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(US) Boy, 13, to be tried as an adult after killing his 2-year-old brother

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    #2
    TheBody
    Registered Users Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭TheBody


    He has almost no chance of becoming a functioning member of society. Seriously screwed up stuff there.


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    #3
    mitosis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭mitosis


    It's not his fault he's the way he is, but he is that way now. He needs locking up - not for punishment, but because he is not suited to be in the community at large.


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    #4
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    How utterly utterly sad.

    I wonder just how many times these poor children were failed by the system...


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    #5
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    At 13 he is a child, clearly an extremely damaged child but a child nonetheless.
    How can you try a child as an adult? That dosnt even make sense.


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    #6
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    There is something wrong with a society that lets a child live in such conditions, and then expects him to take adult responsibility for his resulting actions.


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    #7
    The Cool
    Registered Users Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭The Cool


    Tragic - definitely a case of nurture over nature here.
    He never had a chance really.


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    #8
    Tombi!
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

    If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

    Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.


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    #9
    Riddle101
    Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    That whole family is a disgrace. It's like the family is cursed or something. The mother, grand mother, father, step father they're all screwed up. It's no wonder the kid turned out the way he did. Trully tragic indeed.


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    #10
    Martyn1989
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭Martyn1989


    Why are they naming him and publishing his pics?


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    #11
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    Brutal Deluxe wrote: »
    Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

    If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

    Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.

    I don't think anyone is calling for special treatment, but trying him as an adult is an outrage. It's a tragic story, some kids don't stand a chance.


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    #12
    Tombi!
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    Martyn1989 wrote: »
    Why are they naming him and publishing his pics?

    I think they're allowed to because he's being tried as an adult?
    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is calling for special treatment, but trying him as an adult is an outrage. It's a tragic story, some kids don't stand a chance.
    He is being given a chance; he's getting the chance to live his life. He murdered someone. It's not manslaughter. It's not an accident. He has a lot more of a chance compared to the brother of his.


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    #13
    mackg
    Registered Users Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    Brutal Deluxe wrote: »
    Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

    If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

    Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.

    By trying a 13 year old as an adult they are in effect giving him special treatment in a negative way though. If tried as an adult will he be sent to an adult prison? That definitely shouldn't happen. We are effectively talking about a max ~70 year sentence for a crime he committed when he was twelve.


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    #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,505 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is calling for special treatment, but trying him as an adult is an outrage. It's a tragic story, some kids don't stand a chance.

    I think it's not fair on him to be tried as an adult, but at the same time, I think it would be irresponsible to put him in a juvenile facility with other children given his history.


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    #15
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Brutal Deluxe wrote: »
    Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

    If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

    Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.

    just? :eek:

    this kid is a product of his envirnoment, he's not getting special treatment but he should be!

    idk if the damage can be reversed... but trying him as an adult and locking him up for life is wrong imo


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    #16
    christ on a bike!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 476 ✭✭christ on a bike!


    The mother is, understandably, getting a lot of abuse. But then you see that she had him when she was just 12, no doubt she is a product of her own upbringing also.
    It's stange though as people generally don't give as much, if any, sympathy to the adult but they would to the child. But when this child becomes an adult and commits a crime there will be the usual cries for "lock him up and throw away the key" and "bring back the death penalty"

    But he is a child now and it's very sad. I still don't understand, or even see, the reasoning for trying a child as an adult?


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    #17
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    Brutal Deluxe wrote: »
    He is being given a chance; he's getting the chance to live his life. He murdered someone. It's not manslaughter. It's not an accident. He has a lot more of a chance compared to the brother of his.

    There is a reason why minors are charged as minors and not as adults. I don't see why this should be suspended just because a crime is especially heinous (as far as I know Florida law allows this). Someone is either a minor or they aren't.


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    #18
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is calling for special treatment, but trying him as an adult is an outrage. It's a tragic story, some kids don't stand a chance.

    Yeah, especially the little baby who was left to die after his head was smashed in.


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    #19
    Skate Nutter
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Skate Nutter


    We have no problems by comparison.


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    #20
    Tombi!
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    mackg wrote: »
    By trying a 13 year old as an adult they are in effect giving him special treatment in a negative way though. If tried as an adult will he be sent to an adult prison? That definitely shouldn't happen. We are effectively talking about a max ~70 year sentence for a crime he committed when he was twelve.

    This isn't like he decided to steal a few thousand euro or put someone's windows in because he didn't like them.
    It's murder. Not accidental or in defense or anything. I'd get if he happened to get into a fight and it was from that. But he smashed his 2 year old's head in.

    This is just like the Jamie Bolger case all over again. Except unlike then, people were crying for harsher punishments instead of now.
    davet82 wrote: »
    just? :eek:

    this kid is a product of his envirnoment, he's not getting special treatment but he should be!

    idk if the damage can be reversed... but trying him as an adult and locking him up for life is wrong imo

    It might be wrong in your opinion but having a murderer and someone that abuses a 5 year old sexually out on the streets isn't something that makes me comfortable at all.
    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    There is a reason why minors are charged as minors and not as adults. I don't see why this should be suspended just because a crime is especially heinous (as far as I know Florida law allows this). Someone is either a minor or they aren't.

    But being tried as an adult shows how serious of an incident it is, no? Murdering someone (on purpose like the boy did) is ending someone's existence. Being told you'll be in prison for your life after taking someone's life on purpose isn't that bad.


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    #21
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Yeah, especially the little baby who was left to die after his head was smashed in.

    Yes indeed, the whole story is a sad one. I'm not saying the 13 year-old should get off scott-free (clearly he shouldn't), just that he isn't an adult and shouldn't be tried as one.

    Also, trying to understand how it came to pass that a child bashed his two-year old brother's skull in may help to prevent such things happening in future. As another poster said, reading the story would lead you to the conclusion that with such a f**ked up family, this is nurture not nature.


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    #22
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Brutal Deluxe wrote: »
    It might be wrong in your opinion but having a murderer and someone that abuses a 5 year old sexually out on the streets isn't something that makes me comfortable at all.

    it would make extremely uncomfortable! the kid should not be out on the streets but in the same breath shouldn't spend the rest of life in prison.

    I do not think you can hold this child accountable for his actions because of the physical/mental/sexual abuse he has suffered and because of his age.

    He needs help but maybe its too late.... idk


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    #23
    Tombi!
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    davet82 wrote: »
    it would make extremely uncomfortable! the kid should not be out on the streets but in the same breath shouldn't spend the rest of life in prison.

    I do not think you can hold this child accountable for his actions because of the physical/mental/sexual abuse he has suffered and because of his age.

    He needs help but maybe its too late.... idk

    I could have been abusing other kids at his age just because I was abused as a child too but I knew what was right and wrong. Maybe he can't be held accountable but if he shows that he can be let out in the future I'd imagine he would.


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    #24
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    Brutal Deluxe wrote: »
    But being tried as an adult shows how serious of an incident it is, no? Murdering someone (on purpose like the boy did) is ending someone's existence. Being told you'll be in prison for your life after taking someone's life on purpose isn't that bad.

    The seriousness of the incident stands regardless of the age of the perpetrator though, surely? If he poses a risk to society, then he should have to spend as long in prison until it can be shown otherwise, and if that is life, so be it. But it would make more sense to just try all minors as adults, at least it would be consistent.


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    #25
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,027 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    The poor innocent baby i hate reading stories about

    something that cant defend itself be it a baby or an animal:mad:


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    #26
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    Yes indeed, the whole story is a sad one. I'm not saying the 13 year-old should get off scott-free (clearly he shouldn't), just that he isn't an adult and shouldn't be tried as one.

    Also, trying to understand how it came to pass that a child bashed his two-year old brother's skull in may help to prevent such things happening in future. As another poster said, reading the story would lead you to the conclusion that with such a f**ked up family, this is nurture not nature.

    If he's tried as a child he'll be out in a few years. Woudl you be happy with him walking the streets? Would you let him mind your two year old when he's older?


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    #27
    Tombi!
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    The seriousness of the incident stands regardless of the age of the perpetrator though, surely? If he poses a risk to society, then he should have to spend as long in prison until it can be shown otherwise, and if that is life, so be it. But it would make more sense to just try all minors as adults, at least it would be consistent.

    I don't think minors can be said to spend life in prison. Well I think they have to be re-tried or something at age 18 (not too sure on the America law system).

    Plus there is still capital punishment in Florida so I dunno if it's really about trying him as an adult and having him just in for life or actually carrying on with trying to execute him.


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    #28
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Brutal Deluxe wrote: »
    I could have been abusing other kids at his age just because I was abused as a child too but I knew what was right and wrong. Maybe he can't be held accountable but if he shows that he can be let out in the future I'd imagine he would.

    he needs treatment but i dont think prison is where he will get it, i agree he shouldnt be allowed out til he is passed fit to intergrate with society but this is america we're talkin about so its anyones guess what will happen.


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    #29
    Tombi!
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    davet82 wrote: »
    he needs treatment but i dont think prison is where he will get it, i agree he shouldnt be allowed out til he is passed fit to intergrate with society but this is america we're talkin about so its anyones guess what will happen.

    True but at least the system is trying. It's better to say "lock him up and get him help" (which I have faith will happen) instead of "give him a few years in juvie then let him out".


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    #30
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Brutal Deluxe wrote: »
    True but at least the system is trying. It's better to say "lock him up and get him help" (which I have faith will happen) instead of "give him a few years in juvie then let him out".

    I agree but what is happening here he will be tried as an adult and he'll be locked up for life, full stop.


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    #31
    Tombi!
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    davet82 wrote: »
    I agree but what is happening here he will be tried as an adult and he'll be locked up for life, full stop.

    You don't know (or maybe I can't read the article properly:P).

    I thought if you get life, you're still given chances at parole. Sure didn't Charles Manson only appeal it a few years ago?


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