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Greens: Dublin needs a second unified bus station now

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    #32
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    A bus station in O'Connell St or similar is not that crazy when you look at these:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_George_Square_busway_station
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Street_bus_station


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    #33
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users Posts: 7,847 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    ballooba wrote: »
    A bus station in O'Connell St or similar is not that crazy when you look at these:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_George_Square_busway_station
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Street_bus_station
    to be honest neither of those are terminius stations for intercity busses like busaras is.


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    #34
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    I know there would a hole lots of objections too this but if we were really desprate we could always bulldoze merrion square or st.stephens green and turn it into a bus station sure busaras was built at the expence of some lovely georgian houses


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    #35
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    The city centre is suffering with buses being held up too me it would too trial banning cars from the centre it could be buses, taxis, emergancy vehicles and delivery trucks only. If you lived near no direct city centre bus route or the luas and dart db or a private contractor could set up park and ride car parks a perfect example would be the old montrose hotel car park. It might work if it was done correctly.


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    #36
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    The city centre is suffering with buses being held up too me it would too trial banning cars from the centre it could be buses, taxis, emergancy vehicles and delivery trucks only. If you lived near no direct city centre bus route or the luas and dart db or a private contractor could set up park and ride car parks a perfect example would be the old montrose hotel car park. It might work if it was done correctly.


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    #37
    Clare_Culchie
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Clare_Culchie


    I've suggested elsewhere (The Journal) so sorry for repeating myself...

    There's a substantial patch of unused, tarmac'ed free space to the immediate East of the O2 in The Point Village (which is NAMA'ed, I believe). This site is ample for building a private bus terminal. As an Intermodal Hub, it would allow for the easy transfer of passengers between Dublin Port (by shuttle-bus), Dublin Airport (by shuttle-bus via Dublin Port Tunnel), Dublin City (by Luas), Connolly and Heuston Railway Stations and Busáras (by Luas) and other towns and cities (M1-9 traffic around the M50 and through Dublin Port Tunnel, M11 traffic via East-Link).

    A terminus on this site would allow scheduled intercity bus services to avoid Dublin City traffic entirely, particularly along the quays. The existing infrastructure Gibson Hotel, Odeon Cinema, Point Village Shopping Centre (currently almost empty), a large multi-storey car-park would provide the shelter and facilities necessary for transiting passengers. A drivers' rest-stop and restaurant could be provided to incentivise the companies to use the terminus (as Mother Hubbards and Harry's of Kinnegad used to do in days past).

    Regular shuttle-services from this site to Dublin Airport would negate the need for private buses to continue to Dublin Airport.

    During concerts, certain parking bays could be used by the private-hire bus companies to allow concert-goers alight safely before parking elsewhere. This may well assist in traffic-management during events at the O2.

    This site is already primed for such a role. Aside from minor ground-work (construction of parking bays, fixed canopy walkways to Luas and Point Village Centre, for example), there's very little else required to make this work.


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    #38
    LivelineDipso
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LivelineDipso


    Broadstone is the obvious choice when the Luas Bx is completed.


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    #39
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,475 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    etchyed wrote: »
    You want to turn O'Connell Street into a coach park? Jesus wept.

    yep, why not. the usage it currently get isn't the most efficient, aside from being a massive throughway for private traffic it's a badly laid out serious of bus stops currently, a disaster of a taxi rank and a huge amount of wasted space in the middle whilst pedestrians are marginalised for the sake of extra traffic lanes.

    banning private vehicle and at the same time creating a bus hub would make it far more vibrant and usefull to the city.


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    #40
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Clare_Culchie, too far out, people don't want to have the extra expense and time to transfer on the Luas back into town.

    Also the majority of bus services are coming in from the west side of Ireland so most would be going along the quays anyway to get there.

    Putting the bus station in Connollys car park is a far better idea then this. I still think Connolly is a little too far from O'Connell St. but at least it is much closer then the point and it is right on the DART and commuter rail lines.

    LivelineDipso Broadstone is too far out again.

    To be honest, if somewhere closer to O'Connell St can't be found, then Connelly Station Car Park is probably the best idea.

    Plenty of space at Connolly Station car park, it is very large. It would be big enough to take all the private coaches, plus all the BE coaches from BusAras, for a proper transport hub. I'd Imagine a multistorey building. First floor the buses obviously, second floor a station area (shops, passenger waiting areas, etc.) which would connect directly with Connelly train station concourse level), maybe a third level for CIE and private bus company adminstrative offices, break room for drivers, etc.) and then a couple of floors of a multistorey car park above it.

    Obviously close Bus Aras and rebuild it as offices, to help finance the redevelopment at Connelly.

    I also see the need for big access changes:

    - Get rid of the Luas stop outside BusAras and Connolly and instead put a new stop in the other (through running) direction in front of Connolly.
    - Open up the side door of Connolly across from Talbot street and significantly improve the pedestrian crossing to Talbot street and significantly improve the pedestrianisation of Talbot street as a link to O'Connell Street area.
    - You would probably need motorised walkways, to link the bus station section to the train station section and down to both the Luas stop and the Talbot Street entrance.


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    #41
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,560 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    yep, why not. the usage it currently get isn't the most efficient, aside from being a massive throughway for private traffic it's a badly laid out serious of bus stops currently, a disaster of a taxi rank and a huge amount of wasted space in the middle whilst pedestrians are marginalised for the sake of extra traffic lanes.

    banning private vehicle and at the same time creating a bus hub would make it far more vibrant and usefull to the city.

    The point is taking the coaches off the streets and providing proper waiting facilities etc.

    At least come up with some common sense suggestions.


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    #42
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,560 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    bk wrote: »
    Clare_Culchie, too far out, people don't want to have the extra expense and time to transfer on the Luas back into town.

    Also the majority of bus services are coming in from the west side of Ireland so most would be going along the quays anyway to get there.

    Putting the bus station in Connollys car park is a far better idea then this. I still think Connolly is a little too far from O'Connell St. but at least it is much closer then the point and it is right on the DART and commuter rail lines.

    LivelineDipso Broadstone is too far out again.

    To be honest, if somewhere closer to O'Connell St can't be found, then Connelly Station Car Park is probably the best idea.

    Plenty of space at Connolly Station car park, it is very large. It would be big enough to take all the private coaches, plus all the BE coaches from BusAras, for a proper transport hub. I'd Imagine a multistorey building. First floor the buses obviously, second floor a station area (shops, passenger waiting areas, etc.) which would connect directly with Connelly train station concourse level), maybe a third level for CIE and private bus company adminstrative offices, break room for drivers, etc.) and then a couple of floors of a multistorey car park above it.

    Obviously close Bus Aras and rebuild it as offices, to help finance the redevelopment at Connelly.

    I also see the need for big access changes:

    - Get rid of the Luas stop outside BusAras and Connolly and instead put a new stop in the other (through running) direction in front of Connolly.
    - Open up the side door of Connolly across from Talbot street and significantly improve the pedestrian crossing to Talbot street and significantly improve the pedestrianisation of Talbot street as a link to O'Connell Street area.
    - You would probably need motorised walkways, to link the bus station section to the train station section and down to both the Luas stop and the Talbot Street entrance.

    For the record, Broadstone is no further from the GPO than Connolly Station is!


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    #43
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    bk wrote: »
    Obviously close Bus Aras and rebuild it as offices, to help finance the redevelopment at Connelly.
    You do realise that Bus Aras is a listed building of architectural significance?


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    #44
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    lxflyer wrote: »
    For the record, Broadstone is no further from the GPO than Connolly Station is!

    Both are too far from o connell street and without a proper luas link would be useless. Any new bus station needs a luas stop right beside it and should not involve long walks like from the connolly car park out to the connolly station luas stop. Abbey street would be perfect with the luas stop beside it and also right in the city centre next to Jervis sc and only a short walk from the temple bar area.


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    #45
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,560 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Both are too far from o connell street and without a proper luas link would be useless. Any new bus station needs a luas stop right beside it and should not involve long walks like from the connolly car park out to the connolly station luas stop. Abbey street would be perfect with the luas stop beside it and also right in the city centre next to Jervis sc and only a short walk from the temple bar area.

    Just making the point that Broadstone is nowhere near as far as some people think it is.

    However, I would agree - a bus station needs to be reasonably central.

    Hence I would prefer the Dublin Bus parking yard on Abbey Street.


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    #46
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    ballooba wrote: »
    You do realise that Bus Aras is a listed building of architectural significance?

    cess pits can get listed nowadays?


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    #47
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Just making the point that Broadstone is nowhere near as far as some people think it is.

    However, I would agree - a bus station needs to be reasonably central.

    Hence I would prefer the Dublin Bus parking yard on Abbey Street.

    When you say Dublin Bus parking yard on Abbey Street, where do you mean? Is it where the current 130 , 31/32/29A, 41/B/C, 33 bus stops are?


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    #48
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,560 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    bikeman1 wrote: »
    When you say Dublin Bus parking yard on Abbey Street, where do you mean? Is it where the current 130 , 31/32/29A, 41/B/C, 33 bus stops are?

    I said "yard", not on-street!

    Dublin Bus had a large parking yard off Middle Abbey Street, that has been vacant since the LUAS was being built, where they could park buses safely during city centre layovers.


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    #49
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I said "yard", not on-street!

    Dublin Bus had a large parking yard off Middle Abbey Street, that has been vacant since the LUAS was being built, where they could park buses safely during city centre layovers.

    Thats ok, I know Dublin very well, but where is this yard off Middle Abbey St you talk of.

    I remember the 134 used to terminate on Middle Abbey St before the luas.


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    #50
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,560 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Forget about on-street termini. This is not a terminus - it is a parking yard where buses could be parked off-street during long layovers.

    The yard is between Middle Abbey Street and Strand Street and is accessed off Middle Abbey Street west of Liffey Street.

    It has lain unused since the LUAS works started.


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    #51
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Broadstone to the spire is 1.2km a 17 minute walk

    Connolly Station is 700 meters from the spire, a 9 minute walk.

    Connolly is within the 15 minute distance that is considered ok but not great for transfers. Broadstone is outside it.

    Connolly also has the advantage of more and better connections then broadstone (DART, commuter rail, luas, etc.. Also the walk from Connolly to the spire is much more direct and could be greatly improved with signage and pedestrianisation.

    However I agree that somewhere closer to the city center like Abbey Street would be better again.


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    #52
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Ixflyer, is this the space on Abbey Street you are talking about:

    http://goo.gl/maps/TF5QX

    Yes it looks like a nice space to use, but I wonder how many coaches it could fit and how coaches would get too and from the quays from there. Might require the purchase and demolition of some buildings.


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    #53
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    bk wrote: »
    Yes it looks like a nice space to use, but I wonder how many coaches it could fit and how coaches would get too and from the quays from there. Might require the purchase and demolition of some buildings.
    I'm open to correction, but I don't believe there is much of merit to the East of that site on the same block. No objection to a bit of urban rejuvenation.


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    #54
    coconutpie
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭coconutpie


    Why not CPO some of the controversial lands at the top of O'Connell St?
    Shops and offices could be built in front and a nice walkway from O'Connell St and Henry St etc could allow passengers access from all angles.


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    #55
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    coconutpie wrote: »
    Why not CPO some of the controversial lands at the top of O'Connell St?
    Shops and offices could be built in front and a nice walkway from O'Connell St and Henry St etc could allow passengers access from all angles.
    Or integrate into that development in co-operation with Chartered Land. Sub-terrain.


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    #56
    petronius
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    I think a new central bus station is a very good idea. Busaras is too small and not practical anymore. Ideally it should be located near other forms of Public Transport, like Dart, Rail, Luas, and an Airport link and an central.

    Coyningham road seems good on paper adjacent to Heuston, and the Luas - but NOT central.
    Broadstone maybe closer but still NOT central.

    Build one on the Garden of Rememberance - while I dislike losing the amenity it is Central would be aside the LUAS BXD line and the Metro North? (and are there not plans to move the Rotunda to the Mater? would give you more room..

    The Idea of demolishing hawkins streets ugly towers I like, also room at the Burgh Quay Irish press place if it hasnt been redeveloped.- aside tara street and the LUAS BXD line and future Metro North stop at college green sounds like a good idea as well


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    #57
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    bk wrote: »
    Broadstone to the spire is 1.2km a 17 minute walk

    Connolly Station is 700 meters from the spire, a 9 minute walk.

    Connolly is within the 15 minute distance that is considered ok but not great for transfers. Broadstone is outside it.

    Connolly also has the advantage of more and better connections then broadstone (DART, commuter rail, luas, etc.. Also the walk from Connolly to the spire is much more direct and could be greatly improved with signage and pedestrianisation.

    However I agree that somewhere closer to the city center like Abbey Street would be better again.
    From the carpark at the back of Connolly the walk on google maps can be up to 1.3KM and take 17 minutes but longer for elderly passengers with heavy cases and mothers with kids and buggy. And then where do the Irish Rail passengers that use the carpark park their cars?


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    #58
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,560 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    bk wrote: »
    Ixflyer, is this the space on Abbey Street you are talking about:

    http://goo.gl/maps/TF5QX

    Yes it looks like a nice space to use, but I wonder how many coaches it could fit and how coaches would get too and from the quays from there. Might require the purchase and demolition of some buildings.

    Firstly (and again!) it's LXflyer!!

    Secondly - yes that is the Dublin Bus parking yard.

    I would be of the opinion that:
    • Busaras would remain as a long distance bus station
    • Strand Street would become a commuter bus station
    The latter would not require long waiting times and would be better suited to that sort of operation.


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    #59
    smellmepower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 829 ✭✭✭smellmepower


    Would be a pain in the arse using Strand Street today because of Luas and the massively increased footfall since it was last in operation.

    How would buses access it?couldn't use Abbey street because of the Luas.You'd have to funnel all busses in off Ormond Quay down Jervis Street,and funnel them out via Liffey Street,which is cramped enough just for cars these days.


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    #60
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,560 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    smellmepower wrote: »
    Would be a pain in the arse using Strand Street today because of Luas and the massively increased footfall since it was last in operation.

    How would buses access it?couldn't use Abbey street because of the Luas.You'd have to funnel all busses in off Ormond Quay down Jervis Street,and funnel them out via Liffey Street,which is cramped enough just for cars these days.

    Of course you could use Abbey Street - that road is still accessible. You're talking about 25m of road. We're talking about buses every 2 minutes here.

    How do Marks and Spencer take deliveries? They certainly are taking deliveries during LUAS operating hours, and their goods entrance opens onto the stretch of Abbey St west of Liffey Street.

    The routing would be inwards via Abbey Street, out via Strand Street and Capel Street.


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    #61
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Ah yes, I know where you are talking about now, that is beside the Jervis luas stop on UPPER Abbey St. The Middle Abbey St bit was confusing me. It is directly across from the M&S unloading area.

    Quite a tight area in there, but when you see how tight the Galway one is, then it might work. Also you probably would have to change some of the road lay out in the area to make it easier for a coach to get in.

    Do CIE / Dublin Bus still own the land?


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