Irish Rail MK3 Coaches - North Wall Update

GMKK96 · 27-08-2014 8:07pm

077 hauling a North Wall to Inchicore mk3 trainsfer including DVT 6105.

sporty56 · 28-08-2014 6:38pm

Temp101,

Any idea of why North Wall needs to be cleared ? Wonder if it's anything to do with NAMA about to release nearby properties for development ?

Captain Chaos · 28-08-2014 7:11pm

sporty56 wrote: »

Temp101,

Any idea of why North Wall needs to be cleared ? Wonder if it's anything to do with NAMA about to release nearby properties for development ?

You had Mk3s just sitting there for 4 years, no one wanted them and and as the years went by they got into a state that it would cost too much to return them to service even if they were needed or wanted back.

Same with Dundalk and Waterford.

Temp101 · 29-08-2014 9:01am

sporty56 wrote: »

Temp101,

Any idea of why North Wall needs to be cleared ? Wonder if it's anything to do with NAMA about to release nearby properties for development ?

I believe at one stage it was intended to store surplus wagons there, but I'm not sure how that plan is situated now, given the length of time it has eventually taken to get the Mk.3's out.

end of the road · 29-08-2014 1:47pm

Temp101 wrote: »

I believe at one stage it was intended to store surplus wagons there, but I'm not sure how that plan is situated now, given the length of time it has eventually taken to get the Mk.3's out.

in fairness the mark 3 bio degrade program had to be extended and i think those wagons are scrapped now but i can't confirm

h.gricer · 29-08-2014 7:11pm

Temp101 wrote: »

I believe at one stage it was intended to store surplus wagons there, .

I would more expect the arrival of 2700 railcars, sooner or later.

Regards
h.gricer

Losty Dublin · 30-08-2014 12:17pm

h.gricer wrote: »

I would more expect the arrival of 2700 railcars, sooner or later.

Regards
h.gricer

What? And take them out of their cosy dry shed into a cold wet year? The cruelty of it all, H Gricer, the cruelty

Captain Chaos · 31-08-2014 11:01am

Or dump the withdrawn 201s down there. We all know they will never be used again.

Deutschbahn · 17-09-2014 2:20pm

Another video of the Mk3's on transfer to Belfast for scrapping for anyone interested. It consisted of 1 egv, 3 passenger cars and 2 restaurant cars pass on service from Northwall to Dundalk and then to Adelaide. 201 no.224 was pulling them as far as Dundalk.

youtube.com /watch?v=TGj2lw86f-U

SpaceTime · 18-09-2014 12:44am

To insert YouTube clips

Type [ youtube ] TGj2lw86f-U [ / youtube]

Just without the spaces.

flyingsnail · 18-09-2014 10:07am

SpaceTime wrote: »

To insert YouTube clips

Type [ youtube ] TGj2lw86f-U [ / youtube]

Just without the spaces.

I dont think he can post anything with a proper link in it until he has 50 posts.

Deutschbahn · 18-09-2014 9:28pm

Unfortunately I cannot. Thanks for the heads up anyway

MGWR · 20-09-2014 4:01pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Or dump the withdrawn 201s down there. We all know they will never be used again

Not even with the economy having expanded by over seven percent?

The Irish are going to have to start reminding the government that they serve the people, not the other way around.

corktina · 20-09-2014 4:06pm

I'd say rather than spending money on them, dump them and buy power cars for the Mk4s

Captain Chaos · 20-09-2014 4:49pm

MGWR wrote: »

Not even with the economy having expanded by over seven percent?

The Irish are going to have to start reminding the government that they serve the people, not the other way around.

They can't can't be used for anything. They can't couple up to the Mk4 or Enterprise stock or have the equipment to work them. All they can be used for is freight only. As it is Irish rail have more 201s than they need for freight and Mk4 runs.

corktina · 20-09-2014 5:20pm

I think the inference was they might need more with the economy improving

goingnowhere · 20-09-2014 5:22pm

All 201's can haul a Mk4 or Enterprise set. All have the push pull and HEP equipment (all the buttons and switches are there on the entire fleet). Certainly been a low numbered 201 caught pushing a Mk3 push pull set around

Its the pushing where things get tricky, just needs a change of the coupler really

SpaceTime · 20-09-2014 6:25pm

Power cars for the MK4 and the enterprise woild make a LOT of sense ans basically make them DMUs of a sort.

I wonder if a single spec could be used for the MK4 and de Dietrich coaches.
I'm sure the de Dietrich coaches could be upgraded to operate at higher speed too.

Captain Chaos · 20-09-2014 8:40pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

All 201's can haul a Mk4 or Enterprise set. All have the push pull and HEP equipment (all the buttons and switches are there on the entire fleet). Certainly been a low numbered 201 caught pushing a Mk3 push pull set around

Actually no they can't. A Mk4 set requires the knuckle coupler to be fitted and the buffers retracted, DD stock requires the Dellner coupler and retracted buffers.

201-205 and 210-214 do not have retractable buffers so they can't get close enough to the stock for the couplers to engage without causing buffer lock.

Also those 201s don't have removable screw couplers to allow a knuckle or Dellner to be fitted and removed as needed compared to the rest of the 201s where the screw chain is just resting on the draw hook and can be lifted on and off as needed.

end of the road · 20-09-2014 9:25pm

i'd agree about power cars, however IE shouldn't be able to dump those locos at all. we payed for them and its about time IE were forced to sort out any issues with our rolling stock. to much has been dumped all ready because IE seem to think rolling stock are toys they can throw away when they get board. they could at least put some type of covering over them to at least try protect them from the elements if they haven't all ready. sadly the 071 isn't going to last forever so maybe they will be needed at some stage.

MoeJay · 17-10-2014 7:52am

I spotted half a Mk3 heading north on the back of a truck on the M1 yesterday....

Captain Chaos · 17-10-2014 9:38pm

MoeJay wrote: »

I spotted half a Mk3 heading north on the back of a truck on the M1 yesterday....

I think that was the one just left in the yard at Northwall for months after being cut in half and it's bogies removed much earlier. Don't know why one half was just left behind on it's side for so long and not taken with the rest.

Jamie2k9 · 18-10-2014 1:42pm

Spotted 3 coaches at Inchicore yesterday (beside the mainlines), two were the Waterford coaches (I think) but couldn't see what the other one was. Possibly a DVT, if so are they keeping the DVT as well?

Captain Chaos · 18-10-2014 2:26pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Spotted 3 coaches at Inchicore yesterday (beside the mainlines), two were the Waterford coaches (I think) but couldn't see what the other one was. Possibly a DVT, if so are they keeping the DVT as well?

As far as I know the ITG are getting the DVT. Reportedly the will just store it and not actually try to run it with anything. Shame really.

There is a rake of standards being kept for someone with deep pockets who bought the set. No one really knows who it is or where the coaches are going to end up.

corktina · 18-10-2014 3:54pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

As far as I know the ITG are getting the DVT. Reportedly the will just store it and not actually try to run it with anything. Shame really.

is that new info or the old rumour rehashed?

goingnowhere · 18-10-2014 5:17pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

There is a rake of standards being kept for someone with deep pockets who bought the set. No one really knows who it is or where the coaches are going to end up.

Irish Rail know.... And they have very deep pockets, they should have a DSO also (Mk3 is a Driving Standard Open, Mk4 is a proper DVT)

Captain Chaos · 18-10-2014 8:16pm

corktina wrote: »

is that new info or the old rumour rehashed?

That's just the same info from months back. The way I see it is, the DVT is basically useless now without modification work as all the 6300 coaches have been scrapped.

It's not really a DSO either as it has un undeerfloor genny to power the lights, doors and air suspension for itself and up to 5 other 6300 vehicles.

Only theory I have for it is to modify it by removing it's genny and turning it into a true DSO to work with the rake that is being kept and making it compatible with the the sole surviving EGV, 7601 that was stored at Dundalk. 8208 hauled it back to Inchicore after everything else was scrapped.

goingnowhere · 18-10-2014 8:28pm

Our deep pocketed friends want a DSO...

They are well aware the 6100 generator isn't up to a full length train

Jamie2k9 · 18-10-2014 8:50pm

It's not really a DSO either as it has un undeerfloor genny to power the lights, doors and air suspension for itself and up to 5 other 6300 vehicles.

Able to power 6 but ideally 5 would be the limit. 2 sets were 5 and 1 was 6.

Our deep pocketed friends want a DSO...

They are well aware the 6100 generator isn't up to a full length train

If their pockets are so deep I'm sure they could splash the cash for improvements.

Seriously how would IE of charged per coach (rough cost) considering the condition?

end of the road · 18-10-2014 10:26pm

i suppose there is nothing left of the international set?

Captain Chaos · 18-10-2014 10:49pm

end of the road wrote: »

i suppose there is nothing left of the international set?

That was the first to go as far as I recall.

21-10-2014 6:00pm

So I see from the photo thread, thanks to The Wanderer, that 6402, 7146 and 6105 are off to Moyasta. 7146 wouldn't work with the other two without modification I'm sure. 6402 is the Interfleet refurbed Cafe/Bar car. Interesting choice, a unique one.

Judgement Day · 21-10-2014 6:18pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Our deep pocketed friends want a DSO...

They are well aware the 6100 generator isn't up to a full length train

Why all the mystery?

goingnowhere · 21-10-2014 7:00pm

Its called respecting the desire for privacy of the entity involved.

A number of Mk3 carriages have been reserved for future use, the exact use is unknown, multiple possible options

Grandeeod · 21-10-2014 7:03pm

Longest funeral ever.

Judgement Day · 21-10-2014 7:21pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Its called respecting the desire for privacy of the entity involved.

A number of Mk3 carriages have been reserved for future use, the exact use is unknown, multiple possible options

It's called trying to be very clever about knowing something that nobody else knows.

Salmon Leap · 21-10-2014 7:37pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Why all the mystery?

Indeed! It's not as if they can "hide" them when they officially take possession of the rake.

Jamie2k9 · 21-10-2014 11:38pm

6402 is the Interfleet refurbed Cafe/Bar car. Interesting choice, a unique one.

One of the nicest coaches, it make the other "restaurant" coaches look a really bad from lighting, seating and overall comfort. They had lots of trouble most of the fridges/oven etc lasted weeks. Guessing a power issue considering it was an extra coach on top of the catering.

Wasn't it the only accessible toilet on the Mark 3 fleet also.

Grandeeod · 22-10-2014 7:54pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Its called respecting the desire for privacy of the entity involved.

A number of Mk3 carriages have been reserved for future use, the exact use is unknown, multiple possible options

Apart from IE and the buyer, does anyone here know who bought them and why?

Grandeeod · 22-10-2014 7:58pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Its called respecting the desire for privacy of the entity involved.

A number of Mk3 carriages have been reserved for future use, the exact use is unknown, multiple possible options

Apart from IE and the buyer, does anyone here know who bought them and why?

csd · 22-10-2014 8:29pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Apart from IE and the buyer, does anyone here know who bought them and why?

I have no first-hand information, but if other forums are to be believed, the new owners are the Venice Simplon Orient Express company (VSOE). No idea what they plan to use it for or if the rumours are even true.

/csd

Grandeeod · 22-10-2014 8:50pm

csd wrote: »

I have no first-hand information, but if other forums are to be believed, the new owners are the Venice Simplon Orient Express company (VSOE). No idea what they plan to use it for or if the rumours are even true.

/csd

Seriously?

Cookie_Monster · 22-10-2014 9:06pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Apart from IE and the buyer, does anyone here know who bought them and why?

If Ireland had the correct attitude to preserving it's transport history that the answer is absolutely yes to ensure it's treated as the historical asset it should be. But unfortunately nobody in the government nor CIE care in the slightest...

Given the are going to Moyasta to basically dumped in a field, there should be questions asked tbh.

Captain Chaos · 22-10-2014 9:16pm

VSOE thing is a joke that was taken as truth by some. It's pure fantasy.

Judgement Day · 22-10-2014 9:29pm

Of course, if some other operator were to come in and use the stock on the Irish railway system it would show IE's ditching the rest of the fleet for what it was - absolutely criminal! This is the only reason that I'm interested in getting to the bottom of it.

whisky_galore · 22-10-2014 10:17pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If Ireland had the correct attitude to preserving it's transport history that the answer is absolutely yes to ensure it's treated as the historical asset it should be. But unfortunately nobody in the government nor CIE care in the slightest...

Given the are going to Moyasta to basically dumped in a field, there should be questions asked tbh.

For the 1,000th time, it's not up to CIE/IE to preserve anything! Facilitate and engage with interested preservation groups ..yes. Anything else is superfluous. The function of CIE/IE/IR or whatever you want to call them is just to provide a decent modern transport service that's fit for the public to use.
Whatever about the government, I think it's pretty clear that the general public in the ROI does not have the same level of interest in rolling up sleeves and/or putting its hand in its pockets to pursue heritage minded projects (and not just railways) as the uk does...chalk/cheese. That's just the way it is, the national mindset, get used to it.

If the gentleman in the WCR wants to purchase coaches and leave them rotting in a field.... that's entirely his affair. However, perhaps the WCR could do with a more 'authentic' narrow gauge atmosphere instead of gathering items of limited use detracting from the rest of what is supposed to be a working museum. You don't see the Ffestiniog or the Talyllyn mucking around with ex BR standard gauge items. Afraid they'll end up like the other half-baked, ill thought out junkyards...sorry...'industrial heritage attractions' up and down the country.

end of the road · 22-10-2014 10:25pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Whatever about the government, I think it's pretty clear that the general public in the ROI does not have the same level of interest in rolling up sleeves and/or putting its hand in its pockets to pursue anything as the uk does...

fixed

whisky_galore wrote: »

That's just the way it is, the national mindset, get used to it.

no we won't get used to it, the mindset should be forcibly changed

whisky_galore wrote: »

Afraid they'll end up like the other half-baked, ill thought out junkyards...sorry...'industrial heritage attractions' up and down the country.

industrial heritage attractions' who are actually bothering to do their bit who can't get the volunteers. yet you call them "ill thought out junk yards" . at least they are doing their bit. maybe offer your services and help them to become better?

whisky_galore · 22-10-2014 10:30pm

end of the road wrote: »

no we won't get used to it, the mindset should be forcibly changed

Knock yourself out.

Grandeeod · 22-10-2014 10:44pm

Yeah, we all know about what went to moyasta. Loads of photos of those poor things heading for an extended death. But I'm curious about the other set that has a "mystery" buyer. This is what needs clarification without all the Sherlock holmes ****e.

SpaceTime · 23-10-2014 11:36am

Buying a set of light powercars, doing a refurbishment and rewire might have extended their life for quite a while.

I'm not sure that the MK4s made a whole lot of sense without buying powercars either though. That was a huge mistake.

One of the biggest issues that I've heard about anyway seems to be the 201 locomotives causing excessive track wear. They were obviously a mistake from day one as the spec could have been a lot better andb gentler on the infrastructure.

Irish Rail MK3 Coaches - North Wall Update

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