Gay people should 'seek help'. Northern MP compares homosexuality to bestiality.

dlofnep

Ken Maginnis, an MP in the north was on the Nolan Show on BBC Radio this morning discussing the topic of same-sex marriage. The vitriol from this man is absolutely horrid. He compared same-sex marriage to bestiality, as it was apparently a deviant malpractice against the nature of society. Then asked what gay people should do when they realise they are attracted to the same sex, he suggested that they should seek counselling. He also tried to link homosexuals and paedophilia.

What a revolting and disgusting ideology, and unfortunately - it's all too common from politicians within unionist parties. I truly feel sorry for gay unionists who are in favour of the union, but have very limited alternatives to these morons.

You can listen to the full interview: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01js1l8/The_Nolan_Show_13_06_2012/

wes

Read this earlier and it should high light that there appears to be a general negative attitude to Homosexuality in the North:

Homosexual prejudice in Northern Ireland getting worse, says report

So this kind of attitude doesn't seem to be isolated sadly.

Manach

Whilst he might be maladroit in expressing his viewpoint he reflects a portion of public opinion, my own included, that does not favour homosexuality.

maximoose

Manach wrote: »

Whilst he might be maladroit in expressing his viewpoint he reflects a portion of public opinion, my own included, that does not favour homosexuality.

There's not favouring homosexuality, and then there's comparing it to having sex with animals. Which is bloody ridiculous.

dlofnep

Manach wrote: »

Whilst he might be maladroit in expressing his viewpoint he reflects a portion of public opinion, my own included, that does not favour homosexuality.

If you don't favour homosexuality, don't engage in same-sex relations. You have no right or business to tell what consenting adults do in their own private affairs. But such a view is mild in comparison to comparing homosexuality to bestiality like this politician did. How on earth two people coming together who love in each in marriage changes in anyway because they are the same sex is beyond me. It's merely the icing on the cake for a couple - to cement their commitment to each other.

Nodin

Manach wrote: »

Whilst he might be maladroit in expressing his viewpoint he reflects a portion of public opinion, my own included, that does not favour homosexuality.

He stated that bestiality was a "rung on the same ladder" as homosexuality. He said that if he had a gay neighbour he would worry about children in the area. Does he reflect your views there as well?

seamus

Manach wrote: »

Whilst he might be maladroit in expressing his viewpoint he reflects a portion of public opinion

There's also a portion of public opinion which believes that black people should be "sent home" and women shouldn't be allowed work.

Just because these opinions exist, doesn't mean it's OK for a politician to reflect them.

golfball37

Ken McGinnis hasn't been an MP for the bones of 15 years I'd say, long retired. Isn't he entitled to his opinion though? Just as people are entitled to call him out on it.

Corkfeen

golfball37 wrote: »

Ken McGinnis hasn't been an MP for the bones of 15 years I'd say, long retired. Isn't he entitled to his opinion though? Just as people are entitled to call him out on it.

Worrying that people voted for him in the first place. As a politician he should not air opinions in which he compares homosexuality to bestiality. It is simply not acceptable. It is pure hatred that is unfortunately still in society.

hatrickpatrick

I'm pretty confident that within the next couple of centuries most so called "victimless crime" will be completely gone from society and people will look back at remarks like these in the same way as we look back on a time when black people had to sit at the back of the bus.

It obviously happens very slowly, but IMO you can see each subsequent generation slowly moving towards permissiveness and individualism - "if you're a consenting adult it's none of my business".

Of course, I've been accused of incredibly irritating rabid optimism before, so...

dlofnep

golfball37 wrote: »

Ken McGinnis hasn't been an MP for the bones of 15 years I'd say, long retired. Isn't he entitled to his opinion though? Just as people are entitled to call him out on it.

You're right, he retired a few years back I see - but is still a member of the House of Lords. The point still remains however - that sort of vitriol has no place in politics in 2012. He may be entitled to his opinion - but he's not entitled to spread misinformation, stating that homosexuality is a choice, drawing a fallacious parallel to bestiality.

telly_lover

dlofnep wrote: »

Ken Maginnis, an MP in the north was on the Nolan Show on BBC Radio this morning discussing the topic of same-sex marriage. The vitriol from this man is absolutely horrid. He compared same-sex marriage to bestiality, as it was apparently a deviant malpractice against the nature of society. Then asked what gay people should do when they realise they are attracted to the same sex, he suggested that they should seek counselling. He also tried to link homosexuals and paedophilia.

What a revolting and disgusting ideology, and unfortunately - it's all too common from politicians within unionist parties. I truly feel sorry for gay unionists who are in favour of the union, but have very limited alternatives to these morons.

You can listen to the full interview: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01js1l8/The_Nolan_Show_13_06_2012/

northern ireland is the bible belt of europe , theese peoples ancestors built what is now the republican party in the usa

grizzly

"same-sex marriage to bestiality, as it was apparently a deviant malpractice against the nature of society"

Well the nature of society is whatever a given society is up to. If same sex couples marry then it would be with the nature of society.

The Waltzing Consumer

telly_lover wrote: »

northern ireland is the bible belt of europe , theese peoples ancestors built what is now the republican party in the usa

Pretty much, there is a section of religious unionism which is quite comparable to the civil rights / gay rights bashing republicans in the US.

Having said that, I much prefer to have this man laughed at for his outdated views then having anti-gay opposition that is encountered in many parts of catholic Africa or Catholic Eastern Europe where homosexuals are physically and not just verbally under attack. Orthodox Russians and Greeks ain't too fond of gay people either. Either are the Muslim countries come to think of it.

The man's views are crazy but at least in Ireland, the UK and America, there is some progression and opposition is mainly verbal and the standards of equality for all has a chance. We are decades above the standards of much of the world and that should continue and for every old fashioned religious nut who appears on radio, that will benefit not his views but the views of equality for all as he is shown as a loser and bigot.

Patrick Cleburne

He can give his opinion if he wants and a lot of Protestants would agree with him.

Benny_Cake

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

He can give his opinion if he wants and a lot of Protestants would agree with him.

Indeed he is entitled to give his (ludicrous) opinion, just as others are entitled to ridicule it. To be honest I hadn't seen or heard of him in the last ten years, I wasn't sure if he was still alive.

Monty Burnz

Manach wrote: »

Whilst he might be maladroit in expressing his viewpoint he reflects a portion of public opinion, my own included, that does not favour homosexuality.

How would you react if I said I don't favour black people?

Dr Galen

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Of course, I've been accused of incredibly irritating rabid optimism before, so...

Yes, you have...by me among others, but in this case I sincerely hope you are correct, and would share that optimism tbh.

Nodin

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

He can give his opinion if he wants and a lot of Protestants would agree with him.

Its not a view confined to one sect.

tfitzgerald

Comparing bestiality to homosexuality . I hope he realises he is after upsetting a lot of Kerry sheep farmers

Laminations

dlofnep wrote: »

What a revolting and disgusting ideology, and unfortunately - it's all too common from politicians within unionist parties. I truly feel sorry for gay unionists who are in favour of the union, but have very limited alternatives to these morons.

While confronting homophobic nonsense is to be encouraged, doing so with an agenda to attack unionists as a whole is pretty low.

Take your mates advice which he was obviously too cordial to dole out to you.

Nodin wrote: »

Its not a view confined to one sect.

Nodin

Laminations wrote: »

While confronting homophobic nonsense is to be encouraged, doing so with an agenda to attack unionists as a whole is pretty low.
.

The facts of the matter are that Uninoist parties are far more socially conservative than is the norm either side of the border.

Laminations wrote: »

Take your mates advice which he was obviously too cordial to dole out to you.

You seem to be confused about the difference between confessional allegiance and political ideology.

Laminations

Nodin wrote: »

The facts of the matter are that Uninoist parties are far more socially conservative than is the norm either side of the border.

Source?

If you're going to make a statement like that then provide proof. And how is it relevant to this man's comments? It's as low as saying 'Abu Hamza said infidels must die but that's what you expect from Muslims'. It's not acceptable. You'd gladly recognise that with any group but are slow to do so when it's unionists.

You seem to be confused about the difference between confessional allegiance and political ideology.

Nope.

Nodin

Laminations wrote: »

Source?.

Just to be clear....you're asking for a source to proove the social conservatism of the DUP, the UUP and the TUV.....

Laminations wrote: »

And how is it relevant to this mans comments?
.

Unionist MPs are lobbying against gay marriage.

Laminations

Nodin wrote: »

Just to be clear....you're asking for a source to proove the social conservatism of the DUP, the UUP and the TUV.....

I'm asking for a source for your claims and the claim that unionist politicians in generally are especially homophobic - a claim tagged on to the OP as a sly dig.

Unionist MPs are lobbying against gay marriage.

All of them are? And all with the same rationale as this man? They are the only political group who are? Is it because they are unionists or for some other characteristic they may share? Broad brushing suits you when the agenda is right.

Nodin

Laminations wrote: »

I'm asking for a source for your claims and the claim that unionist politicians in generally are especially homophobic - a claim tagged on to the OP as a sly dig..

Away ye go.

http://www.jimallister.org/default.asp?blogID=1326

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ghost-of-dups-past-reappears-as-gay-rights-row-haunts-party-16028497.html

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/09/03/uup-contender-tom-elliott-says-he-wont-attend-gay-pride-marches/

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/iris-robinsons-gay-outburst-leads-to-street-protests-official-complaints-and-calls-to-quit-13918085.html

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/first-minister-peter-robinson-backs-wifes-view-that-gays-are-an-abomination-14023693.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/6705637.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_Ulster_from_Sodomy

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/02/16/no-gays-on-speakers-conference-but-dup-preacher-is-appointed/

walshb

Nothing suprising here. The most bigoted and hateful people up the north are many of these unionists. Horrible crowd!

I remember reading an article about Johnny Adair doing charity work in Africa. You couldn't make it up.

walshb

Unionists up North are pretty much anti anything that is NOT them.

dlofnep

Laminations wrote: »

While confronting homophobic nonsense is to be encouraged, doing so with an agenda to attack unionists as a whole is pretty low.

I wasn't doing so with an agenda to attack Unionists at all, wise up. It just so happens that homophobia is a huge issue within Unionist parties with a broad range of Unionist politicians. There is a huge difference between Unionist parties and a Unionist population, and I'd expect you to know the difference.

I created this thread to highlight the comments made with regards to homophobia. The fact that it was a Unionist politician is a matter of fact, and isn't something I can change or omit from an article just to suit your conspiracy theories.

whitelines

telly_lover wrote: »

northern ireland is the bible belt of europe , theese peoples ancestors built what is now the republican party in the usa

I'm afraid that it was The Democrats that held sway in Dixie until relatively recently...

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

whitelines

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Indeed he is entitled to give his (ludicrous) opinion, just as others are entitled to ridicule it. To be honest I hadn't seen or heard of him in the last ten years, I wasn't sure if he was still alive.

If it was down to some in Sinn Fein, he wouldn't be.

Balls of Steel.

Patrick Cleburne

dlofnep wrote: »

I wasn't doing so with an agenda to attack Unionists at all, wise up. It just so happens that homophobia is a huge issue within Unionist parties with a broad range of Unionist politicians. There is a huge difference between Unionist parties and a Unionist population, and I'd expect you to know the difference.

I created this thread to highlight the comments made with regards to homophobia. The fact that it was a Unionist politician is a matter of fact, and isn't something I can change or omit from an article just to suit your conspiracy theories.

So what? Get over it. They have traditional views from the Bible and they stick to them. If you don't like it, don't read or listen to such views. And you certainly don't have to vote for them.

I say well done to the man for expressing his view and he is entitled to it. It won't harm the Unionist cause at all.

junder

walshb wrote: »

Nothing suprising here. The most bigoted and hateful people up the north are many of these unionists. Horrible crowd!

I remember reading an article about Johnny Adair doing charity work in Africa. You couldn't make it up.

It never ceases to amaze me the myopia that some republicans seem to display. I mean surly you can see it. Honestly you accuse unionists of being bigoted by making a bigoted statement yourself. Talk about illogical

walshb

junder wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me the myopia that some republicans seem to display. I mean surly you can see it. Honestly you accuse unionists of being bigoted by making a bigoted statement yourself. Talk about illogical

Unionists have shown many times that they are bigoted. Nothing illogical with me saying this. Read up on the history of the troubles for one god source. Or, read about one particlular incident, the Holy Cross dispute!

Monty Burnz

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

So what? Get over it. They have traditional views from the Bible and they stick to them. If you don't like it, don't read or listen to such views. And you certainly don't have to vote for them.

And we don't have to hear his stone-age views in silence either. The irony of you complaining about the complaints is apparently beyond you.

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

I say well done to the man for expressing his view and he is entitled to it. It won't harm the Unionist cause at all.

Except of course in the eyes of people who live in the 21st century.

Patrick Cleburne

Monty Burnz wrote: »

And we don't have to hear his stone-age views in silence either. The irony of you complaining about the complaints is apparently beyond you.

Except of course in the eyes of people who live in the 21st century.

It is this shock horror mentality that this guy is not possibly allowed to say these things which is the real joke in this. As if he isn't allowed to possibly be against homosexuality.

Not everyone is a liberal and left leaning Republican. At least he is backed up by many thousands of people in Ulster who would have a similar type of view which they get from the Bible and the values they hold.

Thank goodness the Ulster Protestant is still willing to speak out and say what he/she thinks.

walshb

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

It is this shock horror mentality that this guy is not possibly allowed to say these things which is the real joke in this. As if he isn't allowed to possibly be against homosexuality.

Not everyone is a liberal and left leaning Republican. At least he is backed up by many thousands of people in Ulster who would have a similar type of view which they get from the Bible and the values they hold.

Thank goodness the Ulster Protestant is still willing to speak out and say what he/she thinks.

That bible is really ****ing messed up, isn't it?

Monty Burnz

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

It is this shock horror mentality that this guy is not possibly allowed to say these things which is the real joke in this. As if he isn't allowed to possibly be against homosexuality.

Sure, he's allowed to be against it. Sure aren't people against blacks, and women and all sorts of things?

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Not everyone is a liberal and left leaning Republican. At least he is backed up by many thousands of people in Ulster who would have a similar type of view which they get from the Bible and the values they hold.

As a non-left leaning liberal Republican, I'm well aware of that. I don't particularly care whether they get their views from their own interpretation of the Bible, from Grimm's Fairytales, or any other collection of fairy stories as long as they don't denigrate other people.

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Thank goodness the Ulster Protestant is still willing to speak out and say what he/she thinks.

And thank goodness the Ku Klux Klan is doing the same in the USA, with the same book of fairy stories in their hands.

dlofnep

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

So what? Get over it.

Get over what exactly? Misinformed bigotry? Hate-speech? No thanks.

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

They have traditional views from the Bible and they stick to them.

I don't care where they get their views, or how traditional they are deemed. It doesn't make them valid, or correct.

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

If you don't like it, don't read or listen to such views. And you certainly don't have to vote for them.

Kind of hard not to hear such views when they are aired on a well renowned radio station, now isn't it? He can air his views if he likes - and I can, and will challenge said views.

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

I say well done to the man for expressing his view and he is entitled to it. It won't harm the Unionist cause at all.

So - Well done to a man who equated homosexuality with having sex with animals? You champion such rhetoric? It may not harm the Unionist cause - but it does harm the cause of society, which I'm afraid is far more important than national politics.

Denerick

whitelines wrote: »

I'm afraid that it was The Democrats that held sway in Dixie until relatively recently...

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

'Built what is NOW the republican party in the US'

He is still correct. Those voters merely migrated to the Republicans once the Democrats grew a set of balls and passed the civil rights act in 1964.

Patrick Cleburne

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Sure, he's allowed to be against it. Sure aren't people against blacks, and women and all sorts of things?

As a non-left leaning liberal Republican, I'm well aware of that. I don't particularly care whether they get their views from their own interpretation of the Bible, from Grimm's Fairytales, or any other collection of fairy stories as long as they don't denigrate other people.

And thank goodness the Ku Klux Klan is doing the same in the USA, with the same book of fairy stories in their hands.

Well he just did and what can you do about it? Face up to it, he give a view which many people have and express. You might not like it but he is entitled to air it and nothing can change that.

So - Well done to a man who equated homosexuality with having sex with animals? You champion such rhetoric? It may not harm the Unionist cause - but it does harm the cause of society, which I'm afraid is far more important than national politics.

I said he is entitled to that view point. That is all. It isn't a crime to hold such views because if it was, no one would air such views in public which is not the case.

Monty Burnz

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Well he just did and what can you do about it? Face up to it, he give a view which many people have and express. You might not like it but he is entitled to air it and nothing can change that.

Well actually you can do something to change it - hate speech can be prosecuted in the UK, and as I understand it he lives in the UK, no? We'll see how smart he is when the CPS are knocking on his door.

Many people express hatred for Jews and black people and Unionists too - it doesn't make it right, does it?

BluntGuy

dlofnep wrote: »

He can air his views if he likes - and I can, and will challenge said views.

Well said. The absolute worst thing we can do is passively accept homophobic rubbish as a legitimate viewpoint. It's a viewpoint, it is entitled to be aired, but it has no legitimacy and needs to be denigrated and ridiculed as much as possible.

efb

I wonder is he as virtuous as Iris the Virus?

Patrick Cleburne

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well actually you can do something to change it - hate speech can be prosecuted in the UK, and as I understand it he lives in the UK, no? We'll see how smart he is when the CPS are knocking on his door.

Many people express hatred for Jews and black people and Unionists too - it doesn't make it right, does it?

And yet what gets done about it? Nothing. You know it and I know it, he give a view which is held by a hell of a lot of people in society and you know he won't get prosecuted.

I would be very surprised if he was anyway.

Section 74 and Schedule 16 came into force on 23 March 2010. However, only days later (12 April) Cumbria Police chose to ignore the Waddington Amendment when they arrested and charged street preacher Dale Mcalpine for telling a gay PCSO that according to the Bible homosexuality was a sin. When Mcalpine pointed out that the arrest was unlawful (citing Paragraph 14 of Schedule 16, though wrongly attributing it to Lord Carey) the arresting officer refused to listen. Charges were eventually dropped and the police made a formal apology

Well I suppose that answers that.

Monty Burnz

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

And yet what gets done about it? Nothing. You know it and I know it, he give a view which is held by a hell of a lot of people in society and you know he won't get prosecuted.

I would be very surprised if he was anyway.

This is brilliant - your defence for homophobic hate-mongering is 'a lot of people do it'. Superb defence. I guess that works for child abusers too?

"Well your honour, a hell of a lot of us do this stuff."

"Really? Case dismissed!"

Patrick Cleburne

Monty Burnz wrote: »

This is brilliant - your defence for homophobic hate-mongering is 'a lot of people do it'. Superb defence. I guess that works for child abusers too?

"Well your honour, a hell of a lot of us do this stuff."

"Really? Case dismissed!"

I didn't defend what he was saying, I said he is entitled to express such views. Perhaps you should read the posts properly.

It was you who brought prosecution into it but we know that won't happen. If that was the case, then hundreds of preachers up and down the country would be in trouble every day.

Monty Burnz

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

I didn't defend what he was saying, I said he is entitled to express such views. Perhaps you should read the posts properly.

Yes, he's entitled to express his views, and we are entitled to point out that he is talking stone-age poppycock. Then you turn up and complain that we are criticising him...where is our freedom of speech?

telly_lover

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Pretty much, there is a section of religious unionism which is quite comparable to the civil rights / gay rights bashing republicans in the US.

Having said that, I much prefer to have this man laughed at for his outdated views then having anti-gay opposition that is encountered in many parts of catholic Africa or Catholic Eastern Europe where homosexuals are physically and not just verbally under attack. Orthodox Russians and Greeks ain't too fond of gay people either. Either are the Muslim countries come to think of it.

The man's views are crazy but at least in Ireland, the UK and America, there is some progression and opposition is mainly verbal and the standards of equality for all has a chance. We are decades above the standards of much of the world and that should continue and for every old fashioned religious nut who appears on radio, that will benefit not his views but the views of equality for all as he is shown as a loser and bigot.

its more than that , ulster scots were the cornerstone of the social conservative wing of the republican party back in the day and still are to a large degree

Patrick Cleburne

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yes, he's entitled to express his views, and we are entitled to point out that he is talking stone-age poppycock. Then you turn up and complain that we are criticising him...where is our freedom of speech?

Complain away Monty, it won't make much difference but you are entitled to complain. I just hope people understand he is entitled to hold such views, as are you in disagreeing with him.

telly_lover

whitelines wrote: »

I'm afraid that it was The Democrats that held sway in Dixie until relatively recently...

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

i wouldnt go that far , the democrats used to be a significant force in the south