Pats accused of under inflating game balls against the Colts (MOD WARNING #457)

Hazys · 22-02-2016 5:55pm

Peter King one of the reporters who was pretty tough on the Patriots in the Deflategate saga is now calling for Goodell to give the draft picks back:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/21/roger-goodell-new-england-patriots-nfl-draft-picks-combine-preview

I think with hindsight and actual evidence (not the one sided "evidence" provided by the NFL) a lot of people see that Deflategate was an absolute joke.

Obviously the NFL is not going to give the picks back as they would have basically admit that they went out of their way to screw the Patriots over when they are going to Supreme court next week to try and uphold their suspension of Brady.

I'm actually glad the NFL has chosen to appeal the court's decision and take it to the Supreme Court as when Deflategate first broke it was all one sided corrupt information filling the air waves and damning the Patriots. Now that the initial dust has settled and the actual facts are coming out, hopefully and its looking that way, that the air waves will start to be filled with how corrupt and the dirty the NFL acted in all aspects of Deflategate from how the leaked inaccurate information to make the Pats look bad, to the not so independent investigation to the unethical and OTT punishment.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 22-02-2016 9:11pm

Hazys wrote: »

I think with hindsight and actual evidence (not the one sided "evidence" provided by the NFL) a lot of people see that Deflategate was an absolute joke.

The best thing that happened the Pats was when the case went to the courts.
The trial, the comments of the independent judge, and the verdict handed down; all combined to show just how ludicrous the NFL office was in reaching their verdict. The judge slammed them throughout the trial, repeatedly questioning just about every decision they took.

The release of the transcript of Brady's appeal was huge. Goodell stating that Brady failed to co-operate with the appeal (after independent people stated Brady was impressive during it), only for the transcript to show that Brady answered ever question asked of him.

When this entire story broke, I wanted the Pats hit hard if they had done what they were accused of. It seemed like a crazy thing to be doing for pretty much no reward (as shown by the two halves of the AFC game). But since then, it's just been scandalous behavior by the NFL.

No proof, nothing. $5m on a report that's been shown to be flawed. This massive conspiracy they believe that was going on, and the NFL come up empty. They have an appeal hearing and Goodell lies. They go to court, and an independent judge hammers them so many times for their actions; a case they initiated and are ruled against. And now, they take it to the Supreme Court (who really shouldn't be even be bothered with this, but it's gone beyond deflategate).

Science tells them that they were wrong. An independent judge tells them they were wrong. Reporters (who initially were on their side) tell them they were wrong.
Will they take the hint if the Supreme Court tells them that they were wrong? No.
Thankfully Brady didn't take it without a fight, unlike Kraft.

Hazys · 03-03-2016 8:21pm

ESPN lists out some but not all of the journalistic mistakes they made during Deflategate but no apology:

http://espn.go.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/id/624/on-deflategate-espn-air-balls-on-transparency

To those looking for a smoking gun around some kind of ESPN-NFL collaboration in impugning the Patriots, I don’t have it. But that doesn’t mean you’re crazy for wondering whether something was afoot. The sources of Mortensen’s story were inside the NFL, and the league never made any attempt to refute the incorrect reference to 2 PSI in that story. If you believe the thesis of Van Natta and Wickersham’s piece, the NFL wanted to come down hard on the Patriots for Deflategate, and there’s little question that Mortensen’s story made that easier. This is a case where it would behoove ESPN to be as transparent as possible about its Deflategate coverage precisely because of its $1.9 billion-a-year relationship with the NFL.

Well as Pats fans that is the best we can expect.

Hell if even ESPN can take a moment to look where they f'd up and come clean then maybe, just maybe the NFL can too!!*

*No fcuking chance, Goodell has dug himself into a hole and continues to try and dig himself out...he's going to ride this wave of corruption to the bitter end

Alfred Borden · 03-03-2016 10:13pm

https://twitter.com/BartHubbuch/status/705489275257806848

https://twitter.com/BartHubbuch/status/705489741358231552

Billy86 · 03-03-2016 10:51pm

Well this could get interesting for the first time in 800 posts...

StringerBell · 03-03-2016 10:51pm

Compelling, if not overwhelming was the quote.

StringerBell · 03-03-2016 10:56pm

Brady is looking at a 2-1 defeat according to to some who were there. Judges grilled his attorney Kessler.

D9Male · 03-03-2016 11:16pm

Goodness me. I am surprised. Weeks away from a judgement, though.

Hazys · 03-03-2016 11:16pm

StringerBell wrote: »

Compelling, if not overwhelming was the quote.

Wow, i wasn't expecting that.

Judge Berman laughed off the evidence and his colleague thought it was compelling.

I know I'm biased but I thought any rational person would find the evidence sketchy at best, certainly not compelling.

JaMarcusHustle · 03-03-2016 11:32pm

This appeal has nothing to do with Brady being guilty or not. It's whether the NFL acted within their authority or not with their punishment. The judges could have personally witnessed Brady stabbing footballs with a screwdriver, it doesn't matter. That's not what they are determining.

StringerBell · 03-03-2016 11:33pm

No reason to panic yet, only getting little updates from journalists who were there, long way to go I think. I find the quote compelling, if not overwhelming incredible myself. No idea what he sees as compelling.

Bad day at the office for Kessler anyway, read somewhere he didn't even get to make his opening statement before getting pounded with questions...

D9Male · 03-03-2016 11:34pm

True, that. But it's not a good look for Brady.

JCTO · 03-03-2016 11:44pm

It Baffles my mind how two judges with the same evidence and statements and case can have very different views in fact polar opposite views on the same thing.

I mean how is a guy smashing his phone after buying a new one compelling, if not overwhelming? I don't get that at all. Whether you believe Brady or not it is hardly compelling and definitely not overwhelming.

Hazys · 03-03-2016 11:44pm

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

This appeal has nothing to do with Brady being guilty or not. It's whether the NFL acted within their authority or not with their punishment. The judges could have personally witnessed Brady stabbing footballs with a screwdriver, it doesn't matter. That's not what they are determining.

The line of questioning is very troubling, Judge Berman spent the majority of his time tearing apart the Wells report, at one stage he used air quotes when calling it an "independent" investigation.

One of the judges asked the NFLPA as Brady destroyed his cell phone "Why couldn't Goodell suspend him for that action alone?"

Before Kessler even started talking the Judge lectured him on the the courtroom dress code.

The line of questioning is very troubling.

eagle eye · 04-03-2016 12:34am

It's the Supreme Court, they like to tear everybody apart. I wouldn't be worried about little quotes coming out about what they said. You'll see them rip apart the NFL also.

AbusesToilets · 04-03-2016 4:45am

Oh well, looks like more fortunes will be made by lawyers before this is dead and buried.

Just keep stoking that fire boys...

04-03-2016 9:33am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Oh well, looks like more fortunes will be made by lawyers before this is dead and buried.

Just keep stoking that fire boys...

The poor multi billion dollar NFL and billionaire Kraft and multi millionaire Brady are just suckers. It's all the fault of the legal system. Why can't a massive franchise cheat and just be left alone?

AbusesToilets · 04-03-2016 1:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The poor multi billion dollar NFL and billionaire Kraft and multi millionaire Brady are just suckers. It's all the fault of the legal system. Why can't a massive franchise cheat and just be left alone?

Poor effort there, you've got work on your baiting skills.

eagle eye · 04-03-2016 1:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The poor multi billion dollar NFL and billionaire Kraft and multi millionaire Brady are just suckers. It's all the fault of the legal system. Why can't a massive franchise cheat and just be left alone?

Clearly comes out with his hate for the most successful franchise over the last 15 years.

I'm just so surprised you are a Packers fan because most of those guys are real football lovers not full of vitriol like you. I think you'd be better off supporting the Jets, those fans would be more your type imo.

04-03-2016 1:50pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm just so surprised you are a Packers fan because most of those guys are real football lovers not full of vitriol like you...

Laughing is not vitriol.

And come on, blaming the whole things on lawyers now...you have to admit that's funny.

I do find it all a bit of a circus at this stage. The Pats were caught (yet again), they've accepted the penalty. There seems to be this idea that if Brady is exonerated, that clears the Pats. It doesn't.

By the way, having a go at posters because they have a go at the Pats ("oooooo you're just full of vitriol") only increases the amusement.

Wasn't that the Lance Armstrong defence? Yeah he was cheating, but like those who pointed it out were embittered.

eagle eye · 04-03-2016 1:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Laughing is not vitriol.

And come on, blaming the whole things on lawyers now...you have to admit that's funny.

I do find it all a bit of a circus at this stage. The Pats were caught (yet again), they've accepted the penalty. There seems to be this idea that if Brady is exonerated, that clears the Pats. It doesn't.

By the way, having a go at posters because they have a go at the Pats ("oooooo you're just full of vitriol") only increases the amusement.

Wasn't that the Lance Armstrong defence? Yeah he was cheating, but like those who pointed it out were embittered.

I didn't see anybody post that the lawyers were the problem, just post that the lawyers are going to make millions more money before this ridiculous nonsense is over and done with.

You read what you liked out of it to post your vitriol. You can try and deny it now but it's very clear in your post that you hate the Patriots. I don't hate any team, I actually quite like the Packers and it's got a lot to do with a lot of Green Bay fans I've met over the years.

All of them come across as football fans who admire great players no matter who they play for.

You come across as somebody who just loves to hate on players, franchises, coaches, etc. That is not a trait I associate with Green Bay Packers fans which is why I said you'd be better off supporting somebody like the Jets where you'd find plenty of like-minded fans.

04-03-2016 2:28pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I didn't see anybody post that the lawyers were the problem, just post that the lawyers are going to make millions more money before this ridiculous nonsense is over and done with.

You read what you liked out of it to post your vitriol. You can try and deny it now but it's very clear in your post that you hate the Patriots. I don't hate any team, I actually quite like the Packers and it's got a lot to do with a lot of Green Bay fans I've met over the years.

All of them come across as football fans who admire great players no matter who they play for.

You come across as somebody who just loves to hate on players, franchises, coaches, etc. That is not a trait I associate with Green Bay Packers fans which is why I said you'd be better off supporting somebody like the Jets where you'd find plenty of like-minded fans.

Another post about me?

Look, it's great that you like the Packers...but the topic is the Pats tampering with footballs.

A poster said the issue was being stoked by lawyers. I disagree. If there are fortunes being spent in legal fees addressing the fallout from cheating, so be it. The fault rests entirely with the parties that did wrong, not the legal system.

JCTO · 04-03-2016 4:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A poster said the issue was being stoked by lawyers. I disagree. If there are fortunes being spent in legal fees addressing the fallout from cheating, so be it. The fault rests entirely with the parties that did wrong, not the legal system.

Did they? Abuses toilets said more fortunes will be made by lawyers. He didn't say anything about lawyers stoking the issue. Where are you getting this nonsense from. Making up posts to suit your agenda?

JCTO · 04-03-2016 4:43pm

As for the Pats cheating and accepting it? Kraft jumped the gun accepting his penalty and no one from the Pats ever really admitted cheating, more nonsense from you. Kraft was issued a fine and the loss of draft picks which he decided not to fight and Kraft accepted said fine and loss of draft picks without fighting. In fact many believe he should have gone against it even now many of those who said the Pats cheated have changed their tune on it. Kraft should have fougt the fine/pick loss but insiders felt he had no choice but to accept it due to pressure of the other owners.

This is what I love about all of this. Many haters just can't can't see facts at all and stick to the argument without any proof or backing up their argument and just say "Oh well just another case of the Pats cheating". I hate the Pats and it really doesn't matter if the case was bs or the NFL made up stuff I am going to stick to my belief they cheated. Do I really care about the truth? No because the Pats cheated.

We cheated during spygate by having a camera guy in the wrong spot according to the rules. That I can admit. But this spygate stuff is nothing more than agendas and hatred and made up nonsense without actual solid proof.

04-03-2016 5:49pm

JCTO wrote: »

He didn't say anything about lawyers stoking the issue. Where are you getting this nonsense from. Making up posts to suit your agenda?

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Oh well, looks like more fortunes will be made by lawyers before this is dead and buried.

Just keep stoking that fire boys...

As for agenda, seriously?

Pointing out that the Pats (not Kraft) were fined and stripped of draft picks, which decision was accepted, is part of an "agenda". Or as another poster suggested, it's "vitriol"?

We'll just have to agree to differ I guess...

eagle eye · 04-03-2016 6:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As for agenda, seriously?

Pointing out that the Pats (not Kraft) were fined and stripped of draft picks, which decision was accepted, is part of an "agenda". Or as another poster suggested, it's "vitriol"?

We'll just have to agree to differ I guess...

And on and on you go proving what I said about you with every post.

JCTO · 04-03-2016 8:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Pointing out that the Pats (not Kraft) were fined and stripped of draft picks, which decision was accepted, is part of an "agenda". Or as another poster suggested, it's "vitriol"?

The agenda you have is constantly pointing out the Patriots cheated just because Kraft accepted the Fine and loss of picks. Which he actually had no choice but to accept anyways unless he decided to do what Brady did and take it to court.

Either way reports came out saying the owners would not have backed Krafts decision to fight the decision of the NFL because at the time like you now the owners felt like the Patriots did cheat. So Kraft was backed into a corner with 31 other owners agreeing with the NFL. But was it his acceptance of the Patriots cheating? The man didn't know the full details at the time of accepting hence why everyone was angry with him for accepting defeat on the fine and picks.

But hey if you want to say that is the Pats admitting they cheated go right ahead you are entitled to your opinion. You will be met with same responses to your post every time with the posts you offer. you never really have offered anything other than "Oh the Pats Cheated".

05-03-2016 1:24am

eagle eye wrote: »

And on and on you go proving what I said about you with every post.

And yet still, it's not a thread about me.

Check out the topic title. Stick to it. Prove that the Pats cheated, or didn't. "Proving" something about me just suggests desperation.

05-03-2016 1:27am

JCTO wrote: »

The agenda you have is constantly pointing out the Patriots cheated just because Kraft accepted the Fine and loss of picks. Which he actually had no choice but to accept anyways unless he decided to do what Brady did and take it to court.

The agenda I have is pointing out the ruling that the Pats cheated and accepted it?

I guess it's just me, the Pats organisation and the NFL so! It's gotta be a conspiracy...

StringerBell · 05-03-2016 2:14am

Wouldn't bother wasting any time responding to that lad in fairness, it's hardly like any headway is going to be made and what difference does it make what some lad on a message board thinks in the grand scheme of things?

I'm looking forward to seeing how they question the NFL, they have been pretty hard on Kessler, I would expect the same treatment and scrutiny of the other side also.

Long way to go yet.

05-03-2016 7:11am

StringerBell wrote: »

Wouldn't bother wasting any time responding to that lad in fairness, it's hardly like any headway is going to be made and what difference does it make what some lad on a message board thinks in the grand scheme of things?

Like all opinions on every topic here, it wil make no difference whatsoever. That applies whether one accepts the ruling that the Pats cheated, refuses to accept it, acceots it but thinks the sanction too harsh, or whatever.

eagle eye · 05-03-2016 12:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The agenda I have is pointing out the ruling that the Pats cheated and accepted it?

I guess it's just me, the Pats organisation and the NFL so! It's gotta be a conspiracy...

Bob Kraft had no choice. He wasn't going to win an appeal that Goodell was presiding over and if he tried to take it to court he risks losing his franchise. The only thing he did was not waste time and money on a stupid in-house appeal.

As for the rest of it. You and Goodell and his team believe something went on, or want to try and make it look like something went on.

Even ESPN has backed down on it. One of the most respected football writers(Peter King) wrote an article telling the NFL to give back the draft picks to the Patriots. There is nobody that I know of in the media who is continuing on with this backing the NFL.

I suppose there could be a Skip Bayless type doing that but we all know they just do it to try and stay in the news.

Anyways from now on I'll always think of you as the only memeber of the Packers fans who hate on other successful franchises club.

Maybe putting you on ignore might be a good option.

StringerBell · 05-03-2016 1:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Like all opinions on every topic here, it wil make no difference whatsoever. That applies whether one accepts the ruling that the Pats cheated, refuses to accept it, acceots it but thinks the sanction too harsh, or whatever.

Exactly why it makes it even more crazy for anybody to waste their time trying to give you counter points, of course in some rare occasions people actually do change opinions on here, but very rarely does anybody change an agenda so there is no point in trying to have any sort of reasoned debate with you for example.

You have your opinion/agenda, and you push it every chance you get. Fair play to you, as long as you keep to the charter your entitled to keep banging that drum.

People are of course entitled to argue with you too but all things considered I couldn't see how it is worth their time.

AbusesToilets · 05-03-2016 4:43pm

My statement about stoking a fire was in reference to feeding Brady more motivational material. Booing him at the SB was more of it. Only injuries kept the Patriots from setting records this past season.

It's like the NFL wants him keep breaking hearts for another decade :pac:

05-03-2016 9:14pm

StringerBell wrote: »

Exactly why it makes it even more crazy for anybody to waste their time trying to give you counter points, of course in some rare occasions people actually do change opinions on here, but very rarely does anybody change an agenda so there is no point in trying to have any sort of reasoned debate with you for example.

You have your opinion/agenda, and you push it every chance you get. Fair play to you, as long as you keep to the charter your entitled to keep banging that drum.

People are of course entitled to argue with you too but all things considered I couldn't see how it is worth their time.

Um, I suspect the charter doesn't really disallow someone from referring to a finding against an organisation!

There is something in it about staying on topic. The topic isn't me. I appreciate it may be easier to get personal with a poster who merely observes that there was a finding that Pats employees tampered with footballs. It's done, it's over, there was no appeal against that. You are entitled to disagree with the findings, of course.

eagle eye · 06-03-2016 6:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Um, I suspect the charter doesn't really disallow someone from referring to a finding against an organisation!

There is something in it about staying on topic. The topic isn't me. I appreciate it may be easier to get personal with a poster who merely observes that there was a finding that Pats employees tampered with footballs. It's done, it's over, there was no appeal against that. You are entitled to disagree with the findings, of course.

People here are just being real about things. It's quite clear that you take any chance you get to spit vitriol about the Patriots.

If you don't see that then you really need to read every post you have ever had that relates to the Patriots.

06-03-2016 7:33pm

eagle eye wrote: »

People here are just being real about things. It's quite clear that you take any chance you get to spit vitriol about the Patriots.

If you don't see that then you really need to read every post you have ever had that relates to the Patriots.

I suspect I haven't posted on this thread in months.

The only time I referred to the Pats in another thread was when some Pats fan brought up the persecution thing, yet again.

But keep posting away about me.

eagle eye · 09-03-2016 11:38am

Hazys wrote: »

The line of questioning is very troubling, Judge Berman spent the majority of his time tearing apart the Wells report, at one stage he used air quotes when calling it an "independent" investigation.

One of the judges asked the NFLPA as Brady destroyed his cell phone "Why couldn't Goodell suspend him for that action alone?"

Before Kessler even started talking the Judge lectured him on the the courtroom dress code.

The line of questioning is very troubling.

I finally got time to catch up on this. Brady's team didn't have a great day but neither did the NFL.
The judges asked the NFL team what advantages deflated footballs afforded a team. They also asked how deflated footballs would be any different to stickum as regards being conduct detrimental to the game.

This wasn't even close to being tough for one side and easy for the other one.

Vanolder · 25-04-2016 4:45pm

Bump.

4 games.

Billy86 · 25-04-2016 4:53pm

Statement: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25566155/tom-bradys-four-game-deflategate-suspension-reinstated-by-appeals-court

We hold that the Commissioner properly exercised his broad discretion under the collective bargaining agreement and that his procedural rulings were properly grounded in that agreement and did not deprive Brady of fundamental fairness. Accordingly, we REVERSE the judgment of the district court and REMAND with instructions to confirm the award.
Brady is suspened the first four games of the 2016 as a result.

Going to miss @Cardinals, vs Dolphins, vs Texans and vs Bills. Hard to tell how the last three will be next season to be honest, but aside from that potentially-brutal opener it could be a 'fortunate' (for want of a better word) three for him to be suspended for.

Augme · 25-04-2016 4:55pm

Beefy78 · 25-04-2016 4:55pm

Justice!

Beefy78 · 25-04-2016 4:59pm

All joking aside, no good comes from putting the suspension through at this stage. I think there's some damage-limitation/moral high-ground to be taken by NFL/Goddell in dropping the whole mess at this point rather than dragging this out for another Summer in which no one looks good.

This week of all weeks (with the Pats not getting their fist round pick on Thursday) he should just draw a line under it.

JCTO · 25-04-2016 5:03pm

The American Justice system ladies and gentleman. I wonder will there be another appeal for the appeal that they appealed.

Hazys · 25-04-2016 5:05pm

Insanity

JCTO · 25-04-2016 5:05pm

What is sad is this whole farce is going to make for a great season for the idiot Goodell and all the haters. Im sure even with Jimmy the Pats will still make the playoffs. In Jimmy we trust

helimachoptor · 25-04-2016 5:06pm

I will ban anyone that starts trolling this thread after the Brady announcement.

Beefy78 · 25-04-2016 5:06pm

JCTO wrote: »

The American Justice system ladies and gentleman. I wonder will there be another appeal for the appeal that they appealed.

An appeal to the Supreme Court I believe is possible and probably likely. Which if you think about it for just one single second (a guy not being allowed to play a game for four weeks goes to the highest court in the most powerful country on Earth) is totally mental.

Just drop it so can we all just draw a line under it and move on with our lives??

JCTO · 25-04-2016 5:08pm

helimachoptor wrote: »

I will ban anyone that starts trolling this thread after the Brady announcement.

At this point who cares though? Goodell has been trolling the NFL for the last 2 years. This thread is going to descend into another pointless debate over whether or not Brady is actually guilty. At this point I could care less and welcome the idiot trolls. Pats will still be in the playoffs come January 2017.

JCTO · 25-04-2016 5:10pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

An appeal to the Supreme Court I believe is possible and probably likely. Which if you think about it for just one single second (a guy not being allowed to play a game for four weeks goes to the highest court in the most powerful country on Earth) is totally mental.

Just drop it so can we all just draw a line under it and move on with our lives??

You know Brady aint going to want to drop it and I am sure they will weigh up their options of appealing again and decide if they appeal will it push the 4 games past this coming season if they lose.

Pats accused of under inflating game balls against the Colts (MOD WARNING #457)

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