Security at nightclubs

wotswattage · 29-07-2013 6:01pm

Saying to a random member of staff holding a menu that you're not coming back because of the bouncer is the smart alec comment. He/she will have no idea what you are on about, which bouncer it was or when it happened. They wont pass it on up the line.

I'm not defending the doorman, I'm saying there are right and wrong ways to deal with the situation after it happens. If I were stopped for what I perceived as no reason, I'd first of all not bother going there again, but I'd make sure management heard about it too (on the night, or the next day) to hopefully have the situation dealt with. The manager will make up his/her own mind and if they think the doorman is turning away decent custom they will be gotten rid of.

edit: Note I used the word maybe 4 times. You could have picked the 'maybe he was wrong' as its just as possible as the other 3

Dublinmackem · 29-07-2013 6:21pm

bill buchanan wrote: »

Do you really believe people should just accept it unquestionably? Because the security must have had a good reason? Come on. I'm a 36 year old doctor, never been in a fight or any kind of trouble. I hadn't had a drink at that point and was just meeting a few friends for a quiet drink. If a security guard refused to let me into a shop I'd mention it to the manager if, 2
weeks later, he asked me to come in and shop. It's entirely reasonable to tell staff that you're unhappy with a policy.

quite right bill, fair play, Im pretty sure I know the place you're talking about too, it's their regular "get out clause line" years ago they would not have to try get people into the restaurant part, it was always busy but the thing is people don't forget and my friends were once refused there for no reason so none of them ever go in even 10 years or so later and I won't either, even with their 7 nights a week entertainment if it's the same place

bold guess from me, their nightclub has also flopped. I think they say if you have a bad expierience you tell 15 people and if you have a good one then you tell an average 4-5 only, but if there was ever an attempt to undermine me or worse then I'll tell everyone

Jumboman · 29-07-2013 8:50pm

Dublinmackem wrote: »

quite right bill, fair play, Im pretty sure I know the place you're talking about too, it's their regular "get out clause line" years ago they would not have to try get people into the restaurant part, it was always busy but the thing is people don't forget and my friends were once refused there for no reason so none of them ever go in even 10 years or so later and I won't either, even with their 7 nights a week entertainment if it's the same place bold guess from me, their nightclub has also flopped. I think they say if you have a bad expierience you tell 15 people and if you have a good one then you tell an average 4-5 only, but if there was ever an attempt to undermine me or worse then I'll tell everyone

Just out of interest are we talking about an establishment in temple bar ?

mick1975 · 29-07-2013 8:55pm

Just tell them your a minority and an orphan, the two pronged approached works for me, oh and cross your eyeballs and dribble and call everyone steve

Dublinmackem · 29-07-2013 9:53pm

Jumboman wrote: »

Just out of interest are we talking about an establishment in temple bar ?

Close enough, the one I guessed bill was on about is a hotel on the northside quays with paddywhackery that would put darby o'gill to shame, one or two in temple bar spring to mind also particularly the one smack bang in the middle

truebluesac · 30-07-2013 9:37am

bill buchanan wrote: »

Of course being a doctor has nothing to do with it, but it shows you that I'm unlikely to be a hardened criminal or have a significant criminal background. I don't know why you think I may have caused trouble there before or that made a "smart alec" comment. I just treated it like any other business. You're trying to defend the indefensble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

😜😜

Jumboman · 30-07-2013 1:05pm

truebluesac wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

&#55357;&#56860;&#55357;&#56860;

lol their must be many more Harold Shipmans out there that havnt been caught yet. The doorman was probably right not to let him in he could of been a serial killer.

bill buchanan · 30-07-2013 1:05pm

truebluesac wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

😜😜

Obviously I said "unlikely", rather than "impossible".

I wouldn't name the place, but it's on the edge of temple bar. I think it's entrely appropriate to mention why, when a staff member asks if you'd like a menu. In fact it's probably less rude than just saying "no". Simple case of "sorry, I tried to come in here a couple of weeks ago and that guy wouldn't let me in, so I won't be coming back". Didn't have a go at the staff member. I'm not going to pretend I lost any sleep over whether they believed he had a good reason. I was just being honest. Not gonna waste my time to track down a manager the next day, as there's stacks of pubs in Dublin willing to take my cash!

truebluesac · 30-07-2013 1:18pm

bill buchanan wrote: »

Obviously I said "unlikely", rather than "impossible".

!

Without getting into a debate on which employment is more or less likely to have a criminal conviction . Years ago when i was growing up (im 33) the priest , nuns and christian brothers could do no wrong and infact were a coner stone to the beliefs of socity , a nation And where hughly influencial over our government and its policies . Fast forward to present day and what doest hindsight teach us . Between sex scandles , magdeline laundrys , kiddy fiddling and the violance of some instituations . It has taught us to be cautious of everybody .

Nobody is above reproach .

truebluesac · 30-07-2013 1:22pm

By the way i am in no way suggesting that you are any of the above examples . I am mearly pointing out the murder , deception and violance knows no acedemic ,political or social boundarys

bill buchanan · 30-07-2013 1:29pm

truebluesac wrote: »

Without getting into a debate on which employment is more or less likely to have a criminal conviction . Years ago when i was growing up (im 33) the priest , nuns and christian brothers could do no wrong and infact were a coner stone to the beliefs of socity , a nation And where hughly influencial over our government and its policies . Fast forward to present day and what doest hindsight teach us . Between sex scandles , magdeline laundrys , kiddy fiddling and the violance of some instituations . It has taught us to be cautious of everybody .

Nobody is above reproach .

I'm of course not saying anyone s above reproach, and never even suggested it. was just make the side point that we have criminal record checks very very frequently. I've had 3 in roughly the last 18 months. So the "unlikely" point stands. But it was never the central point in the argument.

truebluesac · 30-07-2013 1:43pm

bill buchanan wrote: »

I'm of course not saying anyone s above reproach, and never even suggested it. was just make the side point that we have criminal record checks very very frequently. I've had 3 in roughly the last 18 months. So the "unlikely" point stands. But it was never the central point in the argument.

I fully agree with the rest of your points . Id just move on and not give it a 2nd taught and wouldnt drink there again . Simples

But i couldnt resist jumping on that comment 😜

candydevine · 15-08-2013 9:07pm

how does one lodge a complaint to the the PSA, Private Security Authority,
mucho gracious

AllthingsCP · 15-08-2013 11:21pm

candydevine wrote: »

how does one lodge a complaint to the the PSA, Private Security Authority,
mucho gracious

On the Website. http://www.psa.gov.ie/Website/psa/psa.nsf/newsitems/44C46FF57B6F748D8025781D0039EB3F?Opendocument

ryaner2k14 · 23-08-2014 6:13pm

Security Waterford( Door Supervisors) Licenced Premises. Have the right to refuse admission to any person. you have to remember night clubs and bars are privately owned and its up to owners if they want you in or not. the door staff can enforce this on behalf of the owner becuase they are licenced to do so. its a pain in the hole but its just a fact. if you were really feeling grieved about it the only thing you could do is request the Doormen PSA Licence number. its the number printed on the front of the orange licence card that must be worn and displayed to the public at all times while on duty.
its against the law for him or her to refuse you to look at it. The number will be easily identifiable. and example would be EM654321/16.
another suggestion would be to have a quite word with the Head of Security.

Jumboman · 24-08-2014 4:39pm

ryaner2k14 wrote: »

Security Waterford( Door Supervisors) Licenced Premises. Have the right to refuse admission to any person. you have to remember night clubs and bars are privately owned and its up to owners if they want you in or not. the door staff can enforce this on behalf of the owner becuase they are licenced to do so. its a pain in the hole but its just a fact. if you were really feeling grieved about it the only thing you could do is request the Doormen PSA Licence number. its the number printed on the front of the orange licence card that must be worn and displayed to the public at all times while on duty.
its against the law for him or her to refuse you to look at it. The number will be easily identifiable. and example would be EM654321/16.
another suggestion would be to have a quite word with the Head of Security.

Are they able to get away with refusing people on racial grounds or sexual orientation ?

padma · 24-08-2014 4:45pm

Jumboman wrote: »

Are they able to get away with refusing people on racial grounds or sexual orientation ?

No..not under the nine grounds of discrimination by the way thread is a year old.

Jumboman · 24-08-2014 5:06pm

padma wrote: »

No..not under the nine grounds of discrimination by the way thread is a year old.

So does that mean people from minority groups can not be refused from anywhere ?

ryaner2k14 · 24-08-2014 5:54pm

In a nutshell its at the doorstaffs decression who is aloud in or not. if you really felt that he or she was discriminating against you. it would be a matter for the courts. but id imagine a hard case to win.

padma · 24-08-2014 5:59pm

Jumboman wrote: »

So does that mean people from minority groups can not be refused from anywhere ?

No..it means they can not be discriminated against based on their ethnicity.

lighterman · 24-08-2014 11:38pm

Jumboman wrote: »

So does that mean people from minority groups can not be refused from anywhere ?

What are you exactly asking. Why not just ask out straight.

wotswattage · 25-08-2014 3:10pm

Jumboman wrote: »

So does that mean people from minority groups can not be refused from anywhere ?

They can be refused for being drunk, high, underage, behaving in a threatening manner, etc.

But NOT because they are part of a minority..

foggy_lad · 29-08-2014 4:44pm

wotswattage wrote: »

They can be refused for being drunk, high, underage, behaving in a threatening manner, etc.

But NOT because they are part of a minority..

Don't forget the classic refusal reasons - Wearing runners/jeans/not wearing runners/jeans, in a group that is too large/on your own.

Strumms · 29-08-2014 8:28pm

To be honest I would never waste my time arguing with these Neanderthals. You have to remember that these types of individuals are doing the job they are doing for a reason and it isn't because they are overly intelligent, interested in your welfare, have a keen sense of customer focus or are capable of making sound and reasonable judgements they are generally hired goons at the lower levels of society, have limited skill sets and usefulness.. of course there is the odd exception to that.

Just go somewhere that you will be welcomed, treated civilly and where your custom will be appreciated. Do not waste your time justifying their existence it's part of them getting their kicks.

I left a nightclub with four friends when one of our friends who arrived later wasn't being allowed in for one of the usual reasons.. Well dressed, sober and a nice guy so could have been no issues... We all just walked and met up with him outside and went elsewhere.

CB19Kevo · 30-08-2014 3:09pm

Strumms just because you may have had a few bad encounters with them does not make them all idiots,I have had a few bad encounters with the Guards but i dont judge the entire force based on those incidents.

Strumms · 30-08-2014 4:45pm

CB19Kevo wrote: »

Strumms just because you may have had a few bad encounters with them does not make them all idiots,I have had a few bad encounters with the Guards but i dont judge the entire force based on those incidents.

I'm not altogether sure how sure Guards might appreciate the comparison of their profession to that of whom we speak of in this thread. I did in my previous post say that there are exceptions however which i would re-stress. I mean lets be honest.. have you ever seen a thread on boards or a conversation themed or titled.. "doormen in Ireland, great bunch of lads"

lighterman · 30-08-2014 7:18pm

Strumms wrote: »

I'm not altogether sure how sure Guards might appreciate the comparison of their profession to that of whom we speak of in this thread. I did in my previous post say that there are exceptions however which i would re-stress. I mean lets be honest.. have you ever seen a thread on boards or a conversation themed or titled.. "doormen in Ireland, great bunch of lads"

I'll just jump in here for a second. Have you actually seen many threads on boards praising anyone/thing. It is really part of the Irish culture to complain and put down. Seriously look at the threads

Jumboman · 31-08-2014 2:24am

Strumms wrote: »

I'm not altogether sure how sure Guards might appreciate the comparison of their profession to that of whom we speak of in this thread.

The gardas are far worse than bouncers IMO. Because they are a law unto themselves.

You have little or no comeback if a garda hits you.

AllthingsCP · 31-08-2014 4:02am

Strumms wrote: »

I'm not altogether sure how sure Guards might appreciate the comparison of their profession to that of whom we speak of in this thread. I did in my previous post say that there are exceptions however which i would re-stress. I mean lets be honest.. have you ever seen a thread on boards or a conversation themed or titled.. "doormen in Ireland, great bunch of lads"

Sure enough their are some here that bring down the industry, But many of the lads and ladies i have hired or worked with are highly trained in many areas of the sector and required fields, Door work is just a filler when other contracts are off. Nearly all have advance training in relating areas e.g Medical, Fire Control, Crowd Control. And have attended course that start at level 5 Year long and go on to college and most would attend CP course and other special course's.

So some night if your out and you get a smack or a fall and the only person around to help you is a chap getting 55euro for 9hrs work and to listen to total crap you will be thankful.

wotswattage · 02-09-2014 2:19am

Strumms wrote: »

To be honest I would never waste my time arguing with these Neanderthals. You have to remember that these types of individuals are doing the job they are doing for a reason and it isn't because they are overly intelligent, interested in your welfare, have a keen sense of customer focus or are capable of making sound and reasonable judgements they are generally hired goons at the lower levels of society, have limited skill sets and usefulness.. of course there is the odd exception to that.

Just go somewhere that you will be welcomed, treated civilly and where your custom will be appreciated. Do not waste your time justifying their existence it's part of them getting their kicks.

I left a nightclub with four friends when one of our friends who arrived later wasn't being allowed in for one of the usual reasons.. Well dressed, sober and a nice guy so could have been no issues... We all just walked and met up with him outside and went elsewhere.

You don't buy a car from a salesman who is an a$$hole, nor do you buy your paper in the shop where the staff have attitude problems, but people still love to give their money and business to pubs/clubs who employ problematic staff. I guess people want to be seen somewhere popular and will put up with being treated like crap as a trade off...

foggy_lad wrote: »

Don't forget the classic refusal reasons - Wearing runners/jeans/not wearing runners/jeans, in a group that is too large/on your own.

I dunno if those reasons are all legitimate but yes they are used regardless. My point was that a person could be refused for a number of legitimate reasons but not just because they are part of a minority.

Security at nightclubs

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