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Government defeats byelection motion

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  • 19-05-2010 2:05pm
    #1
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭


    Government wins byelection vote

    EOIN BURKE-KENNEDY

    The Government has narrowly defeated a Dáil motion calling for an immediate byelection in Waterford.

    The Coalition voted down the joint Fine Gael and Labour motion calling on the Government to set a date for the byelection by 77 votes to 72, maintaining a majority of only five.

    These elections have to be held and the Government know they are going to get stamped on whenever they hold why do they not just set a date and get them over with.

    All they are doing is adding fuel to the fire that they are being undemocratic and are not allowing people in the effected constituencies have full representation.

    Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said his party planned to bring a private members' bill before the Dáil next week calling for all byelections to be held within six months of the vacancy occurring.

    Why six months the positions should be filled as soon as possible with a maximum time to call the elections at 3 months.

    Then again if we had a list system then the seat would be filled by the next person on the list of candidates that the parties submitted before the general election without the need for another wasteful by-election.


    Full Story is here.


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Comments

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    #2
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    :mad:

    Democracy me hole, why can't they even get them all to turn up for a vote like this
    77 votes to 72
    = 149 of (166-3=)163 :mad: Lazy ****ers, where are the others today?

    I can't see how FF TD's can just blindly follow the whip on this one, the whole thing is anti-democratic


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    #3
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    What's galling is the response of one of the FF TD's for one of the areas under-represented?
    Waterford Fianna Fáil TD Brendan Kenneally claimed the electorate was more concerned with the management of the economy than holding the three pending byelections in Waterford, Donegal South West and Dublin South.

    While everyone is worried about the economy it shouldn't be used as a shield to hide from having these by-elections. What next no general election in 2012 because everyone is worried about the economy!!

    Nice representation of his constituents by that FF TD as well. The voters of Waterford should remember that at the next General Election.


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    #4
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    What he should have said if anything
    Waterford Fianna Fáil TD Brendan Kenneally claimed the electorate was more concerned with the mis-management of the economy than holding the three pending byelections in Waterford, Donegal South West and Dublin South.


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    #5
    unaetoile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭unaetoile


    Is this a dictatorship or a democracy. The lack of a by-election is clear sign of the former. If these seats do not merit a democratically elected representative of the people, why not just eliminate and reduce the number of TDs by this 3 (a starting point to reform the number of non-productive members of the Dail).


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    #6
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    Our democracy will always be a dictatorship - if you have a majority in the Dail, you will win all votes and defeat all private members bills. Thsi is why we should be expanding the powers of the Seanad and not talking about dismantling it - checks and balances folks.


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    #7
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    This is a sorry state of affairs. Not holding these By-elections, is clearly a part of a desperate move, by a government, that know damn well it will get a pasting, so is going the undemocratic route to cling to power as long as possible.


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    #8
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Fitzcaraldo wrote: »
    Our democracy will always be a dictatorship - if you have a majority in the Dail, you will win all votes and defeat all private members bills. Thsi is why we should be expanding the powers of the Seanad and not talking about dismantling it - checks and balances folks.


    If people voted in one party to the dail, wouldnt the Seanad get the same percentage representation?


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    #9
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    Democracy, Fianna Fail style.


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    #10
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    If people voted in one party to the dail, wouldnt the Seanad get the same percentage representation?

    Not necessarily - the majority of the Seanad are elected by sitting and ex-politicians and councillors, you then have Cowen's choice and the Uni vote. The reality is that the make up seldom differs from that in the Dail.

    There is a provision for a different method of election but it has not been used since Dev got the hump. The real idea is that the Seanad should be drawn from different interest groups, divorced from traditional party political lines. If they were granted the power to strike down and/or amend legislation as opposed to just dely it, it may force a change in the way in which the Dail operates.


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    #11
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Fitzcaraldo wrote: »
    Our democracy will always be a dictatorship - if you have a majority in the Dail, you will win all votes and defeat all private members bills. Thsi is why we should be expanding the powers of the Seanad and not talking about dismantling it - checks and balances folks.

    Govt also has an in-built majority in the Seanad


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    #12
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Govt also has an in-built majority in the Seanad

    See the above post - there is a constitutional remedy for this already in existance.


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    #13
    scr123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭scr123


    Pointless holding the byeelections when its very possible the next Budget will fail to pass in the house and there will be a GE on Xmas Eve that will confirm the opposition to FF will have all the answers and we can all enjoy Xmas knowing the country is in great hands and all our problems are solved
    Roll on Xmas !


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    #14
    KrazeeEyezKilla
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭KrazeeEyezKilla


    deadtiger wrote: »
    While everyone is worried about the economy it shouldn't be used as a shield to hide from having these by-elections. What next no general election in 2012 because everyone is worried about the economy!!

    Don't go giving them ideas. They'll probably say that it would destabilise the economy and that the markets wouldn't like it.


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    #15
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Fitzcaraldo wrote: »
    . The real idea is that the Seanad should be drawn from different interest groups, divorced from traditional party political lines.


    Oh, **** that.


    So, Unions, Pro-Lifers and Joe Duffy listeners should get powers to run the country?


    No thanks, sounds much worse.


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    #16
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    Oh, **** that.


    So, Unions, Pro-Lifers and Joe Duffy listeners should get powers to run the country?


    No thanks, sounds much worse.

    And of employers, the self employed etc etc?


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    #17
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Fitzcaraldo wrote: »
    And of employers, the self employed etc etc?


    Special interest groups rarely represent great swathes of people, just usually the most militant and outspoken out there. Therefore ti stands to reason that minority interests would be served if they were given power rather then majority.


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    #18
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    Special interest groups rarely represent great swathes of people, just usually the most militant and outspoken out there. Therefore ti stands to reason that minority interests would be served if they were given power rather then majority.

    You are assuming that politicians are not a special interest group;)


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    #19
    Marshy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Marshy


    Even thought there's no credible reason government can give for delaying the by-elections, its naive to think any other government would act differently and not protect its own interests.

    If they held the elections over the summer and inevitably lost all 3, the majority would be precarious. Its political reality that governments will protect themselves, unsatisfactory as it might be.


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    #20
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Marshy wrote: »
    Even thought there's no credible reason government can give for delaying the by-elections, its naive to think any other government would act differently and not protect its own interests.

    If they held the elections over the summer and inevitably lost all 3, the majority would be precarious. Its political reality that governments will protect themselves, unsatisfactory as it might be.

    Since Biffo and Co. believe that he and they are doing the right thing in managing the economy and country, so what do they have to fear then from the electorate in these 3 constituencies as the voters will surely agree with them? Its a disgrace in a democracy that these 3 constituencies are not represented all because it is the shambolic FF putting its interests before democracy and the interests of the nation.


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    #21
    Marshy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Marshy


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Since Biffo and Co. believe that he and they are doing the right thing in managing the economy and country, so what do they have to fear then from the electorate in these 3 constituencies as the voters will surely agree with them?
    They wouldn't be that blind to ignore the fact people don't like cutbacks and tax hikes, regardless of whose in charge.
    Its a disgrace in a democracy that these 3 constituencies are not represented all because it is the shambolic FF putting its interests before democracy and the interests of the nation
    As I say though, thats political reality, its not just a FF phenomenon. In the UK, the new government is already putting forward a proposal whereby a 55% majority would be required to dissolve the House of Commons.


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    #22
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    No surprise there then it was defeated.
    Self-interest wins again.


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    #23
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,849 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Ye guys are so funny.

    Get FF out etc. Who you going to vote in that will make a difference?

    Give it one year after the general election whenever it is and the same lot of ye be moaning about that goverment!

    I aint a FF but I aint naive to below any of the other parties will make a difference.

    So many people on here believe they know alot and maybe they do and fair play but why not start a new party in what ye believe in:)


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    #24
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    average_runner wrote: »
    Ye guys are so funny.

    Get FF out etc. Who you going to vote in that will make a difference?

    Give it one year after the general election whenever it is and the same lot of ye be moaning about that goverment!

    I aint a FF but I aint naive to below any of the other parties will make a difference.

    So many people on here believe they know alot and maybe they do and fair play but why not start a new party in what ye believe in:)

    Some of us are trying to - and in the meanwhile while we are trying to do so, should we shut the hell up about these cowardly self-interest dictators (in all but name)?

    ...I think not!


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    #25
    baalthor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭baalthor


    Marshy wrote: »
    They wouldn't be that blind to ignore the fact people don't like cutbacks and tax hikes, regardless of whose in charge.


    As I say though, thats political reality, its not just a FF phenomenon. In the UK, the new government is already putting forward a proposal whereby a 55% majority would be required to dissolve the House of Commons.

    That's to complement the fixed term parliamemt proposal.


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    #26
    Marshy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Marshy


    baalthor wrote: »
    That's to complement the fixed term parliamemt proposal.
    Yes, still would make it harder to defeat a government.


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    #27
    Sulmac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭Sulmac


    Fine Gael are now proposing that by-elections should be made take place within six months of a vacancy by law. The announcement is here.


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    #28
    danman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    If anyone on here had a vote on whether they would get the sack, which way would you vote?

    It's simply human nature.
    Nothing more.


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    #29
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Sulmac wrote: »
    Fine Gael are now proposing that by-elections should be made take place within six months of a vacancy by law. The announcement is here.
    I think thats only right.
    It should be on the first of news laws to be updated when change comes.


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    #30
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    Yes heard a fianna fail senator on last word saying we didnt to hold the by elections because there were too many TDS as it was and then went off on a tangent about Fine Gael celebrity tds in Dun Laoghaire.
    The law is an absolute ass on this. Electorate voted in a td for a purpose, if that seat is vacated it should be filled ASAP


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    #31
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Its a frackin' disgrace and if people want to march and protest over something, it should be THAT.

    The problem of course is who do we put in instead of them?


    DeV.


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