The end of Bok rugby as we know it is nigh

ThomasH · 19-10-2007 9:26pm

I was born and raised in SA so hopefully farmiliar with the country

so if you looked at the team playing on sat i would bet more than 80% went to private schools.

Actually John Smith, Juan Smith, BJ Botha, Francois Steyn, Butch James, Percy Montgomery, JP Pietersen, Bakkies Both, Bryan Habana, Wikus van Heerden, Victor Matfield, Danie Rossouw, CJ van der Linde, Schalk Burger, Fourie du Preez and Jaque Fourie all went to public schools.

yes but the majority of blacks in south africa play soccer.they hate the springok team becuase they feel it represents the opressing whites of SA.and so they have no desire to play rugby.they all support new zealand.

Where did you get this? Did you actually went and asked every black person in SA this question.:rolleyes:

and my point is still completely valid,is rugby in ireland played only by private schools?no
public schools play aswell.but how many of the irish team went to private schools?i would say about 80%

Don't confuse Ireland's culture where in the early days only people from blackrock who went to private schools played rugby and were better rugby players than players in public schools with SA's culture. Rugby is played with the same passion and pride you get in public and private schools and more than 90% of the existing boks players were in public schools.

yes the coaching is better in private schools and most blacks in SA dont go to private schools,so they dont get as good coaching,coupled with the fact that most of them dont even want to play rugby for aforementioned reasons,is the reason its mostly whites

You will be surprised since 1991 how many coloureds actually do go to private schools.

Stev_o · 19-10-2007 9:27pm

Id say that Aussies are kicking their heels that they wont be bossed in the scrum by the Boks for a few years

Supercell · 19-10-2007 9:42pm

Rugby looses with this, public private has no bearing.
The pest players should play, simple as that, its how all the other nations are.
If the best players are white or black, should make no bloody difference.

SA will not be fielding their best players after this world cup, and the world game looses out..and perhaps it's best that the proud Springboks go out winning before they are replaced by mediocrity and a new elbum .

toomevara · 19-10-2007 11:06pm

Stev_o wrote: »

Id say that Aussies are kicking their heels that they wont be bossed in the scrum by the Boks for a few years

Wouldn't bet on it, the Sisters of Mercy Big Girls Blouse second XV would give the wallabies pause for thought, hell even the Irish set piece might trouble them....

dc69 · 20-10-2007 2:18am

ThomasH wrote: »

I was born and raised in SA so hopefully farmiliar with the country

Actually John Smith, Juan Smith, BJ Botha, Francois Steyn, Butch James, Percy Montgomery, JP Pietersen, Bakkies Both, Bryan Habana, Wikus van Heerden, Victor Matfield, Danie Rossouw, CJ van der Linde, Schalk Burger, Fourie du Preez and Jaque Fourie all went to public schools.

Where did you get this? Did you actually went and asked every black person in SA this question.:rolleyes:

Don't confuse Ireland's culture where in the early days only people from blackrock who went to private schools played rugby and were better rugby players than players in public schools with SA's culture. Rugby is played with the same passion and pride you get in public and private schools and more than 90% of the existing boks players were in public schools.

You will be surprised since 1991 how many coloureds actually do go to private schools.

i accept you would know more than me,when i was over there staying in a guys house this is what he told me.it is also a well known fact that most blacks in SA hate the rugby team as it has not really changed since apartheid ended,has it?a south african was on newstalk last night saying it

can you name the players in the squad that did go to private schools(there must be a few) then,cause tbh i dont understand how you could know that all those players didnt?:)

Irish Wolf · 20-10-2007 2:38am

Longfield wrote: »

Back to rugby - even the Springbok will be no more after this world cup..its apparently going to be some flower..apparently the Springbok..an animal that walks the SA soil is considered to be too white tainted or something..so they are going for some flower..Honestly its so crazy you couldnt make this stuff up.

QFT.

They did the same to the cricket team when they made them change the badge from a Springbok to a Protea...

It's sad to see.

mikeruurds · 20-10-2007 9:13am

dc69 wrote: »

i accept you would know more than me,when i was over there staying in a guys house this is what he told me.it is also a well known fact that most blacks in SA hate the rugby team as it has not really changed since apartheid ended,has it?a south african was on newstalk last night saying it

can you name the players in the squad that did go to private schools(there must be a few) then,cause tbh i dont understand how you could know that all those players didnt?:)

The only blacks who hate the rugby team are the ones that aren't rugby fans and are still living in the past. There's just no pleasing some people. There will always be white people in SA no matter how certain bitter politicians try and erase any evidence of our existence. I wouldn't say that the majority of black people hate the boks. I'd actually estimate that it is a small minority of them. It's these guys who are not interested in transformation or reconciliation. They don't support Nelson's "rainbow nation" vision... they prefer the tyrannical Mugabe's plundering method. They are massive racists.

This Bhutana fellow just hates anything associated with white people. Contrary to his opinion, black people are not prevented from playing for the boks. In fact they're encouraged. He's just clueless as to what it takes to grow black rugby talent. It takes years. You can't just give a black kid a full rugby kit, a decent coach and expect to have a Francois Steyn after 2 years. Most of the guys in the SA team have been playing rugby since the age of 5 or 6. You have to possess a rare talent to play for SA. There are so many guys who play rugby in school who never get further than school rugby. I know this happens everywhere, but there are thousands of schools in SA where rugby is played, both private and public, some not so great and some are as good as elite academies (Affies, Paarl Gym, Grey College Bloem and PE). It's not the same as here in Ireland where it is played in private schools. In fact, some of the best rugby Schools in SA are public schools. First team school rugby is usually sponsored by corporations, so the public schools are not cash strapped and can afford to buy all the latest training gear for their players.

Transformation has to start now with millions of Rands needed to develop skills in under 10 black rugby so that the kids can be given the core skills from a young age. You can't just stick average club or provincial players into the SA team and expect them to produce the goods. Failure at that level can end careers more easily than it will make them.

I don't want to be paranoid, but I think that continued pressure from the politicians is going to dramatically change springbok rugby. The Springbok name and symbol will go soon to be replaced by a Protea or something else devoid of history and passion.

ThomasH · 20-10-2007 10:01am

i accept you would know more than me,when i was over there staying in a guys house this is what he told me.it is also a well known fact that most blacks in SA hate the rugby team as it has not really changed since apartheid ended,has it?a south african was on newstalk last night saying it

can you name the players in the squad that did go to private schools(there must be a few) then,cause tbh i dont understand how you could know that all those players didnt?

See Mikeruurds answer.

You can look it up yourself regarding players that went to private schools.

The reason why I know is because the schools these players attented are very well known throughout SA. Also, each players profile is available to the public and it includes to what school they have attended. These well-know schools as Mikeruurds already mentioned Affies, Paarl Gym, Grey College Bloem and PE are all public schools and in the top 10 rugby schools in the country. I also used to play rugby against these schools.

There would also be a lot of wealthy parents involved in the schools so between sponsorships, parents donations, etc. they can afford to have the best of everything.

Here is a website with players profile:
http://www.whoswhosa.co.za/Pages/ListRugby.aspx

Jack Sheehan · 20-10-2007 11:40pm

I'm sorry but this is patently ridiculous, is the point of equality supposed to be that we don't see colour, not that 'Ok he opressed me for donkey years so now lets get our own back'.

Personally I think that no one choosing a rugby team should give a flying **** about colour and judge purely on merit, but hey I'm here in a cozy Dublin suburb, mabyr things are different in the SA asministration.

toomevara · 21-10-2007 11:16am

Well if last night was 'the end of Bok rugby as we know it' it was quite a swansong. To be honest the Bokke did the best thing they could in response to the alleged impending 'abokalypse' by winning the competition.

Reckon the whole thing is being overstated anyway, don't think the Boks will be going anywhere soon....Just check out the scenes from Jo'burg on TV, total euphoria, black and white...it'll be a brave politician who meddles with that....

mikeruurds · 21-10-2007 11:45am

toomevara wrote: »

Well if last night was 'the end of Bok rugby as we know it' it was quite a swansong. To be honest the Bokke did the best thing they could in response to the alleged impending 'abokalypse' by winning the competition.

Reckon the whole thing is being overstated anyway, don't think the Boks will be going anywhere soon....Just check out the scenes from Jo'burg on TV, total euphoria, black and white...it'll be a brave politician who meddles with that....

I hope you're right my friend.

toomevara · 21-10-2007 12:38pm

mikeruurds wrote: »

I hope you're right my friend.

Really hope I'm right too, world rugby without the Boks would be unthinkable..Just finished reading this interesting article in today's Observer Re: the situation in SA, a bit of an eye opener...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2195926,00.html

Hmm sorry about that I seem to have inadvertantly put in a link that shows two elephants humping, it was not, repeat not, a satirical comment on SA rugby...I'm such a mook...fixed now

mikeruurds · 21-10-2007 1:12pm

toomevara wrote: »

Really hope I'm right too, world rugby without the Boks would be unthinkable..Just finished reading this interesting article in today's Observer Re: the situation in SA, a bit of an eye opener...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2195926,00.html

Hmm sorry about that I seem to have inadvertantly put in a link that shows two elephants humping, it was not, repeat not, a satirical comment on SA rugby...I'm such a mook...fixed now

Cheers for that. It was a good read and 100% accurate. Transformation needs to happen from the bottom up. The only problem is that actually doing something to fix the problem takes too much work and it's so much easier to put up a little window dressing by demanding that a certain number of black players be on the field at any one time.

That kind of tokenism will make SA rugby a joke.

ThomasH · 21-10-2007 1:57pm

Very interesting article about this discussion in today's Sunday Independent, worth a read. I thought it hit the nail on the head.

purple'n'gold · 21-10-2007 2:43pm

I read on a the BBC 666 football page that in future the South African rugby team will have to have more black players. To reflect the ratio of the population. Surely if this is true it would be a disaster for rugby in south Africa and lead to their rapid demise as a power in the sport?

county · 21-10-2007 2:45pm

theres a thread all ready disscussing this issue

chris85 · 21-10-2007 2:50pm

I dont think it will last that long as the population will not want a bad team of theirs on the pitch. i do think it will last a couple of year, possibly to the next world cup but no longer.

The south african nation have made rugby elitist that only the middle and upper classes play. It just so happens that these people are majority white. They need to help the black community, which so happens to be mainly in the lower classes, to be more involved in the game.

If they want coloured people playing on the national team more they should invest in them and make sure they are good enough, and that they get picked for the game based on being the best and not being a certain colour.

purple'n'gold · 21-10-2007 2:52pm

county wrote: »

theres a thread all ready disscussing this issue

Yes you're correct, sorry about that, did'nt notice.

RuggieBear · 21-10-2007 2:53pm

merge.

Marshy · 07-11-2007 12:31pm

Perhaps theres light at the end of the tunnel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/front_page/7082466.stm

bugler · 07-11-2007 4:40pm

The removal of quotas (I'm taking this news at face value and assume there'll be no behind the scenes interference), is great news for world rugby and especially for SA.

Leon11 · 07-11-2007 6:02pm

I'd say Argentina will be kicking themselves at this announcement. They were in a great position to enter the tri nations if South Africa were going to be such a weakened side. On the plus side it's great news for world rugby. It would have been a shame to deprive SA players the chance to play for their country due to racial quotas.

Endurance Man · 10-11-2007 7:56pm

Very good news, also means we have a hope of retaining the trophy in 2011 : D

mikeruurds · 11-11-2007 4:20pm

I hope this isn't the usual smoke and mirrors that we are used to. Now all they need to do is confirm that Boks playing overseas will be eligible for selection.

If they do that then all is looking rosy for the future.

Snickers Man · 13-11-2007 2:29pm

mikeruurds wrote: »

I hope this isn't the usual smoke and mirrors that we are used to.

In fact, eh, I think you meant to say "smokes and daggers" there, hah?

The end of Bok rugby as we know it is nigh

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