McDowell's U-Turn

TrueDub · 20-07-2006 9:07am #1

Looks like someone's finally talked some sense into our Minister for Justice. Morning Ireland this morning had a reasonable feature on McDowell's decision to regulate casino clubs in Ireland, rather than banning them.

In the interview with him he made clear that it was "his colleagues in government" that had changed his mind, and that he now felt that regulation was a preferable approach, but that "Ireland would not become a Las Vegas-style gambling mecca".

The feature included some reportage from the Fitz, with a couple of regulars being interviewed (Chris was one, didn't recognise the other).

All in all, good news for those of us who enjoy playing poker in the Fitz and other well-run card clubs. As always, though, the devil will be in the detail, so when the proposed regulations are published in the Autumn I'll look forward to seeing what wrinkle he comes up with this time.

bman · 20-07-2006 9:12am

Will regulation mean higher registration fees at clubs due to taxes?

5starpool · 20-07-2006 9:38am

yay!!!

nicryan · 20-07-2006 10:09am

I can identify irene, chris and another woman who was in on that day who's not in very regularly called Cara...

Nic

mewso · 20-07-2006 10:15am

It's good news but I just can't get the sound of rustling brown bags/envelopes out of my mind.

smurph · 20-07-2006 10:40am

Irish Independent Breaking News, god its great to see him eating humble pie.:p

Fine Gael claims Justice Minister Michael McDowell has been forced into a "humiliating u-turn" on casinos
Mr McDowell had previously said he wanted to close down such clubs, but he has now confirmed that he has instead decided to regulate the industry.

The minister says he will bring proposals to the Dail later this year for the establishment of a regulatory body.

Fine Gael TD Jim O'Keefe said today that Mr McDowell had been humiliatingly rebuffed by his cabinet colleagues and was now adopting the approach advocated by Fine Gael.

Mr O'Keefe said his party saw no difference between properly regulated casino clubs and betting on the dogs or the horses.

gerire · 20-07-2006 10:59am

It kind of does make sense that all those TD's with their tax free horses / race earnings can actually see through the fog, if it had have gone through as he was planning there would have been some court case in relation to other gambling form, ie if we, the casinos, are going down we are taking you with us.

A regulated system will suit us all players and the government id reckon, wonder where it will leave the "gambling in Pubs" issue though for all the pub/hotel games?

muso wrote:

I just can't get the sound of rustling brown bags/envelopes out of my mind

Just as well all that "lobbying to bertie" etc from MR Sporting Emporium PAID off

karlh · 20-07-2006 11:13am

tbh.

BigDragon · 20-07-2006 11:26am

TrueDub wrote:

Looks like someone's finally talked some sense into our Minister for Justice. Morning Ireland this morning had a reasonable feature on McDowell's decision to regulate casino clubs in Ireland, rather than banning them.

Listen at http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0720/casino.html (Realplayer link at bottom)

NickyOD · 20-07-2006 11:55am

BigDragon wrote:

(Realplayer link at bottom)

Yeah great. Give everyone's computer cancer why don't you.

Roddy23 · 20-07-2006 11:57am

or ye could just read it here on the link

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2006/07/20/story268598.html

BigDragon · 20-07-2006 11:59am

NickyOD wrote:

Yeah great. Give everyone's computer cancer why don't you.

Eh?

NickyOD · 20-07-2006 12:00pm

BigDragon wrote:

Eh?

just kidding. Fookin' hate RP.

Sinfonia · 20-07-2006 12:48pm

I heard McDowell wanted to shut down the casinos after he was on the receiving end of a bad beat, but two nights ago he outdrew Mary Harney's quad queens to catch four aces on the river - he immediately made a u-turn on the casino issue

Seriously though, great news, I mean was he going to shut down casinos and allow horse racing and the National Lottery to carry on?????

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 20-07-2006 2:46pm

could this news be one of the advantages of having the sporting emporium run by who it is, perhaps??!!

lostexpectation · 20-07-2006 3:17pm

so will this be industry regulation ie self regulation, or stricter government regulation?

kleefarr · 20-07-2006 4:15pm

bman wrote:

Will regulation mean higher registration fees at clubs due to taxes?

Quite likely, but I think it would be very unfair of them to pass it on to the customer. They make enough money.

gerire wrote:

A regulated system will suit us all players and the government id reckon, wonder where it will leave the "gambling in Pubs" issue though for all the pub/hotel games?

If they go the UK way, which is supposedly the most respected and best run Gaming Commission (Gaming Board) in the world, those kind of activities will be unlawful.

Great news though. Definitely a step in the right direction for all concerned. Lets hope that the regulatory body don't make it any tougher than it should be to look after.

tricky D · 20-07-2006 6:04pm

kleefarr wrote:

Quite likely, but I think it would be very unfair of them to pass it on to the customer.

So how then, would any extra costs be covered. Grow a money tree??

kleefarr wrote:

They make enough money.

That's an assumption.

What will likely happen is that the industry will be investigated by an external, probably UK consultant who will recommend regulations and taxation methods sometime in the winter. The industry generally welcomes this change toward legitimacy and accepts that the tax aspect is inevitable.

/job safe, phew. Thanks to all those who lobbied.

kleefarr · 20-07-2006 6:20pm

tricky D wrote:

So how then, would any extra costs be covered. Grow a money tree??

That's an assumption.

I know that the games rules in Ireland compared to the UK afford Irish casinos more of a profit margin, so it's not an assumption.
If those game rules and regs don't change then in my opinion it would be unfair to pass on the cost to the customer.
Also, why are people charged membership fees. In UK they don't and the profit margin is lower. Greed I think.

tricky D wrote:

What will likely happen is that the industry will be investigated by an external, probably UK consultant who will recommend regulations and taxation methods sometime in the winter. The industry generally welcomes this change toward legitimacy and accepts that the tax aspect is inevitable.

/job safe, phew. Thanks to all those who lobbied.

That will definitely happen. There isn't the expertise within Ireland to do it without consulting another country that already has the necessary Laws, rules and regulations in place.

MadsL · 20-07-2006 6:28pm

the industry will be investigated by an external, probably UK consultant who will recommend regulations

Casino employees should then lobby hard to avoid the stupid 'no-tipping' UK rule - supposedly to avoid collusion (yeah, right :rolleyes: ) Even the IOM Hilton has this rule in place (Gala casinos) - it avoids collusion alright, in fact it pretty much reduces the need to casino staff to have any kind of interaction with the punters.

Also taking of Gala, there should be some interest from them in opening operations here once the legislation goes through (be afraid, be very afraid

) representations should be made instead to a certain Mr Wynn of Nevada....

Also, why are people charged membership fees. In UK they don't and the profit margin is lower. Greed I think

Only our friend Dermo does this, it's to pay for the leather seats I think. But to be fair, try asking for your 'lucky chips' on joining Gala.

tricky D · 20-07-2006 6:48pm

kleefarr wrote:

I know that the games rules in Ireland compared to the UK afford Irish casinos more of a profit margin, so it's not an assumption.
If those game rules and regs don't change then in my opinion it would be unfair to pass on the cost to the customer.
Also, why are people charged membership fees. In UK they don't and the profit margin is lower. Greed I think.

Well, 2 casinos have shut down in recent times. Another op 'ran out of money'. I don't know of any casino in Ireland charging membership fees, unless you count free intro bets as a negative membership fee. It's also basic business that costs get passed on to customers and some profit is made. Sure it would be poor show if charges rose when costs/taxes didn't. Casinos are not very different to other businesses and are perfectly entitled to make a profit. However there is the assumption is that casinos (the Irish model) are a licence to print money which is simply not true as the margins are tight.

Scotty # · 20-07-2006 6:55pm

The sky news Ireland vote this evening is "should casinos be banned?"

48%=yes
52%=no

kleefarr · 20-07-2006 7:02pm

MadsL wrote:

Casino employees should then lobby hard to avoid the stupid 'no-tipping' UK rule - supposedly to avoid collusion (yeah, right :rolleyes: ) Even the IOM Hilton has this rule in place (Gala casinos) - it avoids collusion alright, in fact it pretty much reduces the need to casino staff to have any kind of interaction with the punters.

There will always be pros and cons about whether to allow tipping or not in UK. It was under discussion a while ago whether to allow it again or not, but the safety margin for the company (ie not getting ripped off) will always have the upper hand.
I would rather see genuine customer interaction rather than a pushy false approach that will hopefully get a tip. Of course, if no tip is forth coming then there will always be the evil eye. Not good customer care in my opinion.
Still a very debatable subject.

MadsL wrote:

Also taking of Gala, there should be some interest from them in opening operations here once the legislation goes through (be afraid, be very afraid ) representations should be made instead to a certain Mr Wynn of Nevada....

Only our friend Dermo does this, it's to pay for the leather seats I think. But to be fair, try asking for your 'lucky chips' on joining Gala.

Gala? I thought they were in to bingo?

accensi0n · 20-07-2006 7:03pm

Scotty # wrote:

The sky news Ireland vote this evening is "should casinos be banned?"

48%=yes
52%=no

For those of you who voted yes on the "should casinos be banned" poll, have you ever been to a casino?

95%=no
5%=yes

I assume anyway.

kleefarr · 20-07-2006 7:07pm

tricky D wrote:

Well, 2 casinos have shut down in recent times. Another op 'ran out of money'. I don't know of any casino in Ireland charging membership fees, unless you count free intro bets as a negative membership fee. It's also basic business that costs get passed on to customers and some profit is made. Sure it would be poor show if charges rose when costs/taxes didn't. Casinos are not very different to other businesses and are perfectly entitled to make a profit. However there is the assumption is that casinos (the Irish model) are a licence to print money which is simply not true as the margins are tight.

Ran out of money because of bad business practice and poor accounting probably.

I know what the margins are. They're not as tight as in UK. Enough said.

kleefarr · 20-07-2006 7:08pm

accensi0n wrote:

For those of you who voted yes on the "should casinos be banned" poll, have you ever been to a casino?

95%=no
5%=yes

I assume anyway.

Good point. Those that don't want them, don't have to visit them. Simple.

Spiritus · 20-07-2006 11:52pm

Scotty # wrote:

The sky news Ireland vote this evening is "should casinos be banned?"

48%=yes
52%=no

It's a classic hold'em situation.

I thought it was a pity that very probably no one on Sky news realised how apt the poll result was.

Dub13 · 20-07-2006 11:58pm

I would not worry about a Sky News Ireland Poll,the ratings they are getting maybe 17 or 18 people were watching.

Goodluck2me · 21-07-2006 12:01am

of those of you who voted yes, how many of you have recieved a bad beat in the last few days?
Yes: 90%
No: 10%

DeVore · 21-07-2006 4:42am

Wow... didnt see that one coming. <sarcasometer explodes>

Now they'll do what they did with pirate radio (coincidentally just after DD bought a big chunk of one) which is to create a very small number of ridiculously expensive licenses. This makes sure there is no competition oh and if you live outside the big cities, wave bye bye to your poker tournies.

DeV.

Lafortezza · 21-07-2006 4:54am

So does this mean that the casinos will carry on as normal with the table games?

McDowell's U-Turn

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