Martin McGuinness to be named as Sinn Féins candidate for the Presidential Election?

KeithAFC · 19-09-2011 1:53pm

vellocet wrote: »

But conversely, IF it is his view, we are entitled to rip him to shreds.

No problem with that.

crucamim · 19-09-2011 2:09pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Er, yeah, and the KKK are entitled to theirs too.

Most decent people judge others by their actions, not by stuff they had no control over like where they were born, their colour or their religion.

And the catholic church is hardly a bastion of decency either......the enemy of a catholic boy isn't a protestant, it's the priest raping him with the blessing of the bishop and the pope.

* might be slightly stereotypical but at least it doesn't write off an entire group of people for no reason

It is strange how often anti-Provos are also anti-Priest. Conor Cruise O'Brien, Dr Noel Browne, Jim Kemmy, Nuala Fennell and sundry Stickies.

crucamim · 19-09-2011 2:10pm

vellocet wrote: »

I strongly doubt they are in fact his views, more likely an attempt at a wind up.

Why do you doubt it?

crucamim · 19-09-2011 2:13pm

vellocet wrote: »

But conversely, IF it is his view, we are entitled to rip him to shreds.

What is wrong with the view that, if Ulster Protestants have a right to self-determination, Ulster Catholics also have a right to self-determination. Are you anti-Catholic?

Wolfe Tone · 19-09-2011 2:14pm

This threads gone down the ****ter.

FTA69 · 19-09-2011 2:15pm

Obvious troll is pretty bloody obvious.

crucamim · 19-09-2011 2:16pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

This threads gone down the ****ter.

You are right. Certain people used this thread to launch a vicious attack on the Catholic people of Northern Ireland.

vellocet · 19-09-2011 2:17pm

crucamim wrote: »

It is strange how often anti-Provos are also anti-Priest. Conor Cruise O'Brien, Dr Noel Browne, Jim Kemmy, Nuala Fennell and sundry Stickies.

Its strange how anti-Provo the priests were. Its quite recently that IRA men were excommunicated, priests took the opportunity to criticise the IRA at funerals of innocents butchered by loyalists and the church condemned the IRA.

Christ, go back to the 20's and 30's and they were siding with the pro-treaty forces and blessing boats with swastika's on them.

The idea that the church was anything other than nakedly hostile to Republican's of any hue is wrong. Plain wrong. Time and time again the Vatican sided with the powerful over their own flock's interest.

vellocet · 19-09-2011 2:18pm

crucamim wrote: »

You are right. Certain people used this thread to launch a vicious attack on the Catholic people of Northern Ireland.

You were the first person to mention the C word...

19-09-2011 2:19pm

This thread is not about catholics and non catholics. Back on topic please.

vellocet · 19-09-2011 2:20pm

crucamim wrote: »

Why do you doubt it?

Because no-one, and I mean no-one, in the real world thinks like you. Even the most militant Catholic in the 6 counties realised that the conflict between the church and Republicanism means your 'theory' is nonsense.

Nice try, but could I suggest a more subtle hook and then, bam, hit them with the crazy.

wilson10 · 19-09-2011 2:25pm

Anyone happen to know the address of the Afghanistani Embassy.

Just on the off chance, I want be at the head of the queue to apply for political asylum.

vellocet · 19-09-2011 2:27pm

wilson10 wrote: »

Anyone happen to know the address of the Afghanistani Embassy.

Just on the off chance, I want be at the head of the queue to apply for political asylum.

I'm actually waiting with baited breath for this narrative to start.

Self important Sindo twats saying 'if MMG wins I'm emigrating'.

Like when Phil Collins said the same if Labour won in 1997, Noel Gallagher was straight out saying 'that's me voting for Blair so'.

crucamim · 19-09-2011 2:29pm

bluewolf wrote: »

This thread is not about catholics and non catholics. Back on topic please.

Unfortunately, the thread has been used by people who have lived, and who continue to live, at a comfortable distance from tyranny to pass judgement on those of us who have been much less luckly. I hope your intervention will ensure that the thread is no longer used to insult the victims of tyranny and will be devoted entirely to debate about Martin McGuinness being a candidate in the Eire presidential election. I have already indicated that the politics of Eire is none of my business.

crucamim · 19-09-2011 2:33pm

vellocet wrote: »

Because no-one, and I mean no-one, in the real world thinks like you.

Even if that were true, so what? Even if I am the only person in the world who advocates cantonisation as a solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland, I am still entitled to that view.

And I am not the only person who holds that view. Nor am I nearly the only person in Northern Ireland who holds that view.

19-09-2011 2:34pm

crucamim wrote: »

Unfortunately, the thread has been used by people who have lived, and who continue to live, at a comfortable distance from tyranny to pass judgement on those of us who have been much less luckly. I hope your intervention will ensure that the thread is no longer used to insult the victims of tyranny and will be devoted entirely to debate about Martin McGuinness being a candidate in the Eire presidential election. I have already indicated that the politics of Eire is none of my business.

My warning is not an excuse to have one last go at other posters or where they live. I am not discussing this any further on thread. Get back on topic please or don't post on it. If you have a problem with individual posts report them.

wilson10 · 19-09-2011 3:11pm

vellocet wrote: »

I'm actually waiting with baited breath for this narrative to start.

Self important Sindo twats saying 'if MMG wins I'm emigrating'.

Like when Phil Collins said the same if Labour won in 1997, Noel Gallagher was straight out saying 'that's me voting for Blair so'.

It's simple really, I'm old enough to remember the daily images of slaughter and mayhem on the streets, I was never actually present to see the sights we were protected from, you know, the blood and guts and severed limbs, thank God, I'm sure I wouldn't be much good in such a situation.

Consequently I could not accept as my international representative someone who may have been involved in planning and plotting such atrocities but certainly represented the people who did and failed to denounce the killing of innocent people going about their daily business, even women and children.

By the way what's a Sindo twat ?

I hate to show my ignorance but is it something to do with the Sunday Independent ??

walrusgumble · 19-09-2011 3:27pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'm hoping he doesn't win, but in fairness to him the above applies to not just him, and wasn't raised as an issue re McAleese.

So let's at least try to stick to actual issues related to him, rather than create ones that people were perfectly happy to ignore before - and in fact praised as a sign of a mature Ireland at the time.

Yes it was!!!!!!!

Fianna Fail camps contained people/campaigners who were not very happy to have "foreigners" as their chosen nominations. Currie in 1990 got the worse of it and Mary Mc got some of it in 1997(Mary also had the issue of an annoyed Albert too).

All hush hush of course, but if you know reliable sources, you will see that they have far too many partitionists when it affects their interests. I think even that one , Justine McCarthy (I aint saying she is reliable) who wrote on Mary raised the issue too.

vellocet · 19-09-2011 3:28pm

wilson10 wrote: »

It's simple really, I'm old enough to remember the daily images of slaughter and mayhem on the streets, I was never actually present to see the sights we were protected from, you know, the blood and guts and severed limbs, thank God, I'm sure I wouldn't be much good in such a situation.

Consequently I could not accept as my international representative someone who may have been involved in planning and plotting such atrocities but certainly represented the people who did and failed to denounce the killing of innocent people going about their daily business, even women and children.

By the way what's a Sindo twat ?

I hate to show my ignorance but is it something to do with the Sunday Independent ??

Then don't vote for him. I probably won't.

But spare us the 'I'm out of here' hyperbole.

walrusgumble · 19-09-2011 3:34pm

wilson10 wrote: »

It's simple really, I'm old enough to remember the daily images of slaughter and mayhem on the streets, I was never actually present to see the sights we were protected from, you know, the blood and guts and severed limbs, thank God, I'm sure I wouldn't be much good in such a situation.

Consequently I could not accept as my international representative someone who may have been involved in planning and plotting such atrocities but certainly represented the people who did and failed to denounce the killing of innocent people going about their daily business, even women and children.

By the way what's a Sindo twat ?

I hate to show my ignorance but is it something to do with the Sunday Independent ??

Ok,

but you will also be well aware of the same Martin McGuinness and Co sitting out laughing with Rev Ian Paisley in Belfast in 2007-2008.(Should have been earlier - but that is just as much Paisley's fault too, he waited till he got power and used the troubles to get himself over the Ulster Unionist) Oh I suppose ye lot don't think Paisley had any responsibilities for the nonsense. Martin has had no major problems with with hard man Robinson.

Point: If people of the Unionist area are able to stomach McGuinness as leader in Stormount, then he should be given the same courtesy here. (I am not saying that they wanted him a 1st Minister, they clearly did not, nut then they would not want an SDLP one either)

what is to be achieved on dragging up the past. It ain't going to hurt people like McGuinnness as much as it might with Adams.

I hope you take the same view, for the purpose of consistency, with say, Nelson Mandela. And before you say anything, many people around the international world are willing to accept comparisons (whether they are naive is another matter)

SINDO, yes, the likes of Eoghan Harris and Co. (At least , I think, he would be consistent on his views on Provo's though) and then over at the Indo, Kevin Myers.

19-09-2011 4:00pm

McGuinness for president is a pretty cynical and ill-conceived sinn fein move as far as i can make out, and for a couple of reasons.

Sinn Fein are not even a generation removed from punishment beatings, bullets, and semtex, and they're proposing to put a confessed former senior IRA commander into the Aras, and at the expense of the good progress he seems to be making in the Northern Executive.

I think it would demean the office of president to put a man with such a dubious and wholly unclear past in it, and the process could permanently damage his profile sufficiently well enough to undermine any return to northern politics should he fail to be elected.

Before the inevitable comparisons with Michael Collins and Nelson Mandela and so forth are made, i think i should stress that i feel that McGuinness is not in the same league as either of those. The provisional IRA did not enjoy the support of the majority of people of the country, and were widely abhorred by the majority. regardless of the self-righteousness of their struggle. I also think a level of callousness, corruption, and general disregard for innocent human life in how that organisation went about it's business sets it apart from the genuine political struggles of Collins, Mandela, and the like.

Furthermore, as far as i have ever heard, the only way out of the IRA was in a box. Do we even know how far mcGuinness rose in the organisation? I don't believe that he has ever clarified that, nor shed any light on any of the questionable things he had to do to rise to the lofty positions which he did. You do not rise to the top of an organisation like that without doing a lot of dirty work first, and i just don't feel that that befits the office of president, particularly one who will be reviewing the Irish Army on O'Connell Street in 2016.

Apart from the issue of McGuinness and his suitability for office, there is also the question of the damage his running for office may do to the progress of the northern executive. Elections are a dirty, nasty business, and you can be damn sure that a lot of people out there will have an axe to grind with McGuinness, and this will be a perfect opportunity to score a lot of points on him. If you think David Norris and his letter on oireachtas headed paper was a skeleton in the closet, i would be willing to bet that mCGuinness has a whole graveyard in his.

Who knows (and this is just complete conjecture from me) how many people he may have had a hand in hurting or even killing while rising through the ranks as an IRA terrorist? Who knows how many heartbreaking stories of grief, loss, murder and lawlessness could come out of the woodwork to pull on the strings of the electorate, with the help of his many enemies? What kind of damage would that do to his profile should he fail to be elected and have to return to northern politics.

McGuinness has stated his wish to move forward and not dwell on the past. I fear he cannot afford to dwell on his past, because it could be capable of doing him a lot of damage politically. If Sinn Fein want to run a candidate for the presidency, by all means let them do so, but i think it should be one less explosive (no pun intended) than he.

Zubeneschamali · 19-09-2011 4:36pm

I think that McGuinness's candidacy is probably best for Gay Mitchell. There are a lot of law'n'order respect authority older voters out there who weren't excited by Michael D. vs. Mitchell, and might have stayed at home.

But with "enemy of the state" Marty on the ballot, they'll come out and vote, and Mitchell looks like the most obvious anti-SF candidate.

Peppa Pig · 19-09-2011 4:40pm

For me and my humble opinion, Martin McGuinness does not even warrant thinking about giving him a vote.
Anyone who boycotted the Queen's visit and wouldn't even come to Dublin castle because it was "too soon" has no credibility with me, when, only four months later he is willing to meet "any" head of state.
I want a president to represent the country because they want to , not because they have to.

Dyr · 19-09-2011 4:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Furthermore, as far as i have ever heard, the only way out of the IRA was in a box.

You heard wrong, unsurprisingly.

invinciblePRSTV · 19-09-2011 4:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

McGuinness for president is a pretty cynical and ill-conceived sinn fein move as far as i can make out, and for a couple of reasons.

Not really no. They picked probably their best known party member beside Gerry Adams, hardly cyncial or ill-conceived. More likely smart politics.

Deleted User wrote: »

Sinn Fein are not even a generation removed from punishment beatings, bullets, and semtex, and they're proposing to put a confessed former senior IRA commander into the Aras, and at the expense of the good progress he seems to be making in the Northern Executive.

They (SF) are a generation removed from the days of the Troubles. Bare in mind, for a significant portion of the electorate, as well as many SF politicians, the Troubles are just that; pages from history.

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it would demean the office of president to put a man with such a dubious and wholly unclear past in it, and the process could permanently damage his profile sufficiently well enough to undermine any return to northern politics should he fail to be elected.

Unlikely. It's public knowledge as to McGuinness' role as a PIRA commander and what the IRA got up to. That's all in the past now and of course, Irish political history, as well as the current government, is made of individuals who have made the transition from violence to peaceful, democratic politics.

Deleted User wrote: »

Before the inevitable comparisons with Michael Collins and Nelson Mandela and so forth are made, i think i should stress that i feel that McGuinness is not in the same league as either of those. The provisional IRA did not enjoy the support of the majority of people of the country, and were widely abhorred by the majority. regardless of the self-righteousness of their struggle. I also think a level of callousness, corruption, and general disregard for innocent human life in how that organisation went about it's business sets it apart from the genuine political struggles of Collins, Mandela, and the like.

You've badly misunderstood the comparisons made between Mandela, Collins & McGuinness. It's not about whether you consider his actions as a PIRA commander as legitimate, but about being part of of radical organisations which espoused violence, like the ANC/ SA Communist Party/IRB/ 'old; IRA, which then made the transition to peaceful politics.

You might not like McGuinness being compared to either Collins' or Mandela, but they share a similar political history so the comparison is very much valid whether you like it or not.

Deleted User wrote: »

Furthermore, as far as i have ever heard, the only way out of the IRA was in a box. Do we even know how far mcGuinness rose in the organisation? I don't believe that he has ever clarified that, nor shed any light on any of the questionable things he had to do to rise to the lofty positions which he did. You do not rise to the top of an organisation like that without doing a lot of dirty work first, and i just don't feel that that befits the office of president, particularly one who will be reviewing the Irish Army on O'Connell Street in 2016.

McGuinness has publicly admitted he was senior IRA member. You also realise we've alreadt elected presidents who've participated in violent, bloody coups:eek:.

Deleted User wrote: »

Apart from the issue of McGuinness and his suitability for office, there is also the question of the damage his running for office may do to the progress of the northern executive. Elections are a dirty, nasty business, and you can be damn sure that a lot of people out there will have an axe to grind with McGuinness, and this will be a perfect opportunity to score a lot of points on him. If you think David Norris and his letter on oireachtas headed paper was a skeleton in the closet, i would be willing to bet that mCGuinness has a whole graveyard in his.

David Norris is a political nobody, McGuinness is an experienced politician. I have no doubt there will be plenty of sabre rattling from the usual suspects in the run of the election but whatever skeletons are dug up or rehashed by the Sindo it's old news. We know his past, but we also know he's someone who has signed up to the GFA and being involved in democratic politics for nearly 2 decades.

Using your spurious reasoning then why aren't you holding the Labour Party to account and asking about their skeletons? A section of their membership and elected representative share a similar story to McGuinness and SF in terms of their transition from armed conflict to democratic politics.

Deleted User wrote: »

Who knows (and this is just complete conjecture from me) how many people he may have had a hand in hurting or even killing while rising through the ranks as an IRA terrorist? Who knows how many heartbreaking stories of grief, loss, murder and lawlessness could come out of the woodwork to pull on the strings of the electorate, with the help of his many enemies? What kind of damage would that do to his profile should he fail to be elected and have to return to northern politics.

Emotional reasoning, now you're getting desperate. I refer you again to Irish political history where there is numerous examples of individuals who were involved in armed comflicy making the transition to democratic politics.

Deleted User wrote: »

McGuinness has stated his wish to move forward and not dwell on the past. I fear he cannot afford to dwell on his past, because it could be capable of doing him a lot of damage politically. If Sinn Fein want to run a candidate for the presidency, by all means let them do so, but i think it should be one less explosive (no pun intended) than he.

Some people will never support McGuinness because of his past, which is fair enough, but it will be grossly hypocritical to focus solely on his PIRA activities when it's quite clear that (p)SF have made the transition from a party which was the mouthpiece for the PIRA to embracing democratic politics hook, line and sinker.

Tl; DR

It's Hypocritical to whinge about McGuinness' past when we have consistently elected people in this state to position of office who've also had murky backgrounds but made the transition along the line to embracing peace and democratic politics.

JupiterKid · 19-09-2011 5:06pm

wilson10 wrote: »

It's simple really, I'm old enough to remember the daily images of slaughter and mayhem on the streets, I was never actually present to see the sights we were protected from, you know, the blood and guts and severed limbs, thank God, I'm sure I wouldn't be much good in such a situation.

Consequently I could not accept as my international representative someone who may have been involved in planning and plotting such atrocities but certainly represented the people who did and failed to denounce the killing of innocent people going about their daily business, even women and children.

By the way what's a Sindo twat ?

I hate to show my ignorance but is it something to do with the Sunday Independent ??

I'll join you on that asylum waiting list Wilson10. The prospect of a former senior IRA terrorist of being the Head of State of my country is appalling.

Yes, I know the Unionists have had to swallow a very bitter pill with repect to Sinn Fein being in the Assembly up North, but the prospect of an SF President is a bridge to far for me and many in the Republic.

FTA69 · 19-09-2011 5:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sinn Fein are not even a generation removed from punishment beatings, bullets, and semtex, and they're proposing to put a confessed former senior IRA commander into the Aras, and at the expense of the good progress he seems to be making in the Northern Executive.

It wouldn't be the first time it happened, when De Valera went into Leinster House many of his deputies arrived armed to the teeth. The likes of De Valera and O'Kelly were actively involved in the nuts and bolts of IRA organisation, including the procurement of arms and their use on various military and civilian targets (legitimate or otherwise.) The Irish political tradition has long encompassed those with a past in armed struggle, even today's government includes figures were heavily involved in the Official IRA in the 1980s.

Before the inevitable comparisons with Michael Collins and Nelson Mandela and so forth are made, i think i should stress that i feel that McGuinness is not in the same league as either of those. The provisional IRA did not enjoy the support of the majority of people of the country, and were widely abhorred by the majority. regardless of the self-righteousness of their struggle. I also think a level of callousness, corruption, and general disregard for innocent human life in how that organisation went about it's business sets it apart from the genuine political struggles of Collins, Mandela, and the like.

Michael Collins never had a mandate from anyone when he and his comrades took it upon themselves in 1916 to go out and shoot and kill in the name of Irish freedom. In fact he was involved in the IRB years before the 1918 election and like other Republicans at the time never predicated their actions on any concept of election or mandate. If you think there is a massive gulf between Collins and those who came after him then you're engaging in the worst of revisionism to be honest.

Furthermore, as far as i have ever heard, the only way out of the IRA was in a box.

Any IRA Volunteer could leave the organisation at any time, the above is a common misconception which is entirely untrue. People came and went from the IRA all the time.

I won't be living in Ireland at the time of the election, but I wouldn't vote for him for the simple fact that he's a politically centrist conservative Catholic type, and a liar. I wouldn;t refuse to vote for him out of some misplaced sense of historical impropriety.

LordSutch · 19-09-2011 6:53pm

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I don't see the point of McGuinness running - he simply just cannot win.

Of course he can't win, but that's not the point of the exercise!

HellsAngel · 19-09-2011 7:34pm

crucamim wrote: »

It is strange how often anti-Provos are also anti-Priest. Conor Cruise O'Brien, Dr Noel Browne, Jim Kemmy, Nuala Fennell and sundry Stickies.

The priests have been anti Republican and totally pro British down the years i.e. 1798, 1803, 1867, 1916 -1921 etc

HellsAngel · 19-09-2011 7:50pm

Would electing MMcG be the final nail in the coffin for Fianna Fail ? Think of the ammunition it would give to O'Cuiv before he walks out.

crucamim · 19-09-2011 9:43pm

HellsAngel wrote: »

The priests have been anti Republican and totally pro British down the years i.e. 1798, 1803, 1867, 1916 -1921 etc

I do not disagree. But the point still remains. Eire people who have voiced hostility to the Provos have also shown great hostility to the RC Church. Not always. Gay Mitchell has shown him self to be anti-Prove and also an enemy of Ulster Catholics but he has been a supporter of the RC Church in Eire. Take, for example, many of the posters on Boards ie. The most vicious attacks on the Ulster Catholic freedom fighters have come from people who have made vicious attacks on the RC Church.

wilson10 · 19-09-2011 9:48pm

walrusgumble wrote: »

Ok,

but you will also be well aware of the same Martin McGuinness and Co sitting out laughing with Rev Ian Paisley in Belfast in 2007-2008.(Should have been earlier - but that is just as much Paisley's fault too, he waited till he got power and used the troubles to get himself over the Ulster Unionist) Oh I suppose ye lot don't think Paisley had any responsibilities for the nonsense. Martin has had no major problems with with hard man Robinson.

Point: If people of the Unionist area are able to stomach McGuinness as leader in Stormount, then he should be given the same courtesy here. (I am not saying that they wanted him a 1st Minister, they clearly did not, nut then they would not want an SDLP one either)

what is to be achieved on dragging up the past. It ain't going to hurt people like McGuinnness as much as it might with Adams.

I hope you take the same view, for the purpose of consistency, with say, Nelson Mandela. And before you say anything, many people around the international world are willing to accept comparisons (whether they are naive is another matter)

SINDO, yes, the likes of Eoghan Harris and Co. (At least , I think, he would be consistent on his views on Provo's though) and then over at the Indo, Kevin Myers.

Ah yes I've heard that one quite a few times now, it was used a fair bit by Fianna Fail during the last election campaign, what is to be achieved by dragging up the past, we are where we are, we must look to the future and move forward.

I must try it out the next time I'm done for speeding, I won't pay the fine, opt for court and plead, "but your honour, maybe I was doin 90 in a 50, but sure that was 2 months ago. What's to be achieved by dragging up the past, we are where we are, we must look to the future".

"OK, case dismissed, next please".

Not fukcin likely, no, we must face up to our responsibilities and the damage we do can't be undone, thousands of lives lost, thousands more maimed and thousands of families lives wrecked for generations. That can't just be waived aside and forgotten about over a couple of years.

19-09-2011 9:59pm

crucamim wrote: »

I do not disagree. But the point still remains. Eire people who have voiced hostility to the Provos have also shown great hostility to the RC Church. Not always. Gay Mitchell has shown him self to be anti-Prove and also an enemy of Ulster Catholics but he has been a supporter of the RC Church in Eire. Take, for example, many of the posters on Boards ie. The most vicious attacks on the Ulster Catholic freedom fighters have come from people who have made vicious attacks on the RC Church.

I have already warned twice to get back on topic. This thread is not about religion. 24h ban for failing to listen to mod warning.
Anyone else starts on about it will get the same.

Delancey · 19-09-2011 10:43pm

Anyone see today's BBC interview with Martin McGuinness ?

I don't wish to sound like a ' Grammar Nazi ' but he came across as quite poorly educated - his statement of '' there are things the IRA done '' was cringe-worthy , I do think its important for the President to project a good image of Ireland and not convinced McGuiness can do that.

Wish John Hume would go forward as a candidate.

Spudmonkey · 19-09-2011 10:44pm

Topic on the Frontline now.

c montgomery · 19-09-2011 10:47pm

Delancey wrote: »

Anyone see today's BBC interview with Martin McGuinness ?

I don't wish to sound like a ' Grammar Nazi ' but he came across as quite poorly educated - his statement of '' there are things the IRA done '' was cringe-worthy , I do think its important for the President to project a good image of Ireland and not convinced McGuiness can do that.

Wish John Hume would go forward as a candidate.

Achieved;)

K-9 · 19-09-2011 10:57pm

Excellent documentary on BBC1 NI now.

Delancey wrote: »

Wish John Hume would go forward as a candidate.

Liam Byrne · 19-09-2011 11:12pm

Delancey wrote: »

Anyone see today's BBC interview with Martin McGuinness ?

I don't wish to sound like a ' Grammar Nazi ' but he came across as quite poorly educated - his statement of '' there are things the IRA done '' was cringe-worthy , I do think its important for the President to project a good image of Ireland and not convinced McGuiness can do that.

Wish John Hume would go forward as a candidate.

Pretty pathetic alright, however there are far bigger issues as to why he shouldn't be president.

anymore · 19-09-2011 11:32pm

HellsAngel wrote: »

The priests have been anti Republican and totally pro British down the years i.e. 1798, 1803, 1867, 1916 -1921 etc

On the contrary there is strong evidence that one Catholic priest was actaully invloved in planning bombings in the North.

K-9 · 19-09-2011 11:45pm

Fascinating programme on the red button on BBC1, 1969 Derry and the environment Hume and McGuinness Grew up in.

Mezcita · 19-09-2011 11:55pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

I'll join you on that asylum waiting list Wilson10. The prospect of a former senior IRA terrorist of being the Head of State of my country is appalling.

Yes, I know the Unionists have had to swallow a very bitter pill with repect to Sinn Fein being in the Assembly up North, but the prospect of an SF President is a bridge to far for me and many in the Republic.

That's pretty much the key point for me. From an international point of view we are already a basket case and McGuinness being elected would certainly raise a few eyebrows.

I think that his decision to run as a candidate will encourage more people to go out and vote. But I don't think it will be to vote for him.

Wolfe Tone · 20-09-2011 12:29am

http://www.politics.ie/forum/sinn-fein/170590-michael-mc-dowell-just-lied-frontline.html

RTE are going all out on the anti MMG front

Liam Byrne · 20-09-2011 12:37am

WT - how do you know if that poster on politics.ie is genuine ?

jimmycrackcorm · 20-09-2011 12:39am

I despise Sinn Fein because of their idiotic economics policies and the fact that they do one thing in the north regarding cuts but object to them in the "free state".

However I'll give my vote to McGuinness. His history is no different to that of the people who brought this state into being. I think that most people who object to him based on his history are people who rarely if ever at all have been in the north and have little or no appreciation of the difference in life now there.

Wolfe Tone · 20-09-2011 12:42am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

WT - how do you know if that poster on politics.ie is genuine ?

The lad has been posting there for a long time, he is the mans son. You can check back over his previous posts if you want.

anymore · 20-09-2011 1:05am

Mezcita wrote: »

That's pretty much the key point for me. From an international point of view we are already a basket case and McGuinness being elected would certainly raise a few eyebrows.

I think that his decision to run as a candidate will encourage more people to go out and vote. But I don't think it will be to vote for him.

Well logically people educated in irish national schools in the 40'a , 50's and early 60's ought to vote for him because he went and did the things that our national education was telling us was the did to do , i.e free our country from protestant England - ' in spite of dungeon fire and swords, A nation Once Again, And father Murphy form Old Kilcormac, etc, etc, etc.
Remember The old articles 2 and 3 of the Constitution ? I dont vote SF, but i do remember the good old days.
Whats all the B/s about going to the Garden of Remembrance ?

Fred Cohen · 20-09-2011 1:07am

Mezcita wrote: »

That's pretty much the key point for me. From an international point of view we are already a basket case and

I don't think we are seen as a basket case, I think we are seen as sheep who will take whatever is imposed on us and we will because the only way out of this is through work and getting people back to work.

I also think that we as a nation need to get up off our knees, raise our heads and say No, it is not acceptable to raise the salary of the CEO of AIB from €500,000 to €690,000 when we are dismissing resource teachers.

On Martin McGuiness, I think he's better than the lot before us.

A Primal Nut · 20-09-2011 1:55am

I wonder will McGuinness sign into law, any legislation which is opposed vehemently by Sinn Fein. Indeed, most legislation put forward by this government would be opposed by Sinn Fein. I wonder would he resign if something particularly strongly against their policies went through. I can see McGuinness being put under a lot of pressure by his supporters not to sign certain legislation.

Pompey Magnus · 20-09-2011 2:45am

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I wonder will McGuinness sign into law, any legislation which is opposed vehemently by Sinn Fein. Indeed, most legislation put forward by this government would be opposed by Sinn Fein. I wonder would he resign if something particularly strongly against their policies went through. I can see McGuinness being put under a lot of pressure by his supporters not to sign certain legislation.

If he was presented with an issue he regarded as of great national importance then why shouldn't he refuse to sign it? That power is in the constitution for a reason.

He would have been more likely to refuse to sign the dubious "Banker's Bailout" bill than Mary McAleese ever was. I would have expected that McGuinness, in that position, would have used his powers to refer it to the Supreme Court, an opportunity that McAleese declined to take.

CptMackey · 20-09-2011 8:43am

Does he accept the legitimacy of the Irish army or does he still believe (wrongly) that the ira are the legit force? Also has he ever answered what he did to mr hegarty who he lured to Derry from Donegal and was later found murdered?

We can't forget his brutal past and then on the other hand hang Norris with his.

Martin McGuinness to be named as Sinn Féins candidate for the Presidential Election?

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