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Government defeats byelection motion

2»

Comments

  • #52
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    From a slightly different perspective constituencies where the vile independents that prop up the Government get special deals, extra funding for pet projects etc and the 3 constituencies do not even get a speaker to act for them in any matter that a TD deals with. It defies belief and it shows the lengths that FF are prepared to go to stay in office. I hope that the electorate resoundly vote them out...... at the next election.


  • #53
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    It's a pathetic and cowardly joke that they even fought against a motion for the elections.


  • #54
    danman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I'm aware of that.

    My point is that they have proven time and time again that they have no interest in doing "the right thing".

    The "right thing" is to hold the by-elections.

    And since they're putting themselves first and not doing that, it just begs the question what else they're doing in their own interests.......NAMA, Anglo, etc ?

    I don't deny that the right thing is to hold the byelections. But to use the argument that...
    Firstly, FF seem to believe that they're doing the right thing. If they truly believe this, then they should actually be convinced that they wouldn't get the sack.

    .....doesn't make sense.

    They know that they are gone in the next GE, so again, why would they vote to give themselves the sack?
    Would anyone on here vote for themselves to be sacked?

    As I've said, it's human nature to hold onto your job for as long as you can.

    As for the Greens, they may well have no representitives in the next Dail. They will have no chance to implimentany of their green policies that they believe in.
    In that case, is anyone surprised that they will not vote for an election?


  • #55
    monosharp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭monosharp


    DeVore wrote: »
    Its a frackin' disgrace and if people want to march and protest over something, it should be THAT.

    The problem of course is who do we put in instead of them?

    I'm finally beginning to understand how the proletariat in tzarist Russia must have felt.

    "Democracy for an insignificant minority, democracy for the rich – that is the democracy of capitalist society." - Marx

    Anyone up for a revolution ? I call Chairman of the party :pac:


  • #56
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    Brussels Sprout wrote: »
    So how long can they hold out for. I mean hypothetically can they put this off until the next General Election?

    I have heard that the government are going to put off the Dublin Mayoral election and the childrens referendum until next year. So no by-elections this year if true.


  • #57
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    Fitzcaraldo wrote: »
    Not necessarily - the majority of the Seanad are elected by sitting and ex-politicians and councillors, you then have Cowen's choice and the Uni vote. The reality is that the make up seldom differs from that in the Dail.

    There is a provision for a different method of election but it has not been used since Dev got the hump. The real idea is that the Seanad should be drawn from different interest groups, divorced from traditional party political lines. If they were granted the power to strike down and/or amend legislation as opposed to just dely it, it may force a change in the way in which the Dail operates.

    IS there a bigger waste of money and resources than the seanad?

    Bunch of useless td's ranting and raving in the 'back room'


  • #58
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Jaysoose wrote: »
    IS there a bigger waste of money and resources than the seanad?

    Bunch of useless td's ranting and raving in the 'back room'

    while it is badly organised and elected at the moment it is key to ensuring the Dail heads don't get above themselves and put through all kinds of daft laws* etc. It is needed and should stay albeit in reduced numbers.

    * - well at least in theory


  • #59
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    deadtiger wrote: »
    These elections have to be held and the Government know they are going to get stamped on whenever they hold why do they not just set a date and get them over with.

    All they are doing is adding fuel to the fire that they are being undemocratic and are not allowing people in the effected constituencies have full representation.




    Why six months the positions should be filled as soon as possible with a maximum time to call the elections at 3 months.

    Then again if we had a list system then the seat would be filled by the next person on the list of candidates that the parties submitted before the general election without the need for another wasteful by-election.


    Full Story is here.

    Yet again, Kenny makes a complete fool of himself and his Party. Enda Kenny is FF's best hope of being rescued from politicial oblivion !

    Of course this delay in calling the three byelections makes a complete nonsense of claims by TDs about how hard working they are - if their absence from three constituencies is so umimportant then that is a reflection of significant their work is ! It is also highly undemocratic.


  • #60
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    while it is badly organised and elected at the moment it is key to ensuring the Dail heads don't get above themselves and put through all kinds of daft laws* etc. It is needed and should stay albeit in reduced numbers.

    * - well at least in theory

    Thats the problem, they should be doing all the above but in reality its the political equivalent of the naughty step....with the back bench being their first warning of course.


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  • #61
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    Jaysoose wrote: »
    IS there a bigger waste of money and resources than the seanad?

    Bunch of useless td's ranting and raving in the 'back room'
    I think with the likes of Shane Ross we have someone who at least willing to expose the big money men.
    Seanad numbers should be halved


  • #62
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    Jaysoose wrote: »
    IS there a bigger waste of money and resources than the seanad?

    Bunch of useless td's ranting and raving in the 'back room'


    In it's current form - no. It is a waste of resources as it has no real legitimate function. That said though, if there were to be a meaningful reform and if we had a house that could strike down bills and force amendments then we may hav fewer instances of majority parties falling into bed with anyone and promising the earth moon and stars in a desperate attempt to cement a majority in the Dail no matter what the cost.


  • #63
    ninty9er
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Its a disgrace in a democracy that these 3 constituencies are not represented all because it is the shambolic FF putting its interests before democracy and the interests of the nation.
    Those constituencies have 9 TDs between them, hardly unrepresented. Okay they shoud have 12, but if there's a referendum due, they should be held the same day.
    Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »
    Are you telling me between Labour, FG and the independents we cant put together a decent opposition?
    Quite clearly not. I was at a Fianna Fáil Comhairle Ceantair meeting on Monday and the common feeling is that the opposition is the only thing keeping the government in power.


  • #64
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Quite clearly not. I was at a Fianna Fáil Comhairle Ceantair meeting on Monday and the common feeling is that the opposition is the only thing keeping the government in power.

    That's a pretty bull****, snide remark to be honest, considering that it's up to the government to set a date for the election, or up to those with ethics to vote against some of the ****e they've landed on us.

    What, pray tell, could the opposition actually do to not "keep this government in power" ? Do enlighten us, and I'll get them to do it on Monday.


  • #65
    maynooth_rules
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Quite clearly not. I was at a Fianna Fáil Comhairle Ceantair meeting on Monday and the common feeling is that the opposition is the only thing keeping the government in power.

    It is actually a lot more to do with having backbenchers in the party who have no backbone whatsoever. It has more to do with a green party that prefer to be complete and utter lapdogs than do what is right for the country. It has more to do with gombeen independents continually voting with this dreadful government who is slowly destroying our country all because they get promised a shiny new community centre or some potholes filled in their contituency.


  • #66
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Those constituencies have 9 TDs between them, hardly unrepresented. Okay they shoud have 12, but if there's a referendum due, they should be held the same day.


    Quite clearly not. I was at a Fianna Fáil Comhairle Ceantair meeting on Monday and the common feeling is that the opposition is the only thing keeping the government in power.

    Such a diverse bunch comprised of great thinkers and defenders of the vulnerable must have been present at the meeting of yours. :rolleyes:


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  • #67
    Marshy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Marshy


    In practical terms (ie. getting a majority and defeating a government) there isn't much the opposition can do at this stage.

    Having said that there's a lot more they could do in terms of policy and credibility. Both FG and Labour currently lack these imo, FG particularly the latter and Labour the former. Fine Gael need to convince people they offer something genuinely different from Fianna Fail. Labour on the other hand need to actually spell out what their policies on many issues actually are.

    It might be unpopular to say but going on current evidence its unclear whether a change to the opposition would be change for the better. And I know lots of people who feel like this, not FF supporters either. Its up to the opposition parties to make a case for change and not simply accept that they'll eventually win an election down the line, being a supposedly less bad alternative to FF.

    I'd largely agree with ninty9er, the lack of clear alternatives are really helping such an unpopular government to stay in power without much difficulty atm.


  • #68
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Marshy wrote: »
    In practical terms (ie. getting a majority and defeating a government) there isn't much the opposition can do at this stage.

    They can't do anything about the fact that democracy is being subverted either.
    Marshy wrote: »
    I'd largely agree with ninty9er, the lack of clear alternatives are really helping such an unpopular government to stay in power without much difficulty atm.

    That's not what ninty9er said, though....
    ninty9er wrote: »
    the opposition is the only thing keeping the government in power

    The opposition could be stronger, sure......they should lead by example and expose the FF lies and corruption even more. They're doing a bit of this, despite FF getting airtime to spout the usual Lehman Bros/world economy/necessary-but-unpopular decisions are the reason bull****, but they can't do a damn thing until Cowen agrees to look for a mandate.


  • #69
    ninty9er
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    I feel the need to clarify.

    At the last General Election, the opposition was inadaquate and that lead to it keeping the government in power.


  • #70
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    ninty9er wrote: »
    I was at a Fianna Fáil Comhairle Ceantair meeting on Monday and the common feeling is that the opposition is the only thing keeping the government in power.
    ninty9er wrote: »
    I feel the need to clarify.

    At the last General Election (i.e. about 3 years ago) , the opposition was inadaquate and that lead (presumably meaning past tense ? "led" ?) to it keeping the government in power.

    Sounds like a Bertie Ahern style - ahem - "clarification" :rolleyes: to me.

    I guess the perfectly clear present tense, recent meeting (Monday) and current verb don't mean a whole lot when you want to do a u-turn ? ;):D:D:D


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