetHerbContent.do?primerid=21809&name=Medium-Chain+Triglycerides


    and then warns against it here

    http://www2.vhi.ie/topic/weightlossclass4


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    #17
    cozmik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 984 ✭✭✭cozmik


    rubadub wrote: »

    I thought I saw some in one asian shop alright, it looked all separated, wasnt sure if it was virgin, or if that matters much.

    According to this article it does matter.

    http://weeksmd.com/?p=495

    It may say "100% pure coconut oil" on the label but that doesn't guarantee it's trans-free.

    More info here
    http://health.msn.com/centers/cholesterol/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100143200

    http://www.pritikin.com/askexperts/001.shtml


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    #18
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Cheers. I have been reading more about coconut. Seems it is good for the liver, including damage done by alcohol, and I am a fairly heavy drinker.

    I have been mixing dessicated coconut in with, oats, whey and cold milk for breakfast, very nice, you get coconut in some muselis. It is readily available in most supermarkets, usually in the baking section along with sugar, cooking chocolate, icings. It is around 66% fat, think about €1.50 for 250g.

    I was thinking of making some coconut protein bars, like bounties! Maybe with a really thin layer of high cocoa chocolate.


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    #19
    ApeXaviour
    Registered Users Posts: 5,523 ✭✭✭ApeXaviour


    cozmik wrote: »
    It may say "100% pure coconut oil" on the label but that doesn't guarantee it's trans-free.
    Trans fat can only come from partial hydrogenation, and will only occur to polyunsaturated fatty acids, of which there are very little in coconut oil. I'm not sure why one would partially hydrogenate it, except in snacks as one of your links suggests. This process usually makes things more solidified, like vegetable oil -> margarine.

    I've a tub of "100% pure" here beside me from the oriental emporium on george's st (€2.80). I'm pretty sure there was no partial hydrogenation, simply because of the complete lack of necessity (it's solid...), I'm no more sure of this than I am of the butter in the fridge


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    #20
    EileenG
    Registered Users Posts: 5,775 ✭✭✭EileenG


    At the moment, Holland & Barret have tubs of coconut oil on sale, and Nourish on Wicklow Street has smaller jars available.


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    #21
    cozmik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 984 ✭✭✭cozmik


    How is Coconut Oil Produced?

    http://www.coconutdiet.com/what_is_virgin_coconut_oil.htm

    ETA

    How much coconut oil do you need? Here's the scoop according to Bruce Fife, author of "The Coconut Oil Miracle" from page 163-164 of his book.


    "Researchers have yet to determine precisely how much coconut oil is needed daily to gain optimal health benefit. However, on the basis of the amount of MCFAs [medium chain fatty acids] found in human breast milk, which is known to be effective in its role of protecting and nourishing infants, we can estimate the amount that may be suitable for adults. On the basis of this premise, an adult of average size would need 3-1/2 tablespoons (50 grams) of coconut oil a day to equal the proportion of MCFAs a nursing baby receives. The same amount of MCFAs can be obtained from 10 ounces of coconut milk or 7 ounces of raw coconut (about half a whole coconut).

    Studies have shown that the antimicrobial effects of MCFAs increases with the quantity used, so the greater the number of these infection fighting fatty acids available in our bodies, the greater our protection. Eating more should provide greater benefits, not only in preventing illness but in improving digestion and nutrient absorption, protecting against heart disease, and so on.

    It is not known for certain whether it is possible to consume too much coconut. Coconut oil is essentially non-toxic to humans. It is considered safer than soy, which many people eat by the pound. The FDA has included coconut oil on its list of foods that are "generally regarded as safe." We know that certain island populations consume large amounts of coconut oil, as much as 10 tablespoons a day, and have excellent health. This is far more than you would normally eat, so you probably don't need to worry about eating too much. Several clinical studies have shown MCFA levels up to at least 1 gram per each kilogram of body weight to be safe. For a 150-pound person that would equate to 5 tablespoons. For a 200-pound person that would be 6.5 tablespoons.

    My recommendation is for an adult to consume 2-4 tablespoons of coconut oil daily. This dose could be achieved through cooking, taking it as a supplement, or by applying it directly to the skin."


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    #22
    oldjude
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭oldjude


    Basically +1 to everything apexaviour said. I've done a lot of reading up on the benefits/drawbacks of various fats, and my understanding in general is good quality animal fats (not from processed products like bacon, sausage and pre-packed ham) are not only not bad for humans, but are essential to our immune/nervous system's function.

    The less cooking oils you eat, the better. Oils like, sunflower oil, corn oil and -the worst- vegetable oil are extremely bad for you WHEN COOKED, if you were to eat these oils cold pressed and in salads they would be a lot better, but they are almost unavailable on the market in cold pressed, organic form. So I would say (for cooking) stick to butter, coconut oil, lamb/beef/pork fat etc. Just as nature intended.


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    #23
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    oldjude wrote: »
    Basically +1 to everything apexaviour said. I've done a lot of reading up on the benefits/drawbacks of various fats, and my understanding in general is good quality animal fats (not from processed products like bacon, sausage and pre-packed ham) are not only not bad for humans, but are essential to our immune/nervous system's function.

    The less cooking oils you eat, the better. Oils like, sunflower oil, corn oil and -the worst- vegetable oil are extremely bad for you WHEN COOKED, if you were to eat these oils cold pressed and in salads they would be a lot better, but they are almost unavailable on the market in cold pressed, organic form. So I would say (for cooking) stick to butter, coconut oil, lamb/beef/pork fat etc. Just as nature intended.

    rapeseed oil?


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    #24
    feelgoodinc27
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭feelgoodinc27


    oldjude wrote: »
    The less cooking oils you eat, the better. Oils like, sunflower oil, corn oil and -the worst- vegetable oil are extremely bad for you WHEN COOKED, if you were to eat these oils cold pressed and in salads they would be a lot better, but they are almost unavailable on the market in cold pressed, organic form. So I would say (for cooking) stick to butter, coconut oil, lamb/beef/pork fat etc. Just as nature intended.

    What about using EVOO for cooking?


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    #25
    oldjude
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭oldjude


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    rapeseed oil?

    Rapeseed, or canola oil has vitamin E and is good for you as long as it's been cold pressed and is organic, same goes for olive oil. Once high heat has been applied to most foods, they lose their nutrients and go from being healthy to being harmful.

    Unfortunately, in a time when companies can't afford the bad press that could come from the slim chance that someone gets sick off their product, food is heat-treated, milk/cheese/pickles and many other foods are pasteurized, and as well as the bad bacteria, all of the good bacteria is killed off, leaving it useless to your gut/immune system.

    Solution? Make your own yogurt, fermented veg at home and eat fresh (and if possible, raw) veggies regularly, not forgetting good quality meats/fats. It's all about balance and moderation.
    feelgoodinc27 wrote: »
    What about using EVOO for cooking?

    I definitely would not advise it. Use olive oil on salads and as an ingredient to dips, or on it's own as a dip. Do not heat it, damaged fats are detrimental to ones health.


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    #26
    hellosunshine2
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭hellosunshine2


    I am Asian and as far as I know coconut oil is very good for us. Well aside from beauty benefits we can get from it, we can also have the benefits that this doctor tells us.


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    #27
    Mr. CooL ICE
    Registered Users Posts: 17,513 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    Found a 500ml tub of cocowel 100% in dunnes sandyford, dublin for €6 this morning. Will report back when i actually use it


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    #28
    Mshellster
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭Mshellster


    I just had a question about the different brands of coconut oil out there. I found KTC coconut oil in an Asian shop and tend to use that for cooking because it's cheaper and flavourless - sometimes I don't want the taste of coconut in certain dishes. I think it's refined not entirely sure but just wondering if it was good coconut oil and had similar health benefits to the extra virgin stuff or would you need to be using the latter to get any benefit? Thanks all


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    #29
    El_Dangeroso
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    Mshellster wrote: »
    I just had a question about the different brands of coconut oil out there. I found KTC coconut oil in an Asian shop and tend to use that for cooking because it's cheaper and flavourless - sometimes I don't want the taste of coconut in certain dishes. I think it's refined not entirely sure but just wondering if it was good coconut oil and had similar health benefits to the extra virgin stuff or would you need to be using the latter to get any benefit? Thanks all

    I'm beginning to thing the virgin coconut oil thing is a bit of a ruse tbh, Most of the benefits of coconut oil seem to stem from the MCT oils and lauric acid. Both of these are present in refined and unrefined coconut oil.


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    #30
    Colibri
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Colibri


    El_Dangeroso wrote: »
    I'm beginning to thing the virgin coconut oil thing is a bit of a ruse tbh, Most of the benefits of coconut oil seem to stem from the MCT oils and lauric acid. Both of these are present in refined and unrefined coconut oil.

    Could the refining process somehow be bad? I don't know myself but I agree with you 100%. Lauric acid and the MCTs are in both, so apart from the strong taste in virgin/extra virgin, I don't see the difference either :)


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    #31
    El_Dangeroso
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    Colibri wrote: »
    Could the refining process somehow be bad? I don't know myself but I agree with you 100%. Lauric acid and the MCTs are in both, so apart from the strong taste in virgin/extra virgin, I don't see the difference either :)

    Coconut oil comprises the most stable fats in the world, so I reckon it can withstand a bit of refining. Refined coconut oil is a lot more versatile for cooking as it lacks the strong flavour of virgin too.


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