666 Mark of the Beast.

Run_to_da_hills · 18-07-2007 6:04pm #1

I saw this link on top of the Christianity forum. http://bibleprophesy.org/
I am aware this number has been hidden in the UPC / EAN barcode for over three decades now, however I personally don’t think the barcode is the mark of the beast. Is there anyone that takes this serious or has any other opinions?

robindch · 18-07-2007 6:29pm

RTTH wrote:

I am aware this number has been hidden in the UPC / EAN barcode for over three decades now, however I personally don’t think the barcode is the mark of the beast. Is there anyone that takes this serious or has any other opinions?

There are plenty of people out there who take this seriously. However, you can checkout the website of the guy who developed the UPC barcode, and he's written a small section section debunking this myth:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/l/a/laurergj/UPC/666quest.html

...and he's quite clear that the choice of the placement of vertical lines in a barcode has nothing to do with the devil, or the new testament, or god.

2Scoops · 18-07-2007 6:43pm

Those familiar with different Bible translations may wish to verify this, but I heard that some translations give the number as 616. A rose by any other name...

EDIT: Hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia - irrational fear of the number 666. Interesting fact for the day:)

PDN · 18-07-2007 7:06pm

2Scoops wrote:

Those familiar with different Bible translations may wish to verify this, but I heard that some translations give the number as 616. A rose by any other name...

EDIT: Hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia - irrational fear of the number 666. Interesting fact for the day:)

Yes, an early fragment of papyrus contains the relevant verse with 616. Out with the calculators again, lads!

Asiaprod · 19-07-2007 12:25am

PDN wrote:

Yes, an early fragment of papyrus contains the relevant verse with 616. Out with the calculators again, lads!

Do you know the name of that fragment, or do you have a link. Thanks.

PDN · 19-07-2007 7:39am

Asiaprod wrote:

Do you know the name of that fragment, or do you have a link. Thanks.

I understand that it rejoices in the distinctly unglamorous name of Papyrus Oxyrhynchus LVI 4499. Here's a link containing a description and a photograph: http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/beast616.htm

Fallen Seraph · 19-07-2007 12:53pm

I was under the impression that bible scholars were pretty confident in their interpretation that, whatever the number was, due to the equivalence between numbers and letters in the language of the original text it was a simple reference to the emperor Nero? Am I incorrect in this?

BrianCalgary · 19-07-2007 4:08pm

Fallen Seraph wrote:

I was under the impression that bible scholars were pretty confident in their interpretation that, whatever the number was, due to the equivalence between numbers and letters in the language of the original text it was a simple reference to the emperor Nero? Am I incorrect in this?

That is one of the interpretations. It is dependant on whether or you see Revelation as being future events or the fall of Jerusalem in AD72.

I did a talk on it a couple of years ago and discovered that Ronald Regan (whose middle name is also 6 letters) had been labelled the beast beacause of the number of letters in his name. Starnegly enough our youth pastor has 6 letters in each of his names, so I labelled him the anti-christ.

There are nervous nellies out there all over the place who look for the anti-christ under every rock. If they look hard enough they will find.

JimiTime · 19-07-2007 4:51pm

BrianCalgary wrote:

There are nervous nellies out there all over the place who look for the anti-christ under every rock. If they look hard enough they will find.

'The' antichrist? Antichrists, i.e. the plural is mentioned, putting the 'the' prefix there suggests that there is only one, when its not the case.

Run_to_da_hills · 19-07-2007 5:14pm

JimiTime wrote:

'The' antichrist? Antichrists, i.e. the plural is mentioned, putting the 'the' prefix there suggests that there is only one, when its not the case.

There is talk of "many" antichrists in 1 John 2:8, I don't think this is in connection with the "man of sin" which I believe is yet to come.

If This 616 theory is true would it mean Iron Maiden and all these other metal guitarists going back to their drawing boards?

Asiaprod · 20-07-2007 12:35am

PDN wrote:

I understand that it rejoices in the distinctly unglamorous name of Papyrus Oxyrhynchus LVI 4499.

Thanks, thats an interesting site for my studies.

PDN · 20-07-2007 7:44am

Revelation is the New Testament's only example of apocalyptic literature. Often this type of book would refer to current events in coded form. It is easy to see how possessing a book that openly named say, a current Roman Emperor as the anti-Christ could be a one-way ticket to execution. Both Hebrew and Greek had no numerals so used the letters of the alphabet instead (Aleph=1 Beth=2 Gimel=3 etc). This means that any name, when written in Hebrew or Greek, could have a numerical value.

A first century spelling of Nero's name in Hebrew would give you 666. This is probably the majority opinion among New Testament scholars. However, Irenæus (130-202 AD) in his Against Heresies identified 666 as referring to the Roman Empire as a whole on the basis that the Greek word lateinos (Latin speaking man) has a numerical value of 666.

I personally hold a different view. Given that so much in Revelation is rooted in Old Testament allusions and imagery, I tend to look for an Old Testament reference to 666 rather than some numerological code.

King Solomon was the king who reigned over Israel when it reached its largest territorial range of expansion, but he also overtaxed the people and subjected them to forced labour. This ultimately led to the political division of the nation into the divided kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Solomon received a tribute each year of 666 talents of gold (2 Chronicles 9:13). Therefore the 666 reference may be to a ruler who will promise to make Israel militarily strong but will do it by oppression and heavy taxation.

BrianCalgary · 20-07-2007 3:56pm

PDN wrote:

King Solomon was the king who reigned over Israel when it reached its largest territorial range of expansion, but he also overtaxed the people and subjected them to forced labour. This ultimately led to the political division of the nation into the divided kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Solomon received a tribute each year of 666 talents of gold (2 Chronicles 9:13). Therefore the 666 reference may be to a ruler who will promise to make Israel militarily strong but will do it by oppression and heavy taxation.

Very interesting insight.

Neurojazz · 20-07-2007 5:05pm

The only great beast i'm aware of on earth is MAN.
In some jewish mystic tradition 777 = the godhead, the fine point, the source etc... 666 = probably the only reference to the original scriptures that used an awful lot of numbers for things!

they had numbers for all the angels and the sephirotic influences that were deemed to be part of god... there is even 0 00 000 .. all weird and wacky stuff.. i find all the revalations stuff very, very odd.

Juza1973 · 21-07-2007 1:04pm

Note that the Verse starts with "Wisdom is need here": many of the people who tried to do an interpretation of it forgot the first phrase, probably because they lacked the humilty to consider if the Verse was referred to them.

Run_to_da_hills · 21-07-2007 2:17pm

PDN wrote:

Therefore the 666 reference may be to a ruler who will promise to make Israel militarily strong but will do it by oppression and heavy taxation.

The ultimate way to oppress and impose heavy taxation would be the removal of cash from society. Is it just a coincidence that there is also an advertisement for Irish Barcode solutions on top of the Christianity forum? http://www.visionid.ie/ It has an interesting link on the advantages of RFID technology.

Owen · 21-07-2007 6:07pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

The ultimate way to oppress and impose heavy taxation would be the removal of cash from society. Is it just a coincidence that there is also an advertisement for Irish Barcode solutions on top of the Christianity forum? http://www.visionid.ie/ It has an interesting link on the advantages of RFID technology.

No, it's no conincidence, it's called Google Adwords, they generate ads based on key words in the page the ads are to go on, in this case the word 'barcode' in in the thread, so an ad targetting potential barcode purchasers is automatically added.

Run_to_da_hills · 22-07-2007 6:20am

ned78 wrote:

No, it's no conincidence, it's called Google Adwords, they generate ads based on key words in the page the ads are to go on, in this case the word 'barcode' in in the thread, so an ad targetting potential barcode purchasers is automatically added.

Interesting, The word "Barcode" was not even mentioned as a heading. It just goes to show you that buzz words in your personal e-mails and text messages can be picked out in the exact same manner.

robindch · 22-07-2007 10:20pm

rtth wrote:

Interesting, The word "Barcode" was not even mentioned as a heading.

The words "barcode", "UPC" and "EAN" were in your first post on this thread and as boards.ie is indexed by google, the google backend will be able to forward the keywords to the ad server, delivering ads which are related to content on the page which requests the ads from google.

More on google adwords here:

https://adwords.google.com

Run_to_da_hills · 25-07-2007 8:10pm

Dose anyone believe that the verichip could be a possible candidate for the mark of the beast?

robindch · 25-07-2007 10:27pm

rtdh wrote:

Dose anyone believe that the verichip could be a possible candidate for the mark of the beast?

You're referring to this device from VeriChip, or this range of gizmos from BioMark. There are plenty of other manufacturers making similar useful gadgets.

BTW, from January next year, electronic tagging of sheep and goats will be mandatory within all EU countries including here in Ireland. The relevant EU Regulation is here, but there are currently no plans to tag people, as people are not a tradeable commodity requiring tracking within the EU at this time.

Regardless, the answer to your question is yes, there are plenty of people who believe that these devices are the "mark of the beast" and every one of them is mistaken.

JimiTime · 25-07-2007 10:34pm

Pardon my ignorance, but why is this considered by some to be the mark of the beast?

robindch · 26-07-2007 12:19am

JimiTime wrote:

Pardon my ignorance, but why is this considered by some to be the mark of the beast?

Because of some text in the NT which goes like this:

Revelation 13:16-18 wrote:

He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Or 616, I suppose.

Quite a few people believe that RFID tagging, and other similar technologies, are what this text is referring to. Hence the claim. Though RFID tags would not be placed on the right hand or forehead anyway. Inside the left wrist is a much more secure place.

What's funny about it is that nobody's yet linked mobile phones to this piece of text. I mean "the number of his name" and talk of having it in your right hand or up near your forehead and nobody being able to buy or sell without it? In the way these bizarre religious urban myths work, that's almost a dead cert. Remember -- you heard it here first!

This calls for wisdom -- indeed.

JimiTime · 26-07-2007 12:41am

^^ I never realised that scripture before. the whole thing of buying and selling etc. interesting. Fo those who say Nero was what was being referred to, did nero give a mark to folk in order to trade etc? Revelation is a great book to sink ur teeth into. Obviously not for a non-believer, as they just think its rubbish, but for the faithful, gr8 IMO!!!

Run_to_da_hills · 26-07-2007 3:35am

JimiTime wrote:

^^ I never realised that scripture before. the whole thing of buying and selling etc. interesting. Fo those who say Nero was what was being referred to, did nero give a mark to folk in order to trade etc? Revelation is a great book to sink ur teeth into. Obviously not for a non-believer, as they just think its rubbish, but for the faithful, gr8 IMO!!!

The 1611 King James Bible is the only translation in the English language to suggest the Mark of the beast to be placed IN the right hand or IN the forehead which would suggests something such as an RFID implant other than the barcode.

"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark IN their right hand, or IN their foreheads,

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six". Revelation 13 vs 16 to 18.

The following links are very interesting and show you the capabilities of RFID technology. It also gives you an indication that the bar-coding will soon become a thing of the past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVmD4iTXRLE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5bgEn8GVOk

RFID (Radio-frequency identification) technology is now being used in all international passports, the London Underground Oyster card, the controversial USA Real ID card, security passes, Visa and other credit card companies are experimenting with it. Some of these cards depending on whether they are passive RFID (capacitor) or active RFID (Battery) can be read from a few inches away to several feet away even if they are concealed in your wallet or pocket!

The standard Implantable RFID transponders manufactured by Verichip, Biomark and Digital Angel simiar to those that are used on animals consist of 4 parts, computer microchip, antenna coil, and capacitor and glass capsule approx 11mm long. A scanner activates the passive capacitor at 125 kHz.

JimiTime · 26-07-2007 9:40am

^^ And where does 666 come into such an equasion?

Run_to_da_hills · 26-07-2007 9:53am

JimiTime wrote:

^^ And where does 666 come into such an equasion?

The barcode has contained this number concealed in it since it was first introduced in June 1974 on a 10 pack of wrigleys chewing gum. http://www.av1611.org/666/barcode.html

Ciaran500 · 26-07-2007 10:05am

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

The barcode has contained this number concealed in it since it was first introduced in June 1974 on a 10 pack of wrigleys chewing gum. http://www.av1611.org/666/barcode.html

Did you not read the first reply to these claims at the start of the thread.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/l/a/laurergj/UPC/666quest.html

Owen · 26-07-2007 10:17am

No, Run_to_da_Hills is much more interested in fantastic claims, rather than actually researching anything of scientific merit.

I would imagine though, if RFID tags do become prevailent in the left wrist (For storing medical info, like a wristband, etc), there will be some lunatics who will assume that the Bible meant the right hand when viewed by another person - ie : Your left, my right. People can interpret these things any way they want.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-07-2007 10:35am

Ciaran500 wrote:

Did you not read the first reply to these claims at the start of the thread.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/l/a/laurergj/UPC/666quest.html

I have read George J. Laurer website before. He is also mentioned along with a link to his website in that article on barcodes in my previous post.

robindch · 26-07-2007 11:15am

rtdh wrote:

I have read George J. Laurer website before.

So what do you make of Laurer's website? Do you think that he specifically designed the barcodes so that they could be stuck to people's foreheads and hands? And if so, what do you make of the fact that this hasn't happened, and that barcodes are now on their way out?

666 Mark of the Beast.

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