OLEARY! FLAG AND MOCKING THE DEAD

Absurdum · 20-11-2010 1:15am

Patriotism and what it represents is still hugely important to me, notwithstanding what the people we somehow elected to run the place have done to this country. It saddens me to read some of the comments here, hopefully someday they will realise what so many gave up in the name of Ireland. Some probably won't, because being PC and the fear of offending someone is more important than pride. Their loss.

Dudess · 20-11-2010 1:18am

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Nothing to be proud of? You consider yourself a non-nationality(?)

What (s)he means is: what's the accomplishment/achievement?

You wouldn't feel any pride when Irl beat Eng at Croker? When Ray 'stuck it in the net' in Stuttgart in '88. If we managed to win tomorrow against the All Blacks- you'd feel nothing, not a hint of pride in being Irish? If your county won the All Ireland - nothing? I could go on .....

National identity in a sporting context is different to pride re simply where you were born.

IMVHO you are fúcked, proper fúcked!

Eh... how?

thebullkf · 20-11-2010 1:19am

Dudess wrote: »

I think it's a different thing to embrace your identity if you're repressed.

we were

Can do, yeah - but not always.

helix said mostly, thats why i posted what i did.

Dudess · 20-11-2010 1:20am

Absurdum wrote: »

It saddens me to read some of the comments here, hopefully someday they will realise what so many gave up in the name of Ireland. Some probably won't, because being PC and the fear of offending someone is more important than pride. Their loss.

Who said anything about being PC? What's so saddening about people genuinely not being able to see what there is to be proud of? I'd agree it's wanky for people to be ashamed of it though, and I hate the "We Irish are sh1te" constant threads... but you can't force people to feel something they don't feel.

Dudess · 20-11-2010 1:21am

thebullkf wrote: »

we were

And we're not now. It's been a LONG time.

thebullkf · 20-11-2010 1:23am

Dudess wrote: »

And we're not now. It's been a LONG time.

if we were , would you be proud..?

just curious.

Dudess · 20-11-2010 1:29am

I would be more defensive of my national identity if I was the target of abuse on the mere basis of it, like e.g. the Palestinians, but I don't know whether that's the same as pride.

The Waltzing Consumer · 20-11-2010 1:31am

Dudess wrote: »

The Waltzing Conumser, as you well know, people don't just sit down and decide what views they have. Sometimes you just go with your feelings - being Irish doesn't particularly stir any emotions for me, but if it does stir emotions for someone, their business. You keep your Irishness in your way, I'll keep it in mine.

Eh I don't buy it, ha.

Not very convincing. Feelings are based on experience and information and yep, in a way, people sit down and decide what views they have. do you think views just fly down and are dropped into your lap? I don't care if you like or dislike nationality, it is just simply incorrect to say that you are like that default.

partyatmygaff · 20-11-2010 1:31am

Why would anyone be proud of something they have no control of? Nationalism and patriotism are fine in very small measures (And I mean almost negligible) but from history all that excessive nationalism has achieved is war and conflict.

Dudess · 20-11-2010 1:33am

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Eh I don't buy it, ha.

Not very convincing. Feelings are based on experience and information and yep, in a way, people sit down and decide what views they have. do you think views just fly down and are dropped into your lap? I don't care if you like or dislike nationality, it is just simply incorrect to say that you are like that default.

Can't see how it is, but anyway...

JayMul · 20-11-2010 1:35am

Dudess wrote: »

I don't debase it, just never felt any inclination towards it personally. I don't have pride in my neighbourhood either, other than keeping it litter-free, being pleasant to my neighbours, etc. If that's a form of "micro-patriotism", well, I'm all for that.

Well you don't have to be proud of your neighbourhood but you may find your life more enriching if you were. It sounds like you are, I just thought I'd insert that point as it applies to the broader sense too.

The Waltzing Consumer · 20-11-2010 1:36am

Dudess wrote: »

I would be more defensive of my national identity if I was the target of abuse on the mere basis of it, like e.g. the Palestinians, but I don't know whether that's the same as pride.

Ha, wait, I feel silly now for responding to you. Make up your mind girl, you either have zero interest in nationalism like I thought you were saying you had, or you do in certain circumstances. Can't have it both ways.

People are obviously Irish when they want to be and diss it when they feel like it.

Arnold Layne · 20-11-2010 1:36am

thebullkf wrote: »

its ironic,he will become what he despises.

An incompetent and/or corrupt politician? :rolleyes:

starbelgrade · 20-11-2010 1:37am

What's this thread about again?

JayMul · 20-11-2010 1:37am

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Why would anyone be proud of something they have no control of? Nationalism and patriotism are fine in very small measures (And I mean almost negligible) but from history all that excessive nationalism has achieved is war and conflict.

We arent being run by the Taliban, last time I checked anyway.

Krusader · 20-11-2010 1:38am

Helix wrote: »

how exactly?

where youre from is nothing to be proud of

be proud of things you actually achieved yourself

patriotism is a thinly veiled excuse for xenophobia in most cases

i was born in ireland, my passport says im irish, but i wouldnt consider myself any nationality tbh. i dont see the point in it. we all live on the same rock in space, thats good enough for me

So you class yourself as an Earthling

Kinetic^ · 20-11-2010 1:38am

starbelgrade wrote: »

What's this thread about again?

Pantaloons.

krudler · 20-11-2010 1:39am

thebullkf wrote: »

who do you know thats not proud to be irish..?

Im not, my parents fcuked here, thats about my involvement in being Irish, if being born on a particular piece of land on the planet defines who you are thats pretty sad tbh.

Dudess · 20-11-2010 1:39am

Saw that Freudian slip, Krudler - and in relation to your parents too... sicko! :mad:

:pac:

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Ha, wait, I feel silly now for responding to you.

I know the feeling...

People are obviously Irish when they want to be and diss it when they feel like it.

Where did anyone say they choose when they're Irish? I'm Irish, never said I wasn't. Thought it was pride re being Irish being discussed, not simply Irishness?

PeterIanStaker · 20-11-2010 1:43am

Nobody cares.

krudler · 20-11-2010 1:43am

Dudess wrote: »

Saw that Freudian slip, Krudler - and in relation to your parents too... sicko! :mad:

:pac:

I know the feeling...

Where did anyone say they choose when they're Irish? I'm Irish, never said I wasn't. Thought it was pride re being Irish being discussed, not simply Irishness?

Dammit, I thought I'd get it edited quicker :pac: you have to be on the ball round these parts

The Waltzing Consumer · 20-11-2010 1:46am

Dudess wrote: »

I know the feeling...

Tip: If you have teen feelings of cattiness, then I won't continue. Okay?

Dudess wrote: »

Where did anyone say they choose when they're Irish? I'm Irish, never said I wasn't. Thought it was pride re being Irish being discussed, not simply Irishness?

Well no, I should have kept to the term nationalism. The only reason I was talking to you was because you presented yourself as someone who has zero interest in your nationalism, not born that way, the way you roll, thats you default etc., but then you say you would be more interested or defensive in your nationalism if you were being repressed. Bit weird.

KindOfIrish · 20-11-2010 1:47am

O'Leary and Ryanair is the best thing that has happened to Ireland since independence. Irish Republic has failed because majority have never got it. I can bet you will vote for the same politicians again. Goodbye Ireland

Dudess · 20-11-2010 1:53am

^^^
Attention-seeking, unfounded nonsense ftw...

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

The only reason I was talking to you was because you presented yourself as someone who has zero interest in your nationalism, not born that way, the way you roll, thats you default etc., but then you say you would be more interested or defensive in your nationalism if you were being repressed. Bit weird.

Two different sets of circumstances though. My point is, depends on context, interpretation, personal preference, etc. I'm also saying I'm not condemning those who have national pride, just to respect those who don't once they're respected back.

IT-Guy · 20-11-2010 1:57am

Have to agree with Dudess throughout this thread, I don't get the big deal about not being proud to any agree of being Irish. Neither am I ashamed, the country I was born in was an accident of birth, nothing I had any control over so why should I be 'proud' to be from Ireland? My nationality is a line on my passport, not my lifestyle ffs.

Oh and Dudess, marry me

Millicent · 20-11-2010 2:09am

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Eh I don't buy it, ha.

Not very convincing. Feelings are based on experience and information and yep, in a way, people sit down and decide what views they have. do you think views just fly down and are dropped into your lap? I don't care if you like or dislike nationality, it is just simply incorrect to say that you are like that default.

Her parents had sex and she was born here. Why does that require her to have patriotic sensibilities? If she doesn't feel patriotic, I doubt you telling her that her reasoning is "not very convincing" is going to sway her.

strobe · 20-11-2010 2:15am

thebullkf wrote: »

tell that to the woman in limerick burying her kids today.

turn on the tv and there's the oleary clown acting the eejit.

its ironic,he will become what he despises.

If you are serious......ouchy! Don't use some poor mother who has lost children for your nonsense. If you are taking the piss.... there are better things to take the piss out of than murdered children. Anything else...Sea Kelp.

Mike 1972 · 20-11-2010 2:18am

thebullkf wrote: »

o'leary mocking the sacrament of death

Magill · 20-11-2010 2:20am

I dont see what hte big deal is.... whats wrong with being proud of were you come from... im a proud irish man... that doesnt mean that i go up to every non-irish person and bash out the ole "Im Irish... Everyone loves the Irish" quote.

What is wrong with feeling pride in what your ancestors achieved.. im very proud of my parents, they achieved a lot during very tough times with the troubles etc Im proud of what my country has achieved throughout history.

I really dont care if people have no sense of pride of where you came from.... but dont sit there and tell me its pointless.

rubensni · 20-11-2010 2:20am

Helix wrote:

where youre from is nothing to be proud of

thebullkf wrote: »

really, tell that to native americans, aborigines

What's so special about them? Many peoples were colonised by the English.

Paparazzo · 20-11-2010 2:27am

krudler wrote: »

Im not, my parents fcuked here, thats about my involvement in being Irish, if being born on a particular piece of land on the planet defines who you are thats pretty sad tbh.

Your parents have sex. Gross

Mike 1972 · 20-11-2010 2:28am

Magill wrote: »

What is wrong with feeling pride in what your ancestors achieved.

For one thing I dont assume that all my ancestors were born in the same country as me. I could do some research to try and find out but it would be kinda pointless as the whole excercise would be based on another rather drastic assumption. Namely that all my ancestors were faithful to their spouses.

Magill · 20-11-2010 2:39am

Mike 1972 wrote: »

For one thing I dont assume that all my ancestors were born in the same country as me. I could do some research to try and find out but it would be kinda pointless as the whole excercise would be based on another rather drastic assumption. Namely that all my ancestors were faithful to their spouses.

what ?

krudler · 20-11-2010 2:40am

Paparazzo wrote: »

Your parents have sex. Gross

Just twice, to make me and my sister, they hated every minute of it I'm sure.

senordingdong · 20-11-2010 2:42am

doleman2010 wrote: »

Are there any people left in this country with any sense of pride and respect for themselves and others?
.

Well I live by the example our glorious leaders set so...

no.

K-9 · 20-11-2010 2:47am

doleman2010 wrote: »

Very few citizens are afforded the honour of having the Tricolour on them on their final jouney and this clown has to insult them and their loved ones .

My Dad had the honour of getting the full honours at his funeral this year.

It would have meant everything to him.

I don't think he would have been insulted. It was making a point. He'd be turning in his grave that the state he served proudly, is in this mess.

waxon-waxoff · 20-11-2010 2:55am

I dont mind O'Learys latest stunt as it was a welcome break from the depression and anger that makes up the news these days.

But some of the ignorant comments on this thread are a disgrace and insulting. The flag is a piece of a cloth, but its about what it represents and identifies. It represents Irish people, culture, sport and everything that makes us unique and proud.

Pal · 20-11-2010 2:55am

doleman2010 wrote: »

Are there any people left in this country with any sense of pride and respect for themselves and others?
After Mr Olearys carry on with the coffin and hearse and the national colours why are people not outraged by this ?
Very few citizens are afforded the honour of having the Tricolour on them on their final jouney and this clown has to insult them and their loved ones .

haven't read the thead.
GTF

Pal · 20-11-2010 3:03am

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

You're not proud of being Irish?

kind of humiliated and ashamed myself TBH

johnmcdnl · 20-11-2010 4:38am

surely the symbolism in this stunt was to show that Ireland is dead - ie ****ed - doesn't take a genius to figure it out

I'd consider myself to be a patriot so anyone disrespecting the flag would be in my bad books lets say - but this isn't disrespecting the flag and anyone who thinks it is really needs to cop the **** on.. you really do have little else to be worrying about right now..

I can only imagine Mick Collins back here in Ireland today and going on Joe Duffy to give out about OLeary's stunt today rather than actually worry about the IMF's proposed takeover of the country pretty much...

I'd say he'd and all those other patriots who died for Ireland through the years would be more worried about the government that's in place today rather than this little stunt..
-that the people they died to free from outside rule have essentially put us back into the power of outsiders... I'd personally consider that to be a bigger crime and disrespect to the dead patriots of Ireland

Helix · 20-11-2010 5:21am

ShamoBuc wrote: »

You wouldn't feel any pride when Irl beat Eng at Croker? When Ray 'stuck it in the net' in Stuttgart in '88. If we managed to win tomorrow against the All Blacks- you'd feel nothing, not a hint of pride in being Irish? If your county won the All Ireland - nothing? I could go on .....

IMVHO you are fúcked, proper fúcked!

why would i feel pride at any of them?

1) i dont like rugby
2) i dont like international football
3) see 1
4) i dont like gaa
5) i dont play for any of the teams mentioned so their achievements have nothing to do with me. i felt pride whenever any teams i played on won anything, coz id actually achieved something. i dont understand taking pride in the fact that i had to be born in one place, when i could so easily have been born in another

Helix · 20-11-2010 5:23am

Crosáidí wrote: »

So you class yourself as an Earthling

im a human, like every other human on the planet

Capt'n Midnight · 20-11-2010 3:23pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

For one thing I dont assume that all my ancestors were born in the same country as me. I could do some research to try and find out but it would be kinda pointless as the whole excercise would be based on another rather drastic assumption. Namely that all my ancestors were faithful to their spouses.

just do DNA tests on all your living relatives :pac:

In other cultures people take their mothers surname

there was a flood in a maternigy hospital here in 1984 , it destroyed the cards with the drop of blood taken from every infant born in the state since 1966, so we only the sample for those born since 1984 , would be interesting to see how often the birth certs and DNA matched

Seanchai · 20-11-2010 3:30pm

Helix wrote: »

Nationalism and patriotism belongs in the past

Nationalism and patriotism are just representations of tribalism. Tribalism is a fundamental part of human existence. Always has been, and it's highly unlikely it's going to stop now.

Mike 1972 · 20-11-2010 4:04pm

Unfortunately you are probably spot on with that one

Stompbox · 20-11-2010 4:16pm

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

You're not proud of being Irish?

Why would one find pride in something they never had any choice in achieving? Pride can be sourced in many things but pride in your nationality is like pride of being a millionaire because you inherited a fortune from your parents.

Einstein himself said that 'nationalism is the most infantile of all diseases, its is the measles of mankind.'

Helix · 20-11-2010 4:17pm

Seanchai wrote: »

Nationalism and patriotism are just representations of tribalism. Tribalism is a fundamental part of human existence. Always has been, and it's highly unlikely it's going to stop now.

I dunno, itll need to eventually

Stompbox · 20-11-2010 4:25pm

thebullkf wrote: »

YOB????

wheres the yob here??

so everyone thinks every irish person is a Thick mick??
if you think this,then you're not very well educated.sweeping statement of the week.(though i assume its the jersey wearing,anti-english gob****es you're referring to?

my direct ancestors were involved,and were murdered.
thats the real sin. ....Vanity

are you trolling deliberately?

where are you from?

walking around like what exactly??? your ideas seem skewed to me.

who said full? ..edit: enough:rolleyes:

You fail. Seriously. This post is thoroughly representative of the 'thick micks'
that Misanthrope was on about. You read every sentence and cast your own utterly illogical and ill-conceived interpretation in some lame attempt to make Misanthrope look like the ignorant one here,

Einhard · 20-11-2010 4:30pm

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

You're not proud of being Irish?

How can someone be proud of something they had no part in achieving? I like being Irish, I think Irish people have many great traits and qualities, but it's a bit silly to be proud of an accident of birth and the achievements of others.

Stompbox · 20-11-2010 4:32pm

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Tip: If you have teen feelings of cattiness, then I won't continue. Okay?

Resorting to low-brow snide remarks only serve to weaken your case. Dudess is simply trying to present her side of the argument, one I most certainly agree with.

OLEARY! FLAG AND MOCKING THE DEAD

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