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Nightclub closing hours vs how much we drink
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29-10-2006 6:05pm#1Anyone who has been on the streets of a major city in the country at 2:30am will know that people in this country drink far too much. I’ve been reading about the Give Us The Night campaign (http://giveusthenight.com/mandate.php) and I’m opening up some discussion on the closing hours of clubs versus the social disorder that follows it.
An example of their proposed closing hours goes like this:
They say that having the same closing hours for all nightclubs puts great pressure on fast food industry, emergency services and taxi services and that all of this is the main cause of public order offences. Lack of taxis and queues for food do not cause anti-social behaviour. People being off their faces when they get out of the club does. I don’t know how many of you have been around the streets sober when the clubs close but it’s a pretty scary and pathetic sight.- Pubs - stop serving alcohol 12 am
Close completely at 12.30 am - Late Bars - stop serving alcohol at 1.30 am
Close completely at 2 am - Nightclub Type 1
Stop serving alcohol at 3 am, close completely at 4 am - Nightclub Type 2
Stop serving alcohol at 4.30 am, close completely at 5.30 am
It’s true that we have the earliest closing hours for nightclubs in Europe, but we all know that having clubs serving until 4:30am in Ireland means people drinking until 4:30am. It would be chaos on a new level. You can blame the law all you want but this is one of the few countries where being absolutely plastered isn’t a taboo.
I’m not saying that they don’t have a point about everyone coming out of the clubs at the same time, but let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that’s the problem.
I’m proposing some changes in alcohol laws:- Beer/cider can be sold to people over 18, but spirits/whiskey etc can only be sold to those over 21. There comes a point for many people when drinking beers that if they drink any more they know they’re going to get sick. Spirits don’t really enforce that limit.
- Clubs should be allowed to stay open until 3am, but must stop serving at least an hour before they close. This ensures that people aren’t fooked when they leave the club.
- Make it mandatory to produce ID in an off-license (within obvious limits). This wouldn’t be such a big deal if certain things could only be sold to over 21s.
- Harsh penalties for those caught buying drink for minors.
0 - Pubs - stop serving alcohol 12 am
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grasshopa wrote:What do you all think?
I think you're completely wrong.
I believe there's a direct correlation between closing times and the drinking culture here in Ireland. The fact is, you go out to a club, say around 11 or 12, you've got a very limited time to enjoy yourself, and thus people feel the need to cram as much drink into themselves as is possible in the space of time provided in order to get drunk.
You're saying it would be "Chaos on a new level" if people were drinking untill 4:30. What you are doing is assuming that people will automatically be drinking at the same volume for an extended period of time. That isn't physically possible, because if people manage to get themselves completely plastered in 2 or 3 hours, they'd very quickly find themselves burned out.
If you've got more time, then that promotes a much more relaxed drinking enviroment.
I've been to plenty of places all over the world where opening times can be as late as 6 or 7 am. Always, the atmosphere is much more relaxed. That's because if you want to get drunk, there isn't the need to cram as much down you as possible, you can relax and take it easy, spread it out over the entire night. I remember a place in Tokyo, where we started drinking and after a while we went off to play some pool, then ping pong and whatever else, before going off and finding a corner to sit in and chat. So we were drinking quite a lot for the first couple of hours, we'd stopped drinking a couple of hours before heading off.
Anyway, I'm certainly not suggesting that if we had later opening hours that problems related would all of a sudden dissapear. It'd take time for people to get used to a more relaxed drinking atmosphere, and there would certainly be problems during the transition, but people would soon get used to it.
Imposing stricter conditions is ridiculous. There's nothing to say that someone 21+ isn't going to get as plastered as someone 18-20, so it's imposing senseless restrictions.0 -
I'm not sure what we could do to solve the problems here - whether what works in the rest of Europe would work here or not.
But I definitely don't think enforcing age restrictions beyond what we have will improve anything. I agree with Karl Hungus that people are as likely to go out and get drunk at any age. I get drunk quicker now than I did when I was 18 - don't know why but I do. As regards spirits/beers etc. - I become horribly drunk and act terribly with only one or two ciders but on spirtis I'm fine - I think it's more to do with the individual than an age.
As for closing times - I can only say from personal experience of being on holidays with large groups of people in their early twenties that although they might drink until serving stops they don't all necessarily drink more because they have longer to do it. I'm as likely to only have 5/6 vodkas in a nightclub closing at 6 in Greece as I am to have the same amount here in a nightclub closing at 2.30. Only in the first instance I'll have had them over longer a period and probably will only remain constantly merry and never actually hammered.0 -
It depends on how you define "enjoy yourself"Karl Hungus wrote:I believe there's a direct correlation between closing times and the drinking culture here in Ireland. The fact is, you go out to a club, say around 11 or 12, you've got a very limited time to enjoy yourself, and thus people feel the need to cram as much drink into themselves as is possible in the space of time provided in order to get drunk.
There is a limit to the amount you can actually consume. If someone enjoys themselves drinking say 6 pints between 9 and midnight, and then another 6 pints between midnight and 3am, are they not enjoying themselves just as much if they drink 6 pints up until midnight and then leave.
I doubt you will find someone trying to drink 12 pints between 9 and midnight because they want to get as drunk as they would be at 3am. They will continue to drink the 6 pints as they would normally because that is the level they are comfortable consuming at.
The problem isn't people trying to drink as much as humanly possible to reach some kinda target. The problem is people drinking and drinking and drinking as something to do in the club, and will not stop once they have gone over a certain limit.
People drink as something to do in a night club. Once they are at a suitably "merry" state they will continue to drink well past that limit because they have nothing else to do. You dance or drink in a night club. There is actually f**k all to do in a night club, and conversation is rather difficult. Everyone feels arkward in a night club if they aren't doing something, and for most people that is drinking. You very rarely see someone standing around not drinking or dancing.
I truely believe that if opening hours are extended they will only make things worse, because it is quite clear that given the oppertunity to continue drinking Irish people will because they have nothing else to do. It is almost expected that you don't stop drinking until the bar physically closes, and even then you get in another 3 or 4 drinks to last you till the very end of the night.
There is no reason to believe that they won't.Karl Hungus wrote:What you are doing is assuming that people will automatically be drinking at the same volume for an extended period of time.
Unlike places like Europe, young Irish (and British) people don't voluntarly stop drinking. They stop drinking when they physically have to, ie when the bar closes. The most likely reason for this is because they have actually nothing else to be doing in the nightclub, except dancing.
If you extended the opening hours till 4.30 do you honestly believe people at about 2 would say "wow, i've really had enough, time to stop I think?" If the Irish were able to stop once they reached their limit we would not have a problem in the first place.
People will drink at the same level, but longer because the night will last longer. The reason they are drinking is for something to do. This is clear by the fact that people don't stop even after they are very drunk. Being very drunk at 12 still doesn't give you anything more to do, you still have to find something to occupy your time, so you go and get more drink.Karl Hungus wrote:If you've got more time, then that promotes a much more relaxed drinking enviroment.
You can get drunk in 15 minutes with a bottle of whiskey. But then you would have nothing to do for the rest of the night. People drinking in clubs as a focus of attention.
But the pub or club isn't relaxed to begin with.Karl Hungus wrote:It'd take time for people to get used to a more relaxed drinking atmosphere, and there would certainly be problems during the transition, but people would soon get used to it.
It is arkward and embrassing for most people, which is why they get drunk in the first place. Just like most teenagers start smoking as something to do while they are hanging around to stop them feeling awkward, most people drink in clubs to give themselves something to do. Because there is nothing worse than looking like you have nothing to do in a night club.
Most young adults, particularly males, find social situations such as night clubs particularly arkward anyway, especially when things like scoring girls are thrown into the mix. I bet if we made everyone enter a club and spend the night without a drink the vast majority of people would say they hated the experience.
Increasing opening hours simply increases the amount of time that the person is trying to find something to do to stop them being in a position of nothing to do.0 -
Having longer hours of business would certainly eventually change the stayle of drinking here to a more relaxed pace, ala Europe but the road to that point would be unbearable.
The amount of people that would be hospitalised, arrested or even dead would be enough to ensure that the kind of hours they enjoy on the continent will never be introduced here in the next 10 to 15 years.
I see the main problem is that every is drunk and wired and suddenly they are in the street hungry or tired or wanting to take some bird home or whatever and everywhere is mobbed with similar idiots wanting to do the same.
That is as much our fault as it is the governments however. We adapted to their system of business all too readily.0 -
How?Froot wrote:Having longer hours of business would certainly eventually change the stayle of drinking here to a more relaxed pace, ala Europe but the road to that point would be unbearable.
It won't make being in a nightclub less arkward, it won't give people in a night club anything more to do.
I see absolutely no reason to believe that extending hours of business alone would make anyone more relaxed in night club at all.
The way to make people more relaxed in a night club is to actually make them more relaxed. Vastly increase seating for a start. It was very awkward to be standing around doing nothing, which is why people get drinks so they can be standing around focusing on drinking their drinks (this also leads to them consuming the drink much faster than how it is supposed to be consumed, leading to faster drunken state). People feel less arkward sitting down doing nothing.
Having music in all areas of the night club greatly reduces the ability to converse with each other, which again leads to arkwardness and nothing to do. If you cant carry on a proper conversation that is something else you cannot do instead of drink. Increase areas in night clubs that are shielded from the music, or have the music playing at lower volumes, and with plenty of seating, gives people a place to sit and chat. Some clubs have done this but they put the rooms in arkward out of the way areas with little service with kinda defeats the purpose.Froot wrote:I see the main problem is that every is drunk and wired and suddenly they are in the street hungry or tired or wanting to take some bird home or whatever and everywhere is mobbed with similar idiots wanting to do the same.
Who is going to go to a night club that closes much before all the others? You are going to end up with deserted 2am closing club, and jam packed 5am closing club. Everyone from the 2am club would just around and try and get into the 5am club.
The whole idea works on the idea that people would be sensible enough to choose to go to a early closing night club, sensible enough to stagger their drinking better, sensible enough to know when to stop drinking, sensible enough to go home despite other places still being open.
But if people were sensible there wouldn't be a problem. People are idiots. People choose to go to the most late night opening night club, even if that means they don't get home till 6am. People choose to drink high alcohol very quickly but then continue to drink constently through the night. People choose to continue to drink after they feel themseleves getting very drunk, they just switch to alcho-pops that are easier to continue drinking. People choose to continue on the night by trying to get into any pub or club that is still open, or starting up their own little mini-club in the local chipper.
People are idiots. You can't give people the option and expect (hope) them to pick the better option.0 -
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No, but you can force a change in habits. The simple fact of the matter is that people will drink themselves legless, whether the pub closes at 2.30am, 4.30am or 12pm.Wicknight wrote:People are idiots. You can't give people the option and expect (hope) them to pick the better option.
Longer opening hours however will dilute the vast majority of people. Contrary to popular belief, while a lot of people will end up drunk on a night out, they won't end up completely brainless. Plenty of pubs have hundreds of people standing outside chatting, long after the pub has closed - an indicator that these people are capable of some semblence of brain activitiy, and at the same time willing to have fun without alcohol.
There would be a short and chaotic period of transition - people unable to change their habits and drinking themselves senseless, but eventually a change would be forced in habits. 99% of people don't set out to drink themselves into a complete stupor. After once or twice ending up a tad too drunk because they could keep buying alcohol, they cop on (consciously or otherwise) that they have to control themselves.
The main benefit would be that everyone isn't spilling onto the streets at the same time. It's all well and good to say that "It's not the queues that start fights, it the drinking", but in reality, which have we got control over? We can't ban alcohol, and earlier closing times = earlier drinking.
The other good side effect of later opening hours is that it will force a change in the way clubs are run. As it is, anyone can wander around a pub completely legless and get served more drink so long as they don't fall asleep in the corner. The bouncers and the publicans know that come 2.30am they can just throw the guy out and he's not their problem. If the pub is open till 6 or 7 in the morning, then they have to police their patrons and eject or refuse those people who've drunk themselves silly.0 -
But a lot less people will drink themselves legless if the clubs closed at 12am. There are always some people who are legless by 12am anyway, but the vast majority of people aren't. They only started getting completely pissed around 1 or 2, and yet they continue to drink.seamus wrote:No, but you can force a change in habits. The simple fact of the matter is that people will drink themselves legless, whether the pub closes at 2.30am, 4.30am or 12pm.
The longer the night goes on the less sober or semi-sober people you find. There are far more sober or semi-sober people outside the pub at 12 than outside the night club at 3amseamus wrote:Plenty of pubs have hundreds of people standing outside chatting, long after the pub has closed - an indicator that these people are capable of some semblence of brain activitiy, and at the same time willing to have fun without alcohol.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain what "force" will change habitsseamus wrote:There would be a short and chaotic period of transition - people unable to change their habits and drinking themselves senseless, but eventually a change would be forced in habits.
No they don't. If they copped on there would not be a problem in the first place.seamus wrote:99% of people don't set out to drink themselves into a complete stupor. After once or twice ending up a tad too drunk because they could keep buying alcohol, they cop on (consciously or otherwise) that they have to control themselves.
People generally are not prepare do stop drinking in a night club, unless they are dancing, because drinking is one of the few things you can actually do in a night club to keep occupied. And there is nothing worse than standing around doing nothing in a night club.
If the club hours were extended all you are doing is extending the period of time where the people in the night club have to find something to do with themselves. The vast majority occupy this time either drinking or buying drinks. Few people pace themselves under the current system because that increases the period where you aren't doing anything. If you require that people pace themselves ever long, that they increase the period of time when they aren't doing anything, you will get no where.
Again, what makes you think anyone will actually go to the night club that closes way before the other ones? Everyone will attempt to go to the night clubs that stays open the longest, and the other nightclubs will do poor business.seamus wrote:The main benefit would be that everyone isn't spilling onto the streets at the same time.
You are also limited by the amount of time you actually have. If you put an hour between each closing time you simply half the number of people on the street. That is largely pointless, because that is still far to many very drunk people out and about. Most fights start between people in the same night club over disagreements that happen in the night club itself.
Easiler closing times = less drink.seamus wrote:We can't ban alcohol, and earlier closing times = earlier drinking.
There is no reason to believe people will start going out earlier to fit in enough drinking time. People decide when to go to the pub based on other factors such as work dinner and how long it takes to get ready. There is no reason to believe that people will drink significantly faster to fit in enough drink before the pubs or clubs close. People drink in a club or pub as something to do. There is a physical limit to how quickly a person can purchase and consume alcohol, and if the early closing times were combined with a price hike there is no reason to believe people would drink more than the limit they do to keep themselves comfortable in teh social situation.0 -
Easiler closing times = less drink.
Thats cr@p, all that happens is people will just go out earlier or drink faster.
Every country that has brought in 24hour pubs has seen a noticalble drop in anti social behavior after the first couple of weeks/months of mayham. The English have had it for a year now and their police are amazed at how much less trouble they are having. The thing with 24 hour pubs is that you don't have to go out at 10/11 to have a few beers, you can go out whenever you want and leave when you want. There is no racing for closing time and getting as many in as you can before being kicked out.
As was said before, if pubs open later then after a bit of chaos people will settle down and learn. But there will always be people who are stupid and drink themselves into a coma, but there are laws for that already and if they are enforced then this can be stopped.
Why should I not be able to go to the pub at 4am cause someone else can't control themselves? The Gaurds/publicans should enforce the current laws and not be looking for new laws/restricted opening times.0 -
That makes no sense, and is not supported by the evidence.Del2005 wrote:Thats cr@p, all that happens is people will just go out earlier or drink faster.
If most people are so determined to drink themselves into a completely drunken state that they will drink much faster to make sure they reach this state by 12 midnight, then what makes you think these same people won't drink themselves into a completely drunken state if the clubs are extended till 5am and they have an extra 5 hours of this heavy drinking?Del2005 wrote:The English have had it for a year now and their police are amazed at how much less trouble they are having.
Er, not quite
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/4552114.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/4576850.stm
The second report points to the fact that 999 calls on New Years day, when 4,000 pubs and clubs were given extentions, were now going on through the night, where as before they would cease after about 2am. And this isn't even 24 hour drinking, this was just extentions.
Amazingly people didn't head off home at the usual time, they stayed until the very end, and as a result got more and more drunk.
Violent crime seemed the same as normal according to the Kent police, so I suppose the argument that if you just get everyone so drunk they can't walk let alone start a fight, you will decrease violent crime is valid, though kinda missing the point.Del2005 wrote:There is no racing for closing time and getting as many in as you can before being kicked out.
There is no reason to believe people will leave the night club earlier than they have to. In fact evidence suggests they don't. People are free to leave the night club before they get very drunk in the current situation. If they did we wouldn't have a problem.
What??Del2005 wrote:As was said before, if pubs open later then after a bit of chaos people will settle down and learn.
This is ridiculous. The entire argument in support of long opening hours is based on this hope that under long licensing laws people will some how magically mature and take their drinking more seriously. It isn't happening under the current system where people have less freedom to get drunk, yet you some how think that it will if you give them freedom to drink for as long as they like?
That argument is wishful thinking nonsense.
It is simple maths. People drink consistently during the time they are in a night club. Increase the time they spend in the night club you increase the amount of alcohol they consume. Decrease the time they spend in the night club you decrease the amount of alcohol they consume.
All this nonsense that introducing longer hours will some how create a paradim shift in our culture is completely unfounded. The only countries that benefited from things like 24 hour drinking have completely different cultural attitudes towards drink. If you look at how the Irish or British drink when in these European countires, in the resorts etc, we don't drink at all like the Europeans, we drink like we do at home but we do it for longer and get more drunk.0 -
Not agreeing with you at all OP.
If somebody wants to sell alcholol at 6am then let them. If somebody wants to drink at that hour then let them. If an 18 year old wants to drink spirits then the should be able to. WHy are you prejudging the chracter of a 18-21 year old adults?0 -
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Budd wrote:Not agreeing with you at all OP.
If somebody wants to sell alcholol at 6am then let them. If somebody wants to drink at that hour then let them. If an 18 year old wants to drink spirits then the should be able to. WHy are you prejudging the chracter of a 18-21 year old adults?
If someone wants to get pissed drunk, start a fight in McDonalds, throw up on the night link, eventually pass out and be carried to an A&E where they assault a nurse, let them?0 -
Wicknight wrote:If someone wants to get pissed drunk, start a fight in McDonalds, throw up on the night link, eventually pass out and be carried to an A&E where they assault a nurse, let them?
No throw the full weight of the law at them, but if someone wants to have a few drinks at 5 in the morning why not?
As for crime going down,Violent crimes recorded by the police in England and Wales fell by 11% at the end of last year, despite longer pub opening hours coming in, figures show.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4692016.stm
Your 2 quotes are great.
From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/4552114.stmPolice forces in Wales and a representative of pub licensees organisation agreed with the poll and said the new laws had made little difference in their first month of operation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/4576850.stmIn Kent, police said their patch was surprisingly quiet on New Year's Eve.
Dover District Council's head of licensing, Tony Bartlett, said the new hours did not appear to have had much effect.
So there was an increase of 999 calls over the new year, they only think the laws may have been to blame.
As for drinking when away. It's only cause it's such a novelty that you can drink all night that people do it, and usually only for a couple of days.
Not all people can't be trusted, some of us actually have a life and work. We would like the option of having a drink when we like not being treated like kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del2005
Thats cr@p, all that happens is people will just go out earlier or drink faster.
That makes no sense, and is not supported by the evidence.
Personal experience:D
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Del2005 wrote:No throw the full weight of the law at them, but if someone wants to have a few drinks at 5 in the morning why not?
Because you only know who is going to abuse that situation after the fact.
BTW why do you want a drink at 5am??
If you read the article you will see the UK government spend an additional 2.5 million with extra police to target anti-social behavior after pubs close, over a six week period. So all the UK government have to do is spend 2.5 million in policing every month.Del2005 wrote:As for crime going down,Del2005 wrote:So there was an increase of 999 calls over the new year, they only think the laws may have been to blame.
The time is the important bit to focus on. The increase was because the calls continued through out the night, where as normally they would cease after 2 or 3am. People aren't being sensible, they are continuing to drink on through the night. Which I mean should be obvious, no one has yet been able to explain what this mystery force is that is going to make people slow down in their drinking.
Its because they can. Given the opportunity young people these days will drink for as long as they can. This is the same if the clubs stay open till 12, 3 or 6 in the morning. I know of very few people who stop drinking after they are drunk on there own.Del2005 wrote:As for drinking when away. It's only cause it's such a novelty that you can drink all night that people do it, and usually only for a couple of days.
If everyone stopped acting like kids we wouldn't have a problem in the first place.Del2005 wrote:Not all people can't be trusted, some of us actually have a life and work. We would like the option of having a drink when we like not being treated like kids.0 -
[I]BTW why do you want a drink at 5am??[/I]
Why not? What if you've just finished work and, like many people, you feel like going for a few drinks to wind down?0 -
nando wrote:[I]BTW why do you want a drink at 5am??[/I]
Why not? What if you've just finished work and, like many people, you feel like going for a few drinks to wind down?
If you are a night shift worker then going for alcohol after work is a bad idea.
Night workers suffer from dehydration, since the body is naturally designed not to consume fluids during the night due to natural slow down and the lowering temprature, but because they are up and about they are using stored water. Having an alcoholic drink straight after you finish your shift is possibly the worst thing you can do (the best being having a few glasses of water), as alcohol further dehydrates you.0 -
It seems to me, Wicknight, that it is you that feel arkward in night clubs, you cant/dont like to dance, and generally dont like the drinking scene.
then why does it concern you? just dont go!!!
you asked for evidence, Well if you want evidence of what it would be like to have 24 hr access to drink, just look at nearly every other country. and dont try to hide behind "our culture" how do you know what the italians would be like if they had restricted drinking times? or us if we had 24hr?
I lived in spain for many years, after a few nights of getting the hang of being out drinking for 10 hours, you soon get the hang of it. it also opens the doors to different types of bars that can open and close as they wish.
the problem of our nations alchohol problem can not be addressed by prohibitionary solutions of any kind, its proven to not work,
the problems of mass crowds of drunks on the streets at the same time can be solved by spreading the closing times.
And since when did you ever teach a kid responsibility by restricting them further.
So if you want the nation to stop acting like kids in a sweetshop when they are out, maybe let the learn from thier mistakes.
And IMHO there is a certain amount of people that will get smashed when they go out because that is what they want to do, the amount of people with that inclination isnt going to change if we have 24hr laws, it just means there is less chance of leaving the club at the same time as the idiots.
People drinking in a nightclub because they feel bored or arkward is just fecking rediculous, Why would you go there if you didnt want to do (or at least some of) drink, socialise, dance, get laid, have fun.
Really Wicknight, i think you have had some bad experiences and blame the hours rather than not enjoying a drink0 -
Wicknight wrote:If you are a night shift worker then going for alcohol after work is a bad idea.
Night workers suffer from dehydration, since the body is naturally designed not to consume fluids during the night due to natural slow down and the lowering temprature, but because they are up and about they are using stored water. Having an alcoholic drink straight after you finish your shift is possibly the worst thing you can do (the best being having a few glasses of water), as alcohol further dehydrates you.
I think you mean when you are asleep, not working at night, if you work at night and sleep during the day you body will only be missing a bit of vit D from the sunlight.
Drinking alcohol dehydrates you anyway. day or night.0 -
Spare me your "oh you are such a square" nonsense. What are you, 17? :rolleyes:SmoothyG wrote:It seems to me, Wicknight, that it is you that feel arkward in night clubs, you cant/dont like to dance, and generally dont like the drinking scene.
It is exactly that kind of childish attitude to drinking, and to the very serious problem of alcohol abuse in Ireland that only makes the problem worse and provides no solutions.
I go out on average 2 times a week, I stay out till the last taxi home, and I drink regularly. I'm fortunate enough to know my limit and to not mind stopping once I have reached that limit. For years I didn't know my limit.
It is exactly because I do this that I am aware of the reality of Irish drinking culture, and why Irish people drink the way they do.
You on the other hand seem to think everyone is having as much fun as you are pretending to have each night :rolleyes:
I have. I how the Irish drink in 6 other countries. And guess what (you might want to sit down for this), they drink exactly the same as they do here!!!SmoothyG wrote:you asked for evidence, Well if you want evidence of what it would be like to have 24 hr access to drink, just look at nearly every other country
When the Irish are on holiday or working in European countries they amazingly enough don't drink like the Europeans, they drink like the Irish do here. Which is consistent steady prolong drinking. They drink from the moment they enter the nightclub till the moment they leave.
I have seen night clubs in Italy and the Balkian countries that do not allow specifically Irish and British either into the night club or to avail of the drinks promotions sepecifically because we do not stop drinking given the oppertunity..
Because it is quite easy to observe French or Italians in countries like Ireland or the US that have restricted drinking times, and they don't get sh1t faced. And it is quite easy to observe Irish and British in countries that do have 24hr drinking and we do get very sh1t face.SmoothyG wrote:. and dont try to hide behind "our culture" how do you know what the italians would be like if they had restricted drinking times? or us if we had 24hr?
Are you someone who has a problem with drinking normally in Ireland? No? Then what you can or cannot do is rather irrelivent don't you think.SmoothyG wrote:I lived in spain for many years, after a few nights of getting the hang of being out drinking for 10 hours, you soon get the hang of it.
And?? We need these bars because....?SmoothyG wrote:it also opens the doors to different types of bars that can open and close as they wish.
When was it "proven" not to work? Binge drinking and alcohol abuse has risen 50% in the last 10 years, which is funnily enough the same period in which the licensing laws were relaxedSmoothyG wrote:the problem of our nations alchohol problem can not be addressed by prohibitionary solutions of any kind, its proven to not work
People keep saying that as if you can have a 100 different closing times, or let people out at 10 people a go. That is nonsense. You can have at most 3 different closing time, which just means you have the incidents spread over a long period of time. There is very little difference between having 3,000 people dumped onto the streets in one go, or having 1,000 people dumped out every half hour. You also have the fact that the clubs that stay open the longest will naturally be far more popular than the ones that close 2 hours earlier.SmoothyG wrote:the problems of mass crowds of drunks on the streets at the same time can be solved by spreading the closing times.
Since when did a night club teach a kid responsibility at all, or even try to?SmoothyG wrote:And since when did you ever teach a kid responsibility by restricting them further.
We are learning from our mistakes. It is a mistake to allow unlimited drinking till 3am.SmoothyG wrote:So if you want the nation to stop acting like kids in a sweetshop when they are out, maybe let the learn from thier mistakes.
It not, but the people who will be seriously drunk will rise significantly.SmoothyG wrote:And IMHO there is a certain amount of people that will get smashed when they go out because that is what they want to do, the amount of people with that inclination isnt going to change if we have 24hr laws
As you say you can't do much about the people who go to specifically to get as drunk as they possibly can. But these are very small proportion of people, mostly with depression problems. None of my mates are like this. All my mates end up hammered at the end of the night? Why? Because they don't stop drinking
Irish people, in a night club, given the oppertunity, will not stop drinking unless they are physically forced to stop by the bar or the night club closing.
Some people are responsible, some people know their limit and are quite happy to stop drinking once they have reached that limit. Some people even know how to work out how to spread their drinks so they drink all night but never get that drunk. The vast vast majority of people don't They drink quickly and they drink the entire time, not because they are on some mission to get very very hammered, they do it because it is something to do in the night club. As I said before being in a night club is an arkward
You obviously have never actually been in a nightclub, or if you were you weren't paying very much attention to anything beyond the immediate (maybe you were too drunk)SmoothyG wrote:People drinking in a nightclub because they feel bored or arkward is just fecking rediculous
I imagine you would rather rip out your toe nails than ever admit that you have ever felt arkward or uncomfortable in a night club, ever been bored or uninterested because you can't hear the person beside you, or ever gone to the bar simply for something to do. You are far too cool for that :rolleyes:, so I won't bother trying to get you to.
But I assure you plenty of people have and do. You only have to wander around a night club looking at what people are actually doing to see that 90% of the people at any one time in a night club are in the middle of actually doing nothing.
Who says they don't want to dance, have fun, socialise and get laid?SmoothyG wrote:Why would you go there if you didnt want to do (or at least some of) drink, socialise, dance, get laid, have fun.
It is precisily because they want to do all these things that it is arkward to be standing around without a drink in your hand and without anything to do.0 -
SmoothyG wrote:I think you mean when you are asleep, not working at night
No, I mean when you work at night.
When you are asleep you aren't doing anything, and as such your body rests and you don't use water. This is the what your body expects to happen. When you work at night you are up and about awake and doing things, and you are using water, but your body is still in "night mode", triggered by the drop in temp and the lack of daylight. Your body therefore does not handle water regulation properly, and you become dehydrated. The worst thing one can do is add alcohol to that situation.0 -
so you wander around night clubs looking to see who is having fun or not? sad!
when i go to a niht club i normally have fun, laugh with friends, dance and then 2 hours after arriving get kicked out incase i drink too much!!!
lol
If you feel arkward being in a night club dont go.
People dont drink in clubs due to boredom, they drink because maybe they like to drink??????
and if you work at night your body will adapt to change your body clock, the only difference is if it is once off, out of routine and that you dont get the same sun light.
So looking at how people drink on holidays is how you look to predict the results of 24hr. If you have looked at the irish workers abroad you will see they blend in nicely. the areas that ban the english and irish are all holiday resorts, and please dont use holiday resorts as a base for logical arguments, there is no need to discredit yourself, ill do that for you0 -
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Wicknight wrote:You on the other hand seem to think everyone is having as much fun as you are pretending to have each night :rolleyes:
You obviously have never actually been in a nightclub, or if you were you weren't paying very much attention to anything beyond the immediate (maybe you were too drunk)
I imagine you would rather rip out your toe nails than ever admit that you have ever felt arkward or uncomfortable in a night club, ever been bored or uninterested because you can't hear the person beside you, or ever gone to the bar simply for something to do. You are far too cool for that :rolleyes:, so I won't bother trying to get you to.
But I assure you plenty of people have and do. You only have to wander around a night club looking at what people are actually doing to see that 90% of the people at any one time in a night club are in the middle of actually doing nothing.
Who says they don't want to dance, have fun, socialise and get laid?
It is precisily because they want to do all these things that it is arkward to be standing around without a drink in your hand and without anything to do.
I worked in night clubs all through Uni, and i loved it, i loved being in a club when i wasnt working, As for the people "doing nothing" I often just look around soak up the atmosphere, watch people dance. Exactly what, other than talking dancing and drinking do u expect people to do in a night club?
And i have never felt arkward in a night club just because i was in one!! I have felt arkward because of lots of things, some times this occurs when im in a night club, but never just because i was there!!!
So you are suggesting that some people feel arkward because they want to have fun and cant, because they are in a night club and..............
My point is that closing hours and the drink problem here have there roles, if it is an attitude towards drink within our culture, then the closing times are irrelevant, if it is the closing times that cause the drink problem then reducing the hours will only lead to more condensed drinking.0 -
SmoothyG wrote:so you wander around night clubs looking to see who is having fun or not? sad!
I see having a serious discussion about alcohol consumption in Ireland is out of the question :rolleyes:
I don't feel arkward being in a night club. If I did, I wouldn't go and I wouldn't be able to tell you what it is like in a night club.SmoothyG wrote:If you feel arkward being in a night club dont go.SmoothyG wrote:People dont drink in clubs due to boredom, they drink because maybe they like to drink??????
That is a complete non-answer.
Did people 10 years ago not like to drink? Why is binge drinking up by such a huge level, and why is 58% of male drinking binge drinking when 10 years ago it wasn't? Why do Irish people drink as much as they do now, and why do they drink in such a more drastic manner than on the contient?
No, it won't. You can't undo 30 million years of mammalian biological evolution simply by staying up late.SmoothyG wrote:and if you work at night your body will adapt to change your body clock
I have, they don't. They only "blend" when they are with other Europeans. In groups of other Irish they carry on like they do at home.SmoothyG wrote:If you have looked at the irish workers abroad you will see they blend in nicely.
Don't forget we will have the european 24hour law, but we aren't getting the European culture of drinking with it. We aren't flying over thousands of Europeans to go out with us each friday night.
What?SmoothyG wrote:the areas that ban the english and irish are all holiday resorts,
The holiday resorts are the only ones that don't do this, since they are set up especially for the Irish and British.
It is the local night clubs, that have late night opening for locals, drinks promotions for locals, that ban the Irish and British because they abuse the system set up for locals.0 -
SmoothyG wrote:I worked in night clubs all through Uni, and i loved it, i loved being in a club when i wasnt working,
You've said that already ... in fact you seem to be falling over yourself to tell me how much you love night clubs, going out and drinking. Does that fact not concern you a little bit?
Isn't that the point? There is nothing else to do, so if someone doesn't want to be standing around doing nothing they are either dancing or drinking.SmoothyG wrote:Exactly what, other than talking dancing and drinking do u expect people to do in a night club?SmoothyG wrote:I have felt arkward because of lots of things, some times this occurs when im in a night club, but never just because i was there!!!
So you have felt arkward in a night club then ... so what exactly is your point?SmoothyG wrote:So you are suggesting that some people feel arkward because they want to have fun and cant, because they are in a night club and..............
I am telling you that most people, especially young people, feel arkward in social situations such as night club. It is a natural response, given the situation and social behavior expected. You are either unaware this happens (lucky you), or are pretending it doesn't happen
I would imagine you surround yourself with a select group of people that make you feel comfortable, safe and secure, and as such you diminish the arkwardness you feel in the the situation. I don't blame you, that is what I do too, I think it is what most people would do in the situation if they can.
If I had to guess I would say you are either a girl or you go out a lot with groups of girls (I don't mean that in anyway as an insult, it is well understood that the social pressure on males in groups of other males is greater than on a male in a group of females)SmoothyG wrote:My point is that closing hours and the drink problem here have there roles, if it is an attitude towards drink within our culture, then the closing times are irrelevant
They aren't irrelivent at all, the limit the amount of avaiable time to drink. Limit the time available you limit the amount of drink consummed.0 -
They aren't irrelivent at all, the limit the amount of avaiable time to drink. Limit the time available you limit the amount of drink consummed.[/QUOTE]
No, they will just drink quicker , and then more at home.
so from the top
1) I dont feel arkward in a night club, or any social occasion because i dont care what others think. especially in a night club, and yes i have friends that i am secure with.
The youth feeling arkward in social surroundings and turning to drink because they are bored?? Have you ever been to a club?? People drink and dance and laugh because it is fun!!!! some over do it.
2) 10 years ago people, especially the youth, didnt have as much expendable income. even thought they spent what they had on alcohol,
3)I stressed i like clubs, twice, becuase you seem to be under the impression that 90% are bored and arkward, i think that is bolloks!!! more like 90% are merry, relaxed and having fun.
4)If dancing and drinking isnt your idea of fun than dont go to clubs.
And finally, what do you propose as the new laws to punish the majority, the likes of me and you that drink responsibly so that we can "help" the minority who have problems?0 -
What are you basing that on? Would you just drink quicker?SmoothyG wrote:No, they will just drink quicker , and then more at home.
No offence but in my experience the people who say they don't care what others think are the ones who care the most. It is a biological instinct to care what others think of you. I imagine you care what your friends think. If you weren't drinking and your friends slagged you about this fact I would imagine you would certainly care about it.SmoothyG wrote:1) I dont feel arkward in a night club, or any social occasion because i dont care what others think.
They are not "turning to drink" .. you make it sound like everyone in a night club is clinical depressed.SmoothyG wrote:The youth feeling arkward in social surroundings and turning to drink because they are bored??
They are drinking for something to do, because it is arkward to be in a social situation and not have anything to do. You are then just standing around, hand in pockets.
So by your logic 10 years ago people didn't have "fun", since they clearly were not able to buy enough alcohol to have "fun" ... is that right?SmoothyG wrote:10 years ago people, especially the youth, didnt have as much expendable income. even thought they spent what they had on alcohol
If they could have fun then why do we need to be drinking 10 times as much to have "fun". Are we having 10 times as much "fun"
You either have never been in a night club (I'm assuming you have), or when you are in a night club you don't pay any attention to anyone other than the group of friends you are with.SmoothyG wrote:I stressed i like clubs, twice, becuase you seem to be under the impression that 90% are bored and arkward, i think that is bolloks!!! more like 90% are merry, relaxed and having fun.
If 90% of the people in a night club were merry and relax we would never have any problems at nigh. The exact opposite is true.
Groan .. :rolleyes:SmoothyG wrote:4)If dancing and drinking isnt your idea of fun than dont go to clubs.SmoothyG wrote:And finally, what do you propose as the new laws to punish the majority, the likes of me and you that drink responsibly so that we can "help" the minority who have problems?
Two things -
1) the tax on drinks should raised significantly. As you said 10 years ago we didn't have as much desposable income so we couldn't afford to drink as much as we do now. Some how people 10 years ago still managed to have fun (amazing isn't it), consuming a lot less alcohol than they do now. We drink far far more than is healthy for us to do, and we drink far far more than we actually need to drink to get drunk. What we actually do is drink till we are drunk and then keep drinking, which is rather pointless since we are already drunk. You just end up with alcohol posioning and a liver that is ready to pack it in a 35.
2) All night clubs and pubs should stop serving alcohol at 12 midnight. After that they can stay open for as long as you like, 24 hour if you think people would stay. If, as you say, you don't need to drink consistently through the night to have fun you should have no objection to this, since you are still free to do all the other things that you can in a night club.0 -
Wicknight wrote:1) the tax on drinks should raised significantly. As you said 10 years ago we didn't have as much desposable income so we couldn't afford to drink as much as we do now. Some how people 10 years ago still managed to have fun (amazing isn't it), consuming a lot less alcohol than they do now. We drink far far more than is healthy for us to do, and we drink far far more than we actually need to drink to get drunk. What we actually do is drink till we are drunk and then keep drinking, which is rather pointless since we are already drunk. You just end up with alcohol posioning and a liver that is ready to pack it in a 35.
Sorry I didn't reply to the thread but the posts after mine convinced me for the most part.
I don't think it's a good idea to try and buy the irish out of drinking. It's an attitude problem and you can't restrict their personal freedom by trying to control what they can and can't afford to do, it's not really a way of positive long term change. If you want to compromise your own health, that's your own decision, it only really becomes an issue when you affect other people.0 -
My take on things is slightly different.
1. We should be allowed drink whenever we want anyway. 24/7/365.
2. We need to improve our education system - alcohol awareness, safe sex, etc.0 -
grasshopa wrote:you can't restrict their personal freedom by trying to control what they can and can't afford to do
We do this all the time, with various products, for various reasons from health and safety to economical reasons. We already do it alcohol, have done for years.0 -
maybe its time to lock this thread, its getting a bit tedious......zzzzzzzz
besides, i need to get a pint:D
but seriously, we do have a drinking problem, and its taken for granted.......did anyone bring up the issue of the cost of non alcohol drinks in clubs, .
unfreakinreal.......0 -
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U missed Club type 0, cos most clubs stop servin at 1 and close at 2.300
This discussion has been closed.
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