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The 8 String "Leviathan"

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12357…18

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    #122
    dpmasunder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭dpmasunder


    Jeremy, do you have to travel to Feiten headquarters? I noticed you said something about a training package.


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    #123
    LGM Guitars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭LGM Guitars


    dpmasunder wrote:
    Jeremy, do you have to travel to Feiten headquarters? I noticed you said something about a training package.


    No, for their "stage 1" retro course it's all done through the mail with a DVD and such, stage 2 you have to go there, but I'll be seeing them at NAMM in January as well so I might be able to do something there, but that's primarily for saddles on acoustic instruments which I don't deal with a significant amount.


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    #124
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    dpmasunder wrote:
    I'd agree you may not want to order fanned frets at this stage.
    What string guages/tuning do you use on standard guitar?

    I use 9 guages in standard E tuning.
    And I wouldn't say that I'd not want to order fanned frets, just that the whole thing might need a lot more consideration altogether before I draw up definitive plans and hand over my dosh to Jeremy.
    dpmasunder wrote:
    If you're into low tension you may have to go with an .008 on a 27" scale.
    With standard tuning on the 25.5" scale 7 I use - 65, 52, 42, 30, 17, 13, 10.
    Lately I've been tuning the treble b & e to c & f, so the interval between all strings is the same. I'm using 12 and 9 guages now. Got the idea when I was setting up a 6-string bass. Suddenly the whole guitar made more sense. Weird eh?
    My point is that I don't think I could tune those strings higher on a 27" scale. Maybe an 8 would work but 8's break pretty easily so I'd prefer not.

    Damn good point that LGM made there re. technique on fanned frets.

    The most info I've found on the Feiten system is the patent application. You can read it on the US Patent Office website. Basically it is a two step method. First the nut is moved closer to the bridge. This is something luthiers have been doing for decades to improve intonation on the first couple of frets. The difference is Buzz has bothered to work out exactly how much closer to move it for various string tensions.
    The next part is to intonate the guitar slightly off to make everything equally out of tune. Again he has various secret formulae for types and guages of string. The difference between normal tuned and Feiten tuned is slight but definitely noticable, at least to people with well trained ears. I'd bet, however, that the majority couldn't tell the difference.
    It is still a worthwhile thing to do.
    Just had a thought about fanned frets.
    The string hits the nut on a standard fretboard like this :
    |---
    On a fanned fretboard it looks like this :
    /---
    Wonder if this has any effect on the open string vibration? Certainly would be something to factor in on Feiten tuning.

    I don't know if I'm really gone on the Feiten system either tbh, whereas the fanned frets really do seem to make a lot of sense to me, but in saying that, the problems Jeremy pointed out seem very clear also that a string bent even slightly while tuning could mess up the tuning and intonation.

    Hmm... Maybe I just don't quite understand the Feiten system entirely just yet. The adjusted nut makes sense to me, but to intonate it slightly off? It kinda boggles the mind.

    Hehehe, I guess there's still an awfull lot I'm just a complete newb about.

    Anyway, it's certainly a lot to take into consideration.


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    #125
    Doctor J
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    I think this thread has been enlightening for all of us :)


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    #126
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    Doctor J wrote:
    I think this thread has been enlightening for all of us :)

    Well I can't speak for anyone else, but my knowledge of musical tech has been increased 10 fold! Well maybe not that much, but a lot anyway. How were you enlightened, DocJ? I'd love to know, seeing as you seem easily one of the most enlightened among our ranks.


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    #127
    feylya
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 23,359 Mod ✭✭✭✭feylya


    There's definately been some discussion here that you wouldn't see every day!


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    #128
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    Well that's definetly very true. I don't know how many people would even entertain the idea of an 8 String at all.


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    #129
    Oeneus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭Oeneus


    Karl Hungus wrote:
    I've found some other nice examples of trans-black finishes here and here. Thoughts?

    Edit:

    Actually found some more excellent examples here and here.

    So far, I think this is absolutely beautiful:

    gcs00116.jpg

    I think I'm really gone on the trans-black finish now.

    Haha! Thats the Gibson Les paul model that I have! And yeah. I saw the finish and decided I totally had to have that one!


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    #130
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    Nice Oeneus. 'Tis a wonderfull finish, isn't it?

    And tell me, what are your thoughts on the 8 String?


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    #131
    Oeneus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭Oeneus


    Not too sure whether there would be much need to go lower than a Low-B. But I'm the type that is 100% up for experimentation. So I say go for it, if you can afford it.

    But if I could afford a custom built guitar, I'd get a chrome plated, rounded-off Les Paul with a locking tremelo! With 6 strings!


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    #132
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    Yeah, it's definetly a LOT of low end, but I've definetly got idea of what to do with it. What do you think of all this talk about Fanned Frets, the Buzz Feiten system, and specifiic amps to cope with the extra low end?


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    #133
    Doctor J
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    Karl Hungus wrote:
    Well I can't speak for anyone else, but my knowledge of musical tech has been increased 10 fold! Well maybe not that much, but a lot anyway. How were you enlightened, DocJ? I'd love to know, seeing as you seem easily one of the most enlightened among our ranks.

    Well thanks for saying, but I'm more an enthusiast than enlightened. I just love the instrument and I'm fasinated by how it evolves technically and how people percieve it differently. For example, I was aware of piezo bridges but not in tremolos, after you suggested it I got to thinking about it and did a bit of research and, while it will never replace the magnetic pickup, it's still an interesting alternative, a different take on the same concept. Fanned frets and buzz feiten tuning were also something I had read about and investigated and, while I think I'll survive without either (just like active pickups ;) ), they indicate how well the electric guitar pioneers of the 40's and 50's got it right, and also illustrate how the guitar is now adapted in small ways, rather than by great revolutions. Hearing how people think about the instrument and the options available to the discerning guitar buyer who's prepared to take a step forward, well it always colours how I see, and also play, guitar.

    There is always scope for learning and re-evaluation :D Great thread man.


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    #134
    dpmasunder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭dpmasunder


    Funny thing about active pickups - the radical, cutting edge, EMG-81 is 25 years old this year :eek:

    The thing with low end, ummmmmm, gotta try and not confuse things....
    OK, this is my opinion and my experience only, but I feel regardless of tuning, B, F#, whatever, the frequencies that are 'the guitar' are primarily mids. That's where the definition is and where the 'grind' is. So it's not necessarily the fundamentals of those low notes which hit hardest ;)
    The 15" I used really didn't give more bass, it cleared up the mids.
    BTW the line6 gear through full range speakers doesn't die like real guitar speakers when you hit them with lows, they obviously haven't modeled the physical limitations of the speakers. Cool with me :)

    Karl, roughly what 'style' are you interested in applying the 8-string to?
    Influences? I'm curious.

    I'm enjoying discussing this with opened minded people. Guitarists can be so bloody conservative. So much for rock'n'roll lol.

    No, for their "stage 1" retro course it's all done through the mail with a DVD and such, stage 2 you have to go there, but I'll be seeing them at NAMM in January as well so I might be able to do something there, but that's primarily for saddles on acoustic instruments which I don't deal with a significant amount.

    Ah, that's right. We make very few electrics, mainly acoustic, repairs maybe 50/50. I still don't see why I should travel 7500 miles to be told how to intonate an acoustic guitar saddle :D

    Good luck in NAMM. You got a booth?


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    #135
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    Doctor J wrote:
    Well thanks for saying, but I'm more an enthusiast than enlightened. I just love the instrument and I'm fasinated by how it evolves technically and how people percieve it differently. For example, I was aware of piezo bridges but not in tremolos, after you suggested it I got to thinking about it and did a bit of research and, while it will never replace the magnetic pickup, it's still an interesting alternative, a different take on the same concept. Fanned frets and buzz feiten tuning were also something I had read about and investigated and, while I think I'll survive without either (just like active pickups ;) ), they indicate how well the electric guitar pioneers of the 40's and 50's got it right, and also illustrate how the guitar is now adapted in small ways, rather than by great revolutions. Hearing how people think about the instrument and the options available to the discerning guitar buyer who's prepared to take a step forward, well it always colours how I see, and also play, guitar.

    There is always scope for learning and re-evaluation :D Great thread man.

    Yeah, I really see what you mean, just looking into things like the fanned frets, piezo, Buzz Feiten, sustainers, amp sorts and all kinds of tech now with this thread, it's just phenominal how interesting it all is, and how much you can learn. Thanks, I love this thread too.

    I'm seriously considering getting myself a 7 String in the mean time though. There still is a LOT I'd need to see about first, not to mention getting the money together, which would be problematic at best. If I was rich, I think you'd know what I'd run off and buy. Check the attachments man. :D
    dpmasunder wrote:
    BTW the line6 gear through full range speakers doesn't die like real guitar speakers when you hit them with lows, they obviously haven't modeled the physical limitations of the speakers. Cool with me :)

    That's very interesting to know, so maybe line6 is worth a shot when I do eventually get this 8 String. Thanks.
    dpmasunder wrote:
    Karl, roughly what 'style' are you interested in applying the 8-string to?
    Influences? I'm curious.

    Jesus, I don't know where to begin really. I like a lot of bands like Emperor, Opeth, Enslaved, Death, Porcupine Tree, Burzum, My Dying Bride, Immortal, Arcturus, David Bowie, Metallica and Bjork, to name but a few.

    So my music would probably be leaning quite towards Death Metal, but very progressive more than overly technical. The really low stuff would be kind of a drone, something slow. And I really want to have some fretless bass going on there too, if I ever get around to getting one. I even asked Jeremy if he'd be willing to do a 6 String fretless for me.

    Hope that makes sense to you. :)
    dpmasunder wrote:
    I'm enjoying discussing this with opened minded people. Guitarists can be so bloody conservative. So much for rock'n'roll lol.

    Yeah, thanks! I think it's true that guitarists can be conservative, but there's a lot of people out there who really don't explore the possibilities of the instrument to their fullest in the first place, so additional strings seems absurd to them. Not to mention the fact that a lot of people would be put of by 7 Strings simply because they're seen as a very 'nu-metal' thing. Ignorant ****ers, I'd say, but it's a sad truth.

    But I'm glad everyone's enjoying the thread so much :)


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    #136
    dpmasunder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭dpmasunder


    Similar stuff to what I listen to :D My Dying Bride, old Anathema etc., tons of Opeth, haven't listened to much black metal for a while, Nick Cave, lately I've been really getting into Ramzet and Necrophagist. And John Zorn is doing it for me too, check out his Naked City and Masada stuff if you haven't already. Gotta run to dinner, post later.


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    #137
    Doctor J
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    7 string Stealth, very very nice :D


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    #138
    Ancient1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭Ancient1


    Even though Chuck never played 7 string, i think this particular Stealth would have gotten his attention :)


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    #139
    Doctor J
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    He probably would have lost the trem though ;)


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    #140
    Ancient1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭Ancient1


    Yeah, and one of his Stealths only had a single coil in the neck position - strange, IMO.


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    #141
    Doctor J
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    Nah, if you're not gonna use it, lose it :D


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    #142
    Ancient1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭Ancient1


    Perfect simplicity :)


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    #143
    dpmasunder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭dpmasunder


    So, should I put a pic of my mutilated Ibanez Universe on this thread or the dicksize ego thread? I'll have to post a pic of the guitars I make at work to compensate for how shagged the pUniverse is.


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    #144
    Doctor J
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    Slightly off topic but here's a fretless six string from Hot Wires Bass of Germany. Simplicity itself :D

    dannall.jpg


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    #145
    feylya
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 23,359 Mod ✭✭✭✭feylya


    So it's either on or its not plugged in??


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    #146
    Ancient1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭Ancient1


    So, should I put a pic of my mutilated Ibanez Universe on this thread or the dicksize ego thread?

    Definitely this one :D


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    #147
    Doctor J
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    Yep, that's about the size of it :)

    dpmasunder wrote:
    So, should I put a pic of my mutilated Ibanez Universe on this thread or the dicksize ego thread? I'll have to post a pic of the guitars I make at work to compensate for how shagged the pUniverse is.

    The dicksize thread for sure :D


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    #148
    dpmasunder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭dpmasunder


    To bad about the Fender style headstock requiring those crappy stringtrees.
    Such a fussy bastard is I lol


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    #149
    feylya
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 23,359 Mod ✭✭✭✭feylya


    dpmasunder wrote:
    To bad about the Fender style headstock requiring those crappy stringtrees.
    Such a fussy bastard is I lol

    You've never spoken with me...


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    #150
    dpmasunder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭dpmasunder


    Pics attached -

    first one is my pUniverse, currently up to it's 6th pickup (EMG81-7), 3rd pickguard, 2nd set of saddles, 2nd set of frets. It started as one of the black and green things. The DiMarzio runs through an EMG SPC to buffer and give a touch of mid boost. Finish is oiled then 'sunburst' with a blowtorch :D

    Second and third pics are of the guitars I make at work. Just to prove I don't just make guitars look awful. I also make them purdy :rolleyes:


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    #151
    Ancient1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭Ancient1


    It started as one of the black and green things.

    What's it going to end up as?


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