Episode 5x10: 'Mother's Mercy' - READERS thread

Mr Freeze · 15-06-2015 11:25pm

Just gonna say, that was sh1t and the whole season was poor except for Hardhome.

But the character assassination of Stannis, condensing the upcoming Battle of Ice to that few mins was muck. Unforgivable stuff from the writers.

I understand they have to cut stuff from the books to make the show, that's obvious, but cutting and replacing with it with rubbish is different.

Case & point: Dorne.

Disgusted.

I'd say I will record next season and watch it after I've read the book hopefully comes out. No way will I watch it ahead of the next book.

15-06-2015 11:28pm

podgemonster wrote: »

. Can Drogon speak English? Could he not have a nap without Dany nagging him.

lol lol
So true
He was injured like let him have a nap and stfu

awec · 15-06-2015 11:31pm

This season has been so poorly written.

A crap first 7 episodes where hardly anything happens, followed by a decent 8th. Back to a mediocre 9th episode before a 10th episode that was crammed!

Mr Freeze · 15-06-2015 11:34pm

And Jaime on the boat....

First thing I would be doing there is slitting Trystane's throat and drop kicking him off the boat, ask questions later.

awec · 15-06-2015 11:34pm

Jon doesn't die, you can tell from how it's written in the book.

And we don't actually know if Stannis is dead.

Mr Freeze · 15-06-2015 11:36pm

Theon and Sansa should be mush on the ground, at least in the book we were told several times that there is nearly 20 foot of snow in some spots.

In the show there was a few inches. :pac:

40ft drop, ouch!

Cantona's Collars · 15-06-2015 11:37pm

awec wrote: »

Jon doesn't die, you can tell from how it's written in the book.

And we don't actually know if Stannis is dead.

By dying,he's released from his vows to the Night's Watch,we've seen the red witch and resurrection before so it's no shock if he's back without the Watch and it's rules to hold him back.

15-06-2015 11:38pm

wolf: oh sam's in trouble I better help
jon's in trouble? na

Cantona's Collars · 15-06-2015 11:39pm

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Theon and Sansa should be mush on the ground, at least in the book we were told several times that there is nearly 20 foot of snow in some spots.

In the show there was a few inches. :pac:

40ft drop, ouch!

15-06-2015 11:40pm

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Theon and Sansa should be mush on the ground, at least in the book we were told several times that there is nearly 20 foot of snow in some spots.

In the show there was a few inches. :pac:

40ft drop, ouch!

they push girl off wall: splat
they jump off wall: it's all good

PopePalpatine · 15-06-2015 11:40pm

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Theon and Sansa should be mush on the ground, at least in the book we were told several times that there is nearly 20 foot of snow in some spots.

In the show there was a few inches. :pac:

40ft drop, ouch!

Come to think of it, it seems bizarre that a minute or so after pushing Myranda to her death that Reek/Theon and Sansa would jump from an even greater height, even if they do have snow to cushion their fall.

awec · 15-06-2015 11:41pm

zerks wrote: »

By dying,he's released from his vows to the Night's Watch,we've seen the red witch and resurrection before so it's no shock if he's back without the Watch and it's rules to hold him back.

That's my take on it too.

He'll come back, use the wildlings as an army and take Winterfell.

Cantona's Collars · 15-06-2015 11:41pm

Full summary with quotes here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3124072/Game-Thrones-fans-left-reeling-host-main-characters-killed-explosive-season-five-finale.html

Washington Irving · 15-06-2015 11:51pm

Much improved fan written arc for Sansa S5:

Ramsay or Roose finds a random girl who looks like Arya, and declares that she is Arya Stark. They send out invitations to all the northern Lords to attend their wedding.

Littlefinger catches wind that Ramsay will be marrying Arya. Sansa convinces Littlefinger to also attend the wedding, so they can rescue Arya. Littlefinger sees the benefits of having TWO Stark girls, while also destabilizing the Bolton claim to Winterfell, so he agrees. Sansa attends in disguise as Alayne Stone.

They show up, and Sansa sees that fArya is not Arya. She also sees Theon there, and Theon doesn't turn her in to Ramsay.

Sansa and Theon meet in the crypts. Sansa took Littlefinger's dagger with her, and threatens to cut Theon's throat. Theon begs for her to kill him and make it quick. She sees how broken he is, and spares him, but still hates him. Theon is taken aback by the dagger, and asks her how she got Ned's dagger. (Littlefinger kept it after betraying Ned)

Sansa, now not trusting Littlefinger, sneakily returns the dagger. Then Littlefinger is called away by Cersei. He tells Sansa he will be back soon, and that he is leaving some of the best Vale knights to protect her (led by Lyn Corbray), and a bag of gold to pay them off.

After hearing random Freys and Bolton soldiers bragging about the terrible things they did in the Red Wedding, she pays Lyn Corbray to kill them in the night (a ghost in Winterfell).

Various Northern Lords show up for the wedding. GreatJon is there.

GreatJon recognizes Sansa. He meets with her in secret. He tells her that "da Norf remembers" and he tells her that Rickon is still alive, and he sent him with Osha to Skaagos. GreatJon and Sansa plan a coup within Winterfell. Between his soldiers, and the Vale knights, and Stannis's forces outside, they could take out the Boltons.

The coup is interrupted by the Freys & Boltons accusing GreatJon of what Lyn Corbray did. Hell breaks out - and the factions start fighting. Sansa is visibly nervous, and flees. Ramsay sees her, and follows with a group of soldiers.
In the distraction of the fight, Theon sneaks fArya out (he's the only one trying to rescue her - yay redemption arc). But in the chaos, he bumps into Sansa. Ramsay sees them, and they flee up the tower (their only escape). Vale/Umber soldiers try to help, but Ramsay & the soldiers advance. Theon grabs both fArya and Sansa and jumps.

They are recovered in the snow storm, and brought to Stannis. Sansa introduces herself as Sansa of Winterfell... and she has a mission for Davos, the smuggler.

bur · 15-06-2015 11:56pm

Not having Jaime take control of the Lannister army I think is the biggest mistake they made this season. For non-book readers especially, there's so much exposition they could have naturally included in his scenes that would have fleshed out the current landscape of Westeros and reminded people about the Tully's, Frey's, BwB etc.

Going to be a huge disconnect if or when they go back to those characters now.

awec · 16-06-2015 12:01am

I'm going to have to re-read the books before WoW comes out.

The differences between the books and the TV series are now substantial enough to confuse me. It's been a while since I read them and I struggle to remember what story happens in the books vs the series.

Jofspring · 16-06-2015 12:06am

Ok this thread has gotten up to 8 pages already so no chance I am making my way through that so...

Once again I enjoyed the episode but it did feel like they had to try cram so much into the last episode. They wrapped up a lot which is good going forward I suppose.

Not going to pick through the episode.

The one thing that has really annoyed me is the amount of people that spoilered this episode all over social media. I am talking about Irish people that downloaded it this morning and just had to write up what happens in their status'. Absolute **** like. How would they feel if book readers had posted all that stuff that happened on social media weeks ago?

Mr.Prodston · 16-06-2015 12:07am

Washington Irving wrote: »

Much improved fan written arc for Sansa S5:

All well and good but needs more Wyman Manderly :pac:

Dyr · 16-06-2015 12:12am

tbh I've said it before in this thread, in an era where TV series have overtaken films when it comes to credibility GOT now seems to be determined to go back to the good old era of overblown illogical bull****, because drama and wow. I'm expecting Magnum PI to show up in a chopper and rescue the mother of moans

And Jon Snow, "I saw it, he raised an army of twenty thousand" my arse he did, there was about a hundred zombie eskimo extras on that shore. Might want to learn to count lord commander. How many times were you stabbed Jon? A millionty?

You'll still survive anyway, despite having a simple stabbing transformed into you being repeatedly skewered by 9 inch daggers off so many blokes that I was looking for the Brazzers logo in the corner, just like your sister can jump off castle walls. Go go gadget snow drift

Oh, and someone actually sounds like frank bleedin spencer now, I think its Sam.

Liam O · 16-06-2015 12:19am

Washington Irving wrote: »

Robb and Sana are never really mentioned or hinted at being wargs. Given the warging comes more into play later on it's undertandable given Lady, Robb and Grey Wind are dead.

Robb and Sansa were always the most Tully like children too, while the rest took more after Starks. Could be relevant.

Robb's warging might not have been mentioned but it was definitely very prevalent. It was how he won all his battles. Having a fast, stealthy mode of scouting with great night vision would have been how he gave Tywin's armies the runaround.

Washington Irving · 16-06-2015 12:23am

Jofspring wrote: »

Ok this thread has gotten up to 8 pages already so no chance I am making my way through that so...

Once again I enjoyed the episode but it did feel like they had to try cram so much into the last episode. They wrapped up a lot which is good going forward I suppose.

Not going to pick through the episode.

The one thing that has really annoyed me is the amount of people that spoilered this episode all over social media. I am talking about Irish people that downloaded it this morning and just had to write up what happens in their status'. Absolute **** like. How would they feel if book readers had posted all that stuff that happened on social media weeks ago?

Just hit fourth page #40PPPMasterrace

thehairyone · 16-06-2015 12:46am

I havnt read the whole thread so not sure if any of this has been mentioned.

Myrcella dying on the boat was very cheap, i wonder did the dorne viper woman give bronn an antidote when she whispered that horrible/cheesey line in his ear. At this stage in the books myrcella has her ear cut off, maybe an attempt on her life will play the same role as the missing ear will in the books.

The cut when brienne was about to kill stannis was very suspicious aswell. very much like the books where the scene cuts when brienne was about to be hanged by lady stoneheart. brienne says a word and it looks like she is spared. both scenes in (in the show and book) are based around oath keeping. i wonder will brieene spare stannis.

Still unsure as to why the red witch left stannis. they have been in tough situations before and the red god has delivered. its pretty obvious that she will resurrect jon. i also find it odd that ghost appeared in the last episode (or was it the one before that?) for the first time in what feels like a couple of seasons. seems to me that jon will warg into ghost and the red witch will revive him.

Jelle1880 · 16-06-2015 4:21am

Melissandre left because I think she genuinely believed that she was wrong about Stannis.

First she makes him burn her daughter, then the snow melts but that's immediately followed by mass desertion of his army leaving him weak. I think she realises he is not the chosen.

I think she'll resurrect Jon too.

Jelle1880 · 16-06-2015 4:21am

Melissandre left because I think she genuinely believed that she was wrong about Stannis.

First she makes him burn her daughter, then the snow melts but that's immediately followed by mass desertion of his army leaving him weak. I think she realises he is not the chosen.

I think she'll resurrect Jon too.

Daith · 16-06-2015 8:30am

In the books its mentioned that the resurrection by a Red Priest means the person loses a little bit of themselves? I think that's the reason why people want Jon-Ghost-Jon so Mel can raise Jon but he's his whole self.

Was that mentioned in the TV show? If not then yeah a straight up res.

Sansa should have used some guile to get out of something. I'm too sure where she can go now? The Wall? The Vale? Riverlands? I enjoyed the samples from the new book more than the TV show.

Sleepy · 16-06-2015 8:32am

podgemonster wrote: »

Finally one of the finest scenes of the season was Cersei's atonement. Her initial confession has lashings of dishonesty and the Lena Headleys subtly lets us know that she really hasn't learned any thing at that moment. The scene needed to be long to translate Cersei decent to humility. Her tiny smirk to the Septa during her scrubbing is wiped when her hair is cut, she composes herself and walks Naked to the Red Keep without trying to cover her bits like the previous High Septon. She begins determined and strong and eventually becomes a broken scared women covered in blood, filth and tears. It was poetic and one that may earn Lena an award.

I'll comment on the rest of the episode later but if Headley wins an award for this scene I'll be pretty pissed off tbh. Her insistence on a body double for a scene she's had to have known was coming for years, and in a scene that, for once, actually required nudity was a real case of a star being pandered to imo. Maybe if the production team hadn't had to fork out for the CGI used here, they could have hired a competent second unit to film the Dorne scenes or a decent writer to give this season's script the final polish it so badly needed.

Teyla Emmagan · 16-06-2015 8:41am

Rubbish, no one should have to be naked if they don't want to. And very few people want to spend 3 days standing around in the nip with 200 slobbering extras trying to take selfies of themselves and your bits. The woman has a no nudity clause as well apparently so a body double was always on the cards.

Can't quote on my phone.

MrWalsh · 16-06-2015 8:45am

Sleepy wrote: »

Her insistence on a body double for a scene she's had to have known was coming for years, and in a scene that, for once, actually required nudity was a real case of a star being pandered to imo.

How do you know she insisted on a body double?

And even if she did, so what? People are entitled to refuse to do nudity if they wish.

Sleepy · 16-06-2015 8:52am

Any actress insisting on a no nudity clause when playing Cersei Lannister was not prepared to do her job and shouldn't have been hired in the first place. Her refusal to do what she's being paid very well to do cost the production both the wages of the body double and the cost of the CGI. On a show that's already struggling so heavily with it's budget, kowtowing to such prudishness is pretty unforgiveable imo.

I'm not someone whinging that I didn't get to see Lena Headley naked, she's done nude scenes plenty of times before, and if I'm honest, the body double had a nicer figure than her in my opinion. tbh, rather too nice, if they had to cast a body double they should've stuck to the books reference points of stretch marks and sagging breasts imo. It just pisses me off to see such unnecessary wasting of money in a series that's starting to be ruined by poor decisions from the show-runners.

MrWalsh · 16-06-2015 9:02am

Sleepy wrote: »

Any actress insisting on a no nudity clause when playing Cersei Lannister was not prepared to do her job and shouldn't have been hired in the first place. Her refusal to do what she's being paid very well to do cost the production both the wages of the body double and the cost of the CGI. On a show that's already struggling so heavily with it's budget, kowtowing to such prudishness is pretty unforgiveable imo.

I'm not someone whinging that I didn't get to see Lena Headley naked, she's done nude scenes plenty of times before, and if I'm honest, the body double had a nicer figure than her in my opinion. tbh, rather too nice, if they had to cast a body double they should've stuck to the books reference points of stretch marks and sagging breasts imo. It just pisses me off to see such unnecessary wasting of money in a series that's starting to be ruined by poor decisions from the show-runners.

Sleepy I normally enjoy your posts on GoT but the above just comes off as throwing toys out of the pram tbh. Very petty. I cant see how it matters if its a body double or not. The scene worked and thats all that matters. Im unconcerned whose particular body it was.

PopePalpatine · 16-06-2015 9:10am

Wasn't Lena Headley pregnant when they filmed the walk of shame?

Sleepy · 16-06-2015 9:25am

MrWalsh wrote: »

Sleepy I normally enjoy your posts on GoT but the above just comes off as throwing toys out of the pram tbh. Very petty. I cant see how it matters if its a body double or not. The scene worked and thats all that matters. Im unconcerned whose particular body it was.

It only matters that it was a body double because it necessitated the use of CGI, something that costs tens of thousands per second of screen time.

That scene worked quite well, but I think we can all agree that lots of scenes this season haven't and budget is one of the most cited excuses for many of the mis-steps this season and I can't help but wonder if they had simply hired a less prudish actress in the first place, or even if they'd used the more classic route of flesh coloured underwear and clever camera angles, could the money wasted to protect Headley's blushes have saved other parts of this season.

SparklersJo · 16-06-2015 9:29am

It's only a small thing - but I couldn't see, what was it that Jon saw when he went over to the group of Night's Watch lads all huddled around something? It looked like something painted on a wooden sign, but I couldn't read what it was, it was too dark. Was it significant? Anyone catch what it was?

connemara man · 16-06-2015 9:34am

SparklersJo wrote: »

It's only a small thing - but I couldn't see, what was it that Jon saw when he went over to the group of Night's Watch lads all huddled around something? It looked like something painted on a wooden sign, but I couldn't read what it was, it was too dark. Was it significant? Anyone catch what it was?

Traitor was written on it

CptMackey · 16-06-2015 9:34am

SparklersJo wrote: »

It's only a small thing - but I couldn't see, what was it that Jon saw when he went over to the group of Night's Watch lads all huddled around something? It looked like something painted on a wooden sign, but I couldn't read what it was, it was too dark. Was it significant? Anyone catch what it was?

It was the word traitor on a piece of wood

MrWalsh · 16-06-2015 9:43am

Sleepy wrote: »

I think we can all agree that lots of scenes this season haven't and budget is one of the most cited excuses for many of the mis-steps this season and I can't help but wonder if they had simply hired a less prudish actress in the first place, or even if they'd used the more classic route of flesh coloured underwear and clever camera angles, could the money wasted to protect Headley's blushes have saved other parts of this season.

This is a bit coulda woulda shoulda.

I cant saw Ive seen any "excuses" for anything this season? Im not really sure what you are referring to - are you saying the producers are apologising after the fact for particular episodes - despite this being a hugely successful production?

I dont agree that lots of scenes this season didnt work. A handful over 10 episodes, but more than made up for with the rest IMO.

Why do you think an actress invoking a non nudity clause is about prudishness? Theres lots a reasons an actor or actress doesnt do nudity. I think its important to respect the choice of anyone who doesnt want to do it. I dont have to get my kit off when I go to work and frankly if I did Id be looking for a different job!

Perhaps if theyd saved money on this scene they would have spent it on another scene that people moan unnecessarily about?

If people dont enjoy the show then, switch it off?

RobbingBandit · 16-06-2015 9:46am

It the book the ides happened after the wildlings had been sent off from Castle Black. Wonder what Tormund will do now.

Mr Freeze · 16-06-2015 9:47am

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Wasn't Lena Headley pregnant when they filmed the walk of shame?

I've seen other people say that same.

Maybe she was.

I think if she didn't or couldn't to the nude scene then fine, you can use a double for some distant shots & rear shots and film Lena up close like they did for her reaction, etc.

There was no need for the constant full frontal shots in my opinion. We got the message. She is naked.

Mr Freeze · 16-06-2015 9:51am

MrWalsh wrote: »

I dont agree that lots of scenes this season didnt work. A handful over 10 episodes, but more than made up for with the rest IMO.
.
.
If people dont enjoy the show then, switch it off?

I think loads didn't work this season, the more they veered from the book the worse the scenes and dialogue got.

I won't be watching next season as it airs, I will wait for the book, be that 2016 or 2017.

I think a lot of people are going to switch off. Not a huge amount that HBO would be worried, but the figures won't be as big next season.

Daith · 16-06-2015 9:51am

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I think if she didn't or couldn't to the nude scene then fine, you can use a double for some distant shots & rear shots and film Lena up close like they did for her reaction, etc.

Then you would have another group of people complaining that they

"completely toned down that scene from the books and jesus I'm never watching this show again."

MrWalsh · 16-06-2015 9:52am

Daith wrote: »

Then you would have another group of people complaining that they

"completely toned down that scene from the books and jesus I'm never watching this show again."

As far as I can tell people complain no matter what they do. Some people should just stop watching the show. If it infuriates you so much that you are complaining every episode - then why watch it? There are many posters in this forum who do nothing but complain.

Lovely Bloke · 16-06-2015 9:54am

MrWalsh wrote: »

If it infuriates you so much that you are complaining every episode - then why watch it? There are many posters in this forum who do nothing but complain.

Welcome to the internet.

Wait for the True Detective thread next week, it's gonna be fun, fun, fun.

"This is not a good as last season, because of this, this and this"

PopePalpatine · 16-06-2015 9:56am

I've just gone over the Dorne plotline from the books - a plot to put Myrcella on the throne would have been far more compelling than the mangled mess that took its place.

Daith · 16-06-2015 10:04am

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I've just gone over the Dorne plotline from the books - a plot to put Myrcella on the throne would have been far more compelling than the mangled mess that took its place.

It doesn't exactly lead anywhere does it though?

The Dorne plot from the show has been a mess though.

razorblunt · 16-06-2015 10:09am

Daith wrote: »

In the books its mentioned that the resurrection by a Red Priest means the person loses a little bit of themselves? I think that's the reason why people want Jon-Ghost-Jon so Mel can raise Jon but he's his whole self.

Was that mentioned in the TV show? If not then yeah a straight up res.

Sansa should have used some guile to get out of something. I'm too sure where she can go now? The Wall? The Vale? Riverlands? I enjoyed the samples from the new book more than the TV show.

Kill the boy!

Jofspring · 16-06-2015 10:26am

Seen it mentioned about Ghost not appearing. I found that extremely strange. All through the show they have shown the direwolves to have like a sixth sense of when the stark kids are in trouble and always intervene but this time nothing. Even if they had panned to ghost locked up or something it would have at least nipped that in the bud.

Daith · 16-06-2015 10:31am

Jofspring wrote: »

Seen it mentioned about Ghost not appearing. I found that extremely strange. All through the show they have shown the direwolves to have like a sixth sense of when the stark kids are in trouble and always intervene but this time nothing. Even if they had panned to ghost locked up or something it would have at least nipped that in the bud.

He should have howled over the scenes of Jon's blood.

chanelfreak · 16-06-2015 10:33am

Lena Headley was definitely pregnant when they filmed Cersei's walk of shame, so it's pretty obvious why she used a body double - I know D&D have gone completely off plan compared to the novel, but a pregnant Cersei would have been a step too far IMO.

Hyzepher · 16-06-2015 10:43am

RobbingBandit wrote: »

It the book the ides happened after the wildlings had been sent off from Castle Black. Wonder what Tormund will do now.

The wildings have left Castle Black

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 16-06-2015 10:46am

Anyone else bothered by the Arya face thing. Did she just take a face from the rack and slap it on? Seems a bit too easy. That whole plot line seems unnecessarily riddly and complex.

Episode 5x10: 'Mother's Mercy' - READERS thread

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