Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

eastwest · 28-08-2017 7:17pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Well it's not like it'll ever become a railway with or without the motorway.

Discussion will continue about the possible Greenway though?

I believe that the rail lobby, which has long ago lost the argument about building a railway, has become a defacto anti-greenway lobby.
So, even after the railway dream has been put to bed firmly with the opening of the motorway, the anti greenway campaign will carry on.
Like all good feuds, the origins will have been long lost but the fight will continue.

Taytosnax · 28-08-2017 7:28pm

eastwest wrote: »

I believe that the rail lobby, which has long ago lost the argument about building a railway, has become a defacto anti-greenway lobby.
So, even after the rail is due has been put to be firmly with the opening of the motorway, the anti greenway campaign will carry on.
Like all good feuds, the origins will have been long lost but the fight will continue.

As usual you are making a statement that is not backed up with fact, other than your opinion. I would love to see an argument from you based on facts rather than your own opinions.

Jamie2k9 · 28-08-2017 8:32pm

You know the motorway is opening soon......

TD slams ‘misinformation’ over Western Rail Corridor

http://connachttribune.ie/galway-td-slams-misinformation-over-western-rail-corridor-101/

Mayo Co. Council Cathaoirleach calls for restoration of Mayo-Galway rail link – Aug 2017

http://www.claremorrischamber.ie/2017/08/mayo-co-council-cathaoirleach-calls-for-restoration-of-mayo-galway-rail-link-aug-2017/

marno21 · 28-08-2017 11:05pm

Freight services. Ok mate.

Perhaps the only freight being carried on the line will be the clearly vast quantity of whatever he is smoking.

westtip · 28-08-2017 11:44pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

You know the motorway is opening soon......

http://connachttribune.ie/galway-td-slams-misinformation-over-western-rail-corridor-101/

http://www.claremorrischamber.ie/2017/08/mayo-co-council-cathaoirleach-calls-for-restoration-of-mayo-galway-rail-link-aug-2017/

What that particular TD is preparing the way for is when the decision is finally announced that the so called WRC is not going to be built north of Athenry, he can blame it on the folks who talked the railway down, with an accusing pointed finger "its all their fault". Of course this is total bull**** but if he is being advised properly he will need an exit strategy so he can defer the blame on others.

eastwest · 28-08-2017 11:48pm

westtip wrote: »

What that particular TD is preparing the way for is when the decision is finally announced that the so called WRC is not going to be built north of Athenry, he can blame it on the folks who talked the railway down, with an accusing pointed finger "its all their fault". Of course this is total bull**** but if he is being advised properly he will need an exit strategy so he can defer the blame on others.

As long as he can keep blocking the greenway, he can keep spouting nonsense about trains. And if he's clever about the imaginary greenway, he can be all things to all men while delivering nothing for Tuam and Athenry.

eastwest · 29-08-2017 6:57am

So, does anyone still think it will be extended?

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-rail-earmarks-four-routes-for-axe-as-it-warns-pay-rise-will-push-it-towards-insolvency-36079194.html

Del.Monte · 29-08-2017 7:50am

Shane "knows nothing about railways" Coleman about to spout his usual ill informed, anti-rail guff on Newstalk now.

Or is he? Perhaps he will go to his default position of reading out listeners texts on the subject.

It's still coming - latest quote from the knowledgeable one.

"Is it time to rethink our train system?" :rolleyes:

Oh, it's one clueless railway expert talking to another - Barry Kenny.

Then he let's Kenny go before Mattie McGrath comes on just in case he would ask awkward questions.

Markcheese · 29-08-2017 8:35am

Does shane Coleman need to know anything about railways? He knows about how politics works in this country!
. Barry Kenny comes on to say what he wants... He knows he won't get that...it's kite flying, There's no way they'll shut Ennis athenry, it's too recent (but bringing it up also keeps a certain Galway TD off balance) .. Limerick jct to ballybrophey is the sacrificial lamb, and the other 2 who knows.
. . Would shutting those lines actually save much anyway? Can the staff or equipment be easily redeployed to make a a difference elsewhere on the system,?

eastwest · 29-08-2017 8:39am

Del.Monte wrote: »

Shane "knows nothing about railways" Coleman about to spout his usual ill informed, anti-rail guff on Newstalk now.

Or is he? Perhaps he will go to his default position of reading out listeners texts on the subject.

It's still coming - latest quote from the knowledgeable one.

"Is it time to rethink our train system?" :rolleyes:

Oh, it's one clueless railway expert talking to another - Barry Kenny.

Then he let's Kenny go before Mattie McGrath comes on just in case he would ask awkward questions.

You don't need to be an expert on anything to know that subsidies per passenger journey of the order highlighted by Irish rail make no sense.
We pay to subsidise public transport because it is logical.to do so, but this subsidy should be used to best effect, and to assist with appropriate transport solutions. The four lines earmarked for closure do not comprise appropriate solutions by any stretch of the imagination.

eastwest · 29-08-2017 8:44am

Markcheese wrote: »

Does shane Coleman need to know anything about railways? He knows about how politics works in this country!
. Barry Kenny comes on to say what he wants... He knows he won't get that...it's kite flying, There's no way they'll shut Ennis athenry, it's too recent (but bringing it up also keeps a certain Galway TD off balance) .. Limerick jct to ballybrophey is the sacrificial lamb, and the other 2 who knows.
. . Would shutting those lines actually save much anyway? Can the staff or equipment be easily redeployed to make a a difference elsewhere on the system,?

I agree, they won't close ennis athenry, not yet anyway. And they shouldn't at this stage; they should wait and see if numbers drop when the motorway opens and bus services bed in on the new Road.
If numbers don't fall.off at that stage there is probably a justification for retaining the services on this route that are most used and dropping the others. However it is very clear that anyone who thinks that north of Athenry is still on the cards is hopelessly deluded.

Del.Monte · 29-08-2017 10:16am

eastwest wrote: »

You don't need to be an expert on anything to know that subsidies per passenger journey of the order highlighted by Irish rail make no sense.
We pay to subsidise public transport because it is logical.to do so, but this subsidy should be used to best effect, and to assist with appropriate transport solutions. The four lines earmarked for closure do not comprise appropriate solutions by any stretch of the imagination.

You need to be some sort of a serious journalist on top of your brief to ask probing questions - Coleman has proved time and again that he is a lazy hack both on the radio and in print.

That other always available well known rail 'expert' Sean Barrett on with PK now.

McAlban · 29-08-2017 10:47am

Like I've said before; Mayo and Galway CC have Greenways in their development plans that are delayed/over budget/blocked by Nimbys; The same is true of the Great Southern Rail Trail and Farranfore to Valentia Greenway.; These would be prioritised over any "potential" WRC Greenway. Railway Economics and Greenway Economics are just Economics, No Money, No Investment.

EuroVelo1 (Along the wild Atlantic Way) and EuroVelo2 (Galway to Dublin) are the only shows in town.

Facebook groups with likes are a poor measure of General support. IT Seems to me the People of Tuam would welcome anything that sounds like investment in their area. Railway, Greenway, Industrial etc. and who can blame them.

Now that they will have easy access to the Motorway network it does mean the railway is less likely to be re-instated. Quite frankly we can't rely on The NBRU Irish Rail not to sabotage it anyway on the merry go round that passes for industrial relations in this country.

There is a huge amount of rhetoric and down-right propaganda spewed out on this thread. Mostly by the Greenway side of late, regurgitating the downright cr*p spewed out by those with vested interests.

The most likely outcome of Athenry to Claremorris and further north is that nothing will be done. (no Matter what Railway, or Greenway Campaigners Say)

eastwest · 29-08-2017 11:29am

McAlban wrote: »

Like I've said before; Mayo and Galway CC have Greenways in their development plans that are delayed/over budget/blocked by Nimbys; The same is true of the Great Southern Rail Trail and Farranfore to Valentia Greenway.; These would be prioritised over any "potential" WRC Greenway. Railway Economics and Greenway Economics are just Economics, No Money, No Investment.

EuroVelo1 (Along the wild Atlantic Way) and EuroVelo2 (Galway to Dublin) are the only shows in town.

Facebook groups with likes are a poor measure of General support. IT Seems to me the People of Tuam would welcome anything that sounds like investment in their area. Railway, Greenway, Industrial etc. and who can blame them.

Now that they will have easy access to the Motorway network it does mean the railway is less likely to be re-instated. Quite frankly we can't rely on The NBRU Irish Rail not to sabotage it anyway on the merry go round that passes for industrial relations in this country.

There is a huge amount of rhetoric and down-right propaganda spewed out on this thread. Mostly by the Greenway side of late, regurgitating the downright cr*p spewed out by those with vested interests.

The most likely outcome of Athenry to Claremorris and further north is that nothing will be done. (no Matter what Railway, or Greenway Campaigners Say)

Unfortunately for logic, that's probably a good assessment of the situation. The outcome that best suits politicians is to to make sure that nothing gets done. That way, while nobody will be happy, nobody will.be upset either.

westtip · 29-08-2017 1:24pm

McAlban wrote: »

Facebook groups with likes are a poor measure of General support. IT Seems to me the People of Tuam would welcome anything that sounds like investment in their area. Railway, Greenway, Industrial etc. and who can blame them.

True to a certain extent, but social media is a new barometer of opinion, and in any event over 500 real people have forked out money to become members of Sligo Greenway Co-op and over 600 people took to the streets of Tuam recently asking for a Greenway and over 300 people in the Kiltimagh area recently signed a petition in hard copy (not a simple click like) asking for a greenway and nearly 300 real submissions went into Mayo coco asking for a greenway.

The greenway campaign may have started in social media on facebook but is actually a lot more "real" than you might imagine in representing general support.

JCX BXC · 29-08-2017 1:39pm

The assertion that Ennis-Athenry will be chopped is quite funny.

If we are lucky, Limerick to Ballybrophy will be gone and that should help cover a few losses.

Del.Monte · 29-08-2017 1:41pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

The assertion that Ennis-Athenry will be chopped is quite funny.

If we are lucky, Limerick to Ballybrophy will be gone and that should help cover a few losses.

So Limerick/Ballybrophy goes - what would you like to rip-up next time CIE reaches the abyss.?

JCX BXC · 29-08-2017 1:45pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

So Limerick/Ballybrophy goes - what would you like to rip-up next time CIE reaches the abyss.?

No lines that are viable, the Limerick to Ballybrophy is wholly unviable.

what_traffic · 29-08-2017 1:57pm

The most likely outcome of Athenry to Claremorris and further north is that nothing will be done. (no Matter what Railway, or Greenway Campaigners Say)

Not based on this News Story.

Galway Junior Minister says Athenry-Ennis rail route may not be viable
http://connachttribune.ie/galway-junior-minister-says-athenry-ennis-rail-route-may-not-be-viable/
"
[font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Galway East Minister of State, Ciaran Cannon says, a greenway might be a better opportunity for the Ennis to Athenry rail line.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]"[/font]

end of the road · 29-08-2017 2:11pm

eastwest wrote: »

You don't need to be an expert on anything to know that subsidies per passenger journey of the order highlighted by Irish rail make no sense.

indeed, but not in the way you think. they don't make sense because irish rail are untrustworthy and have a history of contempt toards certain lines, funnily enough the 4 proposed CIE also have a history of over-inflating costs and doing work to bring those costs up when they want to shut lines.
there is absolutely no reason for gorey rosslare to shut, it's decently used, i know as i've been using it for over 2 decades now. ballybroaphy is a gonner, we knew that years ago, a proper country wouldn't have allowed it to rot either closing it decades ago or investing in it. limerick junction to waterford can be brought back from the brink (won't happen)

eastwest wrote: »

We pay to subsidise public transport because it is logical.to do so, but this subsidy should be used to best effect, and to assist with appropriate transport solutions.

that is all ready being done for 2 of those lines, hence they have a train service.

eastwest wrote: »

The four lines earmarked for closure do not comprise appropriate solutions by any stretch of the imagination.

rosslare goarey at least comprises appropriate solutions by any stretch of the imagination, hence it has a train service and the users of the train service won't be changing over to services that don't meet their needs, which the train currently does.

Del.Monte · 29-08-2017 2:25pm

There's been a serious amount of work along the DSE section south of Rathdrum in the last couple of years - track, lineside fencing, tree felling, culvert work and flood protection - a sure sign that closure is on the cards.

McAlban · 29-08-2017 2:56pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Galway East Minister of State, Ciaran Cannon says, a greenway might be a better opportunity for the Ennis to Athenry rail line.

As others have said in this thread, it's politics, if it doesn't happen, they can point the finger at opposition to the Greenway and vice versa.

29-08-2017 5:48pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

The assertion that Ennis-Athenry will be chopped is quite funny.

If we are lucky, Limerick to Ballybrophy will be gone and that should help cover a few losses.

Good thing they don't evaluate roads the same way that they do railways, if they did, there are quite a few kilometres of road around here that would have been abandoned decades ago!
The costs of maintenance far exceeding any economic value of the traffic on them.

end of the road · 29-08-2017 5:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Good thing they don't evaluate roads the same way that they do railways, if they did, there are quite a few kilometres of road around here that would have been abandoned decades ago!
The costs of maintenance far exceeding any economic value of the traffic on them.

indeed. no expence spared when it comes to mohherways to nowhere begorra but nothing for local roads and the railway will get a few crums grudgingly.

bk · 29-08-2017 6:02pm

end of the road wrote: »

indeed. no expence spared when it comes to mohherways to nowhere begorra but nothing for local roads and the railway will get a few crums grudgingly.

Shrug, until a rail line runs up to the front door of every home, that is just the reality.

serfboard · 29-08-2017 6:09pm

end of the road wrote: »

no expence spared when it comes to mohherways to nowhere

Where are these motorways to nowhere?

hytrogen · 29-08-2017 8:21pm

serfboard wrote:

Where are these motorways to nowhere?

Killarney from Dublin and Rosslare. Again fuelled by politics. Yeah we needed motorways to Limerick and Cork but they intended on continuing the motorways as a circuit to Killarney..

marno21 · 29-08-2017 9:03pm

hytrogen wrote: »

Killarney from Dublin and Rosslare. Again fuelled by politics. Yeah we needed motorways to Limerick and Cork but they intended on continuing the motorways as a circuit to Killarney..

There's a motorway to Killarney?

This is news to me, can you show it to me on a map by any chance?

Grandeeod · 29-08-2017 9:27pm

end of the road wrote: »

indeed. no expence spared when it comes to mohherways to nowhere begorra but nothing for local roads and the railway will get a few crums grudgingly.

What an utterly stupid post. First of all, there are no MOTORWAYS (I personally dislike your "stage Irish" language) to nowhere. The motorway building programme in this country was perhaps the best economic future proofing thing ever. While not as busy as they are built for and still commanding lots of money by way of toll operator "subventions", they have made Ireland smaller and offered faster/safer public and private transport options. Local roads are improving all the time, unless you are talking about a laneway up to 4 bungalows that also demand electricity, sewerage and broadband. Different argument. As for the railway. Step back. Leave your issues behind you. Look at it compared to 20 years ago. Its far more modern, safer and to some extent faster. There are major operational issues, but the massive investment in railways over the last 15 years has transformed them.

I think you need to get out more, because your opinions often belie reality.

hytrogen · 29-08-2017 9:35pm

marno21 wrote:

There's a motorway to Killarney?
This is news to me, can you show it to me on a map by any chance?

Re read that post with less sarcastic optimism and a bit more informed criticism, otherwise hand me that greenway crayon everyone's holding here..

Muckyboots · 29-08-2017 10:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Good thing they don't evaluate roads the same way that they do railways, if they did, there are quite a few kilometres of road around here that would have been abandoned decades ago!
The costs of maintenance far exceeding any economic value of the traffic on them.

There are quite a few kilometers of roads that have been abandonded for decades and some even up in the big shmoke, but nobody is being gang whipped into running a loss making service on them for the pleasure of false prophets.

Lucan to Castleknock + most of the roads around Ballyfermot and Kylemore.... before you ask.

Del.Monte · 29-08-2017 10:36pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

What an utterly stupid post. First of all, there are no MOTORWAYS (I personally dislike your "stage Irish" language) to nowhere. The motorway building programme in this country was perhaps the best economic future proofing thing ever. While not as busy as they are built for and still commanding lots of money by way of toll operator "subventions", they have made Ireland smaller and offered faster/safer public and private transport options. Local roads are improving all the time, unless you are talking about a laneway up to 4 bungalows that also demand electricity, sewerage and broadband. Different argument. As for the railway. Step back. Leave your issues behind you. Look at it compared to 20 years ago. Its far more modern, safer and to some extent faster. There are major operational issues, but the massive investment in railways over the last 15 years has transformed them.

I think you need to get out more, because your opinions often belie reality.

That's a pile of crap and you know it. CIE have had millions thrown at them over the last thirty years and what's to show. No freight worth a damn, closures and abandonments (Rosslare/Waterford the WRC, Mullingar/Athlone), trains in many cases slower than they were in the 1990's, ICR tin cans instead of decent loco hauled stock, Malahide, sell-off of strategic assets such as rail yards, demolition of buildings on a scale akin to the German retreat from Moscow, scrapping of perfectly good Mk.III stock.... Anything good that has happened - Midleton, Phoenix Park Tunnel, WRC Phase.1. has been forced upon them.

I'm outta here for now lest we fall out.

westtip · 29-08-2017 11:23pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

The assertion that Ennis-Athenry will be chopped is quite funny.

If we are lucky, Limerick to Ballybrophy will be gone and that should help cover a few losses.

I agree it is unlikely a line open six years ago will be given the chop but......

The fact that the possibility of closing Ennis-Athenry has even entered mainstream political media debate is hardly an endorsement for the idea of extending north of Athenry, This is what West on Track need to grasp, only 6 years after their victorious reopening of Ennis Athenry the media is talking about it potentially closing, they (West on Track) are on the defensive explaining numbers, saying things like the Ennis Athenry usage numbers are not the true numbers using the so called Western Rail Corridor - wrong because to travel Limerick Galway you have to travel Ennis Athenry, so the numbers using Ennis Athenry are the true "corridor" numbers. It is really quite sad.

The grounds for any support for the rest of the big project, are gone the likelihood of it happening is zero. Its over. Kapput, Finito.

end of the road · 30-08-2017 12:04am

westtip wrote: »

they (West on Track) are on the defensive explaining numbers, saying things like the Ennis Athenry usage numbers are not the true numbers using the so called Western Rail Corridor - wrong because to travel Limerick Galway you have to travel Ennis Athenry, so the numbers using Ennis Athenry are the true "corridor" numbers. It is really quite sad.

through galway limerick usage is decent from what i have heard. no links availible though. now the couple of stations on that stretch could probably go but the question is whether their closure would bring any actual time saving or even cost saving as they must be very basic?

JCX BXC · 30-08-2017 12:13am

Ardrahan I would definitely flag for closure, could knock 3-4 minutes off the service if done right. I think Craughwell and Gort are just about okay, maybe some advertising of the service wouldn't go astray.

When the line was being built it's a pity they didn't alter it a bit so that it would come in to the east of Athenry and negate the need for a lengthy switching of ends for the driver. As far as I can see there's no real obstacles in the way.

Constant publicity about the line possibly closing won't do it any favours whatsoever. It won't close and I think an acknowledgement of that would help.

eastwest · 30-08-2017 8:41am

JCX BXC wrote: »

Ardrahan I would definitely flag for closure, could knock 3-4 minutes off the service if done right. I think Craughwell and Gort are just about okay, maybe some advertising of the service wouldn't go astray.

When the line was being built it's a pity they didn't alter it a bit so that it would come in to the east of Athenry and negate the need for a lengthy switching of ends for the driver. As far as I can see there's no real obstacles in the way.

Constant publicity about the line possibly closing won't do it any favours whatsoever. It won't close and I think an acknowledgement of that would help.

Doesn't the 'just about ok' description of Gort speak volumes though? The WRC was supposed to be a panacea for all the ills of the towns along the corridor, but even towns like Gort haven't become rich on the back of the railroad.
What rail campaigners fail to grasp is that this isn't the wild west; the railway isn't the key to unlocking riches and prosperity. Nowadays a decent motorway link, industrial broadband and local services sustained by an influx of outside money form tourism are the things that keep places alive and provide employment.
A slow train creaking its way through a town isn't a magic bullet, and (as in this case) it can sometimes suck up resources that could be better spent.

Muckyboots · 30-08-2017 9:24am

JCX BXC wrote: »

Constant publicity about the line possibly closing won't do it any favours whatsoever. It won't close and I think an acknowledgement of that would help.

If Irish Rail were using the Indo & national media to fly a kite yesterday as a mood tester, the so called pro-rail brigade didn't do themselves any favours. Hardly a whimper in return. Mattie McGrath on Newstalk was all over the shop and even Alan Kelly simply bounced the ball back to Sean Canney, who was nowhere to be seen or heard. The vox pop on the platform in Nenagh was pure comedy. This obvious shot across the bows of the NBRU might have more far reaching consequenses. WRC Phase 2 ?- You're having a laugh.

Del.Monte · 30-08-2017 12:18pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

If Irish Rail were using the Indo & national media to fly a kite yesterday as a mood tester, the so called pro-rail brigade didn't do themselves any favours. Hardly a whimper in return. Mattie McGrath on Newstalk was all over the shop and even Alan Kelly simply bounced the ball back to Sean Canney, who was nowhere to be seen or heard. The vox pop on the platform in Nenagh was pure comedy. This obvious shot across the bows of the NBRU might have more far reaching consequenses. WRC Phase 2 ?- You're having a laugh.

The "so called" pro-rail brigade don't get a look in on the national media and the fools (Barry Kenny, Alan Kelly and lazy vox pops) don't help while the always available anti-rail charlatans like Pat Kenny, Dr.Sean Barrett, Shane Coleman, Colm McCarthy are free to spout their ****e unchallenged. Needless to say, that useless prick Shane Ross (Minister for Stepaside Garda Station) kept his head down.

eastwest · 30-08-2017 1:13pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

The "so called" pro-rail brigade don't get a look in on the national media and the fools (Barry Kenny, Alan Kelly and lazy vox pops) don't help while the always available anti-rail charlatans like Pat Kenny, Dr.Sean Barrett, Shane Coleman, Colm McCarthy are free to spout their ****e unchallenged. Needless to say, that useless prick Shane Ross (Minister for Stepaside Garda Station) kept his head down.

Everyone's out of step except my Johnny.

BoatMad · 30-08-2017 1:38pm

Look at it compared to 20 years ago. Its far more modern, safer and to some extent faster. There are major operational issues, but the massive investment in railways over the last 15 years has transformed them.

the moniker " modern " doesnt actually mean anything

anyone that has travelled on loco hauled coaching stock, like Mk2 and Mk3 will tell you its a better experience, quieter , smoother etc . equally seat pitch now approaches airline standards ( low ) compared to historical position where it was more like a living room chair ( have you ever travelled in a compartment carriage for example )

No , modern rail travel is " brutal " , costs cut to the bone, minimal personnel , low service delivery ,matched by equally low customer expectation, rail speeds on average are still now, and often lower then steam days when rail maintenance standards were actually higher , service is poor and on train facilities a mere shadow of its former self

we are watching a mode of transport that is dying , not getting better

L1011 · 30-08-2017 1:50pm

If you think costs are high on lightly travelled sections using a DMU; you don't want to imagine what they were with loco hauled stock...

westtip · 30-08-2017 1:51pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Needless to say, that useless prick Shane Ross (Minister for Stepaside Garda Station) kept his head down.

He is going to have to dodge a few bullets on this one!:D The problem with Ross is he has allied himself with Canney, who is a diehard when it comes to WOT. He cannot get out of the rather stupid commitments he has given to Canney to stop the greenway, my guess is he is going to land himself in it for continuing to support the idea of stopping the greenway which is what Canney is now holding a gun to his head about.

BoatMad · 30-08-2017 1:55pm

L1011 wrote: »

If you think costs are high on lightly travelled sections using a DMU; you don't want to imagine what they were with loco hauled stock...

probably not much greater , CIEs main costs where in staff anyway ,

bk · 30-08-2017 2:10pm

BoatMad wrote: »

we are watching a mode of transport that is dying , not getting better

But rail is not dying!

Luas is rail, in the last 15 years it has added 34 million people a year being carried by rail. With the opening of LCC it may well be on the way to surpassing the number of passengers carried by IR in total. And just wait until you see how many people MN will carry if built.

Rail is going from strength to strength, almost twice as many people in Ireland are transported by rail then 20 years ago!

What we are seeing is the dying of Victorian lines meandering through rural Ireland, where it just can't compete with roads and instead a refocusing on what rail does best at in the modern world, urban mass transit.

Taytosnax · 30-08-2017 2:13pm

westtip wrote: »

He is going to have to dodge a few bullets on this one!:D The problem with Ross is he has allied himself with Canney, who is a diehard when it comes to WOT. He cannot get out of the rather stupid commitments he has given to Canney to stop the greenway, my guess is he is going to land himself in it for continuing to support the idea of stopping the greenway which is what Canney is now holding a gun to his head about.

You are claiming that Shane Ross has committed to stopping your Greenway proposals. Have you got a link to back that claim up?

L1011 · 30-08-2017 2:34pm

BoatMad wrote: »

probably not much greater , CIEs main costs where in staff anyway ,

It's vastly greater. Fuel and staff costs alone are near double before you get in to capacity - a hell of a lot more people fit on a commuter layout DMU than an equivalent length of loco hauled stock.

Operational flexibility is near non-existant unless you go push-pull in which case you're now using even more equipment

Loco haulage is suitable for high demand and freight; not low passenger demand. There is a reason it has been abandoned for that everywhere, on an ongoing basis for almost 100 years.

BoatMad · 30-08-2017 2:35pm

a hell of a lot more people fit on a commuter layout DMU than an equivalent length of loco hauled stock.

I was taking about intercity rather then commuter , I agree electric DMU is the way to go for journeys under 1 hour

L1011 · 30-08-2017 2:37pm

BoatMad wrote: »

I was taking about intercity rather then commuter , I agree electric DMU is the way to go for journeys under 1 hour

I was talking about lightly trafficked sections in general. There are plenty of journeys well over 2 hours here that could not justify loco haulage except in a spotters dreams.

The extra costs involved with loco haulage are not justifiable nearly all the time.

BoatMad · 30-08-2017 2:41pm

L1011 wrote: »

I was talking about lightly trafficked sections in general. There are plenty of journeys well over 2 hours here that could not justify loco haulage except in a spotters dreams.

The extra costs involved with loco haulage are not justifiable nearly all the time.

my argument is not really about loco hauled

its about the decline in carriage standards , the engine pulling the thing is of little relevance

L1011 · 30-08-2017 2:42pm

BoatMad wrote: »

my argument is not really about loco hauled

its about the decline in carriage standards , the engine pulling the thing is of little relevance

The two are intrinsically linked

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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