STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

after looking at alot of stoves online, making phone calls about em etc. im gonna go for the stovax stockton 14hb. the reason for this is that it will be our only source of heat for hot water and the rads. we are taking out the old converted solid fuel to oil cooker. i dont want to skimp on a stove that wont heat the house. a few people on the phone say that the stovax stockton 14 hb is a good stove to heat water and rads.so this is what im going for

Roebourne9 wrote: »

hi, posted this on different thread but found this so posting here 2,
Looking for advise on getting above inset installed. I have read several threads on stoves but can't really apply info to my installation as there's so much info out there. I have few questions that i want to ask installer before getting it fitted on Thursday. We had to make quick decision on it yesterday as the next available fitting was Dec, prob a sales ploy but it suits us, I haven't asked them anything yet about installation which I was going to do on Monday but would like independent advise so i have idea what kind of answers we should be getting. We were told the installer will do assessment of suitability before attempting to fit it.
we were told by person in shop that we should be able to keep our current wooden surround Including cast iron insert. have tried uploading pic but can't manage it at mo, She even showed us a picture of it fitted into the exact same fireplace as ours, she said it may need to be trimmed a little bit. if It's not suitable they could put in different cast iron insert. does this sound ok?
Should the stove be completely sealed if It's fitted into existing cast iron insert? what way should it be fitted to the chimney ie Flue pipes, lining etc. It's a detached 2002 dormer with the assumption the chimney is lined.
How is chimney cleaned after its fitted? They're the questions i can think of at mo, if there's any other questions i should be asking please let me know, any advise greatly appreciated. Thanks

Hi:) Click on Instructions/ installation near the bottom of the page and it will download everything needed to install it to regs. May be a good idea before installer comes to print these off to familiarise yourself with the installation.
http://www.stovax.com/hearthmountedfires/hearthmountedfires/hearth_wood__multi_fuel/stockton_fires/technical_stockton_7_inset.aspx

The pic of the insert would be good and so long as it's flat and a good seal can be achieved this should be fine. Although surely it wouldn't be wide enough to accomodate the inset stove and need cutting.
The main points are well sealed to the fireplace. Hearth thats suitable. 150mm clearance to fire surround on either side and 300mm above. When the stove is slid into the fireplace any voids at the sides back and top are filled with a dry sand/cement/ vermiculite mix to insulate it. This part is crucial to get a good heat output. Stops the heat going up the chimney. Lining may not be needed if the current flue is clay lined and very sound!!
The first thing the installer should check is the insert fire dimensions will fit the fireplace opening.
The existing chimney if not installing a stainless liner should then be tested for safety by lighting a smoke pellet to test for smoke leakage and just as the smoke comes out the chimney pot to cap it, so that the smoke fills the chimney. Then check that no smoke leaks out of the chimney into the house or loft. Look in any cupboards/built in wardrobes that are build around or next to the chimney. Make sure smoke only comes out of one pot as well! It will be normal to get some coming out of the fireplace during this test. If this test fails the chimney should be lined with a flexible liner. A stainless steel liner would be a better job if you can afford the extra expense.

Sweeping by the looks is done by removing the 2 baffles inside the stove.

The installer will need to fit an external air vent in the same room. He should then light the fire and check it all visually and then show you how to operate it and leave you the user instructions.

Stove Fan:).

Spanner12 wrote: »

Hi Folks,

I'm considering getting a free standing solid fuel stove.
My existing gas fireplace has a concrete flue that runs from fireplace up to the attic space where it is capped and then connected to a 6 inch stainless pipe that exhausts to a vent on the ridge of the roof.

The opening in the concrete flue is approximately 7 x 3.5 inches. The bulkheads around the flue appear to be just framed and dry walled, ceiling heights upstairs and downstairs are 8 feet. Is it possible to retro fit a flue suitable for a solid fuel stove.

Many Thanks.

Hi:) From your description it sounds as if this flue is only suitable for a gas fire:(. Is the terminal on the roof for it like a ridge tile? Any chance of a photo? If this is the case you would need an installer in to re install a new insulated twin wall flue suitable for the stove.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) Any alterations or changes will need permission from the owner. If he is agreable he may let you fit a small stove in front of the open fire. I can't really think of anything which is portable and not needing permission and cheap to run. The only things that are portable are convector heaters/electric oil filled heaters:(

Stove Fan:)

Thanks a lot for that, I'd be pretty confident that permission could be granted from the owner so that wouldn't be a problem. Could you recommend any so in this case? Just to note also, there are no radiators or immersion to heat.

hi stove fan .the 30b glenmore stove is 625mm in depth and the room is 12ft in width. The depth of the 30b glenmore looks massive in the showroom and i'd be afraid it'd look to big in the sittingroom.we were advised we'd be wasting our time getting anything smaller then 30b with 8.5kw-10kw to room and 20kw-23kw to boiler, thanks

Stove Fan wrote: »

If permission can be granted then depending on the size of the room a 5kw stove should be fine. Go for one that can be flued from the rear:) Try to buy an under 5kw stove as no extra ventilation needs to be fitted.

If budget is a concern go for stanley or if got more to spend Hunter5 or arrow ecoburn 5. If money isn't a problem dunsley/clearview/morso/charnwood.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks a lot for that, as I said, I've absolutely no idea about stoves. I don't think money is much of a concern if the tenant can take it to any new dwellings and use it there aswell, then again, I don't know what price range these things soar to so maybe price will be a definite issue. Now when you say 5kw, is that the power it's built to be able to emit or is there something else I'm not aware about?

cormie wrote: »

Thanks a lot for that, as I said, I've absolutely no idea about stoves. I don't think money is much of a concern if the tenant can take it to any new dwellings and use it there aswell, then again, I don't know what price range these things soar to so maybe price will be a definite issue. Now when you say 5kw, is that the power it's built to be able to emit or is there something else I'm not aware about?

Yes a 5kw stove is the maximum heat output that the stove emits to the room.
To not need an air vent installed for regulations the stove must be rated at 5kw or under.
The stoves vary from about 300 to around 1000euro for a 5kw stove depending on quality and manufacturer.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) This stove is a bit more shallow. It has a 24kw boiler too:)
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/stratford-tf90b-boiler-stove.html
You have quite a few rads:cool:. What are your rad sizes, singles or doubles and we will make sure the stove is the right size for your house:) What is the room dimensions and insulation levels where the stove is being installed? We don't want to roast you alive:eek:

Stove Fan:)

we have 9 double rads 3 x47"x4". and six 4"wide average of 35" long.then we have 5 singles average 35"LONG.THE ROOM THAT THE STOVE WILL BE IN IS 12FT WLDE AND 18FT LONG. not too sure about the insulation levels its a dormer house built 6 yrs ago. thanks

avfc1874 wrote: »

we have 9 double rads 3 x47"x4". and six 4"wide average of 35" long.then we have 5 singles average 35"LONG.THE ROOM THAT THE STOVE WILL BE IN IS 12FT WLDE AND 18FT LONG. not too sure about the insulation levels its a dormer house built 6 yrs ago. thanks

I have done a rough calculation of your radiator outputs.

You are looking for a 24kw boiler stove to run your hot water and all of your rads.
On your room size you need around 4.5kw to adequately heat it.

I think the stratford TF90 is your best bet:)

Stove Fan:)

Firstly, thanks stovefan for advice to date! To install cara inset stove I've cut the fireplace sides to increase the opening and removed the fireback. The floor of the opening is now lower than the hearth- what should I use to being it level-fire cement? Also, would the insertion of fireboard adjacent to the other faces of the stove be advisable? Thanks in advance!

Hi
The 21kw might be a bit big for 300l tank, stove fan should know better.
I have a 25kw boru stove in for about a year now, it heats a 1000l buffer tank (it is a tank in a tank) I usually but fire on about 6pm and the tank is normally around 60 to 65 when I am going to bed, unless we use a lot of hot water or there is a lot of demand for heat, it will still be up around 50 degrees next evening, saying that the plumber has it set up so has tank does not drop below 45degrees, in which case it will look for heat from solar(I have no panels hooked up yet), then stove and then oil, (the oil goes off at 50 degrees again) so far it is not to soar on oil or fuel for stove

newbie4 wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan
Just wondering what you think of think of this system

A henley "the Blasket 21kw" stove
Piped into a buffer tank 300l
Of that I will be heating 5 large rads 4 small rads a couple of towel heatres and some underfloor heating hoping that it will take the work away for condenser boiler
Just wonderin what u think
will it work?
E850 for stoove by the way

Hi:) Just seen your post. It is quite normal to have a buffer tank of at least 1000-1500 litres. There is a ratio on boiler output and buffer tank size. It's a very specialist area and so would be best to post a query on here:http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/?CategoryID=5 Lots of well informed specialists on here:)

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan wrote: »

I think you are going to be too hot:( especially if your room the stove is in is well insulated and is not open to the stairs or you can't open double doors to another room(s) We have a room thats very well insulated thats 6.2m by 5.7 with a ceiling height of 2.8m. 4kw adequately heats this room in the coldest weather. It's a new cavity walled extension.

I don't think opening one door would be enough to cool the room.

Stove Fan:)

thaNks for your idvice i think we'll look again at the stratford TF90B. if you can think of any more 4.5 kw to room with 23kw to boiler stoves i'd apprieciate it. thanks again

Rob_talisman wrote: »

Unfortunatley neither of those two stoves are reviewed on that site...

Good news is the hunter glass is flat, no curves and replacement is <£20.


Hmmm decisions desicions.

i bought the causeway stove with boiler, and i do not see it on the list

potter on wrote: »

hi Stove Fan,

Did a calculation using the website you provided, looks like we'll need between 11-12KW output in total. the stanley cara only provides 8KW, a bit short. I guess we should get one that is adequate rather than one which is short in terms of output. Thanks for your help

Hi:) Buying a boiler stove that matches your required output is best or one thats a bit bigger if only burning wood and turf.

Stove Fan:)

Reyman wrote: »

I have a bungalow and I'm hoping to put in a stove with 6/7kw output. I'd like to get one with a boiler included to heat the water in the cylinder, which is only 4/5 feet away. The heat split would be 3kw to room / 3kw to the cylinder/water

A couple of questions:
1. It's a bungalow so the cylinder is at the same level as the stove and I don't think a 'gravity' flow heating of the water will work? Does anyone know a way of overcoming this (without raising the cylinder, which would be pretty difficult)?
2. What 'head' do those gravity water heating systems need to work properly?
3. I seem to remember in the old days that gravity water heating back boilers were always made of copper because of problems if dissimilar metals were used with constantly changing water. eg copper pipes/cylinder and steel boiler. Is this not a problem anymore?

Our property is a bungalow and I fitted the hot water cylinder in the loft. It's about 6m away from the stove and works great. I fitted the oblong coffin cold water tank as near the ridge to get decent flow to the taps.
If placing the cylinder in the loft is not possible due to height fit the cylinder as high to the ceiling as possible with the cold tank in the loft. Or if no room for tank fit a combination tank and cylinder.

If you only want to run hot water from the stove I would go for a direct cylinder but make sure the clip in boiler is stainless steel, the direct cylinder would probably heat up quicker as the water in the cylinder and inside the stoves stainless steel boiler is the same water that goes to the hot taps. . If you fit a steel boiler make sure the cylinder is an indirect one with coil.

The old set up was probably a cast iron boiler linked to a steel or copper direct cylinder. This would result with rusty coloured water out the hot taps as fresh water would constantly being introduced along with oxygen and rust the cast iron boiler internally. To prevent this either fit a stainless steel back boiler or fit an indirect cylinder with coil. Also steel and alluminium should not be mixed.



Almost any small 7kw stove can come with a clip in boiler.

Stove Fan:)

Reyman wrote: »

Thanks Stovefan - that's a useful lot of information, though I can't see myself putting the cylinder in the attic. It was freezing up there last winter because it's very well insulated to keep the house warm.
I take your comment on using indirect heating of the cylinder by gravity - it would be pretty inefficient versus circulating the water directly through the boiler.
Do you happen to know what height of a head is needed for gravity circulation to work? Have you ever heard of anyone putting a pump in the circuit to get over the problem? Are gravity circuits usually thermostatically controlled?

Hi so long as the cylinder is above the stove even just enough so that the top cylinder coil is above the stoves flow outlet, the cylinder will work fine with gravity flow. The pipe from the stoves top outlet to the cylinder has to always rise to the top connection on the cylinder. It would be better though if you could fit the cylinder in a cupboard at the side of the fireplace about 1m higher than the stove.

Its not adviced to pump the water to the cylinder as the cylinder acts as a heat leak radiator to dissipate any excess heat if there was a powercut and the pump stopped. Gravity circuits are not usually thermostatically controlled in just heating the water only and have no pump to circulate the water.

Our cylinder and cold tank is in the loft although our ecowool loft insulation is only 200mm in parts and 400mm in other areas, and so do lose some heat to the loft in that very cold spell. None of the pipes froze so that was something.

Stove Fan:)

Reyman wrote: »

Thanks Stovefan. I'll have to shift the cylinder, which has about half dozen pipes going into it!
By the way you said I should go for the stainless steel boiler - presumably this avoids any issues with corrosion?
Is there any difference between the built in boilers and the clip on ones offered by some manufacturers?

If you are only ever interested in a stove for heating hot water then buy one with a clip in stainless steel boiler and a direct hot cylinder.

If you want to run rads as well then a stove with a wraparound boiler in steel will be fine so long as the hot water cylinder is indirect (with coil)

With regards to built in and clip in boilers. The majority of built in boilers are made of steel and so would be unsuitable for a direct system.
The clip in boiler is smaller and can be bought in either steel or stainless steel and is sized for heating the hot water cylinder only. The latter is what you want.

If you only want hot water buy a 3kw clip in stainless steel boiler.

Stove Fan:)