Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

awec · 08-05-2014 11:56pm

Marshall is completely wasted for Ulster this year. He is far better than the bosh merchant he's been turned in to.

awec · 09-05-2014 12:09am

I am also very concerned about our strength in depth next season. It's pretty bad this year, but we have a load of players leaving so it will be pretty much non-existent next season.

danthefan · 09-05-2014 9:00am

awec wrote: »

Marshall is completely wasted for Ulster this year. He is far better than the bosh merchant he's been turned in to.

It's annoying, because we know he can pass the ball and one thing people don't give him credit for at all is he's a gigantic boot on him, he has a rounded skillset.

Utah_Saint · 09-05-2014 9:11am

danthefan wrote: »

It's annoying, because we know he can pass the ball and one thing people don't give him credit for at all is he's a gigantic boot on him, he has a rounded skillset.

Tbh i've been quite critical of LM this year partly because I've forgot how good he can be as his constant BOSHING has been engraved in my mind

Buer · 09-05-2014 9:19am

awec wrote: »

I am also very concerned about our strength in depth next season. It's pretty bad this year, but we have a load of players leaving so it will be pretty much non-existent next season.

This isn't anything new at Ulster though. There are significant problems in the production line when it comes to forwards. A couple of injuries and the strength of the pack is completely different.

If you take the second string packs of the three big provinces, there's a big drop off comparing them.

Leinster: McGrath, Cronin, Moore, Cullen, Denton, McLaughlin, Jennings, Murphy
Munster: Cronin, Sherry, Archer, DOC, Foley, Stander, Dougal, Butler
Ulster: Black, Herring, Lutton, Henderson, Stevenson, Diack, Doyle, Wilson

It's not very bad but it's certainly the weakest, for me. Henderson is there on the basis that he's behind Muller and Tuohy but overall the front 5 is quite pedestrian and the back row is never going to get any better given its age profile.

The problem is, I don't see how it's going to change at any point in the near future. The lads in the academy are very young and unlikely to be thrown in for a few years. With Best turning 32 this summer, they could well have another issue coming down the line.

Buer · 09-05-2014 9:21am

The one thing about LM is that I noticed he was used in quite a similar manner in his Irish appearance too. He's a fine footballer but he's also a tank and coaches seem to want to use him as the battering ram to open the gaps for others.

Utah_Saint · 09-05-2014 9:49am

Buer wrote: »

This isn't anything new at Ulster though. There are significant problems in the production line when it comes to forwards. A couple of injuries and the strength of the pack is completely different.

If you take the second string packs of the three big provinces, there's a big drop off comparing them.

Leinster: McGrath, Cronin, Moore, Cullen, Denton, McLaughlin, Jennings, Murphy
Munster: Cronin, Sherry, Archer, DOC, Foley, Stander, Dougal, Butler
Ulster: Black, Herring, Lutton, Henderson, Stevenson, Diack, Doyle, Wilson

It's not very bad but it's certainly the weakest, for me. Henderson is there on the basis that he's behind Muller and Tuohy but overall the front 5 is quite pedestrian and the back row is never going to get any better given its age profile.

The problem is, I don't see how it's going to change at any point in the near future. The lads in the academy are very young and unlikely to be thrown in for a few years. With Best turning 32 this summer, they could well have another issue coming down the line.

We can produce centre's for fun at the min but I agree the production of forwards is dire...!

A quality (established) backrow and a backrow project should be a priority now!

shuffol · 09-05-2014 10:15am

Buer wrote: »

This isn't anything new at Ulster though. There are significant problems in the production line when it comes to forwards. A couple of injuries and the strength of the pack is completely different.

If you take the second string packs of the three big provinces, there's a big drop off comparing them.

Leinster: McGrath, Cronin, Moore, Cullen, Denton, McLaughlin, Jennings, Murphy
Munster: Cronin, Sherry, Archer, DOC, Foley, Stander, Dougal, Butler
Ulster: Black, Herring, Lutton, Henderson, Stevenson, Diack, Doyle, Wilson

It's not very bad but it's certainly the weakest, for me. Henderson is there on the basis that he's behind Muller and Tuohy but overall the front 5 is quite pedestrian and the back row is never going to get any better given its age profile.

The problem is, I don't see how it's going to change at any point in the near future. The lads in the academy are very young and unlikely to be thrown in for a few years. With Best turning 32 this summer, they could well have another issue coming down the line.

I'd hope they'd be looking at someone like George McGuigan. Has done really well this year straght from u-20s. Behind Scott Lawson but has had plenty of gametime and scored a few tries, seems to be highly rated. Given his fathers an Ulsterman its someone they should be keeping an eye on.

Utah_Saint · 09-05-2014 11:05am

Hi Guys - Many of the Ulster fans on this forum will know of wee Oscar Knox. Sadly Oscar lost his battle with Cancer yesterday evening. Ulster Rugby took Oscar to their hearts and he enjoyed meeting and training with some of the team. Many of the wider Ulster Rugby family have been heavily involved in fund raising for Oscar. Thoughts and prays to the Knox family and for anyone else who may be battling this terrible disease.

awec · 09-05-2014 11:49am

Saw that news today, very sad. No child should have to go through what he did.

mfceiling · 10-05-2014 9:46am

I have to say that Paddy Jackson is very quickly reaching legend status in my eyes...

http://balls.ie/rugby/paddy-jacksons-instagram-account/

Utah_Saint · 10-05-2014 10:02am

on the pitch he looks very straight faced then off the pitch he produces stuff like that...def a character:P

Utah_Saint · 10-05-2014 10:04am

even with the weakened squad for todays game i'm hoping we can play with a bit o' freedom and produce some nice patterns

mfceiling · 10-05-2014 10:06am

Utah_Saint wrote: »

even with the weakened squad for todays game i'm hoping we can play with a bit o' freedom and produce some nice patterns

Can you imagine the laugh if they actually won the game!! A few posters on here would probably die from the shock!!

Utah_Saint · 10-05-2014 10:17am

i honestly don't think it will be that bad :pac:. Just hope the scrum holds out.

jacothelad · 10-05-2014 11:55am

Utah_Saint wrote: »

on the pitch he looks very straight faced then off the pitch he produces stuff like that...def a character:P

Paddy's dad is as mad as a bag of stoats. He's a great guy altogether and his son has obviously inherited the loon gene. I've actually played with Paddy's Grandad, Stanley Jackson who was an amazingly talented player. He played 8 or 15 for Collegians and was supeerb at either. He was a bit small for the 8 position but he was ferocious. He was a great full back and was probably kept out of the Ulster team in those days by Brian Marshall.

Long may Paddy enjoy life and I'm pretty sure that he doesn't read the sorry stuff that passes for rugby analysis on some boards. He's a 22 year old kid making his way as a pro athlete and at this young age is a far better player than any of Sexton, Keatley or Madigan were at that stage. Jackson may not get any better but he's doing well at the moment.

His critics who point out his less than 100% kicking success do have a justifiable reason to ask if he is better or worse than others. There are stats available on all this. Sexton's international kicking success is marginally better than ROG's but who would believe that. Neither of them are in the stellar kickers zone. Humphreys was a better kicker than either but that doesn't count does it. The one person I blame for Jackson being only a 'good' kicker is Doak. Along side one of Ulster's regional coaches and ex-AIL head coach I have watched some kicking practices involving NOC, iHumph and Mincer. We both came to the same conclusion that iHumph simply ignored Doak and that the other two had their natural rhythm and balanced altered and perhaps - let's say - disimproved. Both of us were involved many years ago in the early days of kicking coaching development so we were personally interested. I'd be very keen to see Jackson have a session or 2 with Dave Alred......or whoever supports the other Irish kickers. The most important thing in a kickers armoury is their own inate ability. As a teenager, Jackson was a superb kicker. See the Aviva opening.

mfceiling · 10-05-2014 1:04pm

You're not wrong there Jaco.

You could see he was striking the ball a lot better in the few chances he got for Ireland and the games he played in between for Ulster.
His rythmn and timing seemed spot on - i'm assuming that was the influence of the Irish management and coaches.

bilston · 12-05-2014 11:07pm

Right what do people see as our starting XV for Saturday?

I'm hoping sense will return and we will see Payne at 15 and Cave at 13.

After that we have to see what players are available. I assume Big Nick is out, the question is whether Roger is fit? If not we are in a spot of bother. I'm not sure what the craic is with Diack but I suppose Henry would have to move to 8 with Doyle coming in at 7 in Williams, Wilson and Diack are out. An out there suggestion would be to move Henderson at 8, but then who plays 6?

Elsewhere is there any chance that any of our injured players could make a return? I've mentioned Diack, but it would be nice to see Best and/or Afoa back, Pienaar too. Maybe all that's wishful thinking.

awec · 12-05-2014 11:09pm

They have O'Brien back. We need Wilson or our back row will get battered.

Honestly no idea what sort of team to expect. Could be anything. So long as I don't see Payne at 13 and Cave isn't getting splinters in his arse on the bench!

bilston · 12-05-2014 11:13pm

awec wrote: »

They have O'Brien back. We need Wilson or our back row will get battered.

Honestly no idea what sort of team to expect. Could be anything. So long as I don't see Payne at 13 and Cave isn't getting splinters in his arse on the bench!

Reading Uafc I would guess at this

Payne, Trimble, Cave, Marshall, Bowe, Jackson, Pienaar, Black, Best, Warwick, Muller, Tuohy, Henderson, Henry, Wilson

Just how fit Ruan and Rory are remains to be seen of course, but encouraging nonetheless (if true)

awec · 12-05-2014 11:15pm

Flip I'd take that right now. Scrums would be a concern but that's about as good as we would be able to hope for!

George Hook · 13-05-2014 1:16am

I forget, I know Best is injured just can't put my finger on what happened to him?

irishbucsfan · 13-05-2014 1:40am

George Hook wrote: »

I forget, I know Best is injured just can't put my finger on what happened to him?

Injured against Sarries

Utah_Saint · 13-05-2014 11:35am

any word of Ferris?

stephen_n · 13-05-2014 1:59pm

Is Cave carrying an injury or why has he had so little game time lately?

bilston · 13-05-2014 7:27pm

stephen_n wrote: »

Is Cave carrying an injury or why has he had so little game time lately?

Nope, some reckon he is being frozen out by Anscombe. It will be VERY interesting to see whether he starts this weekend. I expect he will.

stephen_n · 15-05-2014 1:03pm

bilston wrote: »

Nope, some reckon he is being frozen out by Anscombe. It will be VERY interesting to see whether he starts this weekend. I expect he will.

Maybe Anscombe has already written of this season and is just looking at options, playing Bowe and Payne there, still seems strange when your first choice is fit, for him to play so little rugby at this end of the season.

DGRulz · 15-05-2014 4:46pm

Paddy Wallace retiring at the end of the season
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/31813.php

I am pie · 16-05-2014 1:30pm

Utah_Saint wrote: »

any word of Ferris?

the eternal question, we're told it's a minor ankle injury.

Worryingly sporadic comeback. Doubts remain...

RobbieRuns · 16-05-2014 3:10pm

Really hope that he is ok.

Such an amazing player, to make a comeback is tough, he has tried everything to get fit, best of luck Stevie.

George Hook · 17-05-2014 12:38pm

I am pie wrote: »

the eternal question, we're told it's a minor ankle injury.

Worryingly sporadic comeback. Doubts remain...

It's his other ankle, the good one. He hasn't played in what 18months (can't put my finger on the right number atm) he was always going to pick knocks.

irishbucsfan · 17-05-2014 12:45pm

George Hook wrote: »

It's his other ankle, the good one. He hasn't played in what 18months (can't put my finger on the right number atm) he was always going to pick knocks.

He's always hurting the other limb. That's the concern now. He'll go away with a knee injury, come back and pick up a random ankle injury, then come back and pick up a shoulder injury.

I really hope he comes back, but I'm not really putting much faith in it.

awec · 18-05-2014 1:33pm

So, Anscombe out anyone?

bilston · 18-05-2014 1:56pm

awec wrote: »

So, Anscombe out anyone?

Well as I said yesterday I'm not sure he can get us over the line in the big games. I think we are ok next season as far as our player roster is concerned and it will likely see a couple more additions before the new season as well. I'm not convinced about Anscombe. Does he even want to be here anyway?

awec · 18-05-2014 1:58pm

I don't think he does.

I don't see any progress from us since McLaughlin. I would be happy to see him leave in the next few weeks.

Buer · 18-05-2014 2:00pm

There's a case for it but I wouldn't want him out. He's been given serious resources in the past two years and provided with a great squad so it's fair to expect some silverware.

With that said, he's brought Ulster through two seriously tough HEC pools and topped both as well as bringing them to the knock outs of the Pro12 each season.

I think he's had some rotten luck during his time. If his board had got their sh*t together last season and had his ground ready as was planned, Ulster would have a Pro12 title in the bag. Then he suffered a massive red card decision in his HEC game which effectively decided the tie.

One of (if not his premier) star player has decided to be pretty much absent due to "home sickness" for long stretches of the past 18 months. Key players have spent significant periods injured.

Unfortunately, this season was perhaps the key season for Ulster in terms of winning something. Important players are now gone. He has one season to integrate a few new players into his pack and deliver something which is a huge ask. Along with that, a number of fringe players are departing. He'll have to replace them to maintain depth without dropping the standard of the performances during international windows which is going to be very difficult. Macklin, Doyle and McKinney were all in last night's 23. McAllister, Cochrane, McIlwaine, Farrell, Porter, Wallace and Annett are gone too.

Next season is going to be very tough simply due to the change in personnel.

Buer · 18-05-2014 2:02pm

On a side note, with as little fanfare as he played his rugby, Johann Muller has departed. All the best to him. One of the most understated and best foreign signings of the past decade. Great leader.

awec · 18-05-2014 2:03pm

Buer wrote: »

There's a case for it but I wouldn't want him out. He's been given serious resources in the past two years and provided with a great squad so it's fair to expect some silverware.

With that said, he's brought Ulster through two seriously tough HEC pools and topped both as well as bringing them to the knock outs of the Pro12 each season.

I think he's had some rotten luck during his time. If his board had got their sh*t together last season and had his ground ready as was planned, Ulster would have a Pro12 title in the bag. Then he suffered a massive red card decision in his HEC game which effectively decided the tie.

One of (if not his premier) star player has decided to be pretty much absent due to "home sickness" for long stretches of the past 18 months. Key players have spent significant periods injured.

Unfortunately, this season was perhaps the key season for Ulster in terms of winning something. Important players are now gone. He has one season to integrate a few new players into his pack and deliver something which is a huge ask. Along with that, a number of fringe players are departing. He'll have to replace them to maintain depth without dropping the standard of the performances during international windows which is going to be very difficult. Macklin, Doyle and McKinney were all in last night's 23. McAllister, Cochrane, McIlwaine, Farrell, Porter, Wallace and Annett are gone too.

Next season is going to be very tough simply due to the change in personnel.

The red card was unlucky in terms of the Heineken Cup.

But our league form this year has been very average. We played far better last year - our form has gone backwards.

The Afoa thing isn't his fault. It's noticable that he has appeared to have fallen off the face of the earth - wasn't taking part in the lap of Ravenhill during the last game (despite being at the game) and not really mentioned in any of the references to players retiring / leaving etc.

I am completely unconvinced by him and by many accounts his methods and attitude is sometimes questionable.

Tox56 · 18-05-2014 2:29pm

Buer wrote: »

There's a case for it but I wouldn't want him out. He's been given serious resources in the past two years and provided with a great squad so it's fair to expect some silverware.

With that said, he's brought Ulster through two seriously tough HEC pools and topped both as well as bringing them to the knock outs of the Pro12 each season.

I think he's had some rotten luck during his time. If his board had got their sh*t together last season and had his ground ready as was planned, Ulster would have a Pro12 title in the bag. Then he suffered a massive red card decision in his HEC game which effectively decided the tie.

One of (if not his premier) star player has decided to be pretty much absent due to "home sickness" for long stretches of the past 18 months. Key players have spent significant periods injured.

Unfortunately, this season was perhaps the key season for Ulster in terms of winning something. Important players are now gone. He has one season to integrate a few new players into his pack and deliver something which is a huge ask. Along with that, a number of fringe players are departing. He'll have to replace them to maintain depth without dropping the standard of the performances during international windows which is going to be very difficult. Macklin, Doyle and McKinney were all in last night's 23. McAllister, Cochrane, McIlwaine, Farrell, Porter, Wallace and Annett are gone too.

Next season is going to be very tough simply due to the change in personnel.

Ulster have been unlucky but under Anscombe they simply haven't delivered. They topped the league last season but that's about the extent of their success. 4th in the table this year and 14 points off top spot, and even at that they could have been under a lot more pressure for a playoff spot if Ospreys hadn't imploded against Zebre.

By my count they've had 5 knockout games under Anscombe and they've won 1, home to the Scarlets. It's not like he's going to have a particularly improved squad next season, where are they going with him?

George Hook · 18-05-2014 3:37pm

Up until a few weeks ago Ulster had been in a pretty good place. We were robbed in the HEC. Based on that I think he needs another year to prove himself. But then there are other things to consider. Next year as has been said is a transition year for the players so it might be a bit much to expect silverware, so it might be hard to judge his overall performance.

But going back to some of the displays this season, when down to 14 men when it really mattered the team pulled together and gave a great performance. But perhaps conversely in most if not all of the lesser matches we seem to have lacked composure and the ability to really keep the pressure on teams.

Its been a pretty mixed bag all in all, some great performances here and there. And not to be too disparaging of Ansombe but one thing that my family have always picked up on was how messy he generally looks in interviews - like he doesn't care. Never judge a book by it's cover but more often than not if a man can't be bothered to probably look after himself then perhaps not everything is going well.*

*I may edit this a bit later, I don't think I got close enough accurately portraying what I mean.

Teferi · 18-05-2014 7:42pm

awec wrote: »

The red card was unlucky in terms of the Heineken Cup.

But our league form this year has been very average. We played far better last year - our form has gone backwards.

The Afoa thing isn't his fault. It's noticable that he has appeared to have fallen off the face of the earth - wasn't taking part in the lap of Ravenhill during the last game (despite being at the game) and not really mentioned in any of the references to players retiring / leaving etc.

I am completely unconvinced by him and by many accounts his methods and attitude is sometimes questionable.

Afoa was a massive waste of money. Spent more time in New Zealand then in Ireland. I felt Ulster were far too much of a soft touch with him, they should have forced him to live to the letter of his contract or else came to an agreement to end his contract.

bilston · 18-05-2014 7:52pm

Teferi wrote: »

Afoa was a massive waste of money. Spent more time in New Zealand then in Ireland. I felt Ulster were far too much of a soft touch with him, they should have forced him to live to the letter of his contract or else came to an agreement to end his contract.

I read a rumour that Ulster wanted to let him go last season but Afoa couldn't get a suitable offer from the Auckland Blues so he insisted on seeing out his contract, albeit on reduced terms for reduced play. Of course to resolve the fact that he was missing home so much he went and signed for Gloucester.

He has undoubtedly had a hard time of it but it's hard to think of him of in the same terms as Muller and Pienaar in terms of commitment to Ulster. There definitely seems to be more of a connection between our South African imports with Ulster than our other overseas player...some exceptions of course such as Steinmetz or even Andy Ward (different circumstances of course).

danthefan · 18-05-2014 8:08pm

Usual health warnings apply - this is a complete rumour, but apparently Afoa is fit/not injured. He just either wasn't selected or wouldn't play.

bilston · 18-05-2014 8:13pm

danthefan wrote: »

Usual health warnings apply - this is a complete rumour, but apparently Afoa is fit/not injured. He just either wasn't selected or wouldn't play.

Well there have certainly been insinuations on uafc that he just wasn't selected.

danthefan · 18-05-2014 8:19pm

bilston wrote: »

Well there have certainly been insinuations on uafc that he just wasn't selected.

Considering how badly the Lutton went he must have really really pissed off the Ulster management.

I know he's a class player but Ulster are better off without if that's his attitude.

jacothelad · 18-05-2014 9:12pm

One of the few upsides of Afoa's soujourn and his many, many 'absences' is that we discovered that Warwick may have / has the makings of a very fine prop. We also had confirmed that Lutton, while willing, is not there yet (kind). Small crumbs of comfort.

Last night also confirmed for me that Anscombe is a muddled coach. Payne is not a high class 13, Cave is. Marshall is a high class 12, Cave isn't. Payne is a superb attacking full back who makes Ulster tick. It's so simple and so evident. If Payne doesn't want to play 15 then he should be offered the chance to leave.

awec · 18-05-2014 9:32pm

jacothelad wrote: »

One of the few upsides of Afoa's soujourn and his many, many 'absences' is that we discovered that Warwick may have / has the makings of a very fine prop. We also had confirmed that Lutton, while willing, is not there yet (kind). Small crumbs of comfort.

Last night also confirmed for me that Anscombe is a muddled coach. Payne is not a high class 13, Cave is. Marshall is a high class 12, Cave isn't. Payne is a superb attacking full back who makes Ulster tick. It's so simple and so evident. If Payne doesn't want to play 15 then he should be offered the chance to leave.

This Cave / Payne / Gilroy combination should now be consigned to history.

If this Payne at 13 notion is being driven by the player himself then that is all the more farcical.

jacothelad · 18-05-2014 9:40pm

awec wrote: »

This Cave / Payne / Gilroy combination should now be consigned to history.

If this Payne at 13 notion is being driven by the player himself then that is all the more farcical.

Gilroy is fine at 15 though. I think, like Zebo, he wouldn't be out of place there IF NEEDED. Payne, I think, is the best 15 in Ireland.

awec · 18-05-2014 9:44pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Gilroy is fine at 15 though. I think, like Zebo, he wouldn't be out of place there IF NEEDED. Payne, I think, is the best 15 in Ireland.

Gilroy can play 15 if needed. He's not good enough there to allow us to move Payne elsewhere. But I am talking about the combination.

If Marshall, Cave and Payne are all fit then the 12 Marshall 13 Cave 15 Payne is the best combination by a country mile.

The fact that we changed this for a semi final actually drives me nuts. Why the hell would you start experimenting at this stage of the season, especially when Payne has never shone at 13 in any chance he's had there! :mad:

mfceiling · 18-05-2014 10:21pm

awec wrote: »

Gilroy can play 15 if needed. He's not good enough there to allow us to move Payne elsewhere. But I am talking about the combination.

If Marshall, Cave and Payne are all fit then the 12 Marshall 13 Cave 15 Payne is the best combination by a country mile.

The fact that we changed this for a semi final actually drives me nuts. Why the hell would you start experimenting at this stage of the season, especially when Payne has never shone at 13 in any chance he's had there! :mad:

True this.

By all means have a lash at it on a warmish september's evening against Zebre or Treviso...but in a winner takes all semi against our old nemesis - forget about it.

I don't know where we are heading next year. Pienaar has looked off the boil this last while. Marshall seems to have been told to watch old videos of Kevin Maggs and as a whole i think our squad has weakened going into 2014/2015.

We can only hope that Ferris and Olding come back stronger next year and that we unearth another Henderson or similar from the academy.

Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Comments