Democracy is a farce and a sham.

Jimmy Garlic · 26-05-2013 5:23pm #1

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

The Backwards Man · 26-05-2013 5:24pm

Poll needed.

orestes · 26-05-2013 5:26pm

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

Democracy doesn't give power to the people, it gives people the right to elect their representatives. Just sayin'

Dave! · 26-05-2013 5:26pm

You realise that if all the apathetic goons who don't vote (because "they're all the same") all decided to get together and start a political party, or else voted for an unrepresented party, then they would elect a government?

So blame yourselves.

Citycap · 26-05-2013 5:30pm

When you see what has obsessed politicians over the last two weeks i.e Shatter and Wallace, you would wish for a Mussolini type to go in and finish them all off.
Irish democracy is very bad probably because of the false difference between FG and FF which prevents a proper right/left political system

mikemac1 · 26-05-2013 5:31pm

Citycap wrote: »

wish for a Mussolini type

And Irish Rail would start running on time too

Jonny7 · 26-05-2013 5:39pm

There are a few non-democratic countries in the world you can go and live in..

buuut I'm guessing you'd feel 100 times safer and more comfortable, with more rights, equality, options, opportunities, education, security and so on in this one

Peregrine · 26-05-2013 5:41pm

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

So what do you propose?

I'm always fascinated by people who say democracy doesn't work. What's the alternative?

Also we're not really a "democracy" to be precise. I can't think of any countries that are to be honest. Most countries have adopt representative form of democracy.

Snakeblood · 26-05-2013 5:42pm

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

Well, this has certainly shattered my worldview.

My name is URL · 26-05-2013 5:48pm

Meh.. I'll take a poorly functioning democracy over a fascist regime that runs well.

The problem isn't with democracy in Ireland, it's with the stupidly insular, overly reverent and unquestioning plebs that it consists of.

When you see what has obsessed politicians over the last two weeks i.e Shatter and Wallace

And on that.. I wonder what will come of it. Will any Gardai lose their jobs or be taken to task for disclosing information to Shatter so he could further his own political agenda? Will Shatter or Wallace be genuinely expected to resign for their many fcuk-ups and blatant misleading of the electorate? No.. just like everything else in Ireland, it'll be swept aside in order to protect those with a bestowed power. If it's not priests being protected it's politicians and Gardai.

If the same sort of things were happening in the UK, people would be fired at best.. and likely have criminal charges brought against them. They certainly wouldn't be protected by their parties. But here?.. way too much respect shown to our 'superiors'.. the inevitable circling of the wagons whenever an individual screws up, and the acceptance of it all by the public. It's pathetic, but it still beats any other system of governance. Imagine the same sort of tools ruling us in an unelected capacity.

Corkfeen · 26-05-2013 5:49pm

Citycap wrote: »

When you see what has obsessed politicians over the last two weeks i.e Shatter and Wallace, you would wish for a Mussolini type to go in and finish them all off.
Irish democracy is very bad probably because of the false difference between FG and FF which prevents a proper right/left political system

I've never wished for a Mussolini type character tbh.

Am Chile · 26-05-2013 5:51pm

This so called democracy when you vote once every five years-you are not voting to decide on the issues at hand- you are voting on who gets to decide on the issues for you-they can say one thing pre election we wont cut child benefit labour pre election 2011- or fine gael we wont close roscommon hospital pre election 2011-then post election do a complete u turn on pre election promises and there is no consequences for breaking pre election promises- so I can see and understand why a lot of people dont bother voting feeling they re all the same-I think we need direct democracy to certain decree plus the ability to able to recall politicians if pre election promises get broken-before anyone might bring up direct democracy ireland- no I am not a member nor a supporter of them because of their links to the freeman movement-but I am supporter of direct democracy to a degree.

hyperborean · 26-05-2013 5:54pm

Your just weak, only the strong prosper, the rest are saps that do nothing but moan.

bradlente · 26-05-2013 5:55pm

Leader's want to stay in power,Regardless of what type of government empower's them.The difference between Democracy and most other form's of government is that in order to stay in power,Leader's have to start initiative's and create scheme's that more-or-less help a good portion of people,Because in order to stay in power in a democracy far more people are needed than say,A dictatorship.
A Dictatorship may only need a handful of people to retain power for decade's.So instead of a larger portion of people needing attention in order to stay in power,A leader really only need look after a very small group of people.These can be replaced(maybe murdered)at any given time so as to avoid someone else challenging for power.The majority don't matter as they have no influence in whose in power and can be easily oppressed by the powerful few.

As far as Democracy being a farce and a sham,I'd rather it than any other form of government that's ever been invented.

Reekwind · 26-05-2013 6:02pm

Dave! wrote: »

You realise that if all the apathetic goons who don't vote (because "they're all the same") all decided to get together and start a political party, or else voted for an unrepresented party, then they would elect a government?

So blame yourselves.

I don't like RTE. I'm going to go establish a rival national broadcaster that will be far better. Can you lend me a few hundred million to build the infrastructure and staff I need to compete?

See the problem? The reason that not everyone goes out to build a national political party is because it's an expensive and difficult proposition. Breaking the stranglehold of the established parties (with their funds, political machines, connections within the state apparatus, political machines and patronage networks) is not something you can do lightly. The only party that really achieved this, and emerged as a 'credible' alternative to traditional parties, in the history of the State was the PDs. Note the past tense.

Besides, it's difficult to break through a system that is run on clientelism. A bit like winning the Tour de France without doping

blueser · 26-05-2013 6:08pm

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

''And in breaking news; a joint team of scientists from UCD, Harvard and Oxford universities have today confirmed, after an exhaustive 10 year investigation, that water is indeed wet. More on this when we have it. Now, back to your scheduled programming...''

18AD · 26-05-2013 6:10pm

You haven't generalised enough. Politics is a farce and a sham.

martingriff · 26-05-2013 6:20pm

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

So its all the politicians fault not the people who vote for them.

Edit: What's the alternative

mattjack · 26-05-2013 6:27pm

martingriff wrote: »

So its all the politicians fault not the people who vote for them.

Edit: What's the alternative

Alternative ? alternative ? you can't handle the alternative.

How 'bout a Boards style dictatorship ?

CrazyRabbit · 26-05-2013 6:33pm

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Poll needed.

And I'll pay everyone €2 to vote that democracy is not a joke.

martingriff · 26-05-2013 6:39pm

mattjack wrote: »

Alternative ? alternative ? you can't handle the alternative.

How 'bout a Boards style dictatorship ?

Bags I am emperor:cool:

IM0 · 26-05-2013 6:46pm

a wise man once said, democracy isnt perfect, but its the best system we have so far

IM0 · 26-05-2013 6:47pm

martingriff wrote: »

Bags I am emperor:cool:

vice emperor!

Peregrine · 26-05-2013 6:50pm

IM0 wrote: »

vice emperor!

martingriff wrote: »

Bags I am emperor:cool:

I bag emperor's controlling mother!

I win.

Now to solve the whole being a male problem..

Zebra3 · 26-05-2013 6:54pm

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

If voting changed anything it would be declared illegal.

And power doesn't lie with the politicians, it lies with those whom control the supply of money.

Jimmy Garlic · 26-05-2013 6:59pm

martingriff wrote: »

So its all the politicians fault not the people who vote for them.

Edit: What's the alternative

Sortition. Political bodies that are statistically representative of the entire population and who are not career politicians. A microcosm of the population, men and women, young and old, rich and poor. People would be randomly selected much like jury service.

Could that be any worse than what we have now?

--Kaiser-- · 26-05-2013 7:05pm

Democracy is the worst form of government there is
...apart from all the other ones.....

martingriff · 26-05-2013 7:15pm

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Sortition. Political bodies that are statistically representative of the entire population and who are not career politicians. A microcosm of the population, men and women, young and old, rich and poor. People would be randomly selected much like jury service.

Could that be any worse than what we have now?

So ever few years (whenever election are) we have a new set of politicians. I mean they be part of some kind of party or body if you will. Is that not what we have already par the microcosm of the politician.

I mean lets me give you and example and please answer truthfully. You have 3 politicians going for a seat.

Politician A goes I won't make any promises but do the best if I am in government.

Politician B goes I will do the best for the country as a whole may not benefit you place at the moment but in times it should

Politician C who says yes I will stand up for everything here no matter what. Which one will you vote for. Its the one people will that benefits them is local parish pump politics.

The people who run will always say what gets them elected as sometimes the truth will not be what people want to hear.

Now I am not defending politicians or the current crop there is differently things they have done that should have been done differently and things they should do that the have not done. When you have a vote to elect a government people will always say things to get them elected. Do you think Sinn Fein, Fina Fail or the others in opposition be doing half the things they say it opposition.

charlemont · 26-05-2013 7:19pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Meh.. I'll take a poorly functioning democracy over a fascist regime that runs well.

The problem isn't with democracy in Ireland, it's with the stupidly insular, overly reverent and unquestioning plebs that it consists of.

And on that.. I wonder what will come of it. Will any Gardai lose their jobs or be taken to task for disclosing information to Shatter so he could further his own political agenda? Will Shatter or Wallace be genuinely expected to resign for their many fcuk-ups and blatant misleading of the electorate? No.. just like everything else in Ireland, it'll be swept aside in order to protect those with a bestowed power. If it's not priests being protected it's politicians and Gardai.

If the same sort of things were happening in the UK, people would be fired at best.. and likely have criminal charges brought against them. They certainly wouldn't be protected by their parties. But here?.. way too much respect shown to our 'superiors'.. the inevitable circling of the wagons whenever an individual screws up, and the acceptance of it all by the public. It's pathetic, but it still beats any other system of governance. Imagine the same sort of tools ruling us in an unelected capacity.

Excellent post, I completely agree..
There's an old saying that a fool deserves to be treated as a fool. And by god don't we just have a nation full of them..

the_syco · 26-05-2013 7:22pm

Lack of poll makes democratic thread about democracy ironic.

We actually need more career politicians, and not a teacher who become a TD for the craic, but doesn't seem to know jack sh|t on how to run a health service, and who uses it to allow family members skip queues in a hospital.

Jimmy Garlic · 26-05-2013 7:29pm

martingriff wrote: »

So ever few years (whenever election are) we have a new set of politicians. I mean they be part of some kind of party or body if you will. Is that not what we have already par the microcosm of the politician.

I mean lets me give you and example and please answer truthfully. You have 3 politicians going for a seat.

Politician A goes I won't make any promises but do the best if I am in government.

Politician B goes I will do the best for the country as a whole may not benefit you place at the moment but in times it should

Politician C who says yes I will stand up for everything here no matter what. Which one will you vote for. Its the one people will that benefits them is local parish pump politics.

The people who run will always say what gets them elected as sometimes the truth will not be what people want to hear.

Now I am not defending politicians or the current crop there is differently things they have done that should have been done differently and things they should do that the have not done. When you have a vote to elect a government people will always say things to get them elected. Do you think Sinn Fein, Fina Fail or the others in opposition be doing half the things they say it opposition.

There would be no elections and no career politicians. There would be random selections. Duration in office would have to be shorter to discourage corruption and once someone serves in office they are excluded from future selections. Political parties would not exist and those selected would be bound to adhere to a constitution.

Democracy is a farce and a sham.

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