Democracy is a farce and a sham.

Jimmy Garlic

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

The Backwards Man

Poll needed.

orestes

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

Democracy doesn't give power to the people, it gives people the right to elect their representatives. Just sayin'

Dave!

You realise that if all the apathetic goons who don't vote (because "they're all the same") all decided to get together and start a political party, or else voted for an unrepresented party, then they would elect a government?

So blame yourselves.

Citycap

When you see what has obsessed politicians over the last two weeks i.e Shatter and Wallace, you would wish for a Mussolini type to go in and finish them all off.
Irish democracy is very bad probably because of the false difference between FG and FF which prevents a proper right/left political system

mikemac1

Citycap wrote: »

wish for a Mussolini type

And Irish Rail would start running on time too

Jonny7

There are a few non-democratic countries in the world you can go and live in..

buuut I'm guessing you'd feel 100 times safer and more comfortable, with more rights, equality, options, opportunities, education, security and so on in this one

Peregrine

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

So what do you propose?

I'm always fascinated by people who say democracy doesn't work. What's the alternative?

Also we're not really a "democracy" to be precise. I can't think of any countries that are to be honest. Most countries have adopt representative form of democracy.

Snakeblood

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

Well, this has certainly shattered my worldview.

My name is URL

Meh.. I'll take a poorly functioning democracy over a fascist regime that runs well.

The problem isn't with democracy in Ireland, it's with the stupidly insular, overly reverent and unquestioning plebs that it consists of.

When you see what has obsessed politicians over the last two weeks i.e Shatter and Wallace

And on that.. I wonder what will come of it. Will any Gardai lose their jobs or be taken to task for disclosing information to Shatter so he could further his own political agenda? Will Shatter or Wallace be genuinely expected to resign for their many fcuk-ups and blatant misleading of the electorate? No.. just like everything else in Ireland, it'll be swept aside in order to protect those with a bestowed power. If it's not priests being protected it's politicians and Gardai.

If the same sort of things were happening in the UK, people would be fired at best.. and likely have criminal charges brought against them. They certainly wouldn't be protected by their parties. But here?.. way too much respect shown to our 'superiors'.. the inevitable circling of the wagons whenever an individual screws up, and the acceptance of it all by the public. It's pathetic, but it still beats any other system of governance. Imagine the same sort of tools ruling us in an unelected capacity.

Corkfeen

Citycap wrote: »

When you see what has obsessed politicians over the last two weeks i.e Shatter and Wallace, you would wish for a Mussolini type to go in and finish them all off.
Irish democracy is very bad probably because of the false difference between FG and FF which prevents a proper right/left political system

I've never wished for a Mussolini type character tbh.

Am Chile

This so called democracy when you vote once every five years-you are not voting to decide on the issues at hand- you are voting on who gets to decide on the issues for you-they can say one thing pre election we wont cut child benefit labour pre election 2011- or fine gael we wont close roscommon hospital pre election 2011-then post election do a complete u turn on pre election promises and there is no consequences for breaking pre election promises- so I can see and understand why a lot of people dont bother voting feeling they re all the same-I think we need direct democracy to certain decree plus the ability to able to recall politicians if pre election promises get broken-before anyone might bring up direct democracy ireland- no I am not a member nor a supporter of them because of their links to the freeman movement-but I am supporter of direct democracy to a degree.

hyperborean

Your just weak, only the strong prosper, the rest are saps that do nothing but moan.

bradlente

Leader's want to stay in power,Regardless of what type of government empower's them.The difference between Democracy and most other form's of government is that in order to stay in power,Leader's have to start initiative's and create scheme's that more-or-less help a good portion of people,Because in order to stay in power in a democracy far more people are needed than say,A dictatorship.
A Dictatorship may only need a handful of people to retain power for decade's.So instead of a larger portion of people needing attention in order to stay in power,A leader really only need look after a very small group of people.These can be replaced(maybe murdered)at any given time so as to avoid someone else challenging for power.The majority don't matter as they have no influence in whose in power and can be easily oppressed by the powerful few.

As far as Democracy being a farce and a sham,I'd rather it than any other form of government that's ever been invented.

Reekwind

Dave! wrote: »

You realise that if all the apathetic goons who don't vote (because "they're all the same") all decided to get together and start a political party, or else voted for an unrepresented party, then they would elect a government?

So blame yourselves.

I don't like RTE. I'm going to go establish a rival national broadcaster that will be far better. Can you lend me a few hundred million to build the infrastructure and staff I need to compete?

See the problem? The reason that not everyone goes out to build a national political party is because it's an expensive and difficult proposition. Breaking the stranglehold of the established parties (with their funds, political machines, connections within the state apparatus, political machines and patronage networks) is not something you can do lightly. The only party that really achieved this, and emerged as a 'credible' alternative to traditional parties, in the history of the State was the PDs. Note the past tense.

Besides, it's difficult to break through a system that is run on clientelism. A bit like winning the Tour de France without doping

blueser

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

''And in breaking news; a joint team of scientists from UCD, Harvard and Oxford universities have today confirmed, after an exhaustive 10 year investigation, that water is indeed wet. More on this when we have it. Now, back to your scheduled programming...''

18AD

You haven't generalised enough. Politics is a farce and a sham.

martingriff

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

So its all the politicians fault not the people who vote for them.

Edit: What's the alternative

mattjack

martingriff wrote: »

So its all the politicians fault not the people who vote for them.

Edit: What's the alternative

Alternative ? alternative ? you can't handle the alternative.

How 'bout a Boards style dictatorship ?

CrazyRabbit

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Poll needed.

And I'll pay everyone €2 to vote that democracy is not a joke.

martingriff

mattjack wrote: »

Alternative ? alternative ? you can't handle the alternative.

How 'bout a Boards style dictatorship ?

Bags I am emperor:cool:

IM0

a wise man once said, democracy isnt perfect, but its the best system we have so far

IM0

martingriff wrote: »

Bags I am emperor:cool:

vice emperor!

Peregrine

IM0 wrote: »

vice emperor!

martingriff wrote: »

Bags I am emperor:cool:

I bag emperor's controlling mother!

I win.

Now to solve the whole being a male problem..

Zebra3

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

In theory democracy gives power to the people. In reality it gives power to those with financial clout that can best manipulate the people to vote for them.Those with the best confidence trick win. A plethora of sound bites, slogans and promises that they have no intention of keeping and an election is theirs. At the end of the day your vote doesn't matter one iota.

If voting changed anything it would be declared illegal.

And power doesn't lie with the politicians, it lies with those whom control the supply of money.

Jimmy Garlic

martingriff wrote: »

So its all the politicians fault not the people who vote for them.

Edit: What's the alternative

Sortition. Political bodies that are statistically representative of the entire population and who are not career politicians. A microcosm of the population, men and women, young and old, rich and poor. People would be randomly selected much like jury service.

Could that be any worse than what we have now?

--Kaiser--

Democracy is the worst form of government there is
...apart from all the other ones.....

martingriff

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Sortition. Political bodies that are statistically representative of the entire population and who are not career politicians. A microcosm of the population, men and women, young and old, rich and poor. People would be randomly selected much like jury service.

Could that be any worse than what we have now?

So ever few years (whenever election are) we have a new set of politicians. I mean they be part of some kind of party or body if you will. Is that not what we have already par the microcosm of the politician.

I mean lets me give you and example and please answer truthfully. You have 3 politicians going for a seat.

Politician A goes I won't make any promises but do the best if I am in government.

Politician B goes I will do the best for the country as a whole may not benefit you place at the moment but in times it should

Politician C who says yes I will stand up for everything here no matter what. Which one will you vote for. Its the one people will that benefits them is local parish pump politics.

The people who run will always say what gets them elected as sometimes the truth will not be what people want to hear.

Now I am not defending politicians or the current crop there is differently things they have done that should have been done differently and things they should do that the have not done. When you have a vote to elect a government people will always say things to get them elected. Do you think Sinn Fein, Fina Fail or the others in opposition be doing half the things they say it opposition.

charlemont

My name is URL wrote: »

Meh.. I'll take a poorly functioning democracy over a fascist regime that runs well.

The problem isn't with democracy in Ireland, it's with the stupidly insular, overly reverent and unquestioning plebs that it consists of.



And on that.. I wonder what will come of it. Will any Gardai lose their jobs or be taken to task for disclosing information to Shatter so he could further his own political agenda? Will Shatter or Wallace be genuinely expected to resign for their many fcuk-ups and blatant misleading of the electorate? No.. just like everything else in Ireland, it'll be swept aside in order to protect those with a bestowed power. If it's not priests being protected it's politicians and Gardai.

If the same sort of things were happening in the UK, people would be fired at best.. and likely have criminal charges brought against them. They certainly wouldn't be protected by their parties. But here?.. way too much respect shown to our 'superiors'.. the inevitable circling of the wagons whenever an individual screws up, and the acceptance of it all by the public. It's pathetic, but it still beats any other system of governance. Imagine the same sort of tools ruling us in an unelected capacity.

Excellent post, I completely agree..
There's an old saying that a fool deserves to be treated as a fool. And by god don't we just have a nation full of them..

the_syco

Lack of poll makes democratic thread about democracy ironic.

We actually need more career politicians, and not a teacher who become a TD for the craic, but doesn't seem to know jack sh|t on how to run a health service, and who uses it to allow family members skip queues in a hospital.

Jimmy Garlic

martingriff wrote: »

So ever few years (whenever election are) we have a new set of politicians. I mean they be part of some kind of party or body if you will. Is that not what we have already par the microcosm of the politician.

I mean lets me give you and example and please answer truthfully. You have 3 politicians going for a seat.

Politician A goes I won't make any promises but do the best if I am in government.

Politician B goes I will do the best for the country as a whole may not benefit you place at the moment but in times it should

Politician C who says yes I will stand up for everything here no matter what. Which one will you vote for. Its the one people will that benefits them is local parish pump politics.

The people who run will always say what gets them elected as sometimes the truth will not be what people want to hear.

Now I am not defending politicians or the current crop there is differently things they have done that should have been done differently and things they should do that the have not done. When you have a vote to elect a government people will always say things to get them elected. Do you think Sinn Fein, Fina Fail or the others in opposition be doing half the things they say it opposition.

There would be no elections and no career politicians. There would be random selections. Duration in office would have to be shorter to discourage corruption and once someone serves in office they are excluded from future selections. Political parties would not exist and those selected would be bound to adhere to a constitution.

bradlente

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

There would be no elections and no career politicians. There would be random selections. Duration in office would have to be shorter to discourage corruption and once someone serves in office they are excluded from future selections. Political parties would not exist and those selected would be bound to adhere to a constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

It's all ideal and everything but some people don't like to play by the "rule's".In particular,Psychopath's,Of which many are able to command important role's in political office as well as other place's.Any such system would soon be eroded by power hungry individual's.

A constitution is alway's going to be difficult to adhere to as well.Any sort of amendment that would divide the masses lead's to manipulation and grand rhetoric at the least and conflict at the worst,Which are all symptom's of the kind of government we have now anyway.

The only solution I can find is for a psychopathy test for everyone when they reach 13.If the result's find that you are a psycho then you get shot in the face.
Utopia!

Jimmy Garlic

bradlente wrote: »

The only solution I can find is for a psychopathy test for everyone when they reach 13.If the result's find that you are a psycho then you get shot in the face.
Utopia!

A common misconception is that psychopaths are serial killers etc. They can be a lot more subtle than that and politics as it currently stands is a magnet for them. There is one former Taoiseach that definitely fits the profile of a psychopath. It can be safely said that a high percentage of politicians are psychopaths.

pappyodaniel

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Democracy is a farce and a sham.

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and a sham!

hedgehog2

The great confidence trick is what it is.
Hook in the mass public with illusions of universal decision making and power sharing and consulting.
[FONT=Arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]The Dutch have a saying The best pilots stand ashore
What I don't get is, why did it take so long for me to see this?
Somebody must have been washing my brain.[/SIZE][/FONT]

martingriff

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

There would be no elections and no career politicians. There would be random selections. Duration in office would have to be shorter to discourage corruption and once someone serves in office they are excluded from future selections. Political parties would not exist and those selected would be bound to adhere to a constitution.

So people would not be able to vote. So how would taxes, law's etc be inacted. They be changed everytime someone would get into the goverment or whatever you call it. That could cause chaos. NO SORRY NOT FOR ME

martingriff

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

A common misconception is that psychopaths are serial killers etc. They can be a lot more subtle than that and politics as it currently stands is a magnet for them. There is one former Taoiseach that definitely fits the profile of a psychopath. It can be safely said that a high percentage of politicians are psychopaths.

There is also some who say that the greatest people in business have psychopath traits but of course use it is different ways

oppenheimer1

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

So what do you propose?

I'm always fascinated by people who say democracy doesn't work. What's the alternative?

Also we're not really a "democracy" to be precise. I can't think of any countries that are to be honest. Most countries have adopt representative form of democracy.

A benevolent dictatorship or a technocracy are two forms of government that could deliver economic prosperity and stability.

Jimmy Garlic

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

A benevolent dictatorship or a technocracy are two forms of government that could deliver economic prosperity and stability.

No such thing as a benevolent dictatorship, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Technocracy, rule by "experts", would be just as bad as a theocracy, the "experts" would view themselves as infallible and superior to those that they rule. It could be argued that the Soviet Union was a technocracy. What a mess that turned out to be.

bradlente

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

No such thing as a benevolent dictatorship, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Technocracy, rule by "experts", would be just as bad as a theocracy, the "experts" would view themselves as infallible and superior to those that they rule. It could be argued that the Soviet Union was a technocracy. What a mess that turned out to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictatorship

When it's in a leader's interest's to improve society he/she will do so regardless of what form of governance it may be.Power corrupt's but it dosen't necessarily produce an evil of some sort.Although more than often it probably does.