Gay people should 'seek help'. Northern MP compares homosexuality to bestiality.

dlofnep · 13-06-2012 11:38pm

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

I didn't defend what he was saying, I said he is entitled to express such views. Perhaps you should read the posts properly.

I read your posts properly, and it absolutely looks like you were defending what he was saying. You stated that it won't harm the Unionist cause. You assured us that his views were held by a large portion of people in society. You then shared with us that you congratulated him for expressing his views. Would you come into a random thread to do such a thing if you weren't defending his views?

Don't come in here and try to masquerade as some sort of objective commentator. You're very clearly in support of his outburst - which isn't a matter of opinion, or a matter of having views. It's misinformed, ignorant nonsense that has no scientific or logical grounding.

Patrick Cleburne · 13-06-2012 11:56pm

dlofnep wrote: »

I read your posts properly, and it absolutely looks like you were defending what he was saying. You stated that it won't harm the Unionist cause. You assured us that his views were held by a large portion of people in society. You then shared with us that you congratulated him for expressing his views. Would you come into a random thread to do such a thing if you weren't defending his views?

Don't come in here and try to masquerade as some sort of objective commentator. You're very clearly in support of his outburst - which isn't a matter of opinion, or a matter of having views. It's misinformed, ignorant nonsense that has no scientific or logical grounding.

Then you read wrongly and that is not my problem.

I said he was entitled to his views, it won't harm Unionism (it won't) and I am a supporter of free speech and people using the liberty they have to express views even if some people don't like them. I might not like what you have to say but I will defend your right to say it. That is what my point was.

I haven't even posted my actual opinion on homosexuality.

Solair · 14-06-2012 12:03am

This is the very kind of thing that will frighten off inwards investment in Northern Ireland.

Do you seriously think that some trendy IT company's going to invest somewhere supposedly 'main stream' politicians come out with this kind of nonsense.

Northern Ireland already has a harder sell than most places given that it has to overcome the perception that it's an active war zone that many people still have.

This kind of thing just does yet more damage to its reputation.

Do these guys want to plunge NI into the dark ages or what?!

Brer Fox · 14-06-2012 12:05am

dlofnep wrote: »

If you don't favour homosexuality, don't engage in same-sex relations. You have no right or business to tell what consenting adults do in their own private affairs. But such a view is mild in comparison to comparing homosexuality to bestiality like this politician did. How on earth two people coming together who love in each in marriage changes in anyway because they are the same sex is beyond me. It's merely the icing on the cake for a couple - to cement their commitment to each other.

If the thing was kept private that would be a different matter. But the problem is that some people want homosexual 'marriage'. That will impact on everyone, because little children will be taught it in schools, churches will be forced to conduct ceremonies (despite assurances that this won't happen in the UK, look at Denmark) and so on. This affects everyone.

seamus wrote: »

There's also a portion of public opinion which believes that black people should be "sent home" and women shouldn't be allowed work.

Just because these opinions exist, doesn't mean it's OK for a politician to reflect them.

The man reflects the opinions of many.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well actually you can do something to change it - hate speech can be prosecuted in the UK, and as I understand it he lives in the UK, no? We'll see how smart he is when the CPS are knocking on his door.

Many people express hatred for Jews and black people and Unionists too - it doesn't make it right, does it?

You can't bully or threaten people to make them agree with you or silence them. People can freely hold that gay sex is wrong and that's that.

Laminations · 14-06-2012 12:25am

Brer Fox wrote: »

If the thing was kept private that would be a different matter. But the problem is that some people want homosexual 'marriage'. That will impact on everyone, because little children will be taught it in schools, churches will be forced to conduct ceremonies (despite assurances that this won't happen in the UK, look at Denmark) and so on. This affects everyone.

You cannot be taught to be homosexual.

The man reflects the opinions of many.

Yes he does, not just many unionists, but many ignorant and confused people with many creeds and causes. Popularity of an opinion (and I'd hope this opinion is the minority) doesn't make it right, especially when its an ill informed opinion.

You can't bully or threaten people to make them agree with you or silence them. People can freely hold that gay sex is wrong and that's that.

They shouldn't be threatened but they should be challenged to defend their position. Why is gay sex wrong?

Laminations · 14-06-2012 12:32am

Nodin wrote: »

Away ye go.

http://www.jimallister.org/default.asp?blogID=1326

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ghost-of-dups-past-reappears-as-gay-rights-row-haunts-party-16028497.html

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/09/03/uup-contender-tom-elliott-says-he-wont-attend-gay-pride-marches/

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/iris-robinsons-gay-outburst-leads-to-street-protests-official-complaints-and-calls-to-quit-13918085.html

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/first-minister-peter-robinson-backs-wifes-view-that-gays-are-an-abomination-14023693.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/6705637.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_Ulster_from_Sodomy

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/02/16/no-gays-on-speakers-conference-but-dup-preacher-is-appointed/

So you giving 8 cases of people (who happen to be unionists) giving personal opinions against homosexual marriage constitutes some special homophobic mantra embedded in unionist politics? Those sources are individuals opinions and based on religious grounds not political/unionist. There is nothing inherently homophobic about a unionist politician.

'Tom Elliott told the Belfast Telegraph: “I have indicated at party meetings that whilst some members of our party would go to gay pride marches or GAA matches, I wouldn’t go.'

It is not a party position, it just so happens that many party members may also share religious ideas that they'd have if they were unionists, republicans, french or dutch. It is unacceptable.

Him being unionist has as much to do with this thread as him being from Northern Ireland or him being a man. His personal religious beliefs and ignorance on the subject are what have informed his views

Brer Fox · 14-06-2012 12:35am

Laminations wrote: »

You cannot be taught to be homosexual.

There is a learned aspect to homosexuality. It can be reinforced by repetition. What might begin as insecurity or curiosity can, if acted on, lead to an attachment to the behaviour.

Homosexuality is not something that little children normally conceive unless it is introduced to them. Doing so is manipulative and abusive.

Gay sex is not open to life nor does it respect the complementarity of the human persons created male and female. Gay sex is wrong because it is a mockery of the intentions of the Creator. I think most sensible people intuit this, even as they have been silenced by the media campaign waged over the last couple decades, such that now, to express what was the normal view until recently, can carry a heavy cost for the individual concerned, such as loss of employment or ruined chances of promotion.

Ambersky · 14-06-2012 12:41am

Homosexuality is not wrong. It is only wrong to be a practicing homosexual.
But if you keep practicing you will eventually get very good at it and then you will no longer be a practicing homosexual.

BluntGuy · 14-06-2012 12:41am

Brer Fox wrote: »

...because little children will be taught it in schools...

Heaven forbid children being brought up without prejudice against homosexuals.

You can't bully or threaten people to make them agree with you or silence them.

But it's okay to bully people by telling them they can't get married or that expressing their sexuality is "unnatural" because a piece of 2000 year old tat allegedly says so.

There is a learned aspect to homosexuality. It can be reinforced by repetition. What might begin as insecurity or curiosity can, if acted on, lead to an attachment to the behaviour.

Evidence?

Homosexuality is not something that little children normally conceive unless it is introduced to them. Doing so is manipulative and abusive.

Teaching kids that being gay or bisexual is somehow wrong is manipulative and abusive.

Gay sex is wrong because it is a mockery of the intentions of the Creator.

"The Creator" shouldn't have created gay people then.

...to express what was the normal view until recently, can carry a heavy cost for the individual concerned, such as loss of employment or ruined chances of promotion.

And rightly so. Just as "normal views" that were previously held in decades past about black people, immigrants, women etc. would result in the same.

Laminations · 14-06-2012 12:44am

dlofnep wrote: »

I created this thread to highlight the comments made with regards to homophobia. The fact that it was a Unionist politician is a matter of fact, and isn't something I can change or omit from an article just to suit your conspiracy theories.

The fact he is northern irish is a matter of fact, the fact he is a man is a matter of fact, the fact he is white is a matter of fact but none of these facts led you to generalise his views to people who share those characteristics. People can be against homosexual marriage but not homosexuality, and they can be against it for many different reasons (none of which I agree with). Others, like this eejit can be against homosexuals fullstop. Equating politicians (unionists or otherwise) who have ever said anything negative (likely ignorant comments) about homosexuality with this guy and his really ignorant and vile comments like Nodin has tried to do with all of his links to other 'statements' is broad brushing and an attempt to make this an issue about unionism rather than this fool and his views.

How does wanting Northern Ireland to remain part of the UK have anything inherently homophobic about it?

It is like suggesting that people who attend college attain high marks, when the real predictor is not attendance but independent study. These are called mediating variables. Religious views would be the important variable I'd imagine.

Ambersky · 14-06-2012 12:47am

Yes it is also true there is definitely a learned aspect to homosexuality it does take a bit of effort and work and you have to be interested in pleasing the other person.
But because the other person has the same body parts as you, more or less, you also have a certain insight on how to please that person sexually.
Now it doesn't always click automatically but it can be very good, if you practice like I said.

Laminations · 14-06-2012 12:48am

Brer Fox wrote: »

There is a learned aspect to homosexuality. It can be reinforced by repetition. What might begin as insecurity or curiosity can, if acted on, lead to an attachment to the behaviour.

Homosexuality is not something that little children normally conceive unless it is introduced to them. Doing so is manipulative and abusive.

Gay sex is not open to life nor does it respect the complementarity of the human persons created male and female. Gay sex is wrong because it is a mockery of the intentions of the Creator. I think most sensible people intuit this, even as they have been silenced by the media campaign waged over the last couple decades, such that now, to express what was the normal view until recently, can carry a heavy cost for the individual concerned, such as loss of employment or ruined chances of promotion.

Rubbish. You didn't have to be taught to be a heterosexual. No one is taught who to be attracted to. Read up on the aversion therapy experiments of Aubrey Levin. On the nature-nurture debate sexuality is massively nature. The Creator? Why did he create gay people then? Why would a supreme being create a mockery of themselves?

Brer Fox · 14-06-2012 12:56am

BluntGuy wrote: »

Heaven forbid children being brought up without prejudice against homosexuals.

I was taught nothing about homosexuals as a child. Never knew they existed.

But it's okay to bully people by telling them they can't get married or that expressing their sexuality is "unnatural" because a piece of 2000 year old tat allegedly says so.

The natural law shows that gay sex is not the way it was meant to be. As the eyes are for seeing, and the nose for smelling, the reproductive organs have a very specific purpose. The male and female are made for each other. You cannot say that about two men or two women. It's like -/- or +/+. It just doesn't work. But +/-, yes, that works. We all know this.

Evidence?

Teaching kids that being gay or bisexual is somehow wrong is manipulative and abusive.

I was not taught this in Catholic primary school.

And rightly so. Just as "normal views" that were previously held in decades past about black people, immigrants, women etc. would result in the same.

No, sodomy was exalted by ancient peoples. What comes around goes around I suppose. But the natural law is written into nature itself.

Ambersky · 14-06-2012 12:58am

It's like -/- or +/+. It just doesn't work. But +/-, yes, that works. We all know this

No actually there is a lovely fit. It works beautifully

Laminations · 14-06-2012 12:59am

Brer Fox wrote: »

The natural law shows that gay sex is not the way it was meant to be. As the eyes are for seeing, and the nose for smelling, the reproductive organs have a very specific purpose. The male and female are made for each other. You cannot say that about two men or two women. It's like -/- or +/+. It just doesn't work. But +/-, yes, that works. We all know this.

Fvck, where does that leave masturbation?

No, sodomy was exalted by ancient peoples. What comes around goes around I suppose. But the natural law is written into nature itself.

written into nature itself? explain that statement

Ambersky · 14-06-2012 1:03am

I thought I was in the politics forum.
Where am I?
Is this ok?
Are we going to need an anatomy and sex lesson and would that be ok with the mods?
Im afraid of where this is going with talk of ar**s and front and back bottoms.
Dont mean to be coy but dont want to get a ban.

BluntGuy · 14-06-2012 1:04am

gavinbell wrote: »

why cant the jus **** a woman up the arse rather than a bloke, problem solved, if they want to suck dick they could get a bottom rib removed.

What problem is being solved here?

Brer Fox wrote:

I was taught nothing about homosexuals as a child. Never knew they existed.

Well they do exist, and children should be made aware that homosexuality is perfectly fine and normal. No one is "taught" to be attracted to men or women. Did you have lessons in school teaching you how to be attracted to women?

The natural law shows that gay sex is not the way it was meant to be. As the eyes are for seeing, and the nose for smelling, the reproductive organs have a very specific purpose. The male and female are made for each other. You cannot say that about two men or two women.

You say "the natural law" as though it's some obvious, self-evident thing. As Laminations asked of gavinbell, I'd like a source for these apparently self-evident and universal laws.

It's like -/- or +/+. It just doesn't work. But +/-, yes, that works. We all know this.

???????????

No, sodomy was exalted by ancient peoples. What comes around goes around I suppose. But the natural law is written into nature itself.

I don't see it written anywhere.

K-9 · 14-06-2012 1:06am

Thread locked for obvious reasons.

Gay people should 'seek help'. Northern MP compares homosexuality to bestiality.

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