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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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firearm renewal suppressor question

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  • 23-11-2015 11:48am
    #1
    Kells1
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭


    I have just received my firearm renewal form for my hmr. I see that there is a new section 4.2 which asks the question Does your current firearms certificate authorise the possession of a silencer ? You have to tick yes or no. If i tick yes as i do have current authorisation is that enough to get authorisation for the new licence?or do i have to re write a letter stating why i need the silencer etc? I do notice that there is no mention of the actual silencer i currently have permission for ie. the make and model no for it on the renewal form


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    #2
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    As said on another thread i received two re-applications, and my Father three over the last month. For section 4.2 (silencer) i ticked yes, and sent them back in. Got the licenses with the authorisation for the suppressor within a week.

    The FCR are technically, as i was correctly reminded, re-applications and not renewals. However they work just like a renewal. IOW once the details for you having the gun/license have not changed you just check the details, tick any necessary boxes and return.

    If you're in any way nervous, which there is no reason to be, then supply a letter of reasons why you continue to need the suppressor.
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    #3
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Kells1 wrote: »
    I see that there is a new section 4.2 which asks the question Does your current firearms certificate authorise the possession of a silencer ? You have to tick yes or no. If i tick yes as i do have current authorisation is that enough to get authorisation for the new licence?or do i have to re write a letter stating why i need the silencer etc? I do notice that there is no mention of the actual silencer i currently have permission for ie. the make and model no for it on the renewal form

    If you already have the magic "S" on your licence, then tick "Yes" on the form. There is no need to submit another letter.

    That said, if you get your new licence and there isn't the letter "S" on it, then just show them your old licence and they can fix that problem for you. That's what happened me. I ticked yes but then when the licence arrived, the permission wasn't on the licence. I went into the Garda station, showed them my old licence with the letter "S" on it and there was no problem. They reissued the licence with the permission on it.

    Makes and models of silencers/moderators are never kept on record - at least my one isn't, so I wouldn't worry about that.


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    #4
    Kells1
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Kells1


    Thanks for the help


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    #5
    Wadi14
    Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    If you already have the magic "S" on your licence, then tick "Yes" on the form. There is no need to submit another letter.

    That said, if you get your new licence and there isn't the letter "S" on it, then just show them your old licence and they can fix that problem for you. That's what happened me. I ticked yes but then when the licence arrived, the permission wasn't on the licence. I went into the Garda station, showed them my old licence with the letter "S" on it and there was no problem. They reissued the licence with the permission on it.

    Makes and models of silencers/moderators are never kept on record - at least my one isn't, so I wouldn't worry about that.

    Never say never in Ireland, in my District you have to put a Garda issued serial number on your mod for their records


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    #6
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Wadi14 wrote: »
    Never say never in Ireland, in my District you have to put a Garda issued serial number on your mod for their records

    Wha??????

    Seriously?


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    #7
    hexosan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭hexosan


    Wadi14 wrote: »
    Never say never in Ireland, in my District you have to put a Garda issued serial number on your mod for their records


    Never heard of that before. Can you give the Garda division.


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    #8
    HW100S
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭HW100S


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    If you already have the magic "S" on your licence, then tick "Yes" on the form. There is no need to submit another letter.

    That should be the case but I recently did a substitution and the Guarda insisted I submit a letter even though I already have the S on my licence.
    This was also the case when I changed a rifle last year - I have a mod but had to submit a letter.
    Depends on the Guard I suppose.
    It wasnt much hassle really as he handed me out a pen & paper and I just quickly wrote down a few lines why I needed the moderator, that was good enough for him.


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    #9
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    HW100S wrote: »
    That should be the case but I recently did a substitution and the Guarda insisted I submit a letter even though I already have the S on my licence.
    This was also the case when I changed a rifle last year - I have a mod but had to submit a letter.
    Depends on the Guard I suppose.
    It wasnt much hassle really as he handed me out a pen & paper and I just quickly wrote down a few lines why I needed the moderator, that was good enough for him.

    Was it a same calibre substitution or were you going from something like a .22lr to a 223?

    Like you said though, if the Gardai ask for a letter, it's no big deal to give them one.


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    #10
    HW100S
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭HW100S


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Was it a same calibre substitution or were you going from something like a .22lr to a 223?

    Like you said though, if the Gardai ask for a letter, it's no big deal to give them one.

    Yes, I was subbing one air rifle for another - same calibre on both.


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    #11
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    HW100S wrote: »
    This was also the case when I changed a rifle last year - I have a mod but had to submit a letter.
    Depends on the Guard I suppose..

    I had this during my last bunch of FCRs. The Garda had my applications for weeks and sent out letters asking for extra letters for the suppressors among other things. Told him it wasn't necessary, but he insisted that if he sent the FCRs over without these the re-applications would be refused.

    I went down, took all my FCrs off him, and sent them directly to the the Super's office in the main station. 4 days later licenses start to arrive in the post.

    Some are empowering themselves with authority they don't possess. Now in some cases it's easier to just give what they ask for, but at a certain point i'll draw the line. Serial numbers issued for suppressors would be one of those.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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    #12
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Cass wrote: »

    Serial numbers issued for suppressors would be one of those.


    This thread is the first time that I have ever heard of that. I'm fairly sure that it is not written in legislation anywhere that you must put serial numbers on moderators.

    If it is, I'm sure Sparks will be along shortly to correct me. :D


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    #13
    Bogwoppit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    This thread is the first time that I have ever heard of that. I'm fairly sure that it is not written in legislation anywhere that you must put serial numbers on moderators.

    If it is, I'm sure Sparks will be along shortly to correct me. :D

    I'll have to check but I'm pretty sure mine doesn't have one.


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    #14
    Wadi14
    Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    I'm pretty sure you don't need a serial number for a suppressor as well, but I was give one to engrave onto my suppressor and present to local station, I could have said no I'm not putting that on , but then I wouldn't have a suppressor lol. Buncrana District in Donegal


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    #15
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Wadi14 wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure you don't need a serial number for a suppressor as well, but I was give one to engrave onto my suppressor and present to local station, I could have said no I'm not putting that on , but then I wouldn't have a suppressor lol. Buncrana District in Donegal

    Sounds like a makey-uppey law to me.


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    #16
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I'm fairly sure that it is not written in legislation anywhere that you must put serial numbers on moderators.
    It's not.

    A suppressor is, under law, a firearm in itself. It's why we require the authorisation on our licenses in the form of the "S" to be in possession of one. However as they are not sold or marketed as a firearm in ANY OTHER country, especially the ones that make them, it means that Ireland is unique in it's request to have a serial number.

    That being said i have heard of this in only one other instance. It was incredulous then and remains so today. It's a completely unlawful demand, in that a person could refuse to comply and would win as there is no legislation to back it up.
    Bogwoppit wrote: »
    I'll have to check but I'm pretty sure mine doesn't have one.
    Nor do any of mine.
    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Sounds like a makey-uppey law to me.
    As above, it's completely makey-uppey. However i can understand, without agreeing, as to why lads do it. To get what they want. Like in previous threads on the same topic, it's a slippery slope and one that we need to be careful of. IOW if we cede certain issues that no basis in law, how long will it be before they request/demand criteria that simply cannot be fulfilled?
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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    #17
    ecr
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭ecr


    What does one do if the super refuses to grant a silencer even tho a letter stating reason for having one was submitted his reason for refusal was public safety


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    #18
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Two things will effect the way you go:
    • Did you have permission for it previously/on another gun
    • Is it a re-application (renewal) or a new application

    As it's a firearm you must appeal to the district court about the matter. This would be one way to deal with either of the situations above.

    However if it's a re-application, renewal or if you think having a chat with the Super is best (before going the court route) you can make an appointment to see him/her and explain your position.

    Namely:
    • That a suppressor, while legally a firearm in it's own right, is just a hollow tube of metal and not capable of being a danger to public safety.
    • That you were granted the firearm, and without bringing up a possible problem, and it (the gun) would be the item that would be danger and not the the suppressor. So if you're deemed fit to have the firearm why would you be a danger with a suppressor.
    • That in a high court case, not too long ago, the Justice hearing the case dismissed the Garda Superintendents claim that stating public safety without showing actual causes for his/her (Superintendent) concerns is not in itself a reason. IOW you cannot say they're dangerous without showing why they are. (i'll try dig out where this was said)

    If he still refuses then you may lodge an appeal with the district court, but must do so within 30 days of being refused.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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