need an IRISH passport to buy alcohol??

BrendaN_f · 27-10-2012 5:20pm #1

so i have 2 passports, 1 irish 1 non-irish. i use the non-irish one as i.d since i rarely use it and wouldn't be a big deal to lose.

anyway, was in dunnes last night trying to buy some drink, and the lady behind the counter refused to accept my passport as valid i.d. she claimed they can only accept age cards or IRISH passports (by order of the gardai, no less).

im just curious as to how this could possibly be legal??

GRMA · 27-10-2012 5:22pm

She was a retard talking sh!te.

kirving · 27-10-2012 5:23pm

Some countries might not have as tight control over the issuing of passports as Ireland has.

dodderangler · 27-10-2012 5:25pm

Maybe she thinks you can't handle the drink cuz ur not Irish?

TheBody · 27-10-2012 5:25pm

Think Tesco have a similar policy.

WoollyRedHat · 27-10-2012 5:28pm

BrendaN_f wrote: »

so i have 2 passports, 1 irish 1 non-irish. i use the non-irish one as i.d since i rarely use it and wouldn't be a big deal to lose.

anyway, was in dunnes last night trying to buy some drink, and the lady behind the counter refused to accept my passport as valid i.d. she claimed they can only accept age cards or IRISH passports (by order of the gardai, no less).

im just curious as to how this could possibly be legal??

That's discrimination as far as I can see.

27-10-2012 5:28pm

There's some places that won't even accept an Irish passport, only the Garda Age Card, so in theory they won't sell alcohol to non-residents.

antodeco · 27-10-2012 5:30pm

Legally, passports are travel documents used for identification for travel purposes. It's actually illegal to carry your passport around with you, as it's property of the state. Most retailers only accept Age Cards because that is all they need to accept. After that, it's Drivers Licence.

tuxy · 27-10-2012 5:35pm

BrendaN_f wrote: »

im just curious as to how this could possibly be legal??

Shops are under no obligation to serve you so I don't see why it would be illegal.

RGDATA! · 27-10-2012 5:35pm

antodeco wrote: »

It's actually illegal to carry your passport around with you, as it's property of the state.

Are you sure about that, because it sounds like BS? What law makes it illegal?

ladysarastro · 27-10-2012 5:39pm

antodeco wrote: »

Legally, passports are travel documents used for identification for travel purposes. It's actually illegal to carry your passport around with you, as it's property of the state. Most retailers only accept Age Cards because that is all they need to accept. After that, it's Drivers Licence.

Dunnes won't take drivers licence as they are issued from the age of 17 and too easily faked. Garda id and passport. She should of took your non irish passport though assuming it wasn't a crayon drawing of you saying "me = 18". Quitely call a manager and you would of been sorted

dlofnep · 27-10-2012 5:41pm

Passports have an international standard. She was a twat.

antodeco · 27-10-2012 5:41pm

RGDATA! wrote: »

Are you sure about that, because it sounds like BS? What law makes it illegal?

Trying tI find the law. I know I was told by a Garda before that if I needed my passport for ID purposes they would photocopy it and certify it to be genuine (signed and stamped) and that it could only be in black and white

monkeypants · 27-10-2012 5:50pm

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Some countries might not have as tight control over the issuing of passports as Ireland has.

Has Ireland not had a couple of scandals regarding passports being sold?

questionmark? · 27-10-2012 5:50pm

tuxy wrote: »

Shops are under no obligation to serve you so I don't see why it would be illegal.

They are not obliged to serve anyone but to serve one person and not another based on their nationality is discrimination.

27-10-2012 5:52pm

antodeco wrote: »

Trying tI find the law. I know I was told by a Garda before that if I needed my passport for ID purposes they would photocopy it and certify it to be genuine (signed and stamped) and that it could only be in black and white

Turns out some Gardai do have a sense of humour.

shopaholic01 · 27-10-2012 5:54pm

antodeco wrote: »

Trying tI find the law. I know I was told by a Garda before that if I needed my passport for ID purposes they would photocopy it and certify it to be genuine (signed and stamped) and that it could only be in black and white

Imagine being arrested for being in possession of a valid passport:D.

Fromthetrees · 27-10-2012 6:43pm

I was asked for id months ago in the offie and I got really bothered by it, ran home crying and everything, wrote the name of the place into my banned list and put the name of the person on my hate list, went through six boxes of tissues that night, told my mom about how upset I was and she told me it would be alright and she made me a cup of warm milk and read me a story, I had to wear my night time nappies to bed in case I had a toilet accident I was so annoyed by it. :mad:

I may not be 18 years of age.

seamus · 27-10-2012 6:56pm

It's not illegal nor discrimination. You can't expect a local shop to accept I.D. issued somewhere else which they have no way of verifying. There's a good risk that someone could present ID claiming to be a passport from some obscure country that's totally fake.

It's nothing to do with nationality. It's to do with quality of ID. If you rocked up with your Irish driving licence you'd be refused too.

Honestly, the lengths some people go to searching for things to get offended about.

mikemac1 · 27-10-2012 7:01pm

monkeypants wrote: »

Has Ireland not had a couple of scandals regarding passports being sold?

Ah not since the 1980's.

The government used to sell them to millionaires

BattleCorp · 27-10-2012 7:10pm

antodeco wrote: »

. Most retailers only accept Age Cards because that is all they need to accept. After that, it's Drivers Licence.

Where in legislation does it say that this is the only form of ID that has to be accepted?

Sounds crap to me.

RADIUS · 27-10-2012 7:23pm

I would understand if it was a passport from Zimbabwe or the like but if it was an EU passport surely it has legal status as a valid a form of photo ID.

Assassin saphir · 27-10-2012 7:28pm

Staff in off licences and shops can loose their job, be fined up to 5k and get a criminal record for serving someone under age. The store can also be closed for up to 30 days. This is regularly checked by the guards sending in an underage person.

The reason for not accepting non irish passports is there is no way of verifying its genuine if from another country. It's not about discrimination.

Personally I'm not going to risk my job, a fine and the record just so someone can have their 6 cans of Dutch gold.

seamus · 27-10-2012 7:29pm

RADIUS wrote: »

I would understand if it was a passport from Zimbabwe or the like but if it was an EU passport surely it has legal status as a valid a form of photo ID.

It has legal status as a valid form of ID for the purposes of travel between jurisdictions.

It does not have legal status as a form of ID for any other purpose. It has always been this way.

aujopimur · 27-10-2012 7:32pm

The only acceptable ID for the purchase of alchohol is Garda age card, nothing else.

irishgirl19 · 27-10-2012 7:35pm

sure my local tesco won't even take a passport only that age card

seamus · 27-10-2012 7:43pm

It's worth noting that there has been something of a crackdown on this and off licences have been told that the only form of ID which can be presented in defence of selling alcohol to a minor are Garda Age Card or Irish passport.

That is, if a retailer is caught selling alcohol to an underager, unless they can say that they asked for an age card or an Irish passport, then they have no excuse. Previously it was less clear and claiming that you saw any form of ID could be used as a defence.

It's a huge change obviously from what we're used to. Gone are the days when simply being able to recite your incorrect birth date would be accepted by an off licence.

BrendaN_f · 27-10-2012 8:57pm

seamus wrote: »

It's not illegal nor discrimination. You can't expect a local shop to accept I.D. issued somewhere else which they have no way of verifying. There's a good risk that someone could present ID claiming to be a passport from some obscure country that's totally fake.

It's nothing to do with nationality. It's to do with quality of ID. If you rocked up with your Irish driving licence you'd be refused too.

Honestly, the lengths some people go to searching for things to get offended about.

you clealry have a bone to pick, as no where in my post did i say or even imply that i was offended. and your average person has no idea how to verify a passport from any country, unless they've done some research

MadsL · 27-10-2012 9:19pm

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Some countries might not have as tight control over the issuing of passports as Ireland has.

Such as?

seamus wrote: »

It's not illegal nor discrimination. You can't expect a local shop to accept I.D. issued somewhere else which they have no way of verifying. There's a good risk that someone could present ID claiming to be a passport from some obscure country that's totally fake.

Passports are an international standard document.

RADIUS wrote: »

I would understand if it was a passport from Zimbabwe or the like but if it was an EU passport surely it has legal status as a valid a form of photo ID.

Are Zimbabwean passports inferior in some way to Irish ones?

seamus wrote: »

It's worth noting that there has been something of a crackdown on this and off licences have been told that the only form of ID which can be presented in defence of selling alcohol to a minor are Garda Age Card or Irish passport.

(4) In any proceedings against a person for a contravention of subsection (1) or (2) of this section, it shall be a defence for such person to prove that the person in respect of whom the charge is brought produced to him an age card relating to such person or that he had other reasonable grounds for believing that such person was over the age of 18 years, or, if the person is charged with permitting another person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor contrary to the said subsection (1) or (2), to prove that an age card was produced by the person concerned to that other person or that that other person had other reasonable grounds for believing as aforesaid.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1988/en/act/pub/0016/sec0031.html#sec31

Has the law changed?

That is, if a retailer is caught selling alcohol to an underager, unless they can say that they asked for an age card or an Irish passport, then they have no excuse. Previously it was less clear and claiming that you saw any form of ID could be used as a defence.

It's a huge change obviously from what we're used to. Gone are the days when simply being able to recite your incorrect birth date would be accepted by an off licence.

Again what law has changed?

Miss Lockhart · 27-10-2012 9:23pm

So can tourists not buy alcohol then?

Also, Age Cards appear to be fairly easily faked - or it seems easier to get one with incorrect (earlier) date of birth on it. I know of several people who have used an older sibling's birth cert to get one in their name.

OkayWhatever · 27-10-2012 9:26pm

This wasn't Dunnes in St.Stephen's Green,was it?

I went through some crap there trying to get drink a while back, and so have some of my friends.

flyguy · 27-10-2012 9:36pm

For all the poster who think it's fine to refuse a non-irish passport.
I assume you're all ok with never being able to buy alcohol outside of the ROI.
So no more drinking on your holidays now you hear! What you don't agree? Well if you don't have a Spanish, UK or whatever country your visiting local passport why would they be obliged to sell you alcohol?

Shane-KornSpace · 27-10-2012 9:37pm

Theyre legally not obliged to sell you anything. Regardless of the ID you provide.
If they dont want to sell you anything, they dont have to.

arodabomb · 27-10-2012 9:42pm

seamus wrote: »

It's a huge change obviously from what we're used to. Gone are the days when simply being able to recite your incorrect birth date would be accepted by an off licence.

You forgot to mention star signs. Back in the day those cheeky bouncers would know all the star signs and try and catch you out.

mikemac1 · 27-10-2012 9:45pm

I don't know why that poster is going back to 1988

Picking and choosing to suit an argument?

You want info you go to the most recent one in 2003

Here is a nice, easy to read list

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section ‘age document’ means a document containing a photograph of the person in respect of whom it was issued and information that enables the age of the person to be determined and being one of the following documents relating to a person referred to in that subsection:

(a) an age card referred to in section 40 of this Act,

(b) a passport,

(c) an identity card issued by a member state of the European Communities,

(d) a driver licence, or

(e) a document issued by a body, and in a form, prescribed by regulations made by the Minister.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0031/print.html#sec15

flyguy · 27-10-2012 9:46pm

Wonder what the EU would say about an Irish law/rule to only accept an Irish passport as a valid ID and not one of the other EU member states. I think there's some EU law that does not allow it...

stevenmu · 27-10-2012 10:20pm

BrendaN_f wrote: »

you clealry have a bone to pick, as no where in my post did i say or even imply that i was offended. and your average person has no idea how to verify a passport from any country, unless they've done some research

Another poster claimed that it was discrimination.

entropi · 27-10-2012 10:24pm

OkayWhatever wrote: »

This wasn't Dunnes in St.Stephen's Green,was it?

I went through some crap there trying to get drink a while back, and so have some of my friends.

I went in there about two years ago with two friends who were buying drink before a gig, I wasnt drinking or even going to the gig. I got asked for a form of i.d. for some reason

I wouldnt mind much, but I was a few years older than my friends, who were a few years over the legal age!

OkayWhatever · 27-10-2012 10:29pm

Master of Nothing wrote: »

I went in there about two years ago with two friends who were buying drink before a gig, I wasnt drinking or even going to the gig. I got asked for a form of i.d. for some reason

I wouldnt mind much, but I was a few years older than my friends, who were a few years over the legal age!

Yeah,same kinda sitch with me..! I wasn't buying drink just went in with my 2 friends, and only 1 of them was buying drink! She didn't get served because I didn't have I.D! Was really irritating,and as embarassing as it is now, we called consumer association and got info and went back in and ended up getting her naggin

Pipmae · 27-10-2012 10:33pm

I use Tesco online and whenever my aupair takes in the delivery she is asked for ID. She uses her American passport and she is allowed to take in the alcohol. She hasn't been refused yet and I do a lot of Tesco online shopping and I order alcohol regularly.:D (She is 23 BTW but a young looking 23 obviously).

MadsL · 27-10-2012 10:34pm

seamus wrote: »

It has legal status as a valid form of ID for the purposes of travel between jurisdictions.

It does not have legal status as a form of ID for any other purpose. It has always been this way.

It has legal status to obtain an age card.

4. (1) The applicant shall present in person the official application form provided to him or her by the issuing body under paragraph (7) of Regulation 3 to a member of the Garda Síochána at the Garda Síochána station for the area in which the applicant normally resides, sign the form in the presence of the member and provide to the member—

(a) his or her
(i) birth certificate,
(ii) valid passport, or
(iii) Garda National Immigration Bureau card,
(b) at least one other document which confirms his or her identity, and
(c) a recent passport size photograph of his or her head and shoulders.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/si/0652.html

ProudDUB · 27-10-2012 10:34pm

Everyone knows what an Irish passport looks like, or is supposed to look like. Any one with lap top, access to Photoshop & a decent printer could do themselves up a passport for The Peoples Republic of Durkadurkstan & who here could here could tell if it was the real thing or not? I think that this is more a common sense approach to stopping juveniles from buying booze with fake documents than it is out right discrimination against non nationals.

MadsL · 27-10-2012 10:43pm

ProudDUB wrote: »

Everyone knows what an Irish passport looks like, or is supposed to look like. Any one with lap top, access to Photoshop & a decent printer could do themselves up a passport for The Peoples Republic of Durkadurkstan & who here could here could tell if it was the real thing or not? I think that this is more a common sense approach to stopping juveniles from buying booze with fake documents than it is out right discrimination against non nationals.

That's some trouble to go to just to buy drink.

The person selling drink does not have to show that they verified the document. (How do you verify an Irish passport btw?). Just that they have reasonable grounds to believe that the person was over 18.

There are plenty of fake Garda ID cards going around - should the shop assistant be held accountable for not "verifying" one? Would you be happy to wait in line whilst they call the Gardai for every alcohol transaction?

non-nationals? Did you mean foreign nationals since they have a passport?

27-10-2012 10:57pm

seamus wrote: »

It's not illegal nor discrimination. You can't expect a local shop to accept I.D. issued somewhere else which they have no way of verifying. There's a good risk that someone could present ID claiming to be a passport from some obscure country that's totally fake.

It's nothing to do with nationality. It's to do with quality of ID. If you rocked up with your Irish driving licence you'd be refused too.

Honestly, the lengths some people go to searching for things to get offended about.

I don't think it's silly to be offended/annoyed at all. I think it's ridiculous to ask for only Irish passports. I don't have an Irish passport and I no longer live in Ireland. Do you think it's fine that when I go back to visit, I'm technically not allowed to buy alcohol? That's ridiculous. Would you be fine with coming to Spain on holiday and being told only Spanish nationals and residents are allowed to buy booze?

Molloys Clondalkin · 27-10-2012 11:04pm

what utter nonsence is going on in this thread!!
Op sit down and calmly write a nicley worded email to dunnes head office
explain to them you have always carried your passport as proof of id and were extremely put out by not being able to shop with convienience in thier store.
The policy in dunnes is age card or passport only doesnt matter which country the passport comes from as someone rightly pointed out the could be a tourist or someone from oh lets say poland who lives here with oh lets say a polish driving licence or polish passport maybe.???
Really some people should go to the hardware shop and buy a bottle of cop on.

Hal Decks · 27-10-2012 11:31pm

antodeco wrote: »

......t's actually illegal to carry your passport around with you ............

Dumbest post of the week, surely?

Think how stupid the quoted statement is?

You have a passport but its illegal to carry it with you?

Feathers · 28-10-2012 12:03am

Assassin saphir wrote: »

Staff in off licences and shops can loose their job, be fined up to 5k and get a criminal record for serving someone under age. The store can also be closed for up to 30 days. This is regularly checked by the guards sending in an underage person.

The reason for not accepting non irish passports is there is no way of verifying its genuine if from another country. It's not about discrimination.

Personally I'm not going to risk my job, a fine and the record just so someone can have their 6 cans of Dutch gold.

Is that not entrapment? (If there's a fake ID involved? Otherwise, if the cops just send in kids with no ID, it'd be no reason to refuse a non-Irish passport)

El Weirdo · 28-10-2012 12:05am

Pipmae wrote: »

I use Tesco online and whenever my aupair takes in the delivery she is asked for ID. She uses her American passport and she is allowed to take in the alcohol. She hasn't been refused yet and I do a lot of Tesco online shopping and I order alcohol regularly.:D (She is 23 BTW but a young looking 23 obviously).

I think I've seen this film.

Adyx · 28-10-2012 12:28am

Feathers wrote: »

Is that not entrapment? (If there's a fake ID involved? Otherwise, if the cops just send in kids with no ID, it'd be no reason to refuse a non-Irish passport)

Provision for Gardai to use people aged between 15 and 18 specifically for this purpose is included in the Intoxicating Liquor Act.

As pointed out earlier it doesn't matter what proof of age you have; they are under no obligation to serve you and it's not discrimination unless it can be proved that the op was refused purely on the basis of their nationality. A foreign passport is not grounds for discrimination.

Feathers · 28-10-2012 12:48am

Adyx wrote: »

Provision for Gardai to use people aged between 15 and 18 specifically for this purpose is included in the Intoxicating Liquor Act.

As pointed out earlier it doesn't matter what proof of age you have; they are under no obligation to serve you and it's not discrimination unless it can be proved that the op was refused purely on the basis of their nationality. A foreign passport is not grounds for discrimination.

The point I was addressing was that someone mentioned licensees have to be wary as the cops run spot checks, and that this is a reason they mightn't take foreign passports. I wasn't saying they were being discriminated against.

Is there a provision in the act for the Gardaí to send in kids with fake IDs of different quality to see how well they stand up? There's surely a big difference between checking if a 17 year old is asked for an ID at all vs persuading a licensee that a fake ID is genuine, then prosecuting him.

Unless Gardaí are doing the second, spot checks wouldn't be a reason to refuse foreign passports.

Feathers · 28-10-2012 12:56am

seamus wrote: »

It's worth noting that there has been something of a crackdown on this and off licences have been told that the only form of ID which can be presented in defence of selling alcohol to a minor are Garda Age Card or Irish passport.

That is, if a retailer is caught selling alcohol to an underager, unless they can say that they asked for an age card or an Irish passport, then they have no excuse. Previously it was less clear and claiming that you saw any form of ID could be used as a defence.

It's a huge change obviously from what we're used to. Gone are the days when simply being able to recite your incorrect birth date would be accepted by an off licence.

Would you have a link for this? The below is from the 2003 act, section 15:

Intoxicating Liquor Act wrote:

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section ‘age document’ means a document containing a photograph of the person in respect of whom it was issued and information that enables the age of the person to be determined and being one of the following documents relating to a person referred to in that subsection:

(a) an age card referred to in section 40 of this Act,

(b) a passport,

(c) an identity card issued by a member state of the European Communities,

(d) a driver licence, or

(e) a document issued by a body, and in a form, prescribed by regulations made by the Minister.

need an IRISH passport to buy alcohol??

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