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"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

1…34689…57

Comments

  • #252
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    Pablo Sanchez wrote: »
    Bizarre. Im sorry i signed up for this thing today.

    Hey it's public run public transport, what do you expect? My expectations are always quite low. But this LEAP card is still better than having different cards, or having to pay in cash. Makes things quicker.

    I always see people running to the LUAS and then paying in cash for a ticket at the machine. If they had a Luas or now a LEAP card, they could just swipe it and get on, no rush needed.

    So you are sorry for signing up? I assume you'll be using the old fashioned way of paying in cash or having separate tickets?


  • #253
    misslt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭misslt


    What does this mean for the current smartcards, say the student one?

    I pay €16.50 for 5 days travel, travelling from Swords to UCD.

    If I were paying cash, I'd either be paying €2.60 each way on the Xpresso bus, or €4.15 each way on say the 41 and 39a. I'm saving a ton with the smartcards, but if I were switch to Leap, I'd be paying the same as cash fares, is that right?

    Are there plans to bring in Student fares on par with the current Student Rambler tickets? Will the ramblers be phased out?

    Maybe I'm missing something but for someone that uses Dublin Bus only, are they saving anything by using Leap? :confused:


  • #254
    Pablo Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Pablo Sanchez


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    Hey it's public run public transport, what do you expect? My expectations are always quite low. But this LEAP card is still better than having different cards, or having to pay in cash. Makes things quicker.

    I always see people running to the LUAS and then paying in cash for a ticket at the machine. If they had a Luas or now a LEAP card, they could just swipe it and get on, no rush needed.

    So you are sorry for signing up? I assume you'll be using the old fashioned way of paying in cash or having separate tickets?

    I think the idea is great, i rarely use public transport and when i do its always a pain to have the right amount in change etc, i see it also covers the nightlink which is excellent.

    What makes me sorry i signed up is the fact that i will receive my card, with the €20 credit i put on it, and when i try to use the bus it wont let me without first finding a participating shop and 'activating it'. If it were not for this thread i would have no idea it was even an issue

    How do I use my Leap Card?


    1. Using your Leap Card is easy. You just add Travel Credit to your card to pay-as-you-go for each journey. When your Travel Credit starts to run low, just Top-Up again!
    1. You can Top-Up your card:
    No mention of the other necessary hoops.


  • #255
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    I think you would be better off sticking with the student card. As I look at this leaflet in front of me it says "Student Leap cards are not currently available, however they will go on sale in the future".

    But sure I mean come on, having something like that available at launch? Far too complex for our public transport system to start all at once! ;)


  • #256
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    misslt wrote: »
    What does this mean for the current smartcards, say the student one?

    I pay €16.50 for 5 days travel, travelling from Swords to UCD.

    If I were paying cash, I'd either be paying €2.60 each way on the Xpresso bus, or €4.15 each way on say the 41 and 39a. I'm saving a ton with the smartcards, but if I were switch to Leap, I'd be paying the same as cash fares, is that right?

    Are there plans to bring in Student fares on par with the current Student Rambler tickets? Will the ramblers be phased out?

    Maybe I'm missing something but for someone that uses Dublin Bus only, are they saving anything by using Leap? :confused:

    Right now a student buying a Leap card might as well be a turkey buying a basting brush...

    I'd suggest Missit,that you splash out on at least one 30 day Student Rambler asap which with any luck will bring you to the launch of Student Leap.

    The Student Leap product will be a personalized card with a Photo ID inbuilt,which will immediately solve a lot of the revenue protection issues surrounding Student Tickets in general. ;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #257
    robd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    I think you would be better off sticking with the student card. As I look at this leaflet in front of me it says "Student Leap cards are not currently available, however they will go on sale in the future".

    But sure I mean come on, having something like that available at launch? Far too complex for our public transport system to start all at once! ;)

    It's no different to how the Oyster card in London and many other systems were implemented. Functionality is grouped, and the system is rolled out in stages. As the user base is increased and the kinks are ironed out new functionality is added, increasing the user base further.

    This is the modern approach to technology projects. Anyone with experience of rolling out technology projects would be in agreement with this approach.

    I've gone through 2 test phases and have being using it for about 8 weeks in total now.


  • #258
    noelfirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 634 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    As has been discussed before in here, how exactly are people expecting their cards to receive credit when they top up online? A bolt of lightning from above? This is exactly the same type of system that has been put in place in other cities and countries. You nominate a mechanism to collect your credit and you get it there. There's no other way to physically tell the card that it has been topped up. An improvement might be to allow ANY location collection of credit (TVM or any shop) and a definite improvement would be to send out the credit as quickly as possible (the FAQ online suggests up to 48h, which is pretty insane).

    Some suggestions that it could be done on bus, but this would require fitting all buses with a live connection to the backend database or at least the distribution of daily white lists to buses at the garages.


  • #259
    noelfirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 634 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    Pablo Sanchez wrote: »
    I think the idea is great, i rarely use public transport and when i do its always a pain to have the right amount in change etc, i see it also covers the nightlink which is excellent.

    What makes me sorry i signed up is the fact that i will receive my card, with the €20 credit i put on it, and when i try to use the bus it wont let me without first finding a participating shop and 'activating it'. If it were not for this thread i would have no idea it was even an issue

    How do I use my Leap Card?


    1. Using your Leap Card is easy. You just add Travel Credit to your card to pay-as-you-go for each journey. When your Travel Credit starts to run low, just Top-Up again!
    1. You can Top-Up your card:
    No mention of the other necessary hoops.

    When you filled in the online form to apply for your card, did you nominate a collection point for your credit? If not I don't think you need to activate your credit. One would assume that ordered cards come with credit on them, whereas the above section of the site refers to additional top ups after you receive the card (although it is a point they should clarify in their FAQs).


  • #260
    penexpers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭penexpers


    I just checked and Oyster card has the same restrictions on top-up. You can top-up online but it needs to be activated at a tube station/tram stop.


  • #261
    Pablo Sanchez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Pablo Sanchez


    noelfirl wrote: »
    When you filled in the online form to apply for your card, did you nominate a collection point for your credit? If not I don't think you need to activate your credit. One would assume that ordered cards come with credit on them, whereas the above section of the site refers to additional top ups after you receive the card (although it is a point they should clarify in their FAQs).

    Actually they didnt ask me to nominate a pick up point, so perhaps the first one comes preloaded and ready to go.

    I know people are asking if were expecting cards to be credited as if by magic, thats not the case, i simply thought that your credit info is held on a central database and when you scan your card it confirms if you have sufficient credit or not for the transaction, similar to collecting points on your Tesco card or as DB themselves say, like topping up your phone credit.


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  • #262
    misslt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭misslt


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Right now a student buying a Leap card might as well be a turkey buying a basting brush...

    I'd suggest Missit,that you splash out on at least one 30 day Student Rambler asap which with any luck will bring you to the launch of Student Leap.

    The Student Leap product will be a personalized card with a Photo ID inbuilt,which will immediately solve a lot of the revenue protection issues surrounding Student Tickets in general. ;)

    Thanks! I might see if the budget will stretch to two, can I still use them until the expiry date on the front or will they be phased out before that?

    Here's hoping the student leap cards will offer some savings...otherwise I'll be moving to within cycling distance of UCD :)


  • #263
    scary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 416 ✭✭scary


    Went to 2 different shops to get the card, first shop said it wasn't out for another week and the other had them but were not authorized to sell them as they were waiting on a rep to come out and activate them before they could be sold.
    Not a great start really.


  • #264
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,526 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Do you what location the shops were in, Scary. Presumably, where you got the card, should have had it done in weeks in advance to get the system up and running.

    I've been a 7 bus twice on Friday and as expected both buses had the two validators in place.

    That problem not getting your card today seems mysterious if you ask me.:confused:


  • #265
    BenShermin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭BenShermin


    scary wrote: »
    Went to 2 different shops to get the card, first shop said it wasn't out for another week and the other had them but were not authorized to sell them as they were waiting on a rep to come out and activate them before they could be sold.
    Not a great start really.
    Actually quite surprised people are having problems purchasing the card. I went to my local Londis this afternoon and asked for the card, the clerk asked me to give him a minute as the cards were in the stockroom. Two minutes later himself and the entire five staff in the shop came to my till and the manager gave the staff training on how to issue the card. Bantering away with the lads behind the counter I was told that I was the first punter to buy the card in that shop.

    No problems getting the €1.85 fare on the bus, and no double charging me either, but it is a very slow process.


  • #266
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,526 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I just read that if people are using the free travel scheme at the moment, will be entitled to a leap card with details linked from the DSP. :eek:

    I suppose, I thinking now is that the DSP 'use' their details like a student leap card, with their photo taken and everything else. That is quite shocking to know that detail today. I thought those details were for a seperate National ID Card.

    Did anyone else hear at all if I may ask?

    Hear is the article to prove that.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1212/breaking41.html


  • #267
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    It's not good UI to expect the LEAP card user to realise that after they buy credit online they have to activate it. You can roll your eyes up to heaven and ask "well do you think that every bus has an Internet connection", to which the majority of the public will probably say "I guess".

    There's an education deficit there that should be addressed or my bus will be stuck for hours while the driver explains to people who "bought credit online last night" that there is nothing on their card.

    I also hadn't realised credit can take 48 hours to be applied. For goodness sake why?


  • #268
    scary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 416 ✭✭scary


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    Do you what location the shops were in, Scary. Presumably, where you got the card, should have had it done in weeks in advance to get the system up and running.

    I've been a 7 bus twice on Friday and as expected both buses had the two validators in place.

    That problem not getting your card today seems mysterious if you ask me.:confused:

    Both shops were in the square in tallaght hopefully I'll pick one up tomorrow somewhere


  • #269
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    I just read that if people are using the free travel scheme at the moment, will be entitled to a leap card with details linked from the DSP. :eek:

    I suppose, I thinking now is that the DSP 'use' their details like a student leap card, with their photo taken and everything else. That is quite shocking to know that detail today. I thought those details were for a seperate National ID Card.

    Did anyone else hear at all if I may ask?

    Hear is the article to prove that.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1212/breaking41.html

    HMMMMmmmmmm....This IS a new development,and one wonders if "The Paper of Record" has got it correct ?

    If it's true then Whoopee,at last somebody has applied a little logic,but I suspect it's mis/disinformation in the heat of a moment....?

    BTW,I just love Mammy tellin us in 2002 that she wanted it in within TWO years ....:D :D:D


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #270
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    http://www.ov-chipkaart.nl/

    The Dutch smart-card system seems to involve readers when exiting the bus.

    So it seems you tag-on and tag-off on the bus.

    The fare is a fixed 79c per trip + a distance fee depending per km where you live.

    Key point: the 79c is charged once, so if you switch to a different bus / tram during the same trip you are not charged the 79c again.

    The Leap system doesn't allow that yet, but it will eventually (I think).


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  • #271
    Flukey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭Flukey


    Some interesting quotes in that article:

    IrishTimes wrote:
    The launch of the Leap Card follows 15,000 successful test journeys by members of the public, according to Mr Kelly.

    What exactly constitutes a successful test journey?
    IrishTimes wrote:
    We will have a media campaign in the New Year.

    Seeing at the official launch was yesterday and the taste phase, at which time there was also publicity, isn't that leaving it a bit late? I know the media is tied up with Christmas ads at present, but they should really be advertising it with gusto from now, so that people will get one before the new year starts.
    IrishTimes wrote:
    He said error rates in the new system were “exceptionally low” at less than half of one per cent of journeys.

    A bit like questioning what a successful journey is, what exactly does this mean? If people are being overcharged, and I am not even including double payments in that, that is a flaw. We all know about the problems with people not knowing how many stages they are travelling. From what we've seen in the threads here, even allowing for the fact that people are more likely to post when they have had a problem, you would expect error rates to be higher than that.


  • #272
    Baron de Robeck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭Baron de Robeck


    Well so much for reliability, the Leap card "technology" has caused most (maybe all?) card readers to crash this morning. When our driver called control to inform them of his dead card reader he was told it was happening across the city!!

    Lots of free journeys today..........


  • #273
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    Baron de Robeck wrote: »
    Well so much for reliability, the Leap card "technology" has caused most (maybe all?) card readers to crash this morning. When our driver called control to inform them of his dead card reader he was told it was happening across the city!!

    Sounds like they applied an update last night - it's be working fine for weeks.


  • #274
    SandyfordGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 450 ✭✭SandyfordGuy


    No problem on Bus and Train this morning for me.


  • #275
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    No problem for me either on the bus or train.


  • #276
    Baron de Robeck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭Baron de Robeck


    It was a Conyngham Road bus I was on and several more were affected, may be confined to just the one garage. A colleague had the same issue on the 13 but she wouldn't know what depot the bus was from.


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  • #277
    robd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    Baron de Robeck wrote: »
    It was a Conyngham Road bus I was on and several more were affected, may be confined to just the one garage. A colleague had the same issue on the 13 but she wouldn't know what depot the bus was from.

    Had similar problem yesterday on Clontarf Buses which is probably related. Free travel in the morning, was sorted by afternoon.


  • #278
    angel01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,030 ✭✭✭angel01


    Baron de Robeck wrote: »
    Well so much for reliability, the Leap card "technology" has caused most (maybe all?) card readers to crash this morning. When our driver called control to inform them of his dead card reader he was told it was happening across the city!!

    Lots of free journeys today..........

    Same on 2 buses that I was on this morning...


  • #279
    SilverLiningOK
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭SilverLiningOK


    Just saw this thread, after posting elsewhere -

    Local Spar has the Leap signs up on door but no cards yet. This roll out seems flawed. Who is supposed to be doing it ? They should have got someone in from the euro changeover. We even got the coins in advance to get used to them and notes were available from day one.

    Not a good start. It is not going to encourage people to use them if they can't get them. I am on the northside, is the rest of the city any better ?


  • #280
    holidaysong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 401 ✭✭holidaysong


    Used it on the DART from Tara Street to Clontarf Road this morning and I'm not really sure how much I've been charged?

    When I tagged in at Tara it said -4.30 (which I guess is the maximum fare that they charge you if you don't then tag off somewhere) but when I tagged off at Clontarf it said -2.90 (which is probably the return fare). But what If I don't return on the DART this afternoon, will I get that return part refunded onto my card?


  • #281
    holidaysong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 401 ✭✭holidaysong


    SilverLiningOK wrote: »
    Just saw this thread, after posting elsewhere -

    Local Spar has the Leap signs up on door but no cards yet. This roll out seems flawed. Who is supposed to be doing it ? They should have got someone in from the euro changeover. We even got the coins in advance to get used to them and notes were available from day one.

    Not a good start. It is not going to encourage people to use them if they can't get them. I am on the northside, is the rest of the city any better ?

    I tried four newsagents on Grafton Street yesterday before I got one. Eventually got one in Spar at the bottom of Grafton Street, just across from TCD.


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  • #282
    robd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    holidaysong wrote: »
    Used it on the DART from Tara Street to Clontarf Road this morning and I'm not really sure how much I've been charged?

    When I tagged in at Tara it said -4.30 (which I guess is the maximum fare that they charge you if you don't then tag off somewhere) but when I tagged off at Clontarf it said -2.90 (which is probably the return fare). But what If I don't return on the DART this afternoon, will I get that return part refunded onto my card?

    You can register your card on leapcard.ie and it will show you exact details.

    The card charges you maximum fare (4.30) when you tag-on and the credits you back when you tag off (2.90 in this case). So you were charged a total of 1.40, which is correct as per http://www.irishrail.ie/your_ticket/fares_enquiries.asp

    There's no return journey, each is a discounted leap card single so it matters not whether you return or not. As a comparison, fare would be 1.70 cash each way or 2.90 cash return.


  • #283
    robd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    SilverLiningOK wrote: »
    Just saw this thread, after posting elsewhere -

    Local Spar has the Leap signs up on door but no cards yet. This roll out seems flawed. Who is supposed to be doing it ? They should have got someone in from the euro changeover. We even got the coins in advance to get used to them and notes were available from day one.

    Not a good start. It is not going to encourage people to use them if they can't get them. I am on the northside, is the rest of the city any better ?

    This is coming up so much that I think it needs a new thread. I already posted a list of friendly leapcard agents a few pages back but it got lost in the replies.

    So here it is:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75978666


  • #284
    SilverLiningOK
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭SilverLiningOK


    robd wrote: »
    This is coming up so much that I think it needs a new thread. I already posted a list of friendly leapcard agents a few pages back but it got lost in the replies.

    So here it is:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75978666

    Good idea. Thanks.


  • #285
    BenShermin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭BenShermin


    Well I was double charged today, got an annulment but the whole transaction delayed the bus by about a minute. Driver apologised and said that it was the first leap card fare he processed. Felt sorry for the driver tbh, this whole second ticket idea is nonsense, an Irish solution to a problem that never really exsisted in the first place:rolleyes:!


    I don't feel a bit confident using the card as a result of today to be honest, what if the next driver I meet can't process the annulment? There's no comeback as the terms and conditions state clearly that the only way to get an annulment is at the time of the transaction.


  • #286
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    BenShermin wrote: »
    Well I was double charged today, got an annulment but the whole transaction delayed the bus by about a minute. Driver apologised and said that it was the first leap card fare he processed. Felt sorry for the driver tbh, this whole second ticket idea is nonsense, an Irish solution to a problem that never really exsisted in the first place:rolleyes:!

    I think it's a very handy idea but, since it complicates things, I would have preferred if they rolled it out later on.


  • #287
    robd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    markpb wrote: »
    I think it's a very handy idea but, since it complicates things, I would have preferred if they rolled it out later on.

    It's a handy idea in small amount of circumstances.

    In reality it's one of those law of unintended consequences type scenarios.

    It's the cause of most of the errors reported on Dublin Bus. It should be removed as a feature immediately inline with the other 2 operators policies of one card one traveller.


  • #288
    Flukey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭Flukey


    Geuze wrote: »
    http://www.ov-chipkaart.nl/

    The Dutch smart-card system seems to involve readers when exiting the bus.

    So it seems you tag-on and tag-off on the bus.

    The fare is a fixed 79c per trip + a distance fee depending per km where you live.

    Key point: the 79c is charged once, so if you switch to a different bus / tram during the same trip you are not charged the 79c again.

    The Leap system doesn't allow that yet, but it will eventually (I think).

    If the Dutch can do it then why can't Dublin Bus? I know, silly question.:rolleyes: It would be good to have a tag on/off system on the buses. It would be nice to have the ability to switch buses too. That is one of the great things about the unlimited tickets, being able to hop off a bus if you see a better one coming behind. The current Leap system can't cater for that. So we have a long way to go.


  • #289
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    Flukey wrote: »
    If the Dutch can do it then why can't Dublin Bus?

    City buses in Amsterdam have at least two doors.


  • #290
    robd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    markpb wrote: »
    City buses in Amsterdam have at least two doors.

    So did Dublin Bus buses when they started implementing Integrated Ticketing around 2000.

    Be honest. The removal of the 2nd door and the pay at driver version of integrated ticketing is all related to Dublin Bus managements paranoia about fare evasion.

    This was there solution rather than more diligent ticket inspecting. Haven't seen one of those guys in donkeys years.


  • #291
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    robd wrote: »
    So did Dublin Bus buses when they started implementing Integrated Ticketing around 2000.

    Be honest. The removal of the 2nd door and the pay at driver version of integrated ticketing is all related to Dublin Bus managements paranoia about fare evasion.

    This was there solution rather than more diligent ticket inspecting. Haven't seen one of those guys in donkeys years.

    I agree totally with you on all those points - I was just explaining why tag on/tag off wouldn't work well in Dublin right now.


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  • #292
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    robd wrote: »
    So did Dublin Bus buses when they started implementing Integrated Ticketing around 2000.

    Be honest. The removal of the 2nd door and the pay at driver version of integrated ticketing is all related to Dublin Bus managements paranoia about fare evasion.

    This was there solution rather than more diligent ticket inspecting. Haven't seen one of those guys in donkeys years.

    It was actually more to do with the removal of seating caused by the inclusion of the wheelchair space on the new low floor buses at the time (ref several posts from Alek Smart here) - retaining the second door would mean losing even more seats.


  • #293
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,104 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    but their next batch of buses may have 2 doors again (as reported on another thread here) - seems they can't make up their mind on this.


  • #294
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    loyatemu wrote: »
    but their next batch of buses may have 2 doors again (as reported on another thread here) - seems they can't make up their mind on this.

    Yeah they can. DB think they're operating a suburban bus service where one door is fine. NTA know that they should be operating a city bus service where at least two doors are required so NTA *told* DB what type of bus to order.


  • #295
    SandyfordGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 450 ✭✭SandyfordGuy


    By the way, just in case you were not aware, LEAP also has the functionality to return travel credit if you decide not to proceed with your journey.

    I yesterday walked through the gates at a DART station then realised I had to go back, tagged off at the same station and it refunded me the 4.30 default fare.

    The entry on Leapcard.ie reads:
    Travel Credit Reversed


  • #296
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,206 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    SandyfordGuy wrote: »
    By the way, just in case you were not aware, LEAP also has the functionality to return travel credit if you decide not to proceed with your journey.

    I yesterday walked through the gates at a DART station then realised I had to go back, tagged off at the same station and it refunded me the 4.30 default fare.

    The entry on Leapcard.ie reads:
    Travel Credit Reversed

    Irish Rail has always supported the ability to abandon a journey, Luas does not


  • #297
    SandyfordGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 450 ✭✭SandyfordGuy


    Pretty sensible really - there are obvious fare evasion issues with allowing it on LUAS.


  • #298
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    SandyfordGuy wrote: »
    Pretty sensible really - there are obvious fare evasion issues with allowing it on LUAS.

    Not really.

    Luas should allow the full amount to be returned if you tag off at the same stop within say 2-4mins. There is no stops you can get to tag on, go to another stop, do anything worth you're while (say buy something in a shop), and then return to the first stop within that time frame and tag off.

    The idea that somebody tagging on and then off at the same stop is going to do so for fare evasion is nonsence -- they have gained nothing more than if they had never tagged on. There's no noticeable difference.


  • #299
    SandyfordGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 450 ✭✭SandyfordGuy


    But where do you set the limit? if you have 2-4 minutes you will have people moaning that they waited 10 minutes and they cannot get a refund during a long gap of trams because of service disruption. Also how many people are going to tag on and off within that time? People who tag on tag off at the same station will do so because of service disruption etc, and generally they won't do that within 5 minutes, they'll wait around 10-15 in most cases.

    15 minutes would be enough to allow fare evasion to be committed when you think of how frequent the lines are. Also you would then get the question of many people assuming that they will always get the credit back after they tag off at the same station, and wondering why they get it some time and not others, thus causing complaints as nobody quite understands the system because lets face it, the average user is not going to read this board.

    Same with the whole idea of paying for a companion on Dublin Bus, all doing it would do is cause confusion. It needs to be kept as simple as possible.
    The idea that somebody tagging on and then off at the same stop is going to do so for fare evasion is nonsence -- they have gained nothing more than if they had never tagged on. There's no noticeable difference.
    Two words - Return Journey·


  • #300
    SilverLiningOK
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭SilverLiningOK


    hmmm wrote: »
    It's not good UI to expect the LEAP card user to realise that after they buy credit online they have to activate it. You can roll your eyes up to heaven and ask "well do you think that every bus has an Internet connection", to which the majority of the public will probably say "I guess".

    There's an education deficit there that should be addressed or my bus will be stuck for hours while the driver explains to people who "bought credit online last night" that there is nothing on their card.

    I also hadn't realised credit can take 48 hours to be applied. For goodness sake why?

    This time lag of upto 48 hours is so archaic. What sort of payment system have they set up ? This will piss off lots of people, not least the bus drivers who will be told that "I bought some credit last night". Unfortunately Irish people usually can't operate at this level of preparedness. One has to know upto 48 hours in advance that one needs credit, otherwise one has to go to a shop to buy credit.

    Surely there should be some advantage of buying something online. Being quicker to do a cash transaction in a shop is nuts. When will you even know when the credit is available for loading ? If people had to do this with mobile phone credit they would be driven demented.


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  • #301
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    SandyfordGuy wrote: »
    But where do you set the limit? if you have 2-4 minutes you will have people moaning that they waited 10 minutes and they cannot get a refund during a long gap of trams because of service disruption. Also how many people are going to tag on and off within that time? People who tag on tag off at the same station will do so because of service disruption etc, and generally they won't do that within 5 minutes, they'll wait around 10-15 in most cases.

    15 minutes would be enough to allow fare evasion to be committed when you think of how frequent the lines are. Also you would then get the question of many people assuming that they will always get the credit back after they tag off at the same station, and wondering why they get it some time and not others, thus causing complaints as nobody quite understands the system because lets face it, the average user is not going to read this board.

    Same with the whole idea of paying for a companion on Dublin Bus, all doing it would do is cause confusion. It needs to be kept as simple as possible.


    Two words - Return Journey·

    Return journey does not come into it when there's such a time limit.

    What's exact is the harm in allowing 5mins?

    I'm not thinking of service disruptions but anybody who tags on at the time of a service disruption is entitled to a refund anyway.

    It's not in any case the same as the problem from paying for a companion on Dublin Bus: [1] on Luas there is already a time frame of about 20-30 seconds before you can tag off after just tagging on, so tagging off is a very deliberate act; [2] the problem on Dublin Bus is purely down to a lack of driver training / poor driver training.


This discussion has been closed.
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