Fernando Torres

Paully D · 06-11-2012 12:16am

Jesus wept. Reading this thread anyone would think he'd just disappeared off the face of the earth since leaving Liverpool.

In reality, since leaving Liverpool he's won the Champions League, FA Cup, European Championship with Spain and finished top scorer there. He's also significantly increased his weekly wage and is the first choice striker in a title challenging team.

He's doing alright for himself to be honest.

LiamoSail · 06-11-2012 12:33am

Paully D wrote: »

Jesus wept. Reading this thread anyone would think he'd just disappeared off the face of the earth since leaving Liverpool.

In reality, since leaving Liverpool he's won the Champions League, FA Cup, European Championship with Spain and finished top scorer there. He's also significantly increased his weekly wage and is the first choice striker in a title challenging team.

He's doing alright for himself to be honest.

I would be off the opinion that it's more rewarding to play the Steven Gerard role then the John o'shea role. That is, be an integral part of the second placed team then an also ran in the winning team

Nobody can dispute the fact that in terms of club football, his most successful spell has been at Chelsea as its a team game and succes is measured in silverware. However, from a personal level, Liverpool was undoubtly the peak of his career

Rekop dog · 06-11-2012 1:07am

There's no getting away from the fact that he's been pretty average for some time now, it's not contentious, almost 2 years at Chelsea and scoring at a rate of 1 in every 5 league games, simply not good enough. People have been continually predicting his return to form during this period and he does show glimpses of class now and again but he doesn't have the mentality for a long consistent career at the highest level, and I think motivation will become progressively tougher as once a player enters the going through the motions phase they rarely ever get back to their best.

aidan24326 · 06-11-2012 3:09am

Paully D wrote: »

Jesus wept. Reading this thread anyone would think he'd just disappeared off the face of the earth since leaving Liverpool.

In reality, since leaving Liverpool he's won the Champions League, FA Cup, European Championship with Spain and finished top scorer there. He's also significantly increased his weekly wage and is the first choice striker in a title challenging team.

He's doing alright for himself to be honest.

Of course he is doing alright for himself but we're only comparing him to what he was 3 or 4 years ago.

It's like Tiger Woods in golf, he still does well but ian't the dominant force that he used to be.

Torres wasn't much more than a peripheral figure in Chelsea's Champions League win and has done nothing to justify the 50 million price tag, nor anything even close.

In contrast if you splashed out 50M for Falcao now I think you'd get your money's worth. He's the player Chelsea thought they were buying.

jesus_thats_gre · 06-11-2012 10:08am

rarnes1 wrote: »

some crackers here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDDR9ubKKw

Breaks my heart.

Easily my fav player in a Liverpool shift since Fowler.

Father Damo · 06-11-2012 10:31am

MD1990 wrote: »

he has nearly always been poor for Spain including Euro 2008 when his final winning goal masked over his poor performances at the competition

Didnt his run of injuries start not long before Euro 2008? He wasnt fully fit for it IIRC.

i certaintly wouldn't want him back an Anfield
he thought he was too good for the club & look how it turned out for him at Chelsea

Liverpool was the club that he loved. Liverpool is the club that ruined his career. And Liverpool is the club I used to love but have abandoned in part due to this.

Torres was repeatedtly getting injured on international duty. Benitez at the time was unimpressed by the national team medical approach, accusing them of poorly treating his joint best player. From these injuries, Torres was again and again rushed back into first team action. His performances became sub par, his body was under strain, the fans became impatient. By the September before he left out there was a big movement of fans wanting rid of him anyway. When he realised the fans had turned on him, he said fcuk it, left, and got dogs abuse for it. He was left at Chelsea still struggling with the after effects of his chronic injury periods. Injuries that became more and more frequent because Liverpool refused to give him a few months rehab that he really needed.

Over expectation, idiot fans, by this stage Liverpool was becoming a bit too much like Man Utd for my tastes (although I did some hold out until the last straw, the appointment of Dalglish. By that stage, for me, and after the way Hodgson was treated, enough was enough). I wish him every success, and the Euros show he can still pull it off. Probably for the best to go back to Athletico or somewhere he could have a passion for the game at again. But it is sad to say that in my time I cannot recall a player of such top top quality having such a downfall in such a short space of time (not counting the likes of Andy Carroll and other one season wonders, I mean proven world class players). No matter wht, Torres will not reach his old form anywhere, he might be a good player elsewhere, but never again a great player, and in 50 years he will be largely forgotten when us old men recall Messi, Ronaldo and Zidane. And it is mostly the fault of my former fan club Liverpool. Sad stuff.

Will I Amnt · 06-11-2012 11:11am

Father Damo wrote: »

Didnt his run of injuries start not long before Euro 2008? He wasnt fully fit for it IIRC.

Liverpool was the club that he loved. Liverpool is the club that ruined his career. And Liverpool is the club I used to love but have abandoned in part due to this.

Torres was repeatedtly getting injured on international duty. Benitez at the time was unimpressed by the national team medical approach, accusing them of poorly treating his joint best player. From these injuries, Torres was again and again rushed back into first team action. His performances became sub par, his body was under strain, the fans became impatient. By the September before he left out there was a big movement of fans wanting rid of him anyway. When he realised the fans had turned on him, he said fcuk it, left, and got dogs abuse for it. He was left at Chelsea still struggling with the after effects of his chronic injury periods. Injuries that became more and more frequent because Liverpool refused to give him a few months rehab that he really needed.

Over expectation, idiot fans, by this stage Liverpool was becoming a bit too much like Man Utd for my tastes (although I did some hold out until the last straw, the appointment of Dalglish. By that stage, for me, and after the way Hodgson was treated, enough was enough). I wish him every success, and the Euros show he can still pull it off. Probably for the best to go back to Athletico or somewhere he could have a passion for the game at again. But it is sad to say that in my time I cannot recall a player of such top top quality having such a downfall in such a short space of time (not counting the likes of Andy Carroll and other one season wonders, I mean proven world class players)

How much of that is fact?
How much is hearsay?
And how much is guesswork?

Father Damo · 06-11-2012 11:17am

cambo2008 wrote: »

How much of that is fact?
How much is hearsay?
And how much is guesswork?

Benitez is on record as questioning the Spanish medical set up, IIRC Torres was injured on three internationals in a short space of time.

Will I Amnt · 06-11-2012 11:26am

Father Damo wrote: »

Benitez is on record as questioning the Spanish medical set up, IIRC Torres was injured on three internationals in a short space of time.

You could be bang on there on everything for all I know but I've never seen most of that confirmed anywhere.
You would want to have pretty definitive answers to abandon a club.

Also, you say Liverpool is the club he loved. I'd argue Atletico is.
Liverpool is a club he loved. As I'd imagine Chelsea would be if he hit the form expected of him and became a fans favourite but that's highly unlikely.

GavRedKing · 06-11-2012 11:41am

cambo2008 wrote: »

You could be bang on there on everything for all I know but I've never seen most of that confirmed anywhere.
You would want to have pretty definitive answers to abandon a club.

Also, you say Liverpool is the club he loved. I'd argue Atletico is.
Liverpool is a club he loved. As I'd imagine Chelsea would be if he hit the form expected of him and became a fans favourite but that's highly unlikely.

The fans have always been behind Torres at Chelsea, hes even said it himself recently that one of the only reasons hes stuck around is to repay the fans faith in him and for not getting on his back.

carlop · 06-11-2012 12:09pm

Torres loved/loves one club, and it is not Liverpool.

As an Atleti fan, I personally hope he doesn't come back as I don't think he's good enough for them. However, I'd definitely be in a minority in having that opinion, mainly because I've only started supporting Atleti since I moved to Madrid a few years ago and a good few years after Torres left.

Will I Amnt · 06-11-2012 12:54pm

GavRedKing wrote: »

The fans have always been behind Torres at Chelsea, hes even said it himself recently that one of the only reasons hes stuck around is to repay the fans faith in him and for not getting on his back.

I wasn't suggesting they're not behind him but I don't think he is getting anywhere near the respect and adulation that others in the squad are.

There's a difference between not getting on his back and being a fans favourite.

Sgt Pepper 64 · 06-11-2012 1:03pm

cambo2008 wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting they're not behind him but I don't think he is getting anywhere near the respect and adulation that others in the squad are.

There's a difference between not getting on his back and being a fans favourite.

Agreed - all he has to do though is to start scoring regular! (fans love that about strikers!)

GavRedKing · 06-11-2012 3:18pm

cambo2008 wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting they're not behind him but I don't think he is getting anywhere near the respect and adulation that others in the squad are.

There's a difference between not getting on his back and being a fans favourite.

Arguably Mata is the fans favourite in the current squad, maybe Lamps could run him close though.

The fans have a respect for Torres that hes willing to still do a job even if things arent going his way in terms of goal scoring and that his overall team play is still very good.

slingerz · 07-11-2012 1:01am

Watching Torres in that YouTube clip he just looks a totally different player nowadays he's almost unrecognisable really. In his Liverpool spell he looked the complete forward able to hold the ball up go in behind attack crosses he had it all really if you had only seen that you could understand why Chelsea spent £50 million on hm

niallo27 · 07-11-2012 1:35am

Father Damo wrote: »

Didnt his run of injuries start not long before Euro 2008? He wasnt fully fit for it IIRC.

Liverpool was the club that he loved. Liverpool is the club that ruined his career. And Liverpool is the club I used to love but have abandoned in part due to this.

Torres was repeatedtly getting injured on international duty. Benitez at the time was unimpressed by the national team medical approach, accusing them of poorly treating his joint best player. From these injuries, Torres was again and again rushed back into first team action. His performances became sub par, his body was under strain, the fans became impatient. By the September before he left out there was a big movement of fans wanting rid of him anyway. When he realised the fans had turned on him, he said fcuk it, left, and got dogs abuse for it. He was left at Chelsea still struggling with the after effects of his chronic injury periods. Injuries that became more and more frequent because Liverpool refused to give him a few months rehab that he really needed.

Over expectation, idiot fans, by this stage Liverpool was becoming a bit too much like Man Utd for my tastes (although I did some hold out until the last straw, the appointment of Dalglish. By that stage, for me, and after the way Hodgson was treated, enough was enough). I wish him every success, and the Euros show he can still pull it off. Probably for the best to go back to Athletico or somewhere he could have a passion for the game at again. But it is sad to say that in my time I cannot recall a player of such top top quality having such a downfall in such a short space of time (not counting the likes of Andy Carroll and other one season wonders, I mean proven world class players). No matter wht, Torres will not reach his old form anywhere, he might be a good player elsewhere, but never again a great player, and in 50 years he will be largely forgotten when us old men recall Messi, Ronaldo and Zidane. And it is mostly the fault of my former fan club Liverpool. Sad stuff.

You come back with this horse**** over and over again about how you used to support Liverpool but you have now turned against them because of the idiot fans, no one gave a **** the last few times you said it and no one cares now.

cj maxx · 07-11-2012 2:46am

, Torres was again and again rushed back into first team action. ..., his body was under strain, .....Injuries that became more and more frequent because Liverpool refused to give him a few months rehab that he really needed[/B]

theres a lot of **** in the whole text of the above post but i really dont think anyone can say that the quoted bits in bold (i hope) aren't true , whatever about the op.
the lack of a good striker to deputise for torres ,or two good ones to play , when torres was injured or just squad rotation cost us a title. we had ngo?? and robbie keane, who else voronin?
dirk did an admiral job and his engine and guts are beyond doubt but he was no torres.
torres allowed us to dominate midfield because he was so fuc&in good as a lone striker.
as to treating players well , if the media is to be believed, the hawking xabi to juve , getting the villa captain to put in a transfer request in expectation of a bid to replace him and then not coming up with the moola stank. be it rafa or gillett/hicks.
torres got injured ok but liverpool should have had a plan b to allow for his recovery and did not do him any favours that way

Washington Irving · 07-11-2012 3:05am

You made a total balls of that post, cjmc

hefferboi · 07-11-2012 8:55am

Father Damo wrote: »

Didnt his run of injuries start not long before Euro 2008? He wasnt fully fit for it IIRC.

Liverpool was the club that he loved. Liverpool is the club that ruined his career. And Liverpool is the club I used to love but have abandoned in part due to this.

Torres was repeatedtly getting injured on international duty. Benitez at the time was unimpressed by the national team medical approach, accusing them of poorly treating his joint best player. From these injuries, Torres was again and again rushed back into first team action. His performances became sub par, his body was under strain, the fans became impatient. By the September before he left out there was a big movement of fans wanting rid of him anyway. When he realised the fans had turned on him, he said fcuk it, left, and got dogs abuse for it. He was left at Chelsea still struggling with the after effects of his chronic injury periods. Injuries that became more and more frequent because Liverpool refused to give him a few months rehab that he really needed.

Over expectation, idiot fans, by this stage Liverpool was becoming a bit too much like Man Utd for my tastes (although I did some hold out until the last straw, the appointment of Dalglish. By that stage, for me, and after the way Hodgson was treated, enough was enough). I wish him every success, and the Euros show he can still pull it off. Probably for the best to go back to Athletico or somewhere he could have a passion for the game at again. But it is sad to say that in my time I cannot recall a player of such top top quality having such a downfall in such a short space of time (not counting the likes of Andy Carroll and other one season wonders, I mean proven world class players). No matter wht, Torres will not reach his old form anywhere, he might be a good player elsewhere, but never again a great player, and in 50 years he will be largely forgotten when us old men recall Messi, Ronaldo and Zidane. And it is mostly the fault of my former fan club Liverpool. Sad stuff.

Hahaha

quarryman · 07-11-2012 9:09am

Paully D wrote: »

Jesus wept. Reading this thread anyone would think he'd just disappeared off the face of the earth since leaving Liverpool.

In reality, since leaving Liverpool he's won the Champions League, FA Cup, European Championship with Spain and finished top scorer there. He's also significantly increased his weekly wage and is the first choice striker in a title challenging team.

He's doing alright for himself to be honest.

This. 100% this.

Liverpool fans say it because its what they want to believe. Fact is, he has won everything since he left Liverpool.

I'd say he's more than happy with his career move.

Leiva · 07-11-2012 10:38am

DaaaaaaaaaaN wrote: »

So there you have it, I hope you will all now agree that it wasn't his deep love of Liverpool nor the weight of a ridiculously high transfer fee on his shoulders that lead to his steady deterioration in form, it was simply due to the catastrophic mistake of cutting his hair, the source of all his power and skill.

Contrary to your beliefs I have evidence that supports the opposite...

Lucas Leiva .... Long hair = was shít hair cut = became great

Glen Johnson ..Long hair = was shít hair cut = became great

Andriy Veronin.Long hair = was shít hair cut = still shít

Andy Carroll . Long hair = is shít ] hair cut = who knows

..wait a minute - scrap that !:pac:

Sgt Pepper 64 · 07-11-2012 10:44am

Leiva wrote: »

Contrary to your beliefs I have evidence that supports the opposite...

Lucas Leiva .... Long hair = was shít hair cut = became great

Glen Johnson ..Long hair = was shít hair cut = became great

Andriy Veronin.Long hair = was shít hair cut = still shít

Andy Carroll . Long hair = is shít ] hair cut = who knows

..wait a minute - scrap that !:pac:

Actually your both wrong.
When he left, Liverpool FC demanded that he return his lucky rabbits foot, which when used on match days and combined with touching the "This is Anfield sign" but BEFORE Stevie G kissed him on the Left cheek whilst holding his Right elbow, was the true source of his power!

GavRedKing · 07-11-2012 10:46am

Leiva wrote: »

Contrary to your beliefs I have evidence that supports the opposite...

Lucas Leiva .... Long hair = was shít hair cut = became great

Glen Johnson ..Long hair = was shít hair cut = became great

Andriy Veronin.Long hair = was shít hair cut = still shít

Andy Carroll . Long hair = is shít ] hair cut = who knows

..wait a minute - scrap that !:pac:

Add Messi to that list, since cutting his hair hes become double the player he used to be.

Same with Iniesta......well actually hes losing his more so then he got it cut.

Giggsy11 · 07-11-2012 11:12am

GavRedKing wrote: »

Add Messi to that list, since cutting his hair hes become double the player he used to be.

Same with Iniesta......well actually hes losing his more so then he got it cut.

Add B3B3 too.

Leiva · 07-11-2012 11:24am

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Add B3B3 too.

does he not fall under this category ?
Long hair = was shít hair cut = still shít

cj maxx · 07-11-2012 11:28am

SaulGoode9 wrote: »

You made a total balls of that post, cjmc

probably , i justed looked at the time i posted. had a few:o
i do hope you get what i was trying to say ,namely that pool did overuse torres when he needed recovery, mostly because there was no other option on the bench.

Giggsy11 · 07-11-2012 11:59am

Leiva wrote: »

does he not fall under this category ?
Long hair = was shít hair cut = still shít

NO.

Long hair/dreadlocks = World class, Hair Cut = Best player ever :pac:

quarryman · 07-11-2012 10:47pm

Another Champions League goal for "washed out" Torres. Chelsea looking good for qualification again.

Poor guy. If he'd stuck with Liverpool he wouldn't have any of that distraction and could focus on targeting the illustrious Europa League.

What has he done with his career...

Leiva · 07-11-2012 10:49pm

quarryman wrote: »

Another Champions League goal for "washed out" Torres. Chelsea looking good for qualification again.

Poor guy. If he'd stuck with Liverpool he wouldn't have any of that distraction and could focus on targeting the illustrious Europa League.

What has he done with his career...

Who are you quoting with the "washed out" comment or just being creative

gerryo777 · 07-11-2012 10:50pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

There's deluded, and there's LFC. Honest to christ... :rolleyes:

Good man neil:rolleyes:

quarryman · 07-11-2012 11:00pm

Leiva wrote: »

Who are you quoting with the "washed out" comment or just being creative

Quoting this guy:

Leiva wrote: »

Continuing on from a discussion last night I think this deserves its own thread...

I think Torres time in the Premier League is quickly coming to an end as the guy looks miserable. It looks like he will never reach the heights and prolific goal scoring Chelsea wished for, as its coming on two years now and he has failed to hit any real form.

In his time at Liverpool his first 56 appearances gave him a goal total of 39 'vs' the 11 for Chelsea over the same amount of games to date.

He was never going to hit them figures again, even with the better players around him at Chelsea,but I don't think anyone imagined it would be so dismal.

The guy can still score (don't get me wrong) but for me it's a combination of the wrong move, wrong system and probably still a bit in love with LFC that has contributed to his demise.

I wouldn't mind having him back at Liverpool to see if we could spark something in him again, but at this stage its a risk that is way too pricey in our current state.

I hope for the fella that he gets out of the PL and maybe back to Spain asap as it like looking at an ex in a bad place.

God love him. Desperately clinging onto the hope that answer to the question "Is Torres and the Premier League done?"

.... is yes.

Bless.

Leiva · 07-11-2012 11:02pm

quarryman wrote: »

Quoting this guy:

God love him. Desperately clinging onto the hope that answer to the question "Is Torres and the Premier League done?"

.... is yes.

Bless.

answer my question. where do I say (or anybody say) washed out?

and what are you fücking rattling on about?

Handsome Bob · 07-11-2012 11:14pm

Leiva wrote: »

answer my question. where do I say (or anybody say) washed out?

and what are you fücking rattling on about?

He seems to be trying to be sarcastic.

Fair play to Fernando.

klose · 07-11-2012 11:18pm

quarryman wrote: »

This. 100% this.

Liverpool fans say it because its what they want to believe. Fact is, he has won everything since he left Liverpool.

I'd say he's more than happy with his career move.

As a Liverpool fan I can confirm this is completely correct

Rolleyes x20

Bobeagleburger · 07-11-2012 11:19pm

Quarryman, humour fail.

Leiva · 07-11-2012 11:21pm

was that the act ?

Cringeworthy tbh

eagle eye · 07-11-2012 11:25pm

Some decent posts in this thread and then the LFC brigade arrived and not surprisingly the thread turns into a car crash.

quarryman · 07-11-2012 11:31pm

Aw, hyper-defensiveness from the Liverpool faithful. Adorable.

Leiva, apologies. I must have interpreted the following wrongly:

I think Torres time in the Premier League is quickly coming to an end

he will never reach the heights and prolific goal scoring

he has failed to hit any real form

effected his head.

You were indicating that he was the opposite of washed out? Ah, ye see, I didn't get that from "his time was at an end".

I guess the tears in my eyes reading the deluded part about "love with LFC" distracted me.

niallo27 · 08-11-2012 12:32am

quarryman wrote: »

Aw, hyper-defensiveness from the Liverpool faithful. Adorable.

Leiva, apologies. I must have interpreted the following wrongly:

You were indicating that he was the opposite of washed out? Ah, ye see, I didn't get that from "his time was at an end".

I guess the tears in my eyes reading the deluded part about "love with LFC" distracted me.

Do you think Torres has been a success at Chelsea, do you think he is happy with his form, do you think he looks half the player he was before he joined Chelsea.

RasTa · 08-11-2012 12:43am

niallo27 wrote: »

Do you think Torres has been a success at Chelsea, do you think he is happy with his form, do you think he looks half the player he was before he joined Chelsea.

He's had success with Chelsea, which is what he moved for. Great move for him and Liverpool tbh

niallo27 · 08-11-2012 1:00am

RasTa wrote: »

He's had success with Chelsea, which is what he moved for. Great move for him and Liverpool tbh

Yes but there is a difference between having success and being a success.

EdenHazard · 08-11-2012 1:16am

I agree, football and the joy of it is firstly about personal glory. i guarentee most footballers are concerned with their performance first, and then the teams. So while torres has won stuff he never could have at liverpool, it doesnt mean that much because he's been on the periphery of the success.

eagle eye · 08-11-2012 1:49am

EdenHazard wrote: »

I agree, football and the joy of it is firstly about personal glory. i guarentee most footballers are concerned with their performance first, and then the teams. So while torres has won stuff he never could have at liverpool, it doesnt mean that much because he's been on the periphery of the success.

Scoring the goal that knocked Barcelona out in the semi-final is hardly on the periphery of it. It was crucial and Chelsea would not have been in the final without that so I think he will have been very pleased with his input.

Melion · 08-11-2012 1:54am

eagle eye wrote: »

Scoring the goal that knocked Barcelona out in the semi-final is hardly on the periphery of it. It was crucial and Chelsea would not have been in the final without that so I think he will have been very pleased with his input.

Wasn't that just the icing on the cake that night i.e they didn't really need his goal. And didn't he come on with 10 mins to go?

cj maxx · 08-11-2012 2:19am

Melion wrote: »

Wasn't that just the icing on the cake that night i.e they didn't really need his goal. And didn't he come on with 10 mins to go?[/QUOTE]
exactky, though its a squad game right?:rolleyes:

MaroonAndGreen · 08-11-2012 2:20am

7 goals this season.. hes doing alright and will more than likely finish with 20+..

Its just become a sport in itself to analyse every touch Fernando has in a game and to criticise him when possible!

RasTa · 08-11-2012 3:55am

Melion wrote: »

Wasn't that just the icing on the cake that night i.e they didn't really need his goal. And didn't he come on with 10 mins to go?

Considering Barca where winning 2-1 at the time then no.

PhlegmyMoses · 08-11-2012 4:02am

Read an article earlier that said that if you removed all of Torres' PL goals for Chelsea, they'd be two points worse off. He's not scoring important goals like openers, levelers or winners. He has been an unmitigated disaster.

PhlegmyMoses · 08-11-2012 4:03am

eagle eye wrote: »

Scoring the goal that knocked Barcelona out in the semi-final is hardly on the periphery of it. It was crucial and Chelsea would not have been in the final without that so I think he will have been very pleased with his input.

This is incorrect. They were going through on away goals anyway.

kingtubby · 08-11-2012 10:28am

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Read an article earlier that said that if you removed all of Torres' PL goals for Chelsea, they'd be two points worse off. He's not scoring important goals like openers, levelers or winners. He has been an unmitigated disaster.

To say Torres's Chelsea goals this year only contributed to 2 points is very disengenuous. That is to say his goal against Arsenal was his only meaningful goal as that was the only game he scored where Chelsea won by only one goal.

But he scored the opener against Newcastle, the equaliser against Norwich and he scored to put Chelsea ahead against Reading with only 10 mins to go.

Just because Chelsea went on to win those games by more than one goal does not mean they weren't all vital.

Fernando Torres

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