What is wrong with Ireland?

Tim Robbins wrote:

Right folks, I am still shocked. We have looked very poor int he first two games. We should have been beaten by the Georgian's which contained some of their second string.
We also should have beaten by Italy and we were beaten by the Scots.

Now, I thought we were over rated going into this tournement but I didn't think we were this bad. So what's wrong?

Good players don't just become ad overnight.

I think the mood in the squad is awful.
I personally think the intensity of being in a full time camp for so long is getting to a few of them. We all need a bit of space from each other.

I also think the fact that 8 players are in full time camp and know they haven't a chance of getting a game would really p*ss them off and that mood is bound to effect the camp.

No one likes not being picked but knowing you haven't chance and you are just holding tackling bags for months well wouldn't you just want to go home.

I think the player management has been all wrong.

The provinces play better because they get way more time off, to chill out with their families. None of the Munster lads who play off passion seem to have any passion. Now, despite what some Munster fans think, I think all of Munster lads respect the Green jersey just as much as the Red. The only difference is the set-up in the camp is completely different.

This is just my theory so feel free to disagree.

I don't realy buy into the rumours of trouble in the camp, it seems to another instance of the decline of much Irish journalism to the level of the worst british tabloids over the last few years. While the players would naturally be upset to not be getting any game time, I cannot believe that any of them would be causing unrest in the camp.

Unfortunately I believe that the the problem is with the whole mentality of the squad at present. Bearing in mind that most of them have been building their careers around this world cup and will not be around for the next one. It looks to me like they are literally imploding under the weight of expectation (that they have placed on themselves as much as the fans or the media), and I am not sure it can be fixed in six days.

It would be a sad sad way for some of their world cup careers to end in this way if this happens. Some of the bile directed at the squad is totally out of proportion, there is noone out in France not giving 100% effort and some of the bile that has been directed towards the squad from so called fans is disgusting IMHO.

While Eddie O'Sullivan has recieved for much justifiable criticism over issues such as not rotating/introducing new players, being too conservative in selection, not using the bench effectively etc. The finger cannot be pointed solely at the coach when what is supposed to be one of the best backlines in the world cannot finish off countless multiple player overlaps over the last two games, this cannot be layed down at the door of poor preparation.

Given the way the team has been prepared physically over the last few years I would also also be very surprised if the the coaching staff have got the conditioning program so wrong in the run in to the world cup as to leave the squad over trained or lacking in fitness. Even if it was the first time they had picked up a rugby ball in three months, players of that calabre should be able to finish off a four on two overlap 9 out of 10 times. This to me highlights the panic that seems to be running though the squad at the moment.

While I am sure that the squad were obviously concerned about the poor form in the lead up to the world cup, I believe that what is probably the key turning point of the group was when Argentina beat France in the opening game. While in the aftermath the Irish squad did their best to not sound too surprised I am certain that they did not consider this to be a realistic scenario going into the competition.

Once this happened the safety net of a do or die game against Argentina in the event of losing to France in Paris was essentially removed from the list of possibilities. Given that they immediately started talking not about how much pressure that the French would be under when we played them but instead about points difference and bonus points it did make me wonder at the time if they ever really believed that they could beat the French in Paris for all their positive talk in the run up. Perhaps the last gasp win at croke park did irreversiable damage to this group of players after all. In the past two games they have been trying to rack up points ala the Italy game in the six nations, the difference being there were 0 expectations then compared to now.

As for what they can do between here and now, all I can think of is getting the squad getting the bus from Bordeaux to Paris instead of flying and playing Vincent Clercs try on repeat fot the entire ten hours or so. I don't hold out much hope to be honest, but I guess we have to go to Paris and give it one hell of a final lash as the underdogs and see what happens. The winner will be the side handles the pressure best, and the prior evidence suggest that will be us unfortunately.

forbesii wrote:

They seem to be overtrained physically and mentally. Programmed to do one thing. They have a hard on for the gym but that won't make them stronger at scrum time etc. Only actual scrummaging will do that. Too much clean and jerks and not enough hitting the machine. The forwards are soft. Their physiques were far superior to the Georgians but technically their skills in general were much the poorer. This is bullsh1t, start playing some rugby and get out of that useless godamn chryotherapy chamber in Poland. O'Driscoll believes his own hype. Horgan believes his own hype. D'Arcy believes his own hype. These players are nothing until they start proving themselves again. Their attitude and seemingly celebrity lifestyle encapsulates everything I don't like about this team and the vibe stinks. Too many sell-outs to Tesco, Samsung, Visa, goddamn shower companies! They have taken their eye off the ball!

That is grossly unfair on those players who have been brilliant for Ireland in the recent past. Sure you never see the All Black doing any such thing. :rolleyes:

I feel desperatley sorry for the team as it all seems to be unravelling at the worst possible time, they have given us some fantastic memories in the recent years and will not deserve to be remembered they way they inevitably will be should we make an early pool stage exit.

The team could do with a few less so called fans like yourself as well TBH.

heyjude wrote:

God help whoever had to pick Ireland's man of the match from this sorry display, I didn't think we could get worse than the Namibia game, now I know better.

IF we had real squad depth, then almost every starter tonight would be fighting for his place.

I know what people are saying, that playing Reddan for Stringer, Quinlan for O'Callaghan or playing Murphy or Trimble instead of Horgan, Hickie or Dempsey(in the case of Murphy), would be too much of a gamble, but frankly the way we are playing, not making any changes would be an even bigger risk. Tonights' game was supposed to be the game in which they ironed out all the problems that emerged in the first game, but instead it was even worse and that against the minnows, now we have to face the big boys and playing the same hand again seems unthinkable.

So bring in Best for Easterby, Reddan for Stringer, Flannery for R. Best, Quinlan for O'Callaghan, Trimble for Hickie(or O'Driscoll if Trimble is a sub) and Murphy for Dempsey or D'Arcy. Also if things start going wrong, Eddie has to have the guts to pull O'Gara and O'Driscoll, nobody should be left on just because they feel they are a big star. This is the world cup and for Ireland, the knockout stage has started early, as by missing the bonus point tonight, we're probably going to have to beat France and Argentina to get out of the group, no sense in just playing out time, sometimes you have to gamble to win and you don't want to go out of the world cup wondering what if ?

Having said all that, Eddie is very cautious, if Rory Best is injured Flannery seems a certain replacement, but I think all the other names will survive and Eddie will just try to keep the score down against France. :mad:

I had stopped taking you seriously after you suggested that Dempsey be dropped (about the only player who has shown decent form) and also a possible center pairing of Murphy and Trimple. Then I read "Eddie will just try to keep the score down against France" :rolleyes:.