(US) Boy, 13, to be tried as an adult after killing his 2-year-old brother

metaoblivia · 18-09-2012 6:33pm

I'm from the state of Florida and happen to work in an attorney's office, and one of our attorney's formerly worked as a state prosecutor, so I asked him about this situation.

Firstly, if this child is convicted as an adult, he will likely be sent to a juvenile facility until the age of 18 when he will be transferred to an adult prison. In the event that a juvenile facility doesn't 'fit' for whatever reason, he can be sent to an adult prison, but would be segregated from the adult population until the age of 18. This is a very unlikely scenario given his age, but it's happened with older minors (16, 17) in some rare circumstances.

Trying him as a minor would mean that he would be released at 18 with a sealed record (parts of which could follow him, legally, up to the age of 24). And there's no trying him again after that. So the reasoning for trying him as an adult is to prevent him from being released at 18 (and you can't get away with doing this at a much younger age than 12; in fact, Florida had handed down a life sentence to a 12 year old before and it got over turned on appeal because of the defendant's age).

The other issue is the issue of criminal intent. The article says the boy smashed his brother's head against shelf, which eventually led to his death, but it doesn't say how many times, etc. Was this a violent, repeated attack or is this just a kid who doesn't understand boundaries? The article also said the older boy had broken the younger boy's leg a few weeks earlier while wrestling. That suggests that it might be the latter (not understanding boundaries).

Also, the child eventually died because of lack of medical care (it was reported that medical examiners said the child could have survived had he been taken to the hospital), and the onus there falls on the mother who spent 4 hours on the internet while the toddler lay dying. As an adult and as the child's mother, she does have a legal responsibility to get that child medical aid. So a good deal of culpability when it comes to the child's death rests with her.

In short, my attorney did think that the kid should be tried as an adult because he believes the prison system - including juvie - is not based around rehabilitation, and this kid would need tons of rehabilitation and intervention to be a contributing member of society. In his opinion, this kid is lost; he's just going to come out of juvie or prison with the skill set of a criminal. But he also thinks the prosecution has probably overshot on the charges and won't be successful in getting the convictions they're pursuing because of the child's age, the issue of criminal intent, the mother's inability to get her children the support they need, and the years of abuse the boy has had to endure.

And me personally - I don't know. I think 13 is very young to be tried as an adult, and I would like to know more details about what happened between him and his brother. I think a lot of his sexual misconduct can be explained as him being a victim of sexual abuse himself and acting out as a result of that. My major concern is, I don't see him getting the help he needs in either situation - being tried as a minor or as an adult. I feel like no matter what he's being set up for a life in and out of prison, and there are no good solutions at this point.

aaronjumper · 18-09-2012 6:40pm

Jesus Christ. Just when you think the world cannot get any worse.

3ndahalfof6 · 18-09-2012 6:43pm

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

He got punched in the head. He knows it hurts. So why would he think it's a good idea to smash someone's head off a solid object?

It is probably his response to being annoyed, (crying child), maybe when he received his punch to the head he was told, shut up or else, and then received else, so he applied the same theory,

no one knows the whys, we can only guess, but one thing for sure is he never got a great start (or his mother), very very sad situation.

haulagebasher · 18-09-2012 6:44pm

The whole saga is warped in the extreme.

Another thing, now I'm not a racist but does anyone else find it odd that these type of cases involving abuse, neglect, drugs, murder etc have a slightly greater tendency to occur with members of the Hispanic community.

666irishguy · 18-09-2012 6:49pm

haulagebasher wrote: »

The whole saga is warped in the extreme.

Another thing, now I'm not a racist but does anyone else find it odd that these type of cases involving abuse, neglect, drugs, murder etc have a slightly greater tendency to occur with members of the Hispanic community.

Generally they are amongst the poorest in a lot of areas, and where there's poverty and no hope there's usually ****e loads of drugs and alcohol. I'd say exposure to adults abusing substances and being off their head on booze 24/7 has a lot to do with the upbringing of everybody this case.

3ndahalfof6 · 18-09-2012 6:52pm

haulagebasher wrote: »

The whole saga is warped in the extreme.

Another thing, now I'm not a racist but does anyone else find it odd that these type of cases involving abuse, neglect, drugs, murder etc have a slightly greater tendency to occur with members of the Hispanic community.

I am guessing you have some links and facts to your assumption, or is it just from watching movies.

up for anything · 18-09-2012 6:54pm

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

He got punched in the head. He knows it hurts. So why would he think it's a good idea to smash someone's head off a solid object?

I doubt he actually thought that it was a good idea and I'm sure like probably many chronically, terribly, physically abused children he has gone beyond the idea of feeling compassion and hurt. It is just a fact of life to him - as he told a counsellor "you've got to suck up feelings and get over it". It was probably an action born out of anger, frustration and a complete lack of empathy.

Considering the quote below is just an outline of the bare bones of his existence it can be no wonder that it happened.

Fernandez was born in Miami, Florida in 1999 to Biannela Susana, who was just 12. The boy's 25-year-old father received 10 years' probation for sexually assaulting her.

Two years later, both mother and son went to foster care after authorities found the toddler filthy, naked and walking in the street at 4am near the motel where his grandmother, who was taking care of him, was found surrounded by cocaine.

In 2007, when Fernandez was eight, the Department of Children and Families investigated a report that he was sexually molested by an older cousin.

Officials noted there were other troubling incidents: he killed a kitten; he simulated sex with classmates; he masturbated at school.

The boy learned to squelch his feelings, once telling a counselor: 'You got to suck up feelings and get over it.'

darced · 18-09-2012 7:10pm

This post has been deleted.

Millicent · 18-09-2012 7:16pm

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Why?

Stuff like this happens all over the world, sadly.

timewilltell · 18-09-2012 7:19pm

Where was social services? Why wasn't this childtaken from the mother following the time he was found roaming the streets as a 2 year old?

Ugh.:mad:

darced · 18-09-2012 7:22pm

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FouxDaFaFa · 18-09-2012 7:41pm

They're also charging the mother with aggravated manslaughter.

Madam_X · 18-09-2012 7:44pm

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd suggest whichever social-worker that made the final call on deeming that to be a suitable environment to leave a 12 year old girl who'd suffered from sexual abuse attempt to raise a child should be joining him in the dock.

Nah I'd choose the 25-year-old who was having sex with a 12-year-old - ten years' probation, what a joke.
And the neglectful grandmother.
Social work is a difficult one. I'd need to know more about the ins and outs of their job before scapegoating. They are answerable to bureaucrats behind a desk, with whom I'd have more of a problem.

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not only in America so.

This is one of those cases where it's highly unlikely it would have happened if the boy had a normal upbringing, and while he is responsible and should face consequences, the influence his horrendous life had on his crime should not be discounted. Even the thickest "anti bleeding heart" whatever tard will be able to see this.

Muir · 18-09-2012 8:04pm

I think a psychiatric hospital would be a better place for him than prison. Locking him up for however many years is pointless. I really, really hope they try to give him the help that he needs. Sad to see that the children were left in that environment even though it wasn't a suitable place for them.

haulagebasher · 18-09-2012 8:10pm

They wont really tbh. The justice system in the USA is punitive rather than rehabilitative.

WhatNowForUs? · 18-09-2012 8:20pm

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.

He is being subjected for special treatment. He is being tried as an adult.

Sorry already posted more or less word for word by another poster.

languagenerd · 18-09-2012 8:30pm

The kid never stood a chance - those bullet-points at the start of the article read like several different articles, not like they're all part of the same story. Incredibly sad story.

I don't know if anything can ever be done to help this kid to be a normal member of society. He needs the most intensive psychological help that exists...

3ndahalfof6 · 18-09-2012 8:35pm

languagenerd wrote: »

The kid never stood a chance - those bullet-points at the start of the article read like several different articles, not like they're all part of the same story. Incredibly sad story.

I don't know if anything can ever be done to help this kid to be a normal member of society. He needs the most intensive psychological help that exists...

What is normal, so many humans have tipped over the edge, but up to there imminent tip over they were normal,(very normal).

AudreyHepburn · 18-09-2012 9:02pm

As tragic and horrific as that young lad's life has been it does not justify killing one child and abusing another.

He's young yes...but surely not so young that he doesn't know smashing some-one's head against a shelf is wrong?

It worries me that people would try excuse what he did.

Do we then excuses what James Bolger's killers did? Do we excuses child molesters because they may have been abused as children? Do we excuse parents killing their children because they were depressed?

Madam_X · 18-09-2012 9:14pm

I don't see anyone excusing what he did. Acknowledging the highly likely reasons for his crime is not the same as excusing it. What he did was horrific and he deserves to face justice for it, but he is far from an adult, even if he is old enough to know right from wrong. He was brought up in an environment where abuse and being destroyed on drugs and him being neglected was the norm though, so his concept of right and wrong is bound to be somewhat distorted.

Sleepy · 18-09-2012 9:16pm

Oh I certainly wouldn't excuse him. I think trying him as an adult is excessive though and would hold the system that allowed him to slip through so many cracks as equally culpable.

Madam_X wrote:

Nah I'd choose the 25-year-old who was having sex with a 12-year-old - ten years' probation, what a joke.
And the neglectful grandmother.
Social work is a difficult one. I'd need to know more about the ins and outs of their job before scapegoating. They are answerable to bureaucrats behind a desk, with whom I'd have more of a problem.

Hence why I said "final call". Such poor social care is equally damnable whether it was a junior social worker that didn't refer the case, a senior case officer refusing the request of that junior social worker to place both children in state care, a bureaucrat who defined conditions which excluded such proper care or the government officials (elected or otherwise) who mismanaged a budget so badly that the funding wasn't there to care for them.

Since the case appears to be *so* extreme, I'm guessing there were elements of all of the above tbh.

18-09-2012 9:28pm

allibastor wrote: »

all i can say is holy ****ing ****. how the hell did that family go under the radar of the social services there. should they not have some form of apportionment for blame in letting this kind of stuff happen.

Social services are just as bad here. Someone I know worked as a home-school liaison for a disadvantaged school, so she spent a lot of time visiting people's houses or, as the case was quite a lot, halting sites. There's a lot of people that shouldn't have kids.

wonderfullife · 19-09-2012 4:30am

metaoblivia wrote: »

And me personally - I don't know. I think 13 is very young to be tried as an adult, and I would like to know more details about what happened between him and his brother. I think a lot of his sexual misconduct can be explained as him being a victim of sexual abuse himself and acting out as a result of that. My major concern is, I don't see him getting the help he needs in either situation - being tried as a minor or as an adult. I feel like no matter what he's being set up for a life in and out of prison, and there are no good solutions at this point.

This is where the whole nonsense becomes more apparent. He's either a minor or he isn't. 13 is a child and should be tried as such. The specifics of what happened shouldn't come into it or else we end up with a 1-rule for some, 1-rule for others situation.

It should always be simple - pick an age and underneath it people are tried as children/juveniles/minors. Over it and tried as adults. It always amazes me, primarily in the USA, the amount of states which try juveniles of 12/13/14 as adults yet won't let people drink/smoke/vote until 18/21.

Dangerous Man · 19-09-2012 6:16am

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

As tragic and horrific as that young lad's life has been it does not justify killing one child and abusing another.

He's young yes...but surely not so young that he doesn't know smashing some-one's head against a shelf is wrong?

It worries me that people would try excuse what he did.

Do we then excuses what James Bolger's killers did? Do we excuses child molesters because they may have been abused as children? Do we excuse parents killing their children because they were depressed?

No one is saying his actions should be excused. Not one single person in this thread said that. Read back over every post - every word - and you will see that not one person said that.

Not one.

Nobody said that.

So you're setting up a straw-man. You're creating an argument to suit your own point of view.

Be honest.

up for anything · 19-09-2012 7:54am

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

He is being given a chance; he's getting the chance to live his life. He murdered someone. It's not manslaughter. It's not an accident. He has a lot more of a chance compared to the brother of his.

You call that being given a chance? You did read what the poster from Florida repeated from the attorney in her office that she asked?

Whether he gets tried as an adult or a juvenile, whether he gets special juvenile treatment or locked up on his own in an adult prison till they figure he's old enough and strong enough to fend for himself with the rest of the inmates, that he is destined for a life pretty much in prison and all that brings with it.

He hasn't given any reason yet for what he did and maybe his lack of emotion comes from lessons well learned eg emotion = weakness. It could be that he thought he was doing his brother a favour. He seemed to have settled down according to the little information given in the article. That they were living in relatively decent conditions and he was getting straight 'A's (I hate that as a definition of how 'good' a child is.) What might have triggered his actions? It could have been many things such as a new boyfriend for the mother, a next door neighbour. Maybe he thought he was saving the toddler from something worse than death. After all in his short life I'd say without being overly dramatic that he's died a 1,000 deaths himself. That he did it and then when he realised it hadn't worked he couldn't bring himself to finish the job.

I doubt we'll ever find out the real reasons behind his actions; whether it was sheer cruelty, compassion, or temper. All I can see is that one child is dead, another would probably be better off dead and the mother is a disaster but what did she have in her life, much the same thing as her son.

I wouldn't ever want to see that boy free but isn't that a sad thing to have to say?

OldNotWIse · 19-09-2012 9:47am

up for anything wrote: »

You call that being given a chance? You did read what the poster from Florida repeated from the attorney in her office that she asked?

Whether he gets tried as an adult or a juvenile, whether he gets special juvenile treatment or locked up on his own in an adult prison till they figure he's old enough and strong enough to fend for himself with the rest of the inmates, that he is destined for a life pretty much in prison and all that brings with it.

He hasn't given any reason yet for what he did and maybe his lack of emotion comes from lessons well learned eg emotion = weakness. It could be that he thought he was doing his brother a favour. He seemed to have settled down according to the little information given in the article. That they were living in relatively decent conditions and he was getting straight 'A's (I hate that as a definition of how 'good' a child is.) What might have triggered his actions? It could have been many things such as a new boyfriend for the mother, a next door neighbour. Maybe he thought he was saving the toddler from something worse than death. After all in his short life I'd say without being overly dramatic that he's died a 1,000 deaths himself. That he did it and then when he realised it hadn't worked he couldn't bring himself to finish the job.

I doubt we'll ever find out the real reasons behind his actions; whether it was sheer cruelty, compassion, or temper. All I can see is that one child is dead, another would probably be better off dead and the mother is a disaster but what did she have in her life, much the same thing as her son.

I wouldn't ever want to see that boy free but isn't that a sad thing to have to say?

geeky · 19-09-2012 10:28am

haulagebasher wrote: »

Another thing, now I'm not a racist but ....

:rolleyes:

Dravokivich · 19-09-2012 10:34am

I agree with trying him as an adult. Murder isn't a minor offence and I believe it should be handled seriously. His background is tragic, but no less than that of his brother.

And the mother... bloody hell what was she at? How can someone be so negligent.

19-09-2012 10:38am

Its shocking to see this but then you think about Jamie Bulgers killers they were younger yet people still want to see them in prison.

up for anything · 19-09-2012 10:44am

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're confused about? Perhaps my meandering thoughts.

Deleted User wrote: »

Its shocking to see this but then you think about Jamie Bulgers killers they were younger yet people still want to see them in prison.

Yes, but knowing as much as what we do about their actions on that day with Jamie Bulger there is a huge difference between what they did and what this boy has done (as much as we know of it), plus they came from backgrounds that were a zillion times better.

I don't think there are many who would want this boy to go free but there must be better options for him than an adult prison where he would either be locked away or left to survive amongst the adult prison population.

Lollipops23 · 19-09-2012 10:45am

The kid absolutely needs to be removed from society, certainly for the long-term foreseeable. This isn't as a punishment (although it will probably still serve as one) but because he has proved he is a danger. He needs HUGE amounts of therapy and rehab to get him to even THINK like a normal person, at which point he may be able to fully understand what he has done.

The fact is, he is a child. There's a reason we don't let kids live alone, vote, drive or use alcohol. Because they CAN'T be responsible or use full judgement. He is a product of his upbringing, as was his mother and probably her mother before her. That's not to say he should be let off, just that he cannot be held 100% accountable the way an adult would be.

Dravokivich · 19-09-2012 10:46am

up for anything wrote: »

I don't think there are many who would want this boy to go free but there must be better options for him than an adult prison where he would either be locked away or left to survive amongst the adult prison population.

As mentioned earlier, being tried and sentenced as an adult doesn't mean he'll be contained with adults. He'll be in juve until 18 then transferred, or segregated in an adult prison until 18 if a juve facility is not sufficient. That is, if he is found guilty.

Lollipops23 · 19-09-2012 11:05am

Dravokivich wrote: »

As mentioned earlier, being tried and sentenced as an adult doesn't mean he'll be contained with adults. He'll be in juve until 18 then transferred, or segregated in an adult prison until 18 if a juve facility is not sufficient. That is, if he is found guilty.

It's still morally wrong and unjust to try him as an adult. He's a minor.

Dravokivich · 19-09-2012 11:16am

Lollipops23 wrote: »

It's still morally wrong and unjust to try him as an adult. He's a minor.

He didn't commit a childish crime. This isn't something like vandalism or shoplifting. His actions involved GBH and resulted in death. The reason he is being tried as an adult is because of the sentencing that is then available.

That also doesn't mean his background isn't going to be taken into consideration when verdict is being provided by the jury or at the time of sentencing either.

Lollipops23 · 19-09-2012 11:27am

Dravokivich wrote: »

He didn't commit a childish crime. This isn't something like vandalism or shoplifting. His actions involved GBH and resulted in death. The reason he is being tried as an adult is because of the sentencing that is then available.

That also doesn't mean his background isn't going to be taken into consideration when verdict is being provided by the jury or at the time of sentencing either.

So if I spray graffiti on a wall or nick something from tesco, will I be tried as a minor due to the petty nature of the crimes? No, I'm an adult capable of understanding the full consequences of my actions.

Dravokivich · 19-09-2012 11:37am

Lollipops23 wrote: »

So if I spray graffiti on a wall or nick something from tesco, will I be tried as a minor due to the petty nature of the crimes? No, I'm an adult capable of understanding the full consequences of my actions.

You are twisting my words around, without actually taking what I meant into consideration. I obviously intended that they weren't as serious murder.

OldNotWIse · 19-09-2012 11:55am

up for anything wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're confused about? Perhaps my meandering thoughts.

Yes, but knowing as much as what we do about their actions on that day with Jamie Bulger there is a huge difference between what they did and what this boy has done (as much as we know of it), plus they came from backgrounds that were a zillion times better.

I don't think there are many who would want this boy to go free but there must be better options for him than an adult prison where he would either be locked away or left to survive amongst the adult prison population.

It was the suggestion that he may have killed his baby brother out of "compassion"

up for anything · 19-09-2012 12:11pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It was the suggestion that he may have killed his baby brother out of "compassion"

It was just a thought! Maybe it struck him that his brother would be better off out of it all together. Maybe something happened to his brother and again he thought he'd be better off dead. Maybe he wished that someone had done it to him when he was younger and so he was giving his brother the gift of death. Who knows what goes on in such a damaged psyche. Anyhow, it's all supposition, but like everything else in the world compassion must be relative.

poisonated · 19-09-2012 12:23pm

It's a horrible situation for all involved. He is certainly a product of his enviornment. I hate even using this word but I do think that he should be LOCKED up. Not in a maximum security prison or anything but in a place where he could feel comfortable and yet still not pose a risk to society at large.

OldNotWIse · 19-09-2012 12:23pm

up for anything wrote: »

It was just a thought! Maybe it struck him that his brother would be better off out of it all together. Maybe something happened to his brother and again he thought he'd be better off dead. Maybe he wished that someone had done it to him when he was younger and so he was giving his brother the gift of death. Who knows what goes on in such a damaged psyche. Anyhow, it's all supposition, but like everything else in the world compassion must be relative.

Relative to what?

Sorry didn't realise it was an idea, I thought maybe it was a typo or something. I'm no psych expert but I would question the cognitive ability of a 12 year old to think, "such and such would be better off dead" - then again as you said who knows what was going on in his head. If I had to nail my colours, I'd say children learn what they live. For him, violence and abuse was normal and accepted. His brother p1ssed him off and he let him have it.

yermandan · 19-09-2012 12:40pm

Lollipops23 wrote: »

The kid absolutely needs to be removed from society, certainly for the long-term foreseeable. This isn't as a punishment (although it will probably still serve as one) but because he has proved he is a danger. He needs HUGE amounts of therapy and rehab to get him to even THINK like a normal person, at which point he may be able to fully understand what he has done.

The fact is, he is a child. There's a reason we don't let kids live alone, vote, drive or use alcohol. Because they CAN'T be responsible or use full judgement. He is a product of his upbringing, as was his mother and probably her mother before her. That's not to say he should be let off, just that he cannot be held 100% accountable the way an adult would be.

THIS 1,000,000%

Lollipops23 · 19-09-2012 12:46pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

You are twisting my words around, without actually taking what I meant into consideration. I obviously intended that they weren't as serious murder.

And I'm just highlighting that it's not the type of crime that determines if someone should be tried as a minor or adult, but the defendant him/herself.

No matter how horrific (and I do believe the crime was heinous) nothing changes the fact that he's a kid.

StephenHendry · 19-09-2012 1:02pm

very sad story, i dont' think he should be tried as an adult despite the awful crime committed here. it all depends on the sort of treatment he receives (hopefully) as a result of his sentence. when you look at jamies bolgers killers, one or both of them afaik have had other convictions since they were released. it would lead you to believe their sentence didnt help them become better people. they were tried as children back then.

up for anything · 19-09-2012 1:22pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Relative to what?

Sorry didn't realise it was an idea, I thought maybe it was a typo or something. I'm no psych expert but I would question the cognitive ability of a 12 year old to think, "such and such would be better off dead" - then again as you said who knows what was going on in his head. If I had to nail my colours, I'd say children learn what they live. For him, violence and abuse was normal and accepted. His brother p1ssed him off and he let him have it.

No, not a typo.

Relative as in relative to what people experience. One person's compassion would be another person's cruelty. I know when I was younger and it was the done thing to submerge a litter or newly born kittens or pups in a bucket of water I found it appalling and yet the people who actually did it would assert that they were being kind.

Would you really not see a 12 year old being able to think or feel that? I don't think you give 12 year olds much credit then.

the_monkey · 19-09-2012 2:21pm

they should all be sterilised at birth ...

wonderfullife · 19-09-2012 2:28pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

I agree with trying him as an adult. Murder isn't a minor offence and I believe it should be handled seriously. His background is tragic, but no less than that of his brother.

And the mother... bloody hell what was she at? How can someone be so negligent.

Dravokivich wrote: »

As mentioned earlier, being tried and sentenced as an adult doesn't mean he'll be contained with adults. He'll be in juve until 18 then transferred, or segregated in an adult prison until 18 if a juve facility is not sufficient. That is, if he is found guilty.

By your logic if a 6 year old murders someone, he should be tried as an adult. As murder is not a minor offence and should be handled seriously. Oh yeah the 6 year old would have a cushy 12 years in Juvie before a lifetime of adult incarcertation but murder is serious!?

It can't ever be justified that certain crimes are tried as adult and others as Juvenile for people of the same age. He's either a child in the eyes of the law or he isn't.

OldNotWIse · 19-09-2012 2:31pm

up for anything wrote: »

No, not a typo.

Relative as in relative to what people experience. One person's compassion would be another person's cruelty. I know when I was younger and it was the done thing to submerge a litter or newly born kittens or pups in a bucket of water I found it appalling and yet the people who actually did it would assert that they were being kind.

Would you really not see a 12 year old being able to think or feel that? I don't think you give 12 year olds much credit then.

Ok fair enough. I don't know many 12 year olds to be honest :rolleyes:

Re drowning of kittens, I don't really see how that can be anyone's compassion tbh.

Madam_X · 19-09-2012 2:35pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

If I had to nail my colours, I'd say children learn what they live. For him, violence and abuse was normal and accepted. His brother p1ssed him off and he let him have it.

Yeh I agree. I think it's wishful thinking that he might have been trying to save his little brother. I still think the lad is a victim though, who wouldn't have done it if his life wasn't so f'ucked up. Much of the blame IMO lies with those who neglected and abused him and allowed him to witness stuff a child shouldn't see... and who did the same to his mother. Jesus she was his age when she gave birth to him...

Abi · 19-09-2012 2:50pm

RIP to the little boy. The utterly vile rot that is in that family meant that neither the mother or her sons ever stood a chance. How many times did social protection fail this family? The mother was left in the wrong hands, and in turn so were her two sons. It is utterly sickening, the lot of it. She was made a mother at 12, and her mental health effected her ability to parent these children. She needed serious help herself. By NO means am I justifying her actions, I just don't believe she was all there to begin with. What mother checks the Internet for help for child that has been knocked out? The twelve year old had already broken the toddlers leg, if social protection found out about this it would send up flares everywhere. I think she was scared. Again, it's no excuse, but I think that could have been her mind set.

While it doesn't seem right that the child is tried as an adult, I don't think releasing him 18 is right either. He needs help, but yet again the system is going to fail him. He's too fücked up to be released into society either. Reluctantly, I agree with trying him as an adult.

wonderfullife · 19-09-2012 2:58pm

Abi wrote: »

RIP to the little boy. The utterly vile rot that is in that family meant that neither the mother or her sons ever stood a chance. How many times did social protection fail this family? The mother was left in the wrong hands, and in turn so were her two sons. It is utterly sickening, the lot of it. She was made a mother at 12, and her mental health effected her ability to parent these children. She needed serious help herself. By NO means am I justifying her actions, I just don't believe she was all there to begin with. What mother checks the Internet for help for child that has been knocked out? The twelve year old had already broken the toddlers leg, if social protection found out about this it would send up flares everywhere. I think she was scared. Again, it's no excuse, but I think that could have been her mind set.

While it doesn't seem right that the child is tried as an adult, I don't think releasing him 18 is right either. He needs help, but yet again the system is going to fail him. He's too fücked up to be released into society either. Reluctantly, I agree with trying him as an adult.

In that case you would have to be for every single 13 year old being tried for every single crime as an adult, regardless of how "fcuked up" they are. Otherwise there is no point having a law if it can be circumvented for certain people and not for others. Everybody is supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law, whether that's a nice 13 year old from a good family or a messed-up 13 year old from a dysfunctional family. If you start picking and choosing who should be tried as an adult on a case-by-case basis, it makes a mockery of having a law in the first place.

(US) Boy, 13, to be tried as an adult after killing his 2-year-old brother

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