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OMG ripped off by firearms dealer

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  • 20-04-2015 11:08pm
    #1
    sausagesandcash
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭


    I gave a dealer a lovely .22 Hornet to sell a few years ago, as I bought a smaller .22 off him. He almost had it sold before the recession kicked in, but that was the last I heard of it. I went into him today today to inquire about it, to be told that he had sold it. When I asked how much I got, he told me I get nothing. He maintains he charges a storage fee of €100 per year, and that he was out money on the gun. I pointed out that he was selling it, not storing it, and that he couldn't be out money as the gun was in perfect condition, but he said it didn't make a difference.

    I've been in this guys son-in-laws house several times when he was there over the last ten odd years. He even greets me by name when we have met!



    Has anyone ever heard of a firearms dealer doing anything like this before????


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    #2
    blackdog1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭blackdog1


    Know of a dealer in cork who got a shotgun from the guards after a tragic accident with it. Was stored their unknown. When the father of the deceased went to collect it and sell it after ten years the dealer wanted to charge him 60 pounds a year for storage. Basically stole the gun off the man.


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    #3
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    Are they being stored in a solid gold gun cabinet, with lace pillows and cleaned everyday for that price
    fcuk me.


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    #4
    bravestar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    10 years...

    Seriously, to the OP and black dog, do you expect dealers to store firearms for free for nearly a decade?

    If you placed household items into a self storage locker and came back 10 years later would you expect to pick up your gear without paying for the storage?


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    #5
    mosstin
    Registered Users Posts: 6,115 ✭✭✭mosstin


    Well, it wasn't as if he put a gun to your head.


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    #6
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Most dealers, not all, will charge a fee for storage. The storage does not necessarily have to be a gun being kept there for, well ,storage but while waiting to be sold. It's for this reason you need to set out a clearly defined set of rules. IOW:
    • Are you being charged for the storage?
    • What is the cost?
    • Is it weekly, monthly, annually or a fixed price?
    • Will the dealer want or accept a commission from the sale of the gun instead?
    • If so how much?

    While this may not be a new thing it really kicked off after 2009 with the introduction of the new gun laws (lads surrendering more guns) and with the downturn in the economy when sales were falling. IOW it was a previously unexploited revenue source.

    None of the above excuses the dealer's behaviour. If the RFD did not clearly set out these prices he is not acting right. However, and at the risk of being a dick, if the person storing it does not ask they are setting themselves up for a kick to the nuts.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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    #7
    blackdog1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭blackdog1


    bravestar wrote: »
    10 years...

    Seriously, to the OP and black dog, do you expect dealers to store firearms for free for nearly a decade?

    If you placed household items into a self storage locker and came back 10 years later would you expect to pick up your gear without paying for the storage?

    As I said man never knew gun was with dealer he thought the guards had it. For a dealer to do what he did in tragic circumstances is unforgivable and totally unjustifiable


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    #8
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    A local sports shop has only a quite small strong room. Like the poster says, he was overwhelmed by guns bring surrendered far faster than they could be destroyed. He charges 50 per six months, and you will be made well aware of this fact!


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    #9
    Squatman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Squatman


    OP, you should find out when he sold it, and how much for. This should determine if he screwed you on storage charges.


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    #10
    bravestar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    blackdog1 wrote: »
    As I said man never knew gun was with dealer he thought the guards had it. For a dealer to do what he did in tragic circumstances is unforgivable and totally unjustifiable

    And the man decided to ask about it after a decade because...Nothing against you black dog, but there's a few bits that seem far fetched. Maybe you didn't get the full story.


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    #11
    sausagesandcash
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭sausagesandcash


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    A local sports shop has only a quite small strong room. Like the poster says, he was overwhelmed by guns bring surrendered far faster than they could be destroyed. He charges 50 per six months, and you will be made well aware of this fact!

    If that were the case the dealer has no incentive to sell. Look at it this way. If a guy had a gun worth €150 for sale in this guys shop. By your logic after eighteen months the dealer owns it!! If the dealer sells it straight away, he gets buttons....but if he holds onto it for a wee while, he gets 150!

    This guy has held guns for me before. He has never mentioned any storage fees ever, and has never charged me any. First I ever heard of storage fees (in sixteen years shopping there, albeit infrequently) was yesterday.


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    #12
    hexosan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭hexosan


    sausagesandcash wrote: »
    If that were the case the dealer has no incentive to sell. Look at it this way. If a guy had a gun worth €150 for sale in this guys shop. By your logic after eighteen months the dealer owns it!! If the dealer sells it straight away, he gets buttons....but if he holds onto it for a wee while, he gets 150!

    This guy has held guns for me before. He has never mentioned any storage fees ever, and has never charged me any. First I ever heard of storage fees (in sixteen years shopping there, albeit infrequently) was yesterday.

    Do you agree that the dealer in entitled to some payment for storing firearms or that it should be provided free of charge to everyone.


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    #13
    luvhuntin
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭luvhuntin


    How much is that Hornet?
    Its Free.
    Thanks Ill have that please.
    I don't think so. Of course he got money for it and should have just told you what he got minus whatever storage which should have been agreed when leaving the gun in. It doesn't surprise me as a dealer near Newtown in Wicklow tried that trick on me a few years ago. He has a history of doing lads.


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    #14
    hexosan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭hexosan


    sausagesandcash wrote: »
    I gave a dealer a lovely .22 Hornet to sell a few years ago,

    define a few years


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    #15
    garrettod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    Hi,

    While I agree that everyone is entitled to earn a living and you can't ask a dealer to store a gun for free - I do think it's wrong for a dealer to apply a significant charge, while selling the gun for someone.

    Instead, a very small monthly fee and a commission for sale seems more reasonable (possibly with a cap of 12 months before the parties must renegotiate).

    Otherwise, where is the incentive for the dealer to try and sell the gun ?

    At a time when guns are not selling as quickly as they might have done 10-15 years ago, everyone needs to be reasonable and that means that a dealer deserves to have his costs covered, but equally the gun owner shouldn't be shafted.

    It would be great if there was an independent source, where we could all see storage rates charged, terms and conditions etc. so as to be able to compare costs between dealers. I don't think I've ever seen anything on pricing for storage advertised, now I think about it.

    Obvioiusly, I'm not saying every dealer is out to overcharge btw, some are probably more than fair in their pricing, there are clearly good and bad people in this business just like any other :)

    Thanks,

    G.



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    #16
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    hexosan wrote: »
    define a few years
    As he said:
    sausagesandcash wrote: »
    He almost had it sold before the recession kicked in,........
    I'd assume it was before 2009 or late 2008. That is a minimum of 6 years, possibly 7 and maybe more as this is only when the OP said he almost had it sold. He said he had it in before that so it could be 2007 or earlier meaning it's been in his gun room for 8 years.

    If he charges €100 per year then it's a bill of €800, and even if he only charged €50 per year it's still €400. No Hornet, hardly even a new one, is worth €400 let alone €800.

    The other kick in the pants is An Gardaí don't concern themselves with ownership from the who paid for it point of view. They only concern themselves with licensing. So if you try to bring the RFD to court it'll be a civil matter and AGS won't get involved.

    This is why it's important these thins are clarified before any guns are stored or traded into a dealer, and you get it in writing. Verbal contracts are not worth the paper they're written on.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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    #17
    dazed+confused
    Registered Users Posts: 999 ✭✭✭dazed+confused


    This really reaffirms the point that lots of people have made to me over the last two years. "There is no money in gun sales!"

    Take two businesses where you have to buy/lease a premises, register with a professional body and then pay insurance, rates, utilities and staff.

    Business A: Car dealership with a small workshop for some servicing and space for 150 cars outside.

    Business B: Gun dealer with room for a gunsmith's room and a modest strong room capable of storing 150 firearms.

    So I drop a shotgun into Business B, it has a minor fault that I am considering repairing but I am possibly looking to upgrade. I say that
    I'll call back in next week after the gunsmith has had time to assess the repair and I've had some time to decide what I want to do. Two years go by and I don't return (this happens all the time in the industry). I then rock up two years later and expect my gun back for free.

    Now imagine doing the same thing to Business A, your car would have been long since sent for scrap metal! The problem is the dealer is tied to babysitting your firearm until you decide to return with some paperwork. People really do need their eyes opened to how a business works sometimes.


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    #18
    hexosan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭hexosan


    The amount of lads I know that weren't bothered paying the first of the three years licences all thought they were onto a winner when they dropped guns into dealers to let them store them (till they wanted to shoot them)
    Dealers can't be expected to hold stuff indefinitely and like others have say they have a limit to the amount they can hold.
    I know of one fellas father who left a shotgun (pile of rust) in a dealers 20+ years ago and through family legend this gun turned into the greatest weapon ever, forged by our Lord himself. He decided to inquire about this gun and was shocked to hear the dealer had destroyed it. We all got the story down the pub about the prick dealer who swindled his family out of a national treasure.


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    #19
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    I'll tell you a happy story about a gun shop keeping a gun for years.
    First rifle I owned, in the mid 1980's, bought it from an elderly gentleman farmer, who was worried about his grandson's fascination with it.
    A little Winchester .22 LR semi auto. I think it held 15 or 18 rounds, and had a weaver 2x sight.
    After about 5 years I traded it in against a new Krico .22 magnum.
    20 years roll past, and about 3 years ago I get a visit from the local Garda. "What are you going to do about that gun of yours?" he asks.
    What gun? I reply.
    "The gun of yours in the gun shop, he is closing down, and we have to sort out ownership" replies the Guard.
    So my little Winchester, traded in in about 1990, was still sitting there with a tag on the trigger guard with my name on it!
    I told the Guard to wait a few days, and I contacted the old mans Grandson, now in his 30's.
    He was trilled, as he had believed the little rifle long lost. Got his licence and still using it. :)


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    #20
    Deaf git
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭Deaf git


    I heard about a part time dealer who took in a pistol for storage while the owner was abroad for a few months. I think it was a P99. Long story cut short, he sold the pistol to someone else. Original owner returns and the gun was gone. Don't know how it finished up.
    The same bloke sold trade ins as 'new' on more than one occasion....including a gun I traded in to him. The proud owner of the 'new' gun was royally peed off when I showed him the gun listed and crossed out on the old paper type licence.
    It all went wrong in the end, suppliers hadn't been paid, deposits on guns spent etc and a parade of really angry people looking for him.
    He was a really nice bloke (if he didn't owe you money) but couldn't run a business for nuts.


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