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Greens: Dublin needs a second unified bus station now

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  • 20-08-2013 2:25pm
    #1
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Green Party press release:

    Dublin needs a second unified bus station now

    To stop Dublin streets being used as a bus park for private coaches.....

    The Green Party calls for the opening up of Busaras to all buses and for a second unified bus station to be provided on the Western approaches to the city centre.

    Freen Party Spokesperson on Transport and Tourism Tom Kivlehan said today, "Busaras needs to be opened to private operators and a second station needs to be established near Heuston Station to take all intercity bus traffic coming in from the West and South West. It makes no sense to send all Bus Eireann services to the one congested location in Busaras. Nor does it make sense to force private bus companies to dump their passengers on the side of the street, causing problems for both the passengers and for other road users. This ineffective use of resources is not necessary and it needs to stop now."

    "The Dublin Bus garage on Conyngham Road would be a perfect location for a new station. With a new footbridge across the Liffey it would only be a two minutes walk from Heuston Station and the Luas Red line services. The Dublin Bus fleet could be switched over to the underutilized Bus Eireann depot at Broadstone and the changeover could be carried out quickly with minimal cost and disruption. It would take traffic off the Quays and would stop some of our most beautiful Georgian squares been used as bus parks."

    "There is no reason why the same sharing of bus stations could not also take place in Cork, Limerick and Galway where the current rivalry between Bus Eireann and the private operators leads to a similar chaotic situation to what is happening in Dublin. Putting the public and private services in the same station would improve both collaboration and competition between the different services and would be good for the consumer."

    "The recent NTA plan for Transport in Dublin was strangely silent on the need for a radical overhaul of the long distance bus services in and out of the city. Opening up a second station and putting all operators together under the one roof should be the first and cheapest step in the radical shake up of public transport that we need."


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    #2
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Some good principals but Conyngham Road is the wrong location for an intercity bus station.

    Even Broadstone with Luas would be better!


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    #3
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,590 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    monument wrote: »
    Nor does it make sense to force private bus companies to dump their passengers on the side of the street, causing problems for both the passengers and for other road users.

    Except that is exactly where passengers want to be left off/dumped.

    One of the big advantages for the private bus companies over Irish Rail is them operating out of the much more central location of close to O'Connell Street right next to the majority of Dublin Bus services.

    Hueston is too far out and most people don't want the extra expensive and time wasting of switching to Luas.

    This also ignores the fact that all these coaches would still continue along the quays anyway as they head to the airport.

    It also ignores the fact that most private coach companies will already let you off at Hueston if you ask.


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    #4
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    What's the story with the vacant CIE site at Abbey St Luas stop? Between Abbey St and Strand St.

    Links:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=304886
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056927232&page=3
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2798346&postcount=2
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2838844&postcount=8
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65682772&postcount=4


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    #5
    Cool Mo D
    Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭Cool Mo D


    Passengers want to go to the city centre but the city streets being used for drop off are totally unsuitable. The amount of congestion from tourist and passenger coaches around Nassau street, Kildare Street, Westmoreland Street and the quays is ridiculous. Having coaches stopping for long periods on busy through streets is a crazy use of scarce street space. Invariably the coaches are parked in some of the busiest bus lanes in the city too.

    Busaras is too small, there needs to be a new coach terminal for coach parking. Heuston is far out, but either the waste ground around Tara street or near Jervis luas stops would be perfect. And ideally private and Bus Eireann coaches would share the same stations


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    #6
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Heuston is too far out for such an idea.

    The amount all buses stop in the city center needs to be sorted out as well, that would really help some of the most crowded stops, as would better distribution of services to multiple stops next to each other.

    The biggest pinch points are Suffolk Street and Westmoreland Street, but you have the crazy situation where some services will stop at Both, or you have others that stop outside Londis on the corner of College Green / Dame Street and then again on Westmoreland Street.

    If you stopped all vehicles at one of these stops, it would already make a good difference.


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    #7
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Demolish Hawkins House and Apollo House and build a new bus station. Kill 2 birds with one stone - great location and remove the ugliest building in central Dublin. Both these images are the same scale:


    Busaras:
    2ajw3r9.png

    Potential New Station Site:
    1z3wck9.png


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    #8
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    The Green party is still around? Who cares what they say, they don't have a single person in the Oireachteas so the proposal isn't worth the paper it's written on.

    Anyway, to stay on topic- I agree broadly, but using C.Ham road is a non-runner, you can't just transfer stuff to Broadstone when that will lose capacity with Luas BXD and may well get subsumed into Grangegorman. I agree with the other poster, the Tara St area is the place and I have often imagined a huge, multi storey(internal access to a basement or higher levels where buses can lay over for extended periods of time, leaving the bottom level clear for through running of city bus services) transport hub there, fed directly by the Pearse St artery, the Marlborough St bus bridge, Fleet St for access from the College Green/Dame St. area and of course such a hub would directly include Tara St Dart station and access to BXD Luas stops.


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    #9
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    ill-though out green rubbish...what about people wanting to make through journeys onto another mode/service?.... two central bus stations isn't the answer...a proper rail/bus/coach interchange with Luas access near the city centre is what is needed...Heuston is not this and never has been (and hopefiully never will be)


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    #10
    NoNewFriends
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 62 ✭✭NoNewFriends


    A private coach station in Galway, the Seán Duggan Centre, opened in 2009 and has been very successful. It's used by the various bus companies that provide tours of the West of Ireland to the Cliffs, the Burren etc. It's clean, spacious and easy to find your way around with plenty of staff willing to help.

    I think Dublin could also use another coach station but I suggest it be used by private bus companies only. Where should the new coach station be situated? I don't know. But it would be ideal if it was connected to a Luas or DART line to facilitate onward journeys. Bus Áras is a horrible, dirty bus station. I imagine tourists are put off by the gangs of junkies who loiter around the building. The toilets inside are filthy and they even have the cheek to charge for them.


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    #11
    Mr Simpson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    What about building one where the Connolly car park is. Build a Multistorey car park (which would take up a fraction of the space) and use the rest as a bus park.

    Easy access to Port Tunnel, East Link, Luas, Dart and Train Services.


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    #12
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users Posts: 7,854 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    Mr Simpson wrote: »
    What about building one where the Connolly car park is. Build a Multistorey car park (which would take up a fraction of the space) and use the rest as a bus park.

    Easy access to Port Tunnel, East Link, Luas, Dart and Train Services.
    sure wasnt that the plan at some stage ?


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    #13
    Mr Simpson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    sure wasnt that the plan at some stage ?

    Dunno. But it makes sense in my mind


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    #14
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    NoNewFriends wrote: »
    A private coach station in Galway, the Seán Duggan Centre, opened in 2009 and has been very successful. It's used by the various bus companies that provide tours of the West of Ireland to the Cliffs, the Burren etc. It's clean, spacious and easy to find your way around with plenty of staff willing to help.

    I think Dublin could also use another coach station but I suggest it be used by private bus companies only. Where should the new coach station be situated? I don't know. But it would be ideal if it was connected to a Luas or DART line to facilitate onward journeys. Bus Áras is a horrible, dirty bus station. I imagine tourists are put off by the gangs of junkies who loiter around the building. The toilets inside are filthy and they even have the cheek to charge for them.

    some, probably most of those onward journeys would be on other coaches or city buses or Inter City trains. Most people wont want to lug their luggage on and off an extra train/tram leg of the journey.


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    #15
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    One thought I've had is that buses coming from the northside could have a drop off/pickup point near but not at Busaras with terminal operations happening somewhere on the southside. This would be like where buses from the south drop off at Heuston before terminating at Busaras. It would mean more buses transiting the city centre, admittedly, but you'd hope the space freed up at Busaras by moving some buses to the southside terminus would allow some buses to be moved out of street termini with a counterbalancing freeing up for road space.

    Item 1 on any such plan of course would have to be to take Busaras out of CIE ownership to ensure fair play. Can't see Aircoach etc. trusting CIE to play fair in gate allocation.


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    #16
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,590 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    NoNewFriends wrote: »
    A private coach station in Galway, the Seán Duggan Centre, opened in 2009 and has been very successful. It's used by the various bus companies that provide tours of the West of Ireland to the Cliffs, the Burren etc. It's clean, spacious and easy to find your way around with plenty of staff willing to help.

    Yes, the new coach station in Galway is excellent *, but the reason it works so well is it's central location. It is literally two minutes walk from Eyre Square and all the onward local buses, plus the train and bus station next door.

    A coach station in Dublin needs to be equally well located and connected.

    Huston is way too far it, even Connolly station isn't the greatest and as others say, it would need to be taken out of CIE control.

    * It could do with a shop and cafe.


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    #17
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    The Galway one is just what we need (with a shop and cafe yes) and approximately as far away from the center of Dublin (wherever that is nowadays).


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    #18
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There is one aspect of this discussion that I agree with.

    Dublin does need a second bus station for the other Intercity bus services, and remove them from the streets.

    Which operators use which (i.e. Busaras and this second one) should be a decision for the NTA.

    As to where it should be - well there is only one location that is readily available and is within striking distance of the city centre, and that is the old bus parking facility between Middle Abbey Street and Strand Street.

    Frankly it is a no brainer.

    Conyngham Road would be daft - it is too far away, and moving the depot to Broadstone would lead to increased dead running by Dublin Bus vehicles to/from outer termini in the mornings and evenings.


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    #19
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    lxflyer wrote: »
    and that is the old bus parking facility between Middle Abbey Street and Stand Street.

    The access to that site seems pretty poor to me, all side roads and areas with lots of de facto pedestrianisation.


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    #20
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    TheBandicoot wrote: »
    The access to that site seems pretty poor to me, all side roads and areas with lots of de facto pedestrianisation.

    The site was used by Dublin Bus for years with no problem.

    Why should other operators be any different?

    Entry via Abbey Street, exit via Strand Street and Capel Street.


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    #21
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    lxflyer wrote: »
    The site was used by Dublin Bus for years with no problem.
    Pre or post Luas?


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    #22
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Pre-LUAS but why would that make a difference?

    It's hardly as if there's going to be coaches entering/leaving every minute.


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    #23
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Pre-LUAS but why would that make a difference?

    It's hardly as if there's going to be coaches entering/leaving every minute.
    Bus Aras is already a mess with the Luas and traffic competing for space.


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    #24
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,480 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Turn O'Connell St into a bus only road with bays all up the middle angled for straight forward entry and exit. Can then act as a key hub for city, intercity and commuter bus routes and the Luas.


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    #25
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    lxflyer wrote: »
    The site was used by Dublin Bus for years with no problem.

    Why should other operators be any different?

    Entry via Abbey Street, exit via Strand Street and Capel Street.

    The streets are narrow, there's the Luas and far higher footfall?


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    #26
    Boulevardier
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    In the 80s, there were plans for a new central bus station in Temple Bar. It was cancelled and the area became a "cultural quarter" instead.

    I strongly suspect that people who are now senior in the Green Party were among those who insisted on "preserving" that area.

    In any event, a new bus station needs to be near the city centre, but not inside traffic bottlenecks that would make for longer bus journey times.

    One of the sites discussed in the 80s was at a then-vacant site at George's Quay, near tara St train station. I did not like the idea then, but since a lot of the private coaches pick up around there anyway, it might be workable if a site can still be found.


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    #27
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users Posts: 7,854 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    The back of connolly is ideal for a bus station.
    The luas and dart is on the doorstep and eventually the Dart Underground to stephens green.

    The main stumbling block folks have is that a change to get to the city proper means 2euro more of a fare with the dart or luas (or local bus).
    Thats simply an organisational issue and with everything being ran by the NTA (including the pot of millions of subsidies for the various operators) they can bring in a solution with the stroke of a pen that allows suburban commuters terminating at the new bus station a short connection "for free" - which in reality would be a tiny surcharge on the commuter ticket price if theres no common unified tarif structure by then.


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    #28
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    It seems like key to any new city centre bus station would be to maximise the use of the foot print. Either underground or above ground. The space in the city centre is too valuable to be used as a bus park alone. Something complimentary to a bus station would be ideal e.g. Shopping Mall / Cinema / Food Court. You could also examine why there is no commercial core around Heuston. It's bounded on one side by Phoenix Park, another by Guinness, and another by track and Railway Yard. Maybe developing Guinness wouldn't have been so bad.


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    #29
    etchyed
    Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭etchyed


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    Turn O'Connell St into a bus only road with bays all up the middle angled for straight forward entry and exit. Can then act as a key hub for city, intercity and commuter bus routes and the Luas.
    You want to turn O'Connell Street into a coach park? Jesus wept.


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    #30
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    etchyed wrote: »
    You want to turn O'Connell Street into a coach park? Jesus wept.
    If we start now we could have it in place for the centenary of 1916!


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    #31
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    Bus Áras is a horrible, dirty bus station. I imagine tourists are put off by the gangs of junkies who loiter around the building. The toilets inside are filthy and they even have the cheek to charge for them.[/quote]sorry but bus and train stations in every other european country are dirty kips and all have gangs of knackers hanging around even worse still theres way more pickpoketers i do agree about the toilets. O/T i think since theres a lack of space i think an underground bus station would be a great idea because of the lack of space it would be like an underground car park with a raised ceiling.


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