Cyclists mega-thread (WARNING: Before posting you must read post #1)

greenman09 · 26-05-2014 10:48pm

Looks like someone was overtaken by a Cyclist again

CramCycle · 26-05-2014 10:49pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

I see no reason to let it go, it serves as a reminder that no matter how good a driver I am there's always the chance that some pillock will endanger himself and me by failing to follow simple traffic law.

But your constant tirade against cyclist implies you think none of us obey the law, we are all reckless and this constant narrative is hurtful to the majority of us (born out by the stats) that do take care because of your simplistic view that we are all the same. You lost 2000, it's a large sum but it's not worth all the hate. Why is it focused on cyclists? I'd be more worried about the lorry or bus not obeying the law. Take a deep breath, and get your priorities in order.

eeeee · 26-05-2014 11:00pm

wrt40 wrote: »

The discussion is about cyclists. Just because there are bad drivers doesn't give cyclists the right to be arse holes on the road.

I am one of those plain clothes cyclists and I get by just fine by being courteous to all other people: cyclists, motorists, pedestrians, animals etc

Just try it out. Eveyone is a winner, everyone will be happy, everyone will have a good day and nothing bad will ever come of it.

The northern Irish ad has it spot on, you know the one where the driver and the cyclist have a "no please, you go first...no I insist you go first" moment, the cyclist gives the driver the thumbs up and he responds with a warm smile and a nod.

Get home, take your lycra off and tell the wife you had a lovely cycle.

I cycle in both Lycra and plain clothes, and I can confidently assert that my attire has no effect on my legality as a road user! I am a legal cyclist in both kinds of gear.

ThisRegard · 26-05-2014 11:03pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Just because you have paid a tax to use ONE vehicle on a road does not give you the right to use a second vehicle based on having paid that tax.

Try running a second motor car on the road on the assumption that you've paid tax already on the car in the driveway and see how far it gets you in the excuse department.

Yes we have all agreed it's not road tax because it's called motor tax but you are still required to have the tax paid and displayed before you can even leave the vehicle on a public road for a year without so much as starting the motor, therefore it is a defacto road tax.

Speak of the devil and he should appear.

I do pay motor tax on 2 cars by the way.

OldMrBrennan83 · 26-05-2014 11:04pm

This post has been deleted.

Tenzor07 · 26-05-2014 11:11pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

--> Insert group of road users here eh?

ezra_pound · 26-05-2014 11:14pm

mrcheez wrote: »

Bizarre you completely missed the point of my post. I wasn't saying anything about defensive cycling, or keeping off the kerb, of course you keep off the edge.
My reference was to cyclists going 2 or 3 abreast on roads designed to accomodate only one cyclist-width.

You Clearly don't have a clue about safe cycling.

Also what the hell is a car doing trying to drive on a road designed for only one bike width?

OldMrBrennan83 · 26-05-2014 11:16pm

This post has been deleted.

Tenzor07 · 26-05-2014 11:20pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Wow really? Get away with Murder eh?

I believe the rules of the road apply to all road users..?

John_C · 26-05-2014 11:49pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Wow really? Get away with Murder eh?

Have we forgotten already?
Gardaí appeal for witnesses to cycle-by shooting

Spook_ie · 27-05-2014 12:17am

CramCycle wrote: »

But your constant tirade against cyclist implies you think none of us obey the law, we are all reckless and this constant narrative is hurtful to the majority of us (born out by the stats) that do take care because of your simplistic view that we are all the same. You lost 2000, it's a large sum but it's not worth all the hate. Why is it focused on cyclists? I'd be more worried about the lorry or bus not obeying the law. Take a deep breath, and get your priorities in order.

I don't hate cyclists I just dislike those that can't or won't follow the rules of the road. Unhappily it seems to be more and more of them with each passing week but I suppose that those who would like more cyclists on the road don't actually care if they are good or bad cyclists as long as they are on cycles

Pinch Flat · 27-05-2014 12:17am

Spook_ie wrote: »

Out of accidents I've personally had in the last 19 years 100% caused by cyclists, damage to my car some €2000, damage to City Imp Unknown, damage to cyclist Nil because he didn't even stop

Well in the past 25 year of driving I've been t-boned by a truck while driving (€4000 damage), knocked off my bike twice - both times stopped at red lights, with hi-vis and several hundred lumens of red lights behind me. On all three occasions, none of the drivers claimed to see me. Do I win?

Pinch Flat · 27-05-2014 12:21am

Spook_ie wrote: »

I don't hate cyclists I just dislike those that can't or won't follow the rules of the road. Unhappily it seems to be more and more of them with each passing week but I suppose that those who would like more cyclists on the road don't actually care if they are good or bad cyclists as long as they are on cycles

Same for motorists. I was physically barged out of the way by a van driver on Wednesday morning last - I don't dislike motorists as a result, I'm one as well when I'm not in the bike.

Your post will be a valid argument when we have zero road deaths caused by cars, 100% compliance of all road laws by motorists and cyclists remain as the only group that stand out as the major cause of roads deaths and accidents caused by their ignoring of traffic laws. Which is not going to happen. Yes cyclists break the rules - it's a fact of life and it's not going to change.

Until such time it might be better to take a more relaxed approach - observe cyclists and cars break the rules, but don't get so worked up about it. Life is too short.

Spook_ie · 27-05-2014 12:31am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Well in the past 25 year of driving I've been t-boned by a truck while driving (€4000 damage), knocked off my bike twice - both times at the lights, both times with hi-vis and several hundred lumens of red lights. On all three occasions, none if the drivers claimed to see me. Do I win?

Yeah, you win but I didn't realise it was a competition otherwise I wouldn't. Have taken as many avoiding actions since

JuanJose · 27-05-2014 12:36am

Why all this conflict from motorists about cyclists?

Well, probably because while most cyclists are also motorists, far fewer motorists are ever cyclists. Always try to imagine yourself in the position of the other faction before firing criticism.

And for the record, I'm a regular cyclist who has never broken a red light. Yeah, we do actually exist!

Pinch Flat · 27-05-2014 12:36am

Spook_ie wrote: »

Yeah, you win but I didn't realise it was a competition otherwise I wouldn't. Have taken as many avoiding actions since

Fair enough. I thought the monetary values you used were somehow accentuating your points.

I have a simple rule whether cycling or driving - never trust the other road user in front, be they a cyclist or motorist. There are unpredictable, stupid and irresponsible people on all modes Of transport. Anticipating the danger and planning to avoid it is the best strategy in my book.

If you want to influence road behaviours out there, the only way is to join the guards and have a go at traffic enforcement. Moaning about it in the internet is a waste if time.

Spook_ie · 27-05-2014 12:37am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Same for motorists. I was physically barged out of the way by a van driver on Wednesday morning last - I don't dislike motorists as a result, I'm one as well when I'm not in the bike.

Your post will be a valid argument when we have zero road deaths caused by cars, 100% compliance of all road laws by motorists and cyclists remain as the only group that stand out as the major cause of roads deaths and accidents caused by their ignoring of traffic laws. Which is not going to happen. Yes cyclists break the rules - it's a fact of life and it's not going to change.

Until such time it might be better to take a more relaxed approach - observe cyclists and cars break the rules, but don't get so worked up about it. Life is too short.

I don't get worked up over it but I do believe in expressing my opinion rather than bottling it up, that opinion being there are a large number of cyclists that should never have been allowed to have a bike before being taught the rudimentary rules of the road, but sure that won't hurt they're only cyclists after all

Pinch Flat · 27-05-2014 12:43am

Spook_ie wrote: »

I don't get worked up over it but I do believe in expressing my opinion rather than bottling it up, that opinion being there are a large number of cyclists that should never have been allowed to have a bike before being taught the rudimentary rules of the road, but sure that won't hurt they're only cyclists after all

Fair enough, there's plenty of drivers out there who never sat a driving test and thousands of provisional drivers who are on the road unaccompanied. But hey that's life.

If you're to get my opinion, I would advocate cycle craft as a mandatory course in school as well as having all provisional drivers do some time on the road as a cyclist. Notwithstanding the fact that a huge number of cyclists also drive (I know sounds mad and blows a lot if motorists minds), this would knock the common argument that drivers have that cyclists are somehow unqualified to use the road. Not that it's translated through to perfect driving standards, mind you.

No Pants · 27-05-2014 6:27am

Patww79 wrote: »

Cyclists are given a free run to get away with murder, and they are a huge hazard to all around them because of this.

A murderous hazard...got it.

How is it still safe for you to drive?

desertcircus · 27-05-2014 7:16am

Spook_ie wrote: »

Someone being reckless on a cycle doesn't ultimately transfer into pain, injury or death for that person but often for someone entirley innocent getting caught up in the results of someone's reckless cycling, it does

So cyclists manage to maim other people while suffering no injury whatsoever despite being incredibly vulnerable and almost completely unprotected by safety features. This post has been informative, but not for the reason you hoped.

OldMrBrennan83 · 27-05-2014 7:19am

This post has been deleted.

Jawgap · 27-05-2014 7:36am

Spook_ie wrote: »

I don't hate cyclists I just dislike those that can't or won't follow the rules of the road. Unhappily it seems to be more and more of them with each passing week but I suppose that those who would like more cyclists on the road don't actually care if they are good or bad cyclists as long as they are on cycles

First, the 'rules of the road' are not binding, but road traffic legislation is......as they make clear in their opening paragraph

"The rules comply with and reflect the Road Traffic Law"

They are not traffic law.

The RotR are an interpretation of that legislation and one that is written in a very car-centric way.......as evidenced by the bright yellow box that concludes their introduction and includes the following statement.....

Driving is a life skill that requires lifelong learning.

EDIT: There is a lot of common sense in the RotR, but the RSA really let themselves down when in the part of their website that discusses cycling safety they still include this gem......."don’t get into shouting matches with motorists"

BTW, what about other road users that 'can't or won't follow the rules of the road'?

Why single out and focus on people who use bikes?

If your issue is with people who don't observe the rules, why focus on one group when the RotR (which you seem to think are more than they actually are) refer to "drivers, pedestrians, motorcyclists,
horse riders and cyclists" - (worth noting that in the RotR drivers are listed first, and cyclists last - that probably tells you all you need to know about the subliminal thinking behind the document).

Pinch Flat · 27-05-2014 9:10am

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Selfish in what way? many drivers use a vehicle that's 20% full to drive very short distances that could be covered easily by walking, cycling or public transport. They clog up the cities and towns as a result. Is this not selfish in the same way?

Danjamin1 · 27-05-2014 9:41am

It really bothers me when I see cyclists going through red lights or cycling up on the footpath, but what bothers me even more is seeing drivers still coming through a junction when the light's gone red. It's even more annoying when the people that are running the red light block lanes of traffic by sitting in the middle of the road waiting for the lane they were trying to get in to to clear (see any junction in Donnybrook at rush hour as a perfect example). I would say drivers are far more selfish road users considering a lot of them don't consider cyclists as valid road users.

paddyland · 27-05-2014 10:15am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Fixed that for you.. So you see it's all relative.. but don't let that stand in the way of a good Rant! :rolleyes:

Very clever, but since this is the cycling thread, my comments are reserved purely for cyclists. You might keep your very clever retort for the tractor/taxi/horse thread.

Danjamin1 · 27-05-2014 10:17am

paddyland wrote: »

Very clever, but since this is the cycling thread, my comments are reserved purely for cyclists. You might keep your very clever retort for the tractor/taxi/horse thread.

You missed the mod note did you?

And remember, this is a thread on the Commuting and Transport board, so talk about how transport modes compare is relevant and attempts to state otherwise and/or tell people what they can't or can talk about will be viewed as back seat modding.

Danjamin1 · 27-05-2014 10:19am

madra dubh wrote: »

Why do we tolerate them on our roads. I have been a cyclist, motorcyclist, car driver, van driver & minibus driver and by far the worst are cyclists. Colour blind (don't recognise traffic lights). They moan continually about other road users not being considerate yet a large amount make no effort to keep themselves seen and safe. Pay no road tax yet are allocated cycle lanes. Need no insurance yet can cause damage (ever tried to claim off one that is at fault). Motorcyclists tend to get a bad rap mainly due to speed but I have found them to be the best on the road for consideration and road awareness.
There can of worms opened.

And to go back to your very first post, no we should not be intolerant of cyclists, what we need is stricter enforcement of road traffic regulations for all road users.

paddyland · 27-05-2014 10:36am

Danjamin1 wrote: »

You missed the mod note did you?

I did miss the mod note, as when I returned, the thread was sixteen pages long, and I haven't enough interest in cycling to read all that. I shall retract my request to Tenzor07 to keep his comments for elsewhere.

My point still stands, that if I seem to be posting only about cyclists, it is because the thread is a cycling thread. I'll post about motorists in the motoring thread, and tractors in the tractor thread.

Danjamin1 · 27-05-2014 10:39am

paddyland wrote: »

I did miss the mod note, as when I returned, the thread was sixteen pages long, and I haven't enough interest in cycling to read all that. I shall retract my request to Tenzor07 to keep his comments for elsewhere.

My point still stands, that if I seem to be posting only about cyclists, it is because the thread is a cycling thread. I'll post about motorists in the motoring thread, and tractors in the tractor thread.

It's the commuting and transport forum though, if you wanted a strictly cycling thread you should have posted in the cycling forum. Although to be fair I can see why you wouldn't post your opening post in the cycling forum...

Seaswimmer · 27-05-2014 10:58am

Milly33 wrote: »

Think cyclist should have to do some course before being aloud cycle on the main roads anywho. Some are good be jaysus more are worse. Nearly knocked some chap off his bike going around a roudie bout as he cycled up the side of me on a very tight turn off he should have positioned himself in front of the car not at the side, Then you have the chaps the pros who speed around like theres no tomorrow don't even use bells to let you know they are coming up behind you when walking.. I have no problem with them once they too like drivers take caution and are sensible

A grammar and punctuation and spelling course should be a requirement before posting on boards:D

No Pants · 27-05-2014 11:20am

Patww79 wrote: »

Very very selfish group of people though, self righteousness personified.

Did you perhaps meet a cyclist or two who didn't appreciate your poor standard of driving and weren't at all reticent about sharing their opinion with you?

Danjamin1 · 27-05-2014 11:29am

Has anyone ever noticed how in these threads a general attitude of "we don't all do that" is mistaken for "it's ok to do that"? Someone always points out how cyclists as a group (because apparently we're a very organised group with a single mindset) defend wrongdoing on the roads when it's entirely the opposite!

Vet Thrower · 27-05-2014 11:45am

How would cyclists like it if they had to share their cycle lanes with hundreds of people on unicycles and skateboards and scooters?

Danjamin1 · 27-05-2014 11:46am

Vet Thrower wrote: »

How would cyclists like it if they had to share their cycle lanes with hundreds of people on unicycles and skateboards and scooters?

Are you suggesting the roads are for the sole use of motorised vehicles?

No Pants · 27-05-2014 11:47am

Vet Thrower wrote: »

scooters?

The motorised or non-motorised kind?

Seaswimmer · 27-05-2014 11:48am

Vet Thrower wrote: »

How would cyclists like it if they had to share their cycle lanes with hundreds of people on unicycles and skateboards and scooters?

Are you talking about the ones in the Phoenix Park, Clontarf, Metals in Dun Laoire, Kilbogget, Clonkeen Park or are there more..:rolleyes:

Vet Thrower · 27-05-2014 11:49am

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Are you suggesting the roads are for the sole use of motorised vehicles?

No. I didn't suggest anything. I asked a question. How would they like it?

monument · 27-05-2014 11:50am

Note thread title and updated mod warning in the opening post.

I still have not read the thread in full and am keeling the option of warning or infraction open for any rule breaking I have not seen.

As normal, please report trolling etc -- if you attempt to call people trolls you will be sanctioned your self for back seat modding.

- moderator

Vet Thrower · 27-05-2014 11:51am

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Are you talking about the ones in the Phoenix Park, Clontarf, Metals in Dun Laoire, Kilbogget, Clonkeen Park or are there more..:rolleyes:

I don't know any of those places. Are they in parks and mainly recreational areas, or on main roads?

No Pants · 27-05-2014 11:51am

Vet Thrower wrote: »

No. I didn't suggest anything. I asked a question. How would they like it?

I think it would be fun. Note that I almost never use cycle lanes, mostly because they aren't on the routes that I cycle, so they'd have to be on the road too.

Danjamin1 · 27-05-2014 11:51am

Vet Thrower wrote: »

No. I didn't suggest anything. I asked a question. How would they like it?

They deal with it all the time, some tolerate it, some get their knickers in a twist about it. They're purpose built/dedicated cycle lanes that cyclists have the option of using.

Jawgap · 27-05-2014 11:52am

Vet Thrower wrote: »

How would cyclists like it if they had to share their cycle lanes with hundreds of people on unicycles and skateboards and scooters?

First off, the lanes are not there for the sole an exclusive use of cyclists - nor is their use obligatory.

Second, if you want to know how cyclists feel about sharing a cycle lane with hundreds of people "on unicycles and skateboards and scooters" (as well as push chairs, dogs / children on leads, go-karts etc) take a trip up to the Phoenix Park or to the Clontarf cycle paths - you'll find the majority don't mind given it adds a nice vibe to the experience of being out in the open air, enjoying the weather.

Tenzor07 · 27-05-2014 11:53am

Vet Thrower wrote: »

How would cyclists like it if they had to share their cycle lanes with hundreds of people on unicycles and skateboards and scooters?

If you have ever cycled or walked around "Cycle-lanes" in the Phoenix park, and Clontarf>Sutton cycle track you will find that they are shared with people on Unicycles(yes I Have seen this), skateboards, inline roller-bladers, joggers, prams/buggys, and have seen younglads on Motorised scooters on a southside cycle-lane recently...

Seaswimmer · 27-05-2014 11:54am

Vet Thrower wrote: »

I don't know any of those places. Are they in parks and mainly recreational areas, or on main roads?

What difference does it make?

But bar maybe the unicycles, what you describe is a regular occurence on most cycle lanes.

Macy0161 · 27-05-2014 12:01pm

Vet Thrower wrote: »

How would cyclists like it if they had to share their cycle lanes with hundreds of people on unicycles and skateboards and scooters?

Add in people walking their dogs, walking, power walking and jogging, and that's pretty much every cycle path I've ever used - either in parks and on main roads tbh. Most "cycle" paths are nothing more than a line painted down the middle of the footpath, but even where they are properly seperated (e.g. along the grand canal) they are free for all in my experience. Hence why it's safer to be on the road.

Pinch Flat · 27-05-2014 12:01pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

If you have ever cycled or walked around "Cycle-lanes" in the Phoenix park, and Clontarf>Sutton cycle track you will find that they are shared with people on Unicycles(yes I Have seen this), skateboards, inline roller-bladers, joggers, prams/buggys, and have seen younglads on Motorised scooters on a southside cycle-lane recently...

Myself and my 7 year old decided to have one of long over due 'adventure days' on Sunday last, where we set off on foot or bike and see where the journey takes us.

We live quite close to the Phoenix Park, so this was decided upon as a destination - we packed our bags and set off on our bikes. Picnic, ice cream and check out Africa Day on the way back was the plan.

I hadn't been on the cycling track on the Phoenix Park in quite a while, but the six foot wide signs reminding people that pedestrians are not allowed (there's path that runs parallel in these cases for pedestrians), along with pictures of bikes interspersed every 200 hundred metres, I thought would be enough to remind people.

None of it. We must have used the bell on the bike about 20 - 30 times to politely move people - groups of walkers, dog walkers, roller bladers, pram walking families. What was surprising was the amount of people that were happy to engage with verbally abusive expletive ridden 'afters'.

It's a father and a son enjoying a Sunday cycle FFS - try walking up the middle of the road in the Park and see how you get on.

Vet Thrower · 27-05-2014 12:02pm

Jawgap wrote: »

First off, the lanes are not there for the sole an exclusive use of cyclists - nor is their use obligatory.

Second, if you want to know how cyclists feel about sharing a cycle lane with hundreds of people "on unicycles and skateboards and scooters" (as well as push chairs, dogs / children on leads, go-karts etc) take a trip up to the Phoenix Park or to the Clontarf cycle paths - you'll find the majority don't mind given it adds a nice vibe to the experience of being out in the open air, enjoying the weather.

What about outside of recreational areas? How would you like them on your commute? Slowing you down, swerving out in front of you without warning, etc?

corktina · 27-05-2014 12:05pm

Jawgap wrote: »

First off, the lanes are not there for the sole an exclusive use of cyclists - nor is their use obligatory.

Second, if you want to know how cyclists feel about sharing a cycle lane with hundreds of people "on unicycles and skateboards and scooters" (as well as push chairs, dogs / children on leads, go-karts etc) take a trip up to the Phoenix Park or to the Clontarf cycle paths - you'll find the majority don't mind given it adds a nice vibe to the experience of being out in the open air, enjoying the weather.

Many cycle lanes are in fact for the sole use of cyclists and they are designated by a solid rather than broken line

Danjamin1 · 27-05-2014 12:05pm

Vet Thrower wrote: »

What about outside of recreational areas? How would you like them on your commute? Slowing you down, swerving out in front of you without warning, etc?

They're traits of all road users

Pinch Flat · 27-05-2014 12:06pm

Vet Thrower wrote: »

What about outside of recreational areas? How would you like them on your commute? Slowing you down, swerving out in front of you without warning, etc?

It's complete news to me that bikes are used for recreational purposes only. Have I being doing it wrong all these years? And guess what - a lot of people cycle to work and have done for years. And guess what else (this one really blows people's minds!) - they have a car.

I'm held up every morning going through Lucan - it's clogged with traffic from the Strawberry Beds to the Lucan Flyover at Woodies. Slows me down no end. Would be much handier if I could chuck through there at 30km/hr odd. And guess what? the odd cars swerves in front of me as well. Jesus, I need to sit down after that....

Cyclists mega-thread (WARNING: Before posting you must read post #1)

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