Nutty Green Party Driving Licence Proposal

mike65 · 04-01-2008 10:16am #1

Okay this takes the busicut, the Green Party TD for Carlow/Kilkenny Mary White has submitted a proposal for a "Rural" driving licence for people who find themselves isolated - it would be aimed at grannies.

Rural isolation is an isssue but this is just reckless, elderly people who have no driving history being allowed a sit for a "joke" licence for local rural rambling will make the roads more dangerous.

I doubt the idea will fly but that its getting an airing is worrying.

Mike.

Alun · 04-01-2008 10:29am

Full story here

http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=51811-qqqx=1.asp

Unbelievable. The comparison with graduated licences such as in NZ is pretty stupid though ... chalk and cheese.

L1011 · 04-01-2008 10:32am

I agree with the idea of such a concept but none of the implementation she suggested.... one of the issues with the new driving licence proposals is that they will make getting to education or work virtually impossible for *teenagers* in rural areas. Eldery people who are dangerous to drive are dangerous to drive, simple as, but theres huge amounts of competent 17/18 year old drivers either awaiting a test or recently passed in rural areas who rely on their cars for their everyday lives. However, if the new licencing rules stop them driving unaccompanied... bye bye job/college/possibly even leaving cert

So - a "no motorways, no city driving, speed limited to 80k, no night time" licence, sort of like US learner permits, would be an idea here. But not for old people who can't pass a test, just say 17-20 year olds who haven't been able to sit a test...

egan007 · 04-01-2008 10:36am

mike65 wrote: »

Okay this takes the busicut, the Green Party TD for Carlow/Kilkenny Mary White has submitted a proposal for a "Rural" driving licence for people who find themselves isolated - it would be aimed at grannies.

Rural isolation is an isssue but this is just reckless, elderly people who have no driving history being allowed a sit for a "joke" licence for local rural rambling will make the roads more dangerous.

I doubt the idea will fly but that its getting an airing is worrying.

Mike.

This assumes that the current licence system is not a joke.
(which it is)

unkel · 04-01-2008 11:18am

Embarrassing. At least Jackie Healy-Ray was funny when he came out with stuff like this

ednwireland · 04-01-2008 11:43am

just implement the currrent system now, get rid of the drivers who arent allowed to drive (under the current law) i.e. anyone not on a 2nd provisional licence shouldn't be on the road unaccompanied anyone who thinks rural roads are safer is kidding themselves, bad signage poor surfaces blind bends etc etc.
most accidents seem to happen on back roads
this is nuts

Stark · 04-01-2008 11:49am

However, the practical driving test for restricted licences would also be “restricted” — essentially to knowledge of local roads and driving conditions — and therefore be an “easier” test.

So just like the normal driving test then.

Victor · 04-01-2008 12:28pm

I propose that such licences be allowed, but restricted to non-motorised vehicles.

mike65 · 04-01-2008 12:36pm

Agree - cyclists should take a test.

Mike.

tbh · 04-01-2008 2:02pm

normally I can see the pros and cons for even the nuttiest proposals, but man....this is just stupid.

seamus · 04-01-2008 2:08pm

Yeah, completely ridiculous. I'm fairly sure that most politicians don't understand the current licencing conditions, never mind what's coming down the line.

Apparently there are 30,000 provisional drivers in this situation. Since this is around 10% of the provisional population, I'd say that figure has been inflated somewhat. The bulk of these people would *not* be on a second provisional and so are currently driving illegally anyway. Any new rules are irrelevant.

It's just another special case that will make us non-compliant with the EU. And it'll sit on the books despite the fact that most people in this situation will be dead or incapable of driving within 15 years.

All it takes is one 18 year old from Dublin to challenge it on the grounds of ageism or some other ism, and before you know it, anyone can drive on their own provided that they don't go above 80km/h and stick to "local roads".

Once again, it's a solution for a problem which doesn't really exist.

E92 · 04-01-2008 2:20pm

Surely the Greens are supposed to be stopping us from using cars, not encouraging it?

Orange69 · 04-01-2008 4:36pm

E92 wrote: »

Surely the Greens are supposed to be stopping us from using cars, not encouraging it?

Ya, shouldn't they be looking into a public transport model for rural communities instead..?

If they make the driving test any easier they may as well start handing them out in packets of cornflakes! Anyone who is incapable of passing the current joke of a test should not be on the road!

No wonder the standard of driving is the toilet!

Orange69 · 04-01-2008 4:44pm

MYOB wrote: »

So - a "no motorways, no city driving, speed limited to 80k, no night time" licence, sort of like US learner permits, would be an idea here. But not for old people who can't pass a test, just say 17-20 year olds who haven't been able to sit a test...

Do you really think people would actually stick to these rules? If this is implemented its another 2nd provisional loop hole waiting to happen..

L1011 · 04-01-2008 4:54pm

Orange69 wrote: »

Do you really think people would actually stick to these rules? If this is implemented its another 2nd provisional loop hole waiting to happen..

With proper enforcement (rolls on floor in fits of laughter) of course. :rolleyes:

The "2nd provisional loophole" gave you an entirely legitimate right to drive unaccompanied anywhere except motorways; this wouldn't.

Stark · 04-01-2008 4:55pm

MYOB wrote: »

The "2nd provisional loophole" gave you an entirely legitimate right to drive unaccompanied anywhere except motorways; this wouldn't.

I don't understand the point of it in that case. How would it be better than a standard learner's permit that allows the learner to gain experience of night-time driving and city driving while accompanied?

maidhc · 04-01-2008 5:07pm

Orange69 wrote: »

Ya, shouldn't they be looking into a public transport model for rural communities instead..?

Because it is unfeasible

Orange69 wrote: »

If they make the driving test any easier they may as well start handing them out in packets of cornflakes! Anyone who is incapable of passing the current joke of a test should not be on the road!

No wonder the standard of driving is the toilet!

If you are driving on country roads you already have to expect the unexpected.. this can range from farmers wives in aging Mondeos to a herd of sheep. I don't see how this heightens the risks to be honest.

L1011 · 04-01-2008 5:10pm

Stark wrote: »

I don't understand the point of it in that case. How would it be better than a standard learner's permit that allows the learner to gain experience of night-time driving and city driving while accompanied?

Referring to my mad proposal or Mary White's mad proposal? You'd still be allowed do those things accompanied on mine

daveirl · 04-01-2008 5:27pm

This post has been deleted.

whippet · 04-01-2008 5:34pm

I am horrified with even the suggestion of this. I listened to Mary White this morning and I got such a sense of gombeenism.

She was on about pensioners collecting perscriptions, grand children etc .. if they need to do this do what the rest of us have had to do, pass your feckin' test.

I don't buy all this crap about people being put off the road, my sister did her lessons, applied for the test and 12 weeks later has a full license. This was in finglas by the way. Why can't everyone else do it? As for those who sit and fail and then sit and fail again .. please learn to drive properly before taking a test slot on someone who has actually taken the time and effort to prepare and learn how to drive.

This proposal will never make it anyway, learner drivers as it is don't take any notice of their restrictied license (driving unacompanied, L Plates and driving on motorways) .. why does anyone think that this new breed of unqualified drivers will adheare to the rules.

_Kaiser_ · 04-01-2008 5:41pm

Yet another idiotic proposal from our out-of-touch governmenment - interestingly however it's being suggested that this is being used to soften us up to the idea of a two-tier drink/driving system for rural dwellers (it wasn't so long ago that certain quarters were suggesting that people living in the country should have the legal right to drive home from the pub after a few as it's their only social outlet etc).

Anyway, to propose that people who have failed their driving test (which lets face it, isn't exactly rocket science) after possibly several attempts and/or are elderly and currently unqualified to drive be allowed out on the roads on these so-called "restricted" licenses is ridiculous!

Mary White suggests that they will be limited to driving only during certain hours, in certain areas, and at certain speeds - but she seems to forget that there are other people besides these "old dears" on their way to the chemist or mass on the roads, and that these "R-drivers" would pose an even greater hazard to themselves and others if suddenly allowed out en-masse.

She also suggests that Insurance companies could be encouraged to allow these people lower rates as a further result of this proposal - not only then is she suggesting that unfit and higher-risk drivers be legally allowed on the roads, but that they should be fiancially rewarded as well??

Perhaps the best statement from her on Newstalk this morning though is that she sees this as reenforcing the idea that driving is a privilege, not a right - maybe in "opposite land" Mary, because what you're suggesting is in fact giving unqualified/unfit drivers the "right" to be on the roads regardless.

I haven't even mentioned enforcement, as we already know the Gardai can't (and have no interest in) doing people for breaking the existing laws... after all, it's far easier to nab them for doing a few km/h over on the dual-carriageway right? Plus it brings up the figures and lets them crow on about how "penalty points ARE working" :rolleyes:

Back to the drawing board folks.. better yet, back to the electorate because this current government seems to have lost the plot completely and it's arrogance defies belief in the face of rising unemployment, economic downturn , the ongoing healthcare crisis, and ever increasing crime and antisocial behaviour.

Orange69 · 04-01-2008 5:52pm

MYOB wrote: »

With proper enforcement (rolls on floor in fits of laughter) of course. :rolleyes:

The "2nd provisional loophole" gave you an entirely legitimate right to drive unaccompanied anywhere except motorways; this wouldn't.

What i mean is that the 2nd/3rd....15th provisional allows people to drive without passing their test.. This new moronic idea will allow people to drive having passed some kind of half assed mock test..

And don't kid yourself thinking that people will actually follow the restrictions.. this is Ireland..

maidhc wrote: »

Because it is unfeasible

How so? Its a lack of competence and political will that makes these things unfeasible not any practical reasons!

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

This is Ireland where gombeenism still rules. People wont view this as opportunity for rural people to drive, they will see it as a handy way of avoiding a proper test.

whippet wrote: »

I am horrified with even the suggestion of this. I listened to Mary White this morning and I got such a sense of gombeenism.

She was on about pensioners collecting perscriptions, grand children etc .. if they need to do this do what the rest of us have had to do, pass your feckin' test.

I don't buy all this crap about people being put off the road, my sister did her lessons, applied for the test and 12 weeks later has a full license. This was in finglas by the way. Why can't everyone else do it? As for those who sit and fail and then sit and fail again .. please learn to drive properly before taking a test slot on someone who has actually taken the time and effort to prepare and learn how to drive.

This proposal will never make it anyway, learner drivers as it is don't take any notice of their restrictied license (driving unacompanied, L Plates and driving on motorways) .. why does anyone think that this new breed of unqualified drivers will adheare to the rules.

I agree, if you cant pass a test then f*ck off.. Its not the states obligation to cater for people who cant drive properly or pass a simple test..

The fact that the dept of transport are actually considering this is what offends me.. We have a pure peanut gallery of a political class.

seamus · 04-01-2008 5:55pm

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

She also suggests that Insurance companies could be encouraged to allow these people lower rates as a further result of this proposal - not only then is she suggesting that unfit and higher-risk drivers be legally allowed on the roads, but that they should be fiancially rewarded as well??

Well to be fair, the AA said the drivers in this category (I'm assuming it's 55+, rural address and no full licence) don't even appear in the crash statistics. So to say that they're higher-risk is incorrect.

My argument would be that if they don't appear in the crash stats, then they should be perfectly capable of passing a test.

I still cannot see the logic behind, "Ah shure they can't pass the test God Bless 'Em". It's a bit like giving someone an honorary degree in English, just cos they like to teach it down the local school, even though they're incapable of passing the exams. Can't qualify == can't drive.

Orange69 · 04-01-2008 5:59pm

seamus wrote: »

I still cannot see the logic behind, "Ah shure they can't pass the test God Bless 'Em". It's a bit like giving someone an honorary degree in English, just cos they like to teach it down the local school, even though they're incapable of passing the exams. Can't qualify == can't drive.

Its this kind of mollycoddling that will be the downfall of this country.. Its the same with social welfare, public service jobs, politicians etc... Incompetence should not be tolerated yet alone rewarded..

whippet · 04-01-2008 5:59pm

as a matter of interest, where do most fatal accidents and serious accident happen? is it in urban centres? hhhmmm ... so putting more unqualified drivers on rural roads is adding fuel to the fire

seamus · 04-01-2008 6:10pm

whippet wrote: »

as a matter of interest, where do most fatal accidents and serious accident happen? is it in urban centres? hhhmmm ... so putting more unqualified drivers on rural roads is adding fuel to the fire

Their logic is that Mary will only be pottering down to the local shops to grab a few groceries and won't be going near any dangerous roads.
Of course when Mary pulls out from a side road onto a national road in front of 100km/h traffic, that's where the problems occur.

If they're going to the shops, let them walk with one of those old lady trolley yokes. It'll extend their life too.

eringobragh · 04-01-2008 8:16pm

This is even more ridulous then their lightbulb proposal. The Driving test is a simple test of competency, too easy if you ask me, if you can't pass it. TS.

AckwelFoley · 04-01-2008 8:23pm

bottom line is.. somthing has to be done, its all well trying to get these guys off the roads but they need to live and get to work.

Daft as anything the leftys normally suggest at least they are proposomg somthing..

rubadub · 04-01-2008 9:02pm

mike65 wrote: »

Agree - cyclists should take a test.

Mike.

And pedestrians- the worst offenders of road laws IME.

“What do you do in rural Ireland if there is no bus or train, and the hackney is an expensive option?” she asks.

Get the hackney, your house cost feck all. Are they going to get susbidised cars for the poor grannies condemned to be "city hermits" in places where rent/house prices are higher?

Stark · 04-01-2008 9:15pm

snyper wrote: »

bottom line is.. somthing has to be done, its all well trying to get these guys off the roads but they need to live and get to work.

Actually she's referring to retired people so the "I need it for work" line goes out the window

maidhc · 04-01-2008 9:56pm

rubadub wrote: »

Get the hackney, your house cost feck all.

Not worth a response...

Orange69 wrote:

How so? Its a lack of competence and political will that makes these things unfeasible not any practical reasons!

How can there be a useful public transport system in rural ireland? How does one implement it? Can I have a bus stop outside my door every 20 mins if I live 5 miles outside Ballydehob? Because this is the kind of flexibility people need if they are not to bother with a car!

Nutty Green Party Driving Licence Proposal

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